Can you post a drawing of the whole floor so we can see how the kitchen relates to the rest of the house?

Could you post a bigger version of the measured layout? It's so small it's difficult to read.

• Can you tell us about you and your family and how you plan to use the Kitchen?
• Where are you flexible? Can walls, doors, and/or windows be changed/moved/removed?
• How open are you to major changes?

These and other items are discussed in the Layout Help FAQ. I recommend reading it and letting us know more. It's difficult giving you more than general advice without knowing more about you and your project.

How do I ask for Layout Help and what information should I include?

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2767033/how-do-i-ask-for-layout-help-and-what-information-should-i-include

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In case you haven't read them already, I also recommend reading the Kitchen Design Best Practices/Guidelines threads. They will help you understand kitchen design and what considerations should be addressed as well as recommendations for workspace, aisles, seating overhangs, etc. They will also help you understand comments you receive.

Kitchen work zones, what are they?

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638270/faq-kitchen-work-zones-what-are-they

Aisle widths, walkways, seating overhangs, work and landing space, and others

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638304/faq-aisle-widths-walkways-seating-overhangs-work-landing-space-etc

How do I plan for storage? Types of Storage? What to Store Where?

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3638376/faq-how-do-i-plan-for-storage

Ice. Water. Stone. Fire (Looking for layout help? Memorize this first)

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2699918/looking-for-layout-help-memorize-this-first

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buehl--We have a large family (6 kids). We eat a home cooked meal with lots of helpers in helping together every evening and I make -take it as you go- breakfast for the kids as they all leave at different times. It is a busy hardworking space that we also need people to gather in. We also entertain frequently.

I have pdfs of all the designs but I can't figure out how to paste a pdf here. so I will try taking some photos...We have already moved walls and still want to add some windows. We are still flexible since no walls have been put back up and we haven't done plumbing and electircal.

I don't want to move the long angled cabinet wall at all (makes for an awkard shape of kitchen, but what can you do?) But everything else is rearrange-able.

If you search the web, there are some free converters out there that convert PDFs to JPGs.

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Appliances - it looks like you want the following:

• Two 24" DWs
• Range - 36" or 48"?
• All refrigerator/All Freezer - 24" or 30"?
• MW Drawer (?)
• Anything else? Warming Drawer? Wall oven?

Regarding the DWs, there have been several discussions over the years about the placement of two DWs and the consensus has been that they work better when they're both at the cleanup sink. Some have said they intend one for dishes and one for prep dishes, but the reality is that things get mixed together. When they're separated, you end up running back and forth b/w the two looking for what you want!

Cleanup Zone in the island - do you really want your dirty dishes front & center on display for all to see? Even if that's a raised seating area (which I do not recommend), it only hides the dishes from those people whose heads are lower than the counter - and that will rarely happen!

It makes more sense to put the Cleanup Zone on the perimeter and one of your Prep Zones on the island. It also allows you to prep facing visitors or just be part of the action in the rest of the home while prepping.

Keep in mind that prepping is by far the activity you spend the most time doing. Per Kitchen work studies:

• 70% or more of the work done and time spent in the Kitchen is spent prepping - preparing a meal or snack
• 20% or less is spent cleaning up - and that includes not just sink work (hand washing a few items), but also non-sink work such as loading the DW (if you don't pre-rinse your dishes), unloading the DW, clearing the counters & table, wiping down the counters & table, and sweeping up at the end of the day.
• 10% is spent cooking - stirring, adding ingredients, actually watching food cook

Based on the above, it makes the most sense to have the Prep Zone in the best spot - whether for the view or for visiting, whichever you prefer. Most people here state they would rather prep on an island or peninsula than facing a wall.

What is that on the "bottom" of the left wall?

Oh...Thanks!

So here is what we have planned hopefully the pictures will be better this time around:

Do you have a layout that shows all the dimensions of the space? E.g.,

• What's the length of each of the two walls?
• What'st the distance b/w the left wall and the far right wall?

Here are the dimensions that would be very helpful to know:

(Cross posted, the one you posted has some of the measurements - but others would also be helpful!)

that place you have circled was once a very large stone fireplace that also had an indoor bbq... We took it out thinking we would be able to arrange the kitchen when we knew exactly what could be removed. We were able to remove everything but a small shaft for venting the fireplace downstairs and for the cold air return. The floor plan doesn't really show what we decided to put there. There are 153" from the bend in the wall (the one with all the cabinets) to the end of the utility shaft. then there are 137 from the utility shaft to the step down into the living room. Does that make sense?

Measurement:

B 153"

C 183"

D 26"

E 80"

F 71"

G 296"

H 221"

The wall doesn't end there, it is a continuous wall for cabinets...at least that is what we have planned now.

"There are 153" from the bend in the wall (the one with all the cabinets) to the end of the utility shaft. then there are 137 from the utility shaft to the step down into the living room."

The Living Room is behind the Kitchen's 190" wall...do you mean the Family Room?

If you do mean the Family Room, then the length of that wall is 153" + 137" + width of Utility Shaft, correct? (290" + width of Utility Shaft)

What is the size of the Utility Shaft?

Wall C, is it 183" or 190"? Your layout says 190", but it could be that the 190" includes a 7" thick wall on the office end?

I'll just say that those sharp counter protrusions are going to hurt you. Angle them or round them off. Ouch!

Wondering about the dimensions of the "Utility Shaft"...

Here's an idea:

• All perimeter counters and cabinets are 3" deeper than standard:
  -- Counters are 28.5" deep. This gives you more workspace as well as more room behind the sink for a faucet and to clean behind
  -- Base cabinets are 27"D. If your cabinetmaker does not offer deeper base cabinets, then pull standard 24" base cabinets out from the wall
  -- Upper cabinets are 15"D. This should not be a problem - most cabinetmakers today offer 15"D upper cabinets.

• All zones are nicely separated, which allows multiple people to work in the Kitchen at one time - preparing a meal/snack, cooking, and/or cleaning up.

• There are four defined Prep Zones, with potential for others throughout the Kitchen. There are 3 Prep Zones on the island - two of which are adjacent to the prep sink. The third is around the corner and while it is not directly adjacent to a sink, it's close to both sinks. There is a 2-bin trash pullout next to the prep sink.

• The Cooking Zone is on the wall for ease of venting. It is surrounded by ample work/landing space. There are two cabinets on the left for tray storage and pot & pan storage on the right. Additional pots & pans can be stored in the island.

• The Cleanup Zone is on the perimeter where dirty dishes are hidden from direct view from the Dining Room and Family Room. Both DWs flank the cleanup sink. There is also a 2-bin trash pullout b/w the cleanup sink and the range for easy access from both the Cooking Zone and the Cleanup Zone.

• Dish storage is located in several locations near the DWs and all to the left of the cleanup sink. This is so your dishes are located near their point of use - the Dining Room. Dishes are also stored near the DWs for ease of unloading. Finally, dish storage is located where someone can set the table or load/unload the DW without getting in the way of those preparing & cooking.

• Since you have a large family, you probably have more dishes than most (I grew up in a large family - six children as well - and we had more dishes than most.) Dish storage is located:
  -- A 24" Dish Hutch is to the left of the sink/DW. It has a 15" deep upper cabinet that goes to the counter above a 27" deep base cabinet. I recommend the first 6" to 9" of the upper cabinet be either a drawer or two or separate doors from above so you can open the doors above even when there are items on the counter. A nice thing about this arrangement is that if you are short or while your children are, dish storage is lower than in standard upper cabinets. Instead of starting 18" above the counter, storage starts 9" or so above the counter. [Note, I originally made it 36" wide, but then I remembered that you have a Utility Shaft at the end!]
  -- There is a 42" dish drawer in the island for additional dishes. The drawer faces the sink/DW side. With an aisle 51" wide, you should be able to have both the DW and the drawer open at the same time - nice and easy for putting dishes away!
  -- Finally, assuming the Utility Shaft is not as deep as the counter, I propose putting a tall dish cabinet in front of it for additional dish &^ glass storage.

• The refrigerator and freezer are on the periphery so both those working in the Kitchen and those just looking for a snack or putting away groceries can access it without getting in each other's way. They are also located so non-Kitchen workers do not have to cross through the working part of the Kitchen to get to them.

• The MW drawer is located on end of the island - near the refrigerator/freezer and a water source. Most MW'd food comes from the refrigerator or freezer and many need water added to them when MWing. As with the refrigerator, the MW is located such that both Kitchen workers and non-workers can access it without getting in each other's way.

• The Pantry is located just outside the main Kitchen work area. A walk-in/step-in/reach-in pantry is a much better use of space for pantry storage - it's more flexible, it costs much less, and storage is more efficient.

• The island has seating for eight. Two seats have 18" of knee/leg space for tall family members or visitors. The other six seats have the minimum recommended 15" overhang. This will be find for short to average height folks.

• There is a 12"w x 27" tall Utility pullout for broom, dustpan, swifter, etc. If you prefer, it could also be turned 90 degrees so it's a 27"W x 12"D cabinet.

• To the left of the pantry is a Tea/Coffee/Beverage Center. It's located outside the Kitchen proper to allow anyone to make tea/coffee, etc., without encroaching on the Kitchen's main work area. If you'd like, you could add a bar sink and, possibly, a refrigerator drawer or under-counter beverage refrigerator.
  Note that a bar sink is smaller than a prep sink, so it will not take up as much room. A bar sink is usually small b/c the most use it gets is to fill glasses for water or to fill a coffee maker, etc. Prep sinks, on the other hand, get a lot more use and more space is needed so they are generally larger.

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Zone Map:

Buehl-

Thank you so much! I really like your suggestions. I never considered putting the main sink on the perimeter because I thought it needed to be on the island or under a window (which, obviously is not an option). It absolutely makes sense to have the prep on the island...Thank you for the pointers! I really appreciate it!