Rice/Bread/paper= Carbohydrates=browns veggie/fruit/grass/green=protein=greens. Balancing kitchen wastes with browns such as breads, pastas, noodles, rice, napkins, tissues, etc. is a good thing and helps bring the C:N to optimal. I have 2 hunting cats, live in MA and have never had a rodent problem in my compost. If I did have a rodent problem I would add mammalian urine to the compst bin. If I still had rodent problems I would compost some rodents.

hm....to tell the truth I have never checked the temp of my starter or my oven with/without the light or my bread dough or the starter as I was getting it going ! My house is 68 all winter and then in the Summer we keep the thermostat on 78. Whatever time of year it is all seems to do just fine. I have never made an exception for my bread dough other than to place it in the oven with the door propped open with an oven mitt. That is how it is today with the dough I am currently making. It has to rest at "room " temp for 3 hrs...with stretch and folds every 30 min for the first 2 hrs and then leave it alone for one hour. Then shape and let rise one hour at room temp then retard overnight and bake direct from fridge in 500 degree pre-heated pots tomorrow. I just checked my oven temp with the light on and it is 73. That is where I do my apple yeast water and my starter after I feed it and that is where my first and only , current , stater got going. One of the things they caution is not to over feed your starter...as in until it doubles don't feed again. I followed the method I linked 4 yrs ago and didn't have a problem. I know others on the Fresh Loaf have had to try about 3-4 times to get one going. I used rye flour from my local health food store and bottled water ( that is important when getting it started) and King Arthur white AP flour. It could be that is the problem with your first starter is over feeding. As to the second starter I wouldn't worry at all about "bad" stuff growing at this point. The tiny bubbles and concept of "bad" are not a problem at this point. Simply carry on and move it to a slightly cooler place and feed/discard and definitely stir well and give it air via a loose cover. It should be fine. As to the other one after 6 days if it has bubbles and has a fine odor I sure wouldn't discard it either. I would take out half and feed it and leave it where it is about 75 for 24 hrs and see what is what. As to apple yeast water just chop up 100g of apple and put it in the quart jar with 2/3 full filtered water...it does love the 80's so use your oven with light. Stir very well every couple hours all during the day for 3 days - 4 days. It is ready to rise bread. The apples will always float and the water will be VERY fizzy ! You can hear it ! It does need a lot of attn and warmth the first 3-4 days and then it is completely care free and can be in the fridge for weeks at a time and not used. Once you get your other starter going....and I do urge you to go to TFL and read some of the discussions on getting a starter going...I will tell you how to store it when not in use for lengths of time...when I am gone on a bicycle tour I leave mine unattended in the fridge for months. Keep us posted. c http://www.thefreshloaf.com/search/node/debra%20wink%20starting%20a%20sour%20dough%20starter read the first two articles by Debra Wink...linked above and then the link below...you will know more than I do when done :) Debra's way always works !! c Here is a link that might be useful: TFL...link to a lot of discussions

I agree, knocking down the dough shouldn't hurt it, the yeast should let it come back as it needs to. I think it's not knocked down becasue it's supposed to be fast and easy and that adds another step. As Ann mentioned, safety isn't an issue, but I'll be interested to see how the batch turns out. Annie

Please REREAD my original post.It was never meant to be condecending or belittle anyone who eats or makes white bread.That being said you did nothing in the way of offering help to someone who was asking about whole grain baking.Its great that you can bake by feel and make ajustments based on your experience.Where does that leave someone who is a novice and needs help? How many recipes from our mothers and grandmothers have been lost forever because they did it by feel and no one ever bothered to measure the ingredients or jot down baseline instuctions, so future generations would have a starting point and be able to enjoy a heritage dish.Everything we create in life has to have a recipe or starting point from which to go;it either being in your head or from a book.I have 30+ bread books and good or bad they all provide a basis on which to start.Reinhart's book on whole grain baking is one of the better on that topic,in my humble opinion,and has taught me a great deal and that was the only reason I chose to answer the question.It was certainly not to get in a battle of words with someone who completely misinterpreted my remarks.