Seller offered to send this tree below as a replacement, but I had to again pay shipping which was $220.

Replacement tree arrived in a box that was too large and it was also damaged.

This mass of roots was hiding a ton of rot beneath.

This damaged branch was previous trauma. Existed before the shipment yet he still sent the plant.

I started cleaning the roots on the new arrival and discovered many pockets of rot.

This is the new arrival:

The previous trauma injured branch rotted:

More rot discovered on plant #1

The seller is posting that US Customs damaged the plants and accepts 0 responsibility.

Tracy

Thanks Rick. I appreciate your support. The worst part of this whole deal is that this person is someone I trusted. I appreciate your feedback. It helps confirm that I am doing the right thing by exposing this shady practice.

Tracy

I'm very sorry for the lost Tracy, I think you're right. Comsankan and Dino are real pro's? I will never buy from Pom after this. A happy New year in advance.

My lucky gold from Dino arrived after 3-4 weeks in a top healthy condition without any damage.

For the sake of clarity, plant #1 arrived October 3. Plant #2 arrived November 12. I have a small Thai soco that came in the box with plant 2 that is doing great so I am certain that temperatures were not a factor.

Dino's packing is top notch, his plants are always processed using proper methods such as hanging and shipped securely in properly sized boxes.

Happy New Year to you too Stuart! That is a long shipping time for a small plant. Was it shipped using EMS? Or just normal delivery?

I don't know Tracy, check here...

International Standard shipping so the time frame is definitely appropriate. How is your Lucky Gold doing?

Tracy

It was a good decision to warn everyone, Tracy. I hope your plants recover but you shouldn't have had to go through the hassle.

Pagan

Thanks Pagan, I am one for avoiding drama and do not enjoy this at all.

I also have been following this along with many others on FB and I know you don't like having to do this.. It's simply unbelievable what you have gone through... If he was a reputable dealer then he would have just made it simple and make good with your order and or refunded you the money. We now see all of the excuses he tries to use and how he makes it seem as though it's someone else's problem/fault.

We all need to be aware of this seller. It's painful to see all that you are going through and have lost..

He's getting so much negative attention in the Adenium world with this one transaction and it certainly will hurt him in the long run.. Just bad business and it all could have been avoided if he would have just " make the customer happy" and not tried to make excuses. Just refund the money and he could have made it easier for you and him. He decided to try and take the wrong path and it will make it harder for him to make new customers when the word is out that he does business like this.

I'm so sorry for all that you are dealing with, Tracy.. Sending you hugs!!!!

Please enjoy the New Year.. We are all thankful to you for saving us from the possibility of being another unhappy customer.

Laura

Tracy. http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/4285194/lucky-gold-from-dino-arrived-today?n=15

So sorry to hear this happened to you (and others) Tracy, I really feel for you. I've been following the threads on FB as well, and Pom's attitude is rude and unbelievable really. Clearly he doesn't realise just yet how much damage he's causing to his business....

These pictures are hard to look at. Such large plants, and ruined.

It's obvious the box was opened, but these plants were damaged before that. This rot does not occur so quickly.

I am very sorry, and you are right to advertise the facts.

Problem is people don't stop buying same thing as with Tyler and Rinoa I never heard that Rinoa made Tyler's good and everbody still buying from her but I'm glad Tracy let everbody know at least I know where to not buy

Roger

Hi Tracy,

I haven't seen the FB posts yet but as Roger says I've had my own experience and can certainly relate. I'm sorry for what you are going through.

Yes, Rinoa did refund me the cost (only) of 2 plants, I would've much rather had the plants. She made me the same "offer" that Pom Adenium did you. Happy to send more plants but I needed to pay the addl shipping. Perhaps if I'd already built a business relationship with Rinoa I might have done that but I didn't feel good about the whole thing and refused to throw good money after bad.

Clearly, you've spent quite a hefty sum with Pom Adenium and believed him to be a reputable seller.

I was already leery of purchasing from anyone not in the U. S. or at least on the North American continent in the first place prior to my own purchase. But I decided to give it a try anyway. 2 rotten plants is what I got for my trouble. After that experience I told myself never again.

Now this for you with Pom Adenium just confirms it.

Is it fair to lump them all together? The "good" sellers with the "bad" sellers? Probably not but it's the course I've personally chosen to take that makes me feel comfortable. I guess it comes down to how much of a risk each person feels like they are taking and how much risk they are comfortable with and is acceptable to them.

1 of my amputees (rotted branch) seems to be ok. No further rot, but no leafing out either. One of the 2 root rot amputees started getting some new growth so potted it up. It's leafing out slowly so still being careful with the water. The 2nd root rot amputee is stil hanging. No further rot, no leafing out.

The best of luck to you Tracy. Please keep us posted. I really hope you are successful in saving them. Where can I find your FB post, please?

Tyler

Tracy,

I am seeing these photos for the first time and shaking my head. I am so, so sorry you had to experience such a loss of cash, trust, desired product ... Wow!!! Unfortunately, there is no consumer affairs oganization that oversees integrity in international sales. We can only protect ourselves by relying on secured avenues of payment via institutions that actively work toward providing customer satisfaction.

The extent of damage pictured was palpable and well underway prior to shipment. They were probably shipped in too-large boxes in order to accommodate the accompanying excuses. To knowingly ship damaged product is blatant theft. There has to be some recourse. The added justifications and zero accountability amounts to nothing more than an insulting lack of integrity. This vendor has disgusting business practices. Another one to add to "The List!"

By all means, spread the word and don't lose a moment's sleep over it!! In fact, thank you for doing so,

Maria Elena

Thanks everyone for your comments. I am having a field day replying to his Adenium Sale posts on Facebook. Here is the original post:

https://www.facebook.com/tracy.adeniumlover/posts/384408738575576?pnref=story

Here is the whole group of photos in an album:

https://www.facebook.com/tracy.adeniumlover/media_set?set=a.384460641903719.1073741833.100010193596678&type=3

is the second link broken?

I don't understand---the seller posted photos but what did he think went wrong with your shipment, Tracy, if not the faulty packing and diseased plants ab initio?

Oh nevermind, I was blocking all the Facebook scripts lol. Took a few minutes to delete all the annoying elements but I got it---the US customs did it.

P

Shipment like this get consolidated into forklift-ready palettes. I've seen them shrink-wrapped out of shape sometimes! This is the sort of thing shippers have to think about when packing things that are irregularly-shaped.

But this seller needs to be dissuaded from the notion that his plants were not diseased to start with. I checked his Facebook thing but I need to create an account to view it and that will never happen.

You know, Trace, I think you should create a thread of white and blacklisted adenium sellers. it's a chore but I'm sure we will all contribute and it will help future buyers. I'd do it but my experience is very limited since I rarely buy them anymore and I've only ever bought live plants from Rinoa. You, on the other hand, have a very expansive experience dealing with a lot of them.

The costs involved are unbelievable, I had no idea!

Pagan

It looks like he also tries to blame it on "chamical fertilizer".

Haha, I couldn't resist.

You have so many pictures that you should create a slideshow and add some commentary and texts and title it with this guy's name on Youtube. A lot of people will see that.

So I was idling about and decided to go through that Facebook thread again to figure out how to navigate that confounded thing (I'm slow).

I like the translations lol don't mess with the gum

I'm sorry Tracy! It's horrible to have to cut into something that you are so looking forward to. I've lost one just recently but it was my doing somehow.

Would one of the experts here with buying and growing start a thread to reputable sellers with links. For live plants and seeds!

I honestly do not know where to go. I took my chance with someone on ebay.

Although it would/could be a good idea to put something like a list together. It would have to be carefully made to not list sellers unless there is good cause. In Tracy's case w Pom, I believe it is relavent.

There is an incident w Rinoa on this Adenium group and it is unfortunate, but I have ordered many from her and would not want her name put on a list to not buy from. There are issues and unfortunate situations.

If anyone is buying w PayPal, then do not do so as "Friend & Family" with a lot invested. If you have paid w PayPal, you have a very large window of opportunity to put in a Claim. As long as you put a Claim in prior to time allowed, you can always retract it. The majority of time PayPal will side w the purchaser. Make every attempt to send messages to seller to show your attempt to resolve the issue. If goods are not received as sold, then you can get a refund of the total, incl. shipping.

i do think this is a good idea (the list), but a explanation for naming someone would have to be listed. There are too many variables & given situations that could effect ones purchasing from said seller.

I am not interested in posting a list, other than a thread listed to be "wary" and people can make a qualified decision on their own.

Rick

Hi Rick what gets me about Thiland sellers is if something goes wrong it's never there fault they may refund for the plant but what about the cost the buyer paid for shipping which most of the time it's more than the cost of the plant . I sell a few plants and mail plants and have never had a problem if it's done right and if something does go wrong I will refund the cost of the plant plus shipping it's the only way to treat your buyers they have no control untell they receive the plant so why should the buyer pay for my wrong doing buy from Thiland long enough you will get screwed

Roger

I agree with you completely, Roger. If a plant is sent unhealthy, then Yes they should be responsible to replace it as well as pay for the shipping themselves. This does seem to be an issue with some. If it turns out to do with the shipping company or held at customs for a lengthy time, they cannot be responsible for this. Unfortunately, it then is an issue that the buyer has to try and make restitution for lost costs.

The problem is that they hide behind and state that refunds will be given or replacement, but not shipping cost. This is why if any situation occurs such as some described within and if PayPal " For Goods & Services" are used. Place a claim, send a note to seller, wait a response if nothing, re-send and then notify PayPal that No Attempt to settle has occurred.

I have been purchasing from Thailand for many years and putting them all in one "basket" is exactly why I will not make any list. Anyone selling plants within North America would appreciate the same consideration.

It becomes a Buyer Beware situation and you do your best to make yourself aware and make an informative decision.

No one would argue your business practice. It is only fair.

Rick

Yep. It sucks but just know what you're considering getting into, what the risk for loss is and how much risk you are prepared to take knowing full well you could completely lose in the end...or luck out and wind up with some great plants. It's a gamble.

Tyler

Nah, I'm not worried about this particular group, Rick. I think this bunch will know the difference between occasional and unavoidable failure to deliver and deliberate, unethical fraud. It isn't as if I'm suggesting we blackball any seller who annoy us.

But some sellers would call you stupid for failing to salvage decomposing plants they send you, like Pom Adenium did to Tracy. That is not cool and that needs to be called out.

While it is true there are ways to recover some cost through stop-payment clauses, the crux of the matter is that we shouldn't have to go through that in the first place. And if we have the ability to ward people off and spare them the trouble, why wouldn't we? At the very least, it will keep other sellers on the straight and narrow so they don't get it into their heads that they can get away with dishonorable conduct.

Fortunately, right now it's a list of one. Hopefully it will stay that way.

Pagan

Pagan "Don't mess with the gum" I believe was supposed to be a threat of some sort. Not sure now he has blocked me on FB.

Yikes. that will probably need to air dry for a long time. if it survives, it will be even more magnificent.

I have ordered from many Thai sellers and Rinoa from Taiwan for many years and have been either fortunate and stay with sellers w a good track record.

A concern for labeling a seller as bad, can all be subject to information given by each individual. I believe that any concerns should be made apparent to all individuals here, so that each one of us can make our own educated decision as to whether we want to pursue purchasing from a seller.

To many variables fall into play, unless obvious as in the Pom issue. Which is deceitful at the least. What is happening w the Thai sellers, is that they want to take payment either through Western Union or PayPal (Friends & Family). This way there is not recourse for us when purchasing. Basically putting cash into someone hand and hope they are honest.

The one thing that I was made aware of at first getting into these plants, was to not order after Oct/Nov or before Mar. If we do order plants within these parameters then we risk the chances of cold conditions. Even if we live in a warmer area through out the winter months. The point of entry into out country is relatively cold. Not the best conditions for these Adeniums. Especially in the winter where my plants would arrive to. A friend many years ago had told me to hold off as much as it might be difficult, as I wanted them right now. Glad he did make this apparent to me.

I have been caught in a similar situation as Tyler did w Rinoa. Fortunately she made good with it. In my situation it had become apparent that she had built her business up and had many people hired to help her, as she could not manage on her own. This leading to unqualified or uneducated eyes packaging plants for export and not aware of what healthy plants look like. This falls on Rinoa's hands and is responsible for this.

For me, my one question to a seller will be. "If a plant is shipped with rot or unhealthy and received within reasonable time frame, Will it plant be replaced and shipping paid by them." If the resulting answer is "No" then I will not be ordering anything. Probably will find that most will not conform to this.

I feel for most of you within the U.S., to have people such as Tracy (may be others, but I do not remember) growing these throughout the year and selling with the U.S. This is where I would look if not wanting to purchase from outside of the country. I can purchase from the U.S., but the cost of the Phytosanitary Certificate from U.S. makes it not very expensive.

That's it for me. If a "Thread" is to be started with a heading so that people can peruse it and make an informative decision based on what they read, then I am for this.

Rick

Tracy, I do sympathize with you one these plants as you know that I do. I would be beside myself. I get concerned that the Thai sellers (some) are becoming selfish and all they see is money being spent, especially through the U.S. and hopefully that honest ones will prevail. I remember years ago on ebay, the Thai sellers where selling plants at low prices and showing shipping being astronomically huge. Obviously covering the price of plant within the shipping charge as well. I sure hope that we can continue to have good relations with the ones we feel are trustworthy?

Tracy, as for the plant with all the biege/brown tissue. It is really dubious as to it's survival, isn't it. The other, possibly?

Make sure you are washing your hand and wearing gloves with all this cutting you are doing on these plants!

I feel FB is the only way to really make a difference on who is known to be honest and reputable.

Rick

There is really no chance of survival on these plants. Rick you are right about the beige colored tissue. They are rotted through and through. Yes I got into these plants and forgot to protect myself Rick. Adenium under the nails burns like hell. Safety should always be at the forefront when cutting on these plants.I am just so sick with remorse that common sense has all but gone.

Oh dear, Tracy, that's terrible! My symphaties...

I only once bought a rotting (as it turned out to be) adenium. Luckily from a renowned and honest seller in Germany (if I recall correctly, one of the oldest nurseries in Germany). I quickly took a photo and e-mailed a complaint with the attached photo. The seller responded the day after and apologized. He offered a new plant with no extra charge for shipping or a full refund. I chose a new plant which arrived a week after. That's the way it should be. No-question-asked-guarantee...

Tracy, I have been there one time in particular, but just not at the cost you have put out.

I think and I am going to send a note to Pom that I would have been considering ordering from him in the spring. Had actually been thinking of this, not Now. Want to let him know that I was thinking of it, but with the situation of yourself that I am reluctant unless he can commit to replace plant and shipping cost if there are any issues with rot or health when received. I realize that he will most likely decline, but I believe that for those of us that do order from Thailand and are active on FB, that this is one way to let him know the future purchasers are lost because of his greedy and dishonest business practice.

After anything has been said within this thread, I really believe that unless the people that have FB accounts, should let him know that he has lost their business. Maybe it will help and keep the others honest.

I will not if you are against this.

Rick

Go Wash your Hands. Do not want anything happening to you.

I am all for it Rick! I do not want him to think for a moment that his business isn't being impacted. I want him reminded daily.

Tracy

Hi Rick&Tracy I agree FB is a good way to let people know who's good and who's bad but I don't know how to get on FB never used it have hard time getting here real dumb with this thing keep my grandkids busy helping me

Roger

FB is a good way to "see" a lot of info., photo's (plants), country, etc., but I use it sparingly.

If you had them set it up for you Roger and have everything only visible by friends, then it keeps it simple. Not for everyone, but good if used in moderation.

Rick