What does "works better" mean? You mean more composting in a given time? A bit more insulation will always help, but I'm not convinced that it can help a lot.

I have not covered my pile in a long time. Snow makes a great cover in the winter and rain let's me mostly ignore it except for turning in the summer.

I don't cover..like the idea of rain filtering thru the debris..seems like a cover could make it smell..

It sounds like you have been composting for years, do you have enough room and existing compost to have separate piles or add new stuff to one side? What I am thinking is that if you take the cover off you will slow down the rate of decomposition but when you start using the compost it will be ideal if you can use the older compost thus giving the newer stuff enough time to adequately decompose. Also if you end up discovering that the newer stuff isn't decomposing fast enough, at that point you can throw the tarp back on. Presumably by then the weather will be warmer which will accelerate the decomposition.

I use a piece of old carpet. It insulates but allows a small amount of rain in. I find the slight weight also helps the heap decompose better by compressing it a little.

Thanks everyone....

Hi Annie,

I owned a house on an acre of good clay soil in Idaho. When I moved in I started saving the grass clippings in open piles. Eventually I moved the piles into 'hobo' compost bins made of 4'x4' wood pallets. As time went on I experimented with adding mowed leaves, kitchen scraps and everything else organic. I purchased thermometers to monitor temperatures. I tried various mixtures.

I now have a MacKissic Merry Mac 12p chipper/shredder and I build compost bins with pallets, loosely line the pallets with plastic, keep it loosely covered, and turn the pile when the spirit moves me. When it's broken down enough, I will usually sift the compost through a 1/2" square hardware cloth screen and allow that to sit and finish for a while.

I have a system that can make nice, unfinished compost in about a year. I have made many mistakes and tried a lot of ideas.

I recommend keeping compost loosely covered because it breaks down more quickly and completely.

I should probably start a thread about all the mistakes I've made. Lots of lessons there.

Paul

Hi Paul,

I am trying to understand a couple of things. What do you mean by "nice, unfinished compost"? My second question is are you saying that even covered it takes a year to make the stuff? If so that is a fair point and the part where I said to re-introduce the tarp if the newer stuff isn't decomposing fast enough may have been too optimistic. I am correct that it will accelerate the decomposition but I may have been presumptuous in assuming/implying that re-introducing the tarp will make up for lost time and he will have usable compost during the upcoming growing season. I guess we need to know where the OP lives because things decompose faster in warmer areas.

If the OP has the space and skill I think your 'hobo bin' set up may work for him with one bin containing usable compost and the other containing wip compost.

I'm in zone 9...Central Florida...average temperature ranges between 50 - 75 degrees and occasionally drops to the upper 30s at night..one of my piles is in a 3ft by 4.5 ft chicken wire with 1 inch openings...it's covered on top by a black plastic garbage bag weighted down by an old piece of carpet..the sides are totally uncovered...two other piles are the standard 3ft X 3ft cone shaped covered by tarps..

The idea of a weight on top to help compress the pile is a good one. Certainly if the pile has a lot of unshredded leaves, which will not compress well by themselves. But especially in a southern climate, I don't think a tarp is going to make much of a difference in thermal performance.

In Central Florida your average temperature ranges from 50-75F? When I spent some time in Orlando the average temperature in the summer was 85F and in the winter it was 60F. Those are balmy composting temperatures. You living on some undiscovered mountain in central Florida?

@daninthedirt..55 - 75 (mornings - highs) degrees are the current December / January temperatures...it's been as warm as 85 degrees last month (Dec 2016)...

@Paul...quite an eye opener...a couple years ago my first attempts at composting were frustrating to say the least...I just gave up and started to buy it by the truckloads...I started again only when I found a local horse farm that gives away manure...I'm encouraged by the results and information from experts on this site will propel me from learning to mastering...

The soil here in Central Florida is sandy and the local extension office recommends heavy doses of organic matter inputs primarily from compost. Got a lot of information here.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_MiLw1r4Rk

There is really no good reason to cover a compost pile with a tarp, unless that is the only means of controlling the moisture level of the pile. My compost bins, 4 x 4 x 4 made of cedar, are covered with a half sheet of T-111 siding just to aid in maintaining the moisture level in the mix. The reasons usually given for using a tarp, keep moisture in, retain heat, and prevent nutrient leaching comes from people that do not understand the composting process.

I would have to agree with your wife that the garish blue tarp needs to go.

kimmq is kimmsr

We have camo tarps up here in Canada. Woodland or green. Protecting compost from the elements has its place. Not all climates/weather needs it but it can be useful in some situations. I've used tarps many times when I was only doing a few dozen tons of material but once I got into the hundreds it wasn't practical. I've also used cardboard and even tin.

I live in zone 4 and cover my "cold" compost piles with a tarp to preclude a soggy mess come spring.

As Lloyd mentioned tarps come in variety of colors including camo. Check out Amazon .

Just remember that compost is it's own (permeable) cover. The outer few inches of the compost pile provide much better thermal insulation than a tarp would. So adding a tarp might just encourage warmth in the outer few inches, if that's important. It isn't to me.

Not completely clear why one would try to prevent the weather from moistening a pile. To the extent the pile is friable, aerated, and isn't matted down, the moisture shouldn't result in a soggy mess. A compost pile that never gets turned might end up matted down, however, and that would interfere with composting.

But again, it depends on what is in the pile. If the pile has a lot of unshredded leaves, a cover will help press it down and prevent wind from blowing the leaves away.

Thank you, Garrett for the clarification about your mean temperatures. You're just talking about winter. Not a mean over the year.

In a rainy climate, the cover might keep the pile from getting too wet and getting stinky and slimy.

In a dry climate, the tarp might prevent some drying. But it's easier to just plop a small sprinkler on top of the bin and water it slowly every couple of weeks than to keep removing the tarp to add more stuff.

So my bins are uncovered.

When the forecast was calling for several days of rain I covered it. Once I had a good moisture level I didn't want it to change. I also covered when I built a new pile. It kept moisture in and got everything nicely damp including the edges. I also used side tarps to prevent high winds from drying and/or cooling. There are lots of valid reasons.

Kinda off topic but we also built a shed for the finished compost. It seemed that people always wanted compost after a rain and that stuff gets heavy after a decent rain. No one wants dripping wet 'post.

For those new to this site, understand that Lloyd is a farmer and also built up a large commercial compost operation. Lots of respect from me for doing so much to improve our world's environment in many ways.

Southwest Idaho, the Boise area, is quite hot and very dry in the summer, so covering the pile helped maintain its moisture content.

I mentioned a book about composting;

Compost Utilization in Horticultural Cropping Systems, by Stoffella and Kahn

The chapter on 'Compost Quality Attributes, Measurements, and Variability' contains the relevant information about finished compost. Specifically, the book cites the research about techniques to measure phytotoxicity from ammonia, and short-chain organic acids; acetic, butyric, propionic, valeric.

I also have my own, crackpot ideas about why covering a pile will improve the process. Compost piles do need access to oxygen, but it's doubtful they need to have the 20% oxygen of the atmosphere. Covering a pile will also trap ammonia gasses along with water vapor. In my imagination, having organic material soaked in a slight ammonia/nitrate environment will only help speed the process and increase the final nitrogen content of the pile. (Bacteria need nitrogen.)

So my goal it to make a pile that is not too wet, not compacted, and can maintain its warmth.

Wow! Lots of information here...Well I'm going to sift a pile tomorrow and store the results. It's likely to have small woody material but it's predominantly the dark brown, fluffy stuff. I plan on taking Paul's advice and setting my "unfinished" compost aside to let the worms/fungi process the minute woody materials that remain. If I understand his advice correctly, the compost technically isn't ready until that happens. Central Florida has a year round planting season so I'll need a steady supply on hand at all times.

You can put anything which you deem not sufficiently broken down back into the next compost pile. It will break down faster like that than in a segregated heap of its own. You don't need to store it separately. This is easy to do if you have a row of 2 or 3 bins which you turn from one to the next as they break down. You can have a continuous production line going on, especially in a climate like yours. Once you have this process up and running the speed of composting becomes less important since you will have a heap becoming ready to use several times a year.

Garnett ... if you have more than one bin, just dump the stuff that's not quite ready enough into the bin that is being filled, as one or more of the layers.

I had a couple of items (a pine cone and an orange) that spend several years going from bin to bin, refusing to decompose. I finally tossed them into the shredder blades.

I appreciate the advice @lazy_gardens and @ floral_uk...

The unfinished woody materials in my sifted compost are tiny wood shavings/twigs and partially decomposed leaf fragments. I use an old milk crate as a sifter and the openings are approximately 3/4 inch wide. I can fill the average wheel barrow after 6 minutes of vigorous shaking. Using the other crate with th 1/2 inch openings takes about 15 minutes to fill the same wheel barrow.

If the pieces are really that 'tiny' I wouldn't even bother to sift them out. Unless you need very fine compost, for making a seed sowing mix for example. I use my compost on the vegetable garden and for mulch in mixed beds and I include far bigger pieces than that - I wouldn't even bother to remove 2 or 3 inch pieces. It seems like a lot of effort which isn't necessarily required. I just 'sieve' with the tines of my fork as I dig out the compost and put it in the barrow. Of course, everyone should do what they want but I sometimes think people are put off making compost because they are seeking perfection. Perfection requires a lot of effort and a lot of effort leads to giving up. Better to compost for a lifetime slightly roughly than for just a year or two perfectly imo;-)

I can verify that things in the South decompose more quickly, having done scavenging for walking sticks in New York and coastal Alabama--any prospective walking stick touching the ground in Alabama is generally rotten. Best stick I've ever found spent at least one winter on the ground in upstate NY.

That said, I don't understand the urge to cover the compost pile. I tried it in my Alabama pile and it stayed too dry. Water is needed to complete some of the redox chemistry that occurs in the pile and all of the organisms therein need the water. Even in wet climates, it is impossible to get the pile TOO wet. I once turned my pile in Alabama 2 days after 3 inches of rain fell and the core was only slightly moist and steaming (only inputs to my piles are yard wastes). I can also state that, with regular rain, occasional soaking from the hose, and weekly or biweekly hand turning, I had rich, black, crusty compost in about 3 months.

Keep in mind that the average bacterium will reproduce every 20 minutes under optimal conditions, meaning that a single bacterium can turn into 6 billion in about 11 hours, so turning an active pile weekly shouldn't disrupt it. This is only helped by the free influx of water from the sky.

"it is impossible to get the pile TOO wet."

Define too wet please.

My piles are wood chips, green leaves (mostly those shredded when the wood is chipped,) and sometimes green grass clippings. I try to get the chips after the trees leaf out, so the weather is fairly warm. When the piles are first made, I don't cover - as wood chips drain easily. However, once the chips start to cool off (they steam nicely when the piles are new,) I try to cover them... managing the covers as the weather demands. Too much rain... no good. Too little rain... no good. Goldilock's zone... just right!

The presumption seems to be that all rainwater that lands on the pile stays in the pile. It doesn't. For a well mixed and unmatted pile, extra water will simply drain away. I put a sprinkler on my pile and, when the pile is uniformly moistened, I just get a puddle around the base. The pile doesn't get soggier and soggier. But yes, for a poorly maintained pile, I suppose you can get puddles inside the pile, and that's not a constructive thing.

I should add that too much water is when there is liquid water in the pile. If there is liquid water, aeration will be compromised. Can't do aerobic degradation very well under water.

I suppose if you're composting in a container, without proper drainage, you can end up with a mixture of organics and leachate. Compost soup.

I do respect many of the posters here that said they never cover their pile - if there is no rain then there is no need.

If it rains where you compost cover it to control the moisture but avoiding a tarp can help to keep the airflowing which is needed by the compost. Use a cover that won't smother your pile - it needs air as in O2.

I do believe the reason to cover a pile is to maintain an even moisture level - there is no need to retain heat IMO. Keep the compost aerated and avoiding to much moisture will keep the heat as long as there is adequate organic matter.

If the wife objects to a tarp then build another type of cover esp if you have a structure like a bin. Even a wire bin can have a cover if you just add some posts (legs) for the cover to rest on.

I also think that laying any weight to compress a compost pile if counter-productive as it will displace air which is needed for the pile to decompose in a timely fashion.

Keep in mind you can do all things wrong and still come out with compost - it just takes longer. Compost only stinks when things are wrong.

I'm trying to visualize what a pile that gets rained freely on looks like to you. Is there liquid water in puddles on the pile? Is the pile actually soggy, such that you lift up a piece and it drips? I've never ever seen that, and it can rain real hard real fast around here. Just not completely clear what condition a cover is supposed to avoid. A pile is well enough insulated that a few inches below the surface in a well shredded mix simply isn't going to dry out easily. A good pile makes its own cover. Again, I think an added cover may be justified if your pile isn't well maintained. For example, if it is packed and drains poorly, and or has poorly shredded material that ventilates, and thereby cools, too easily.

< I've never ever seen that,>

Then stop worrying about things that don't happen to you, It's a sign of OCD. But if you still insist you "want to see" then it's time for a road trip.

That's why I'm not worried about sopping wet compost, because I've never ever seen that. Chill, man. There are people worried about sopping wet compost, and I'm just asking why. Lloyd asked a good question -- what is "too wet"? I suggested what that probably meant, and am just pointing out that at least to me, it doesn't happen, which is why I don't cover my piles. I'm asking how it seems to happen to others.

"Lloyd asked a good question -- what is "too wet"?"

Lloyd knows what too wet is (and has seen compost too wet). Lloyd wanted to know what the person that said, "it is impossible to get the pile TOO wet", uses as their definition.

Well then, maybe he can tell the rest of us what "too wet" is to him. As I said, I've never seen a pile get too wet as I define it, and I invite a description of "too wetness" that people can use to judge their own piles. I asked specific questions.

I should add that in many parts of the country, compost piles are simply inaccessible in the winter because of snowpack. Those piles probably won't get turned and will end up getting matted and soggy. They won't drain well. So probably I'm just lucky that I'm able to properly maintain my piles throughout the year. It may be that in those parts of the country, where compost pile maintenance is hard, covers are useful. Down here they are not.

Here is a helpful site.

Composting for Dummies

To the one who said "Chill" it seems you can't tell when someone is
excited or if it is you who is over excited and keeps asking the same
question over and over.I'll say this - You will know too wet when
you see it.

IF you haven't yet seen it there is no reason to worry
about it - "Chill".

"You will know too wet when you see it."

More likely smell it. :-)

+1

Smell may help some - others not so much.

To the one who was making accusations about OCD, over-excitedness, and road trips, it seems you can't tell that you're in a community forum. I won't stoop that low.

I certainly wasn't asking the same question over and over. The question was whether it was necessary to cover a compost pile, and under what circumstances that would be necessary.

"You will know too wet when you see it" is an unconstructive comment to those who are looking for advice. It's telling people that they shouldn't even be asking. Again, this is a community forum, where people ask questions. Get used to it.

In many places people are told not to let their compost pile get too wet, with no explanation. Again, I suggested that a pile that is too wet is one with liquid water in it. That inhibits aerobic bacterial action. As in, you squeeze it and a stream comes out. Lloyd's reference is smartly specifc about that. For a properly maintained pile, that should never happen. The pile should drain freely. But as I said, there are many parts of the country that sometimes simply don't permit proper maintenance of a pile. If that's incorrect, please weigh in.

"I suggested that a pile that is too wet is one with liquid water in it. "

Well, if that is your definition then I suspect an awful lot of compost piles are too wet.

"For a properly maintained pile, that should never happen."

Bull feathers. Compost is revered for its water retaining capability.

"The pile should drain freely. "

Some of us do not want the pile to drain freely. We do not want leachate. We'd like the piles to stay within the optimum moisture range. Hence the covering.

You seem to challenge everything whether it affects you or not. Seems
to be just for the sake of argument. Count how many posts you have in
this thread alone = 9 of 47. Remember < this is a community forum>

My reply was to you <It's telling people that they shouldn't even be asking.> The OP never asked that question that I saw.

afaik the OPs questions were <Is there another option for covering the pile? Can I use a thick layer of leaves instead without losing effectiveness?>

The too wet questions came from you repeatedly. Maybe you need your own thread?

here ya go..

<I do believe the reason to cover a pile is to maintain an even moisture level - there is no need to retain heat IMO.>

Wow, this "discussion" is kind of going off the rails.

What I said, Lloyd, was that "As in, you squeeze it and a stream comes out." That's what your "Composting for Dummies" reference smartly said. I suspect a lot of compost piles are thus not too wet. Mine sure aren't.

Compost is indeed revered for it's water retaining capability. What we're talking about is squeezing a stream of water out of it. No, it isn't revered for that.

The pile should drain freely specifically in order to avoid getting piles that are so wet that you can squeeze liquid out of them. We're not talking about wanting leachate. We're talking about allowing aerobic decomposition.

It occurs to me that snowpack is probably important in this regard. That is, snowpack on a compost pile will (1) compress the pile and make it less permeable, (2)make the pile less accessible for proper turning and ventilation, and (3) dump a load of water on the compressed and impermeable pile. That being the case, I guess I would say that if you live where you get a lot of snow in the winter, yes, it probably would be smart to cover the pile then. That doesn't apply to me, and that's probably why I've never seen the need for it.

Gumby, I most certainly didn't first bring up the "too wet" questions. Go back and read. Lots of discussion about compost wetness. I was just trying to get some information on the table. The only thing I'm challenging here is your comprehension. I have a bunch of posts here because I find this an interesting topic. My apologies. The title of the OPs post was

"Covering a compost pile...is the tarp really necessary?"

That's precisely what we're talking about.

But I'll bow out and leave everyone else to figure it out.

"We're not talking about wanting leachate."

If you are stating unequivocally that piles should drain freely then you are absolutely saying you want leachate. Water draining from an active compost pile is leachate.

Not sure where snow came into any of this conversation. I sure didn't mention it.

<Wow, this "discussion" is kind of going off the rails.> +1

Exactly what I was pointing out.

<The only thing I'm challenging here is your comprehension. I have a
bunch of posts here because I find this an interesting topic. My
apologies. The title of the OPs post was

"Covering a compost pile...is the tarp really necessary?"

That's precisely what we're talking about.

But I'll bow out and leave everyone else to figure it out.>

WOW

<Remember < this is a community forum>>

I'll second the wow. That post that I made about "too wet" was my first post on this forum--Lloyd and Gumby sure know how to make a guy feel welcome. Didn't realize that you two would do everything you could to turn this into a fight, which is extremely ironic in a forum like this.

"Too wet" is in the eye of the beholder. Some folks mentioned "soggy", which to me means dripping wet throughout. For me, though, "too wet" is "all the good stuff--microbes, nutrients, etc.--washed away". That's really only possible in a flood. I think the desire to have a perfect water balance--where there is no leachate--is nonsensical. Who cares if there's a little leachate? And if you do, why?

Forget it, don't answer. It's immaterial at this point.

I think that, at the end of the day, the discussion did achieve what the OP wanted. I think we've all agreed that covering a pile is done for two reasons: moisture containment and thermal insulation. Again, most of us agreed that there's no point in thermal insulation.

So we're left with moisture containment. And I think the need for that varies region to region. Live in a dry area with no rain? You need the tarp. Live in a wet region with lots of rain? No tarp needed.

I'm not sure why you would feel unwelcome. You made an emphatic statement, clarification was sought (I even said please). The rest was between other people.

But now that you've clarified where you stand, "too wet" is not in the eye of the beholder. There are parameters for composting and recommendations from numerous reputable sources as to moisture content for trouble free composting. I care about leachate because A) it signifies a problem, B) it is frowned upon by the regulatory agencies and C) could impact neighbours.

If there is one thing I dislike is people making absolute claims (especially when they are incorrect). If one wishes to give advice, or make an absolute statement, they had better be able to back it up with credible sources. If one expects that they can make claims/statements without being challenged for an explanation or source, they are delusional.

< Didn't realize that you two would do everything you could to turn this into a fight,> I am sorry you feel that way. It wasn't you I was replying to but I will do my best to stay away from your posts.

I will say the OP asked two questions which I did answer before someone decided that because <I've never ever seen that,> that it is not possible. Which IMO had absolutely nothing to do with what the OP did ask. Suddenly if he hasn't seen something it can't be possible.

<Is there another option for covering the pile? Can I use a thick layer of leaves instead without losing effectiveness?>

If you hang around long enuff you will see who feels they must play the "Devils Advocate" about every point made by someone.

As I said <Keep in mind you can do all things wrong and still come out with compost
- it just takes longer. Compost only stinks when things are wrong.>

Stay or go but I am allergic to Drama and Drama Queens.

"Live in a wet region with lots of rain? No tarp needed."

I think the key word here is 'needed'. I live in an area that is dry in parts of the year, and wet in others. Covering, for me, is important in both dry and wet seasons.

I, personally, want to keep as much stuff in the pile as I can. Leachate, again... for me, is undesirable. A cover - under normal circumstances - may not be 'needed', but it sure is preferred!

If I'm going to go through the effort to make good compost, I'm going to make the most fertile compost I can. Lots of stuff runs out of the pile with rain water, and I personally wish to direct it where I want it... and that's not the storm drain.

I don't use a tarp, I use old carpet to cover my pile, mostly to keep the moisture IN, as it is very dry here.

And yes, I know the carpet scraps are going to give off bad chemicals, but I feel responsible for it, as it came from my house-just couldn't send it to the landfill.