I'm anticipating the threads coming up from the new literate gardeners who typically pick up from an article or discussion such things as these and will start with "I know I need to blend my static items with my non-static items, but I need help ...". This is one more phenomena, or tool, which we can choose to emphasize or choose not too. A great and broad subject, but we seem to be focused on minute bits and pieces objects and not looking at what else there is. What about a place like Central park that was originally planted with trees small enough to be moved and planted that would have been relatively small and delicate compared with the bulky stone bridges and other visually dominant structures that are now dwarfed by some of those trees and are being absorbed by vines and shrubbery? How about the subdivision that was brand new that you grew up in with dinky trees and dinky shrubs with the wide road and sidewalk that is now a canopied tree tunnel shading that once stark open road? Then there are those residential landscapes that we did 20 years ago that have the same walk and stone retaining walls and patio, but the growth has changed the whole flavor of the place. What about a place that you did three years ago? This project could have easily been described (and often was) as a wall with plants. Now it is more likely described as a garden that has a stone wall in it. This is the interpretation I made from the thread title. I don't know if I'm narrow in that, but concrete geese are too alien a notion of hardscape for me to envision on my own. They just do not seem to be items meant to be permanent and I think of "hardscape" as something that has the intent of being permanent (although nothing is permanent). It reminds me of some of the old photos from my area. This land was completely cleared by early settlers. Many of the churches were put on higher hills and often show up in old photos, even as unintended distant objects in the background. Now there are a zillion houses, but there are trees everywhere. One particular church in Yarmouthport can be seen from many places (Sandy Neck in Sandwich, Chapin Beach in Dennis, Exit 8 ramp in South Yarmouth, ...). It is now seen as a steeple sticking out of a tree canopy rather than an entire church in a barren grassy landscape. It is almost a measuring stick of time against a big landscape. I don't know that this fits into the discussion, but those are my thoughts. ... that and one of those plywood plumber grannies with the polka dotted bloomers, of course.

I tried Prok this season from a friends orchard and I wasn't impressed by the flavor as it lacked over all character and sweetness. However the texture was nice compared to some of the other american persimmons i've tried, as well as the size. It was definitely more firm than others. I have heard from some sources that Prok has some asian in it, but I don't know if this is true. Here is a picture of one: http://www.flickr.com/photos/25212487@N04/6224647515/in/photostream I also tried a claypool selection from another friends farm and again, compared to some of the other persimmons I've tried(which I'll explain next), it lacked over all flavor complexity. However it was sweeter than Prok. Here is a picture of that...unfortunately I don't remember the cultivar name, probably because it consisted of a few numbers and was easy to forget. Anyways, it was a claypool selection: http://www.flickr.com/photos/25212487@N04/6271281968/in/photostream My best american persimmon experiences were all at Oikos Tree Crops in southwest, MI where I spent several months examining the american persimmons trees planted there. All of which are seedlings from good selections, i.e. yates, morris burton, etc. Ken Asmus has wonderful seedling planting with over 500 mature trees. There is incredible variation in fruit size, color, texture, flavor, and ripening time. Some don't even ripen in some years. We are working on developing a selection of cultivars from this planting that will be grafted and hopefully available in the nursery trade. These will be some of the northernmost american perisimmon selections, which is great for folks like me in MI where ripening can be a problem. One tree in particular was a seedling of Morris Burton and had AMAZINGLY delicious fruit with very high sugar content and a delectable flavor with butter scotchy notes..by far the sweetest I have ever tried. The flesh on this variety was a rich reddish color...very beautiful. Here is short video of it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iofe3u5pruY&list=UUsSu_6ip07ywsY37D35Cm8w&index=10&feature=plcp Out of the seedling population we also found a tree that produces blue skinned fruit. And not just a touch of blue but very blue! Here is a nice picture of it: http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4083/5167939059_56e3a070e3_z.jpg If you're in Michigan or a similar climate where ripening can be an issue I would consider planting some seedlings from Oikos Tree Crops if you have the space. Sorry I don't have more info about specific cultivars, will have more to come. Cheers!

Like others usually what's on sale. I too have been using white vinegar as a rinse/water softener for years now. Buy it by the gallon. I found that the Dollar Store brand of oxy-clean & Woolite, ($1.ea), works just as well as the real stuff. Bad stains I soak overnight. Luckily, I do not have hard water. I used to love hanging delicates & linens on a clothesline but I can't do that anymore in my new condo. Esp linens when it's cold outside. The scent is something that cannot be duplicated in any fabric softener. What a treat to get into bed & smell the fresh air on sheets & pillow cases. I would hang my down pillows on the line for the day as well. Same with sweaters, winter coats, etc. Try it if you can.

My tall oven cabinet came with a shelf, so I just put it high enough to fit my griddle and extra long platters and then placed the dividers on top of the shelf. The dividers can be screwed down, but I didn't bother as they don't move much without the screws and it also meant I didn't have to drill holes in my shelf! Even if the cabinet had not come w/the shelf, I was going to ask for one since I already had planned for this storage based on what I had seen here in the thread linked below. I think I got the idea from Gizmonike and Sail-Away. BTW...I was originally going to get the Rev-A-Shelf dividers but put these from Walmart in temporarily. The Walmart ones worked so well that I didn't bother to replace them...besides, I would have needed 6 packs of 2-dividers each and at $14.95 per 2-pack, this was much cheaper! I used 3 dividers from Walmart at $5.95 each, so $18 vs $90...easy decision! I also bought two more of those dividers and put them under my corner prep sink...one in each deep corner One holds cutting boards, the other holds my pizza stones & cast iron frying pan. Here is a link that might be useful: Thread: tray cabinets - top 1/2 wasted space