I use the butter Crisco and my piecrusts are flaky.

I've seen some complaints (higher water content or something similar?) on Cooking forum, but I'm still using it and my crusts are good.

I use it, but I have gone to using the amount for lard which is less than the shortening amount , that is called for.

Nope. Not the same. The "zero" trans fat thing has ruined a lot of old recipes that called for shortening. You need to add fat back into the recipes using lard or butter. Even margarine won't have the same outcome as before. Thank you food police. :-(

Crisco isn't supposed to have any water. Butter has quite a bit, though.

Trans fats are carcinogenic on top of the rest of it. There are reasons medical doctors are telling people to never eat any trans fats ever. The appeal of them to the commercial sector is that processed foods made with them don't spoil - think about how that can of Crisco sits there and never goes bad. When you consume hydrogenated fats they fossilize your insides as well.

Crisco does go bad, it turns rancid.

I wonder what the cheap store brands of Crisco is like.

Like my mom, I use only lard for flaky, tender pie crust.

not sure what is used ;) my GF makes it for me whenever she comes for a visit. :)

There is still minimal transfat in Crisco. It is low enough they can claim 0. I am not the best at detecting change so I wouldn't notice the difference in a flakier pie crust from when the change was made. I use lard for my baking. I remember my neighbour coming over to help me make pie crust and her commenting I don't need to beat my pastry. I guess I'm a little rough with it. I am happy with my crust despite my probable overworking of it.

Can you use half butter with the crisco to make it flakier? There is even something called vodka pastry that many rave about. I don't remember trying it out.

I have used 1/2 butter and 1/2 Crisco for my pie crusts for years. We like the flavor and texture. DH likes all butter crust but that is higher in calories and more difficult to roll out, not to mention more expensive.

I have switched to vodka instead of water years ago when I first read about it in NY Times. Too much water makes crusts tough like cardboard because water bonds with flour to form gluten. Vodka is only 60% water so you can use more if you have to. The alcohol burns off while cooking.

How would you change this recipe? (How is 'lard' sold? Would you refrigerate the dough before rolling?))

2 Cups Flour

1/2 teaspoon Salt

2/3 Cup Crisco plus 2 Tablespoons

1/4 Cup Milk

(This is part of a recipe for Apple Pie. It says to bake 20 minutes @ 400F, then reduce to 350F and bake "until juices run". I remember something about dipping fingers in ice water when mixing the dough.)

If you're not using butter, no need to dip fingers in ice water, I do believe. The point is to have it as cold as you can get it, but still work it, and hot hands are disastrous to keeping butter cold.

I'd not change anything about the crisco. It still works the same. Since the big change to it is more water in the formulation, but one often adds water (in your case milk, which also contains water) to a pie crust, why change anything? It's ok as it is.

When I feel up to using the rolling pin on my pie dough, I use lard. However, I also use the pat in the pan dough and I like it really well. They either use butter or oil plus other things. Lard is sold in Meijer and Walmart. I buy mine in a four pound bucket I think it is. It has been awhile since I have bought any as it keeps pretty well. Especially if frozen or refrigerated. If it is rancid, throw it out.

Sue

I think lard and crisco pretty much bake the same? Lard is animal based and crisco is veg based. It is usually right beside the crisco, packaged the same. I have also used crisco for frosting. I would recommend many other recipes (for frosting) before this one.

What do you plan on making? Apple pie or was that reference to a standard recipe you saw for pastry?

Agree with mamapinky, Crisco certainly does go bad. When it is rancid, it is bad. Had to throw a can that had been kept in the refrigerator since opening, because it was rancid and unusable.

Chisue, would you mind sending the rest of the Apple Pie recipe, please.

They must have changed the Crisco formulation. I thought when I read the label awhile back it was quite hydrogenated, as in first or second ingredient on the label. Meanwhile part of the latter day game with trans fats is to label prepared foods containing them according to how much might be in a tiny serving size - you have to watch for that "per serving" phrase before you decide a product doesn't have any.

Then there is the sugar and gluten* that might be in a pie recipe also. And if the pie is being baked in an aluminum pan (aluminum is the main cause of Alzheimer's, which is expected to become horrendously pervasive in coming years).

A friend has baked pies with low toxicity crusts for years and these have been fine.

*These are inflammatory agents, with all major aging diseases now being seen as inflammatory diseases - falling apart with age isn't, in fact natural and unavoidable, is instead driven by bad dietary habits

DH and I are mid-seventies. I don't buy organic, and (obviously) it has been a *very long time* since I baked a pie. I doubt that a few slices of this old recipe will contribute measurably to my hastening disintegration -- especially considering all my *other* terrible habits! LOL

I appreciate the caution that it may not be healthy for others. Is pie ever a healthy choice?

I've never heard the admonition about aluminum; any citations on that?

Walnut Creek -- This is a true 'guess-timate' recipe. It says:

Apples (Evidently 'enough to fill a pie -- LOL I like a big, mounded apple pie!)

1 Cup Sugar

Cinnamon

Nutmeg

Juice of half a lemon and pats of butter on top of the mixture before you add the top crust.

Chisue in the recipe above I would have the Crisco with butter. I would use regular Crisco, not the butter flavored so the different "butter" flavor wouldn't complete with the real butter. If you use salted butter cut the salt in the recipe by half also.

I think people who have food fears like Embothrium should just avoid pie entirely. Apples too. Apples contain polyphenal oxidase (scary chemical name) and even arsenic. Ask Dr. Oz. ;-)

Thank you, Chisue. I asked because I recall my Mom making apple pies and using two oven temps - a high one and turning down to a lower one. That is why I was interested. I remember her recipe calling for lemon juice, too, but she never used it. This is great. I think she put the apples in a bowl then added the other ingredients and stirred well before putting into the pie crust. Regardless, I am glad to her the recipe you shared.

By the way, there is a connection between aluminum and Alzheimer's. I don't have any citations to share with you, but I worked for a doctor who was a friend of a doctor who was doing lots of research into this connection. One time, that doctor's secretary was out and I was asked to type a paper for him to presenting at a seminar. The paper concerning the aluminum/Alzheimers connection. I remember picturing in my mind all of the aluminum we used at that time in our lives - aluminum ice trays, aluminum cookware, aluminum bowls, etc. I know I started steering away from aluminum utensils after typing that paper. My mother and all of her many sisters and brothers all developed Alzheimer's. I can't give up the aluminum foil, however, although I don't use too much of it.

The speculation about a possible connection between aluminum and Alzheimer's disease was debunked long ago. Here's a cite from the Alzheimer's Association:

Myths about Alzheimer's

A friend of my families just went thru chemo for breast cancer..she tossed all her aluminum cookware saying the cancer doctor told her they cause cancer.

I see nothing wrong with baking a pie the good old fashioned way, with sugar and fats. Were eating a slice once in a blue moon not daily although I think I could happily eat pie daily LOL.

I sure didn't notice a problem with Thanksgiving pies. Crisco and butter have always been in my go to pie crust. This is the second reference to vodka in pie crust I have heard..may have to give that a try. I noticed off brand "crisco" gives you a greasier crust more like a lard crust. I have never read a label on either. My mom was a cake decorator and Crisco is the main ingredient in fancy frosting....just saying some people may eat a lot of crisco.

I have been decorating cakes for 40 years and never used Crisco. Always bought bakery grade high ratio shortening (with trans fat) and white fudge base (with trans fats) for buttercream. So far I know no one who has been able to come up with an alternative to duplicate the smooth, good tasting, without the greasy mouth feel white buttercream used for birthday and wedding cakes. The reformulations of the products thus far simply aren't cutting it. The icing comes out gritty and has a greasy mouth feel like the cheap stuff in Walmart. I can still make great tasting cakes using other icings but they are not heat stable and are hard to work with in warm weather. Cream cheese icing works but not everything should be cream cheese. Ditto for fudge. So much so that DD and I are looking for alternative birthday treats for the grand kids birthdays. One reason fondant is so popular today. The play dough of cake decorating. UGH.

Wiltons buttercream sold in the tubs leave that greasy feel in the mouth.

Watchmelol, can you share the recipe for your buttercream? I understand if you can't condidering your a cake decorator. Thank You.

watchemelol, have you ever tried the marshmallow fondant? It tastes okay. All in all, I don't care for many frostings at all so an okay taste is pretty good for me. Sorry Chisue, we seem to wandering....

Nice, yummy 'wandering' is just fine with me! Thanks for all the help. (Notice that I am not promising to actually *make* this pie...) I had thought about giving the recipe to our DGS (11) who *does* like to bake.

Crisco reminds me of Loretta Lynn and I love, love, love Loretta Lynn. I don't cook with it myself but I remember Loretta's Crisco commercials fondly.

Mamapinky I'm a hobbyist, not a commercial decorator. I was given this recipe by a fellow cake decorator 40 years ago when I was just learning and the stuff taught in classes was Crisco and sugar along with grocery store vanilla.

Alpine White Swiss Buttercream

2 pounds powdered sugar

4 oz. water

1 Tablespoon vanilla butter

1 lb. 3 oz. hi-ratio shortenening

5 1/4 oz. brite white

Mix together the liquids and the powdered sugar. Add shortening and brite white. Beat together for a full 15 or more at medium speed (level 5 on the KitchenAid) for at least 15 minutes.

You need at least a five quart bowl and a good food mixer like a Kitchenaid. Weaker mixers will burn out. Use the paddle not the the whip attachment.

This recipe was fantastic before they removed the trans fat from the shortening and the brite white. I can no longer get brite white at all and the alternate whitefudge base at my local cake supply has is awful. I was buying my hi ratio from out of state for a few years when California first enacted the new law. Now that it's gone federal I can't do that anymore. The manufacturers are trying to come up with products with the same results but they simply don't work like the original. Icing slides and slips, it takes on that greasy mouth feel and it's doesn't emulsify or whip up as high. It's even hard to get an nice smooth surface with it. The new stuff makes about a 3rd less volume. Some people are adding butter or even Dream Whip (the powdered version) of marshmallow creme to try to counter the loss of the trans fat. Mixed results. Some day the awful stuff will become the norm. People will just accept if if they haven't been exposed to the good stuff.

That original recipe above converted a lot of people that say they don't like basic white (buttercreme) birthday cake icing. They were shocked to find it didn't have to be heavy and greasy.

People really need to be more aware of their sources and stop believing everything in their email inbox. And a friend of a friend's cousin's dog-groomers, pool cleaner's sister-in-law isn't always a good source either.

There is NO credible evidence supporting the claim of aluminum causing Alzheimer's. But people WANT to believe it so they put it out there thinking if they say it enough it'll be true. I suspect it's mostly people with stock in plastic wrap and glass companies that want aluminum banned.

Already linked but worth quoting from alz.org .

"Myth 4: Drinking out of aluminum cans or cooking in aluminum pots and pans can lead to Alzheimer’s disease.

Reality: During the 1960s and 1970s, aluminum emerged as a possible suspect in Alzheimer’s. This suspicion led to concern about exposure to aluminum through everyday sources such as pots and pans, beverage cans, antacids and antiperspirants. Since then, studies have failed to confirm any role for aluminum in causing Alzheimer’s. Experts today focus on other areas of research, and few believe that everyday sources of aluminum pose any threat."

Please folks, get some FACTS before contributing to a hoax. We need to tame Chicken Little. And if you have any credible proof to the contrary, I'd enjoy seeing it.

It's also good to keep in mind that scientific discoveries evolve with technology, and while there may be no link today, it doesn't mean there won't be in 20 years, with possible damage accumulating in the meantime. Look at smoking - it used to be prescribed to pregnant women as a way to relieve stress, and now we know how dangerous cigarettes are to a fetus. How many years of smoking damage occurred during that "safe" time? I avoid aluminum and plastics and other things that make sense to me, even though they may prove to be safe long-term.

Chi, so you're saying don't eat or do anything because sometime in the future it MIGHT be unsafe? C'mon! They've been trying to prove aluminum is bad since the 50s and before and just haven't done it and considering the money behind those desires, there's certainly been a LOT of research completed. I have a real problem with the attitude of just because it isn't bad now doesn't mean it won't be in the future... That's paranoia to infinite degree. Remember that it's been proven that breathing is deadly. Everyone who ever got cancer, alzheimer's, even a cold has breathed sometime in their life so that means people should stop breathing. To say nothing of saliva being deadly when swallowed in small amounts.

Science will evolve but why get so involved in hysteria? Get some PROOF, and then it's time to go crazy.

Speaking of hysterics...anyway, your paraphrasing of my words is severely hyperbolic and honestly pretty ridiculous. How about you avoid, or don't avoid, whatever you'd like, and I can do the same, without ridicule?

I don't care if others avoid what I want to ingest. I'm just sick of the banning and the re-marketing of foods. You want to believe you're gluten intolerant or that carbs will kill ya? Fine and dandy with me. But I want to have access to my favorite breads without 1/3 of the bread aisle being replaced with gluten free, carb free, no animals were injured in the making of this bread free products. Diet Pepsi changed it's formula due to this type of madness. Bad move on their part. I see Diet Dr. Pepper flying off the shelves now while the Pepsi just sits there. Tastes awful so their consumers have found an alternative. Because a small minority of anti science nutcases they reformulated a product the majority preferred. The fruit and nuts group doesn't even drink much soda but somehow they "lobbied" and won.

And "they" said the mercury in vaccines did not contribute to autism either. Now there are new studies that say it does . No one is getting hysterical or going crazy, they are just using common sense. I say, if there is even the smallest chance of possibilty, avoid it. You cynics can suck up all the stuff you want to, you shouldn't criticize others for being careful.

Thanks for the link, Elmer. Very interesting reading. And I am glad to know that the aluminum/Alzheimer's connection has been proven false.

I know the greasy feeling you are speaking of in frosting..can't say mom's ever had it..she too was a hobbiest and your frustrations with Crisco just were not in her experience. I am glad as people really reallly like her nummy, beautiful and complicated cakes!!

Making a flaky piecrust is MUCH more about technique than it is shortening. You can make a shoe leather crust with any king of shortening.

"You can make a shoe leather crust with any king of shortening." That's me ; ).

No, it's not 'live and let live' about FACTS v. FICTION.

That's how we created the new world of Post-Truth!