Well, rye flour lacks gluten...rye bread will always be dense unless there is a good quantity of white flour added. Pumpernickel is a heavy dense 100% rye bread.
You should be able to make any machine recipe by hand...

To answer the bread machine recipe question--

For run of the mill bread:

At first, I bought into the hype about needing 'bread machine recipes'. Decided that so long as you're using the machine to just mix/ knead and not to bake in, any recipe will work. The only thing you have to remember is to not forget to add the yeast! (That & wet ingredients in the bottom--to facilitate mixing. Yeast goes in last--to keep it from hydrating prematurely when you're delaying mixing the dough.) The only other part of the learning curve is getting the hydration right and, for that, you have to monitor the mixing & kneading. IMO, almost all bread machine 'fails' are due to one of those two things. The idea that you can plop the ingredients in the machine & set it and forget it is just wrong most of the time.

The only reason, IMO, that you might need a bread machine recipe is for the ingredient proportions being correctly sized for the machine IF you plan to bake the bread in the machine.

About the pumpernickel. I don't bake it so don't know. Maybe slightly more liquid and/ or longer proof. Generally one of the other will fix yeasted wheat loaves but I do know that rye flour is 'different'.

OK, I'll keep plugging at different recipes. LindaC, actually both of these recipes had some regular white flour in them, if they hadn't I probably wouldn't have been able to manipulate them at all. I have arthritis in my hands and even regular style bread gives me trouble, much less a stiffer dough. And yes, I know, I need to break out the big mixer and start using the dough hook, I've just always really enjoyed handling the bread by hand. Hubby likes pumpernickel but the ones we've always gotten at the store are getting so they are too soft and I know that isn't right. We occasionally get the one at the German store that's really dark, dense and grainy, wish I knew how to make that one.

As ci_lantro said: '...getting the hydration right and, for that, you have to monitor the mixing & kneading.'

I don't know about pumpernickel either, but I assume that your very stiff doughs were simply due to not enough liquid. Yes, the recipe gave amounts, but they were probably wrong for the bread machine too. You just needed more liquid and you would add it to the bread machine or incorporate it by hand as you or your parents did before you.

Others here have pointed out that hydration requirements change with other conditions. I am very happy that I have the second version of the Original bread machine, The DAK-Welbuilt with the annoying round loaf pan with the huge glass dome that allows one to see the dough condition at any time. Like most here, I don't bake in the machine so the pan shape is OK by me. What is important is that it starts right up rather than having some rest period for temperature control. This allows me to add extra liquid or flour immediately until I see ideal conditions.

I have no idea on those conditions for pumpernickel. If I were going to try some, I would read recipes until I found one that described the expected dough texture while kneading rather than just a list and order of ingredients.

Rye does have gluten, but you can also goose it by adding Vital Wheat Gluten. I agree that it sounds like you need more water. You might also try soaking. Add all the water but the amount you need to mix up the yeast to the dry ingredients (not including the yeast) and let it set, covered, for at least eight hours. The water will be absorbed, and the mix should soften up. Then mix the yeast with the reserved water and combine. You can also do a pre-ferment where you mix the yeast and a portion of water with some of the flour to start activating, while you're doing your soak. This will affect the rise time more.

Googling around, I found a bunch of recipes you might like to look at:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/142/real-pumpernickel-bread

http://www.abreadaday.com/westphalian-pumpernickel/

http://www.196flavors.com/germany-pumpernickel/

https://www.thebreadshebakes.com/2014/08/baking-traditional-real-german-pumpernickel-bread/

http://www.sourdoughlibrary.org/homemade-traditional-pumpernickel/

https://www.thespruce.com/rye-pumpernickel-with-sourdough-1446525

I also use recipes interchangeably and haven't found a recipe that doesn't work both in the bread machine and by hand, as I only use the machine for kneading and then shape and bake in the oven. Everything from Grandma's old Farmhouse White to cinnamon rolls to whole wheat and rye loaves, they all work fine both by hand and in the machine.

I agree that you need some more liquid/water in that hard to handle dough. I always check the machine and add more liquid if needed, I'd rather have a bit too much than not enough, I can always knead in a bit more flour if necessary.

As plllog mentioned, you can add vital wheat gluten to the rye loaves for a bit more "oomph", rye flour is lower in gluten than wheat flour is.

Bread is actually very forgiving, and I mess with it at whim. I want big holes I add more water, a dense loaf needs more flour, a tender loaf wants some milk and eggs, and I go by the way the dough "feels" more than anything. The only thing I've been unsuccessful at is a 100% whole wheat loaf with my own home ground flour. The results were consistent, they were all horrible. I finally just stopped, nothing helped that stuff and although I still grind wheat for flour, I use some of my own flour and some King Arthur flour for a passable loaf.

Annie

I have an old pumpernickel recipe from the 70's. It has rye, cornmeal, potatoes ect in it. Just about everything but the kitchen sink. Makes two round dense loaves that rise very little. I have doubled the yeast to try to get some rise out of it. Very good for toast!

Never made it in a bread machine. Really heavy sticky dough so I wonder if a bread machine would have the power to even mix,knead it properly? I make it by hand.

I too have a bread machine but seldom use it. Works great when I am really busy as I can use the machine to mix, knead and rise easily. Then I remove it and rise the second time in the bread pan or on the baking sheet depending on what I am making.

My bread machine stopped working on the bake portion as not heating properly. It is an old Regal that I have had for years. Can't complain as it sure

has seen a lot of use. These days I prefer to knead by hand.

I have made lots and lots of rye bread....and to ba able for it to "rise properly" it needs to be at least 60 or 70 % white bread flour.
But that dense pumpernickel is something different...no rise at all....no leavening.
Adding more liquid to a dough heavy in rye flour results only in a sticky dough.
I haver never made a true german style pumpernickel...but have 2 different rye breads I make....shout and I will post the recipes if youw ant.

I actually have a great rye bread recipe, it calls for white, rye and whole wheat flours, I got it out of the Southern Living cookbook. I made it in a German Rumtopf clay baker, a pain in the you know what to use but wow what a beautiful loaf of bread it makes.

spartanapples, I have a Zojirushi bread machine and I use it only to knead. I have carpal tunnel from years of computer research at work and just can't knead bread any more without pain. So, the machine does it for me.

It's a lot stronger than I am, that's for sure, and does a better job of kneading than I ever did, even when I was younger. I can't guarantee the efficiency of an older bread machine, of course, but the Zo handles dough like a work horse. Mine has made hundreds of batches of bread of all flavors and types.

Rita, that sounds a lot like the recipe I make, and mine calls for molasses too, makes a nice dark loaf and not too dense. Not grainy, though...

Annie

Annie, this one has molassas, too. I bet it's the same one.