I don't think it can be further narrowed. One often must relocate to a lower cost of living area to get what one wants.

I think that once you start looking at houses it will help you narrow things down a bit. For us we compromised on things that could be changed later without knocking down walls or doing major remodeling. The house needs more work than I had hoped (some we didn't discover until we moved in) but the basics are there.

Compromise on thins that can be changed...paint, flooring, appliances, etc. Buy the best Sq footage in the best location that you can afford. Or even compromise on sf for location. Ideally you want the worst house in the best neighborhood, since you can improve it and raise the value.

Just make sure you have the money for immediate repairs, and can save for the nice/cosmetic repairs.

Don't compromise on location, structural soundness of the house, and number and bedrooms and bathrooms. This is what it takes to make a house functional. How flexible you are with the budget is up to you, but buying more house than one can afford is unlikely to end well. Everything else is harder to sort out.

I would actually recommend reading the Property Brothers book. They have a section discussing how to generate and sort through a wish list for a new house. They were in the business long before the TV show and the book is solid. They are also careful to point out the differences between TV and real life, which was a pleasant surprise.

Agree with location and structural soundness. I would add to maintain a sense of a sound layout, one that flows well, and reject 'odd' or 'quirky' floorplans regardless of tantalizing prices (unless one has serious DIY skills or access to free but talented labor.) Or not even then. During my long housing search I was amazed at the number of muddled houses, often by PO's over the years who added on in dysfunctional ways.

Top 5 can't be fit into price range?

what is it that won't fit? land size? size of house? what?

If you want ideas you have to be more forthcoming with information. I'm not a good fortune teller.

The main trade off, for our budget, is lot size/house size vs proximity to river access and highly rated high school. I'd like to be able to bike to the river trail, either through residential area or low volume traffic corridors.

It's likely we'll compromise on lot size and biking access to river trail...I'd prefer quarter acre or larger. The house needs to be around 1500 sq ft, which is doable. The cosmetic condition isn't as important to us, we're staying in a range where wet could afford changes over the years but not immediately.

We're at least a year away from moving, want to prep our house for sale, so in the meantime we'll keep watching for something that tics the boxes. I believe it exists but is not the "average" of what's in our range. I'm just disappointed that it will be harder to find exactly what we'd prefer.

I agree with Lys 100%. Location should be number one as a better location will always hold its value and/or appreciate more than one in a less desirable area.

Also while kitchens and bathrooms can be changed, you want the house to be structurally sound. And lastly you want a house that has good flow.

The whole location issue is basically one of the trade offs. Which location? Both areas are nice and hold their values reasonably well. So do we want access to the river trail within 1-2 mile biking distance, average high school, less immediate shopping, power lines below ground or do we want highly rated high school and possibly larger lot with more shopping and power lines above ground (sometimes running diagonally above backyard)? Either choice is good, and highly rated high school isn't totally excluded if we choose river access (but we'd have to apply and may not get in yada yada).

As far as actual house, my minimums are separate family and living rooms, 1300 min square foot, utility sink in laundry area (or space to add one), 3 bed/1 1/2 baths. This isn't as hard to find, it's mainly deciding which location we prefer because we can't afford the area with biking access to river trail AND highly rated high school unless we go consider condo or townhouse... but then you get pretty much no yard.

All the thoughts just keep swimming around in my mind and I feel like if I can't even decide which location we should focus on how can we move forward? Maybe I'm okay with either as long as the house is a good fit for us.

Lys I'm going to read that book, thanks for the suggestion.

" it looks like our personal top five cannot be satisfied in our price range. "-yep, that's what usually happens to most folks LOL.

You either leave one-location. And go from there. Structurally sound, flow, privacy if it matters to you..

(I'm also picky about the looks. I need to like how the house looks like and how the street feels like...It's all very personal of course)

Or you adjust your price point..couple hundred thousand more are usually enough:)

We didn't do that last time for various reasons-and we still payed this couple hundred thousands difference, only in remodel. And we didn't start on landscaping yet..:)

Would be faster and more beneficial for our health just to pay more from the very beginning.

Which I told my husband from the very beginning when house-hunting..:)

No power lines. And no average high school(even though these ratings are subject to change. Sometimes pretty fast)

River trail and great school-I'd pick that, and get a townhouse. Unless you know yourself and know you'll get seriously bugged by it.

We live in a beautiful townhouse community right now, one of the best around here, amazing neighborhood etc..but now more families with kids moved in, and I feel guilty each time I smoke outside even though my smoke doesn't reach anybody.

And I don't want to feel guilty on my own patio..:)

I'm pretty sure no townhouse, we have two dogs who would miss their yard and I love gardening so would also miss the yard.

April it's interesting you mention smoking on your patio; we live next door to smokers. They smoke everything and in the lovely evening they'll smoke outside and it comes into our open windows. Or they smoke in the garage and it comes into our bedroom window. I want to be far enough away that this won't impact is if we live by smokers again. That's partly where lot size factors in, but also it's the unfortunate way our homes happen to be oriented.

Usually better schools are correlated with more stable property values, but it doesn't seem to be the case here. Is the average-rated high school acceptable from a safety standpoint? What is the opinion of your child, would he be ok with that school? Can you find people whose kids are going to those schools and ask what they like and dislike about them? I personally finished an average high school and it didn't seem to impede me in any way. I found the teachers extremely helpful and approachable, and that didn't seem to be the case at the two top ranked high schools according to students that went there. Whoever is to do well in school will do well regardless, or at least this has been my experience, albeit one of 20 years ago.

So if all else checks out, I would probably pick access to the river trail. High school is only for a few years, but enjoyment of the river trail will last for a lot longer. And who knows, he may even get into the better high school anyway. I just thought to throw this opinion out there since I know a lot of people feel that the best high schools and the best universities must be obtained at all cost or else the child's future is at risk, and you might end up hearing this opinion a lot.

Melle, you won't regret reading that book. It's jam packed with info and it's an easy read as well. (And here I am, not quite believing I'm recommending a book written by HGTV stars... :) ).

Oh, and April, you should feel guilty no matter where you smoke, isn't that what the Surgeon General says? ;) (Joking! My mother smokes and I know it is a problem finding a good spot for that.)

That's true about the schools, to some degree-so much depends on a child..and the family of course. Also, there are some amazing teachers everywhere-be lucky to have one, and who knows, he might give you wings you never felt you had before. But of course you need more stars aligned for you, I guess.

I see our rating for the high school in our new neighborhood-and this rating went from 10 to 7.5 in 5 years. I became interested in "how come"(my kids don't go there, so can't judge by myself), and started reading reviews, both by parents and students..went through several pages of those. They basically say that it's great for kids who are already good learners, are advanced, and strive to be challenged more. But other students might feel lost, and don't arrive to their full potential.

melle-sacto, I have an agreement with our closest neighbors since day 1-I smoke in the corner of my patio that is furthest from their patio..no neighbors on another side.I must say though when I hear them open the door-I usually put my cigarette out. I'm a considerate self-destructive person:)

Lys, I always feel guilty about something, smoking or not:) I should have become used to it by now.. But no. So many wonderful opportunities to feel guilty, I rarely feel I missed on something LOL

Back to schools-UC system has a rule of accepting the top 9% of a class, no matter where and what the school is. It doesn't mean that top-tier universities like Berkeley or UCLA will accept you, but one of the schools in the system will.

I even heard some parents put their kids in a slightly weaker school, to make sure they perform at the top of their class. Have no idea how much truth is in that, and also very far from my own mode..but yes, I heard this opinion too.

PS that's one of the reasons I picked our new house-older part, bigger lot

Saw absolutely charming home, walking distance to everything(walking distance was a huge part of our "location factor")-but zero lot..I imagined myself smoking outside there-and it goes right to the neighbors..

No. Not good for the neighbors, not good for me

As convenient as it was and as lovely kitchen it had(no idea how this color is called-mushroom-y yellow?))-I just couldn't.

I know I'm stating the obvious, but, concern about school quality matters also for those who will never have children and for those who's children are grown as communities with good schools are attractive to home buyers which really helps if you're ever planning to sell.

You can stick a bike rack on the back of the the car to get to the river; you can't move a better school. There are many reasons one school is more highly rated than another, but a school that attracts very bright students can greatly benefit your children. Children typically want to get respected by their peers, and if their peers are high achievers, they will often work very hard to gain that respect. I'd add that HS about SAT scores, number on National Merit Semi-Finalists and college placement.

Of course, this only matters if your children are well above average students. If they're not, buy the house that best meets your needs.

We had this issue in finding a house, and I would go for the one in the better school district. You just don't know if "open enrollment" will always be available in the other, and a house in a good school district (especially a family home) is always more valuable.

Is this your last child and you only have 4 more years of high school needs? I think this makes a difference in choosing a "forever" property for the school system or one that provides ammenities that enhance your day to day life (river access).

Maybe wait to move from your current area until your kids are done with K-12 schools?

Move, but rent in the good school district first and then buy when your lifestyle changes?

I know in the areas I live good schools are what drive good location. YMMV where you are, but I would think good schools normally drive housing prices?

My reasoning isn't based on which school would be better for your child. Only you can decide that. I'm just talking property values and their staying stable.

My kids are in 6th and 2nd right now. The areas with good high schools do have more stable housing prices, just not near any great biking except busy streets or the neighborhood. I guess neighborhood biking is fine, I just like the idea of being able to bike or walk to the river.

I'm reading the Property Brothers book, hoping to find insight. So far most of what I have read aligns well with forum wisdom

I wondered what ages you kids were. Your situation may be different, but you may want to consider where their friends live, how they get to school, how your carpool will run for all the activities, etc. as it gets busier, until they are old enough to drive themselves. Sometimes townhouses/condos have a lot of kids, so getting together with friends is easy, and there are plenty of friends around...when your kids are old enough to stay at home by themselves, or where they can travel on their own from your location.

None of their friends live in our neighborhood, sadly. Our kids attend a charter school that has children from all over town, and they will likely disperse to the various "better" high schools. They don't really have a lot of friends they see outside of school and no one seems to have kids that play outside where we live.

Many families own or rent in the neighborhood in immediate proximity to their current school; we're three miles away from there and although it's a cute neighborhood, the high school is the same one that we are already in the bounds for (the average high school) except that it's in walking distance of our current too-small place. Most families I've talked to are not planning to send their kids to this high school... but it's still a few years away so many factors could change.

I assumed you will be moving in that area for the high school, but the kids are young so it will be harder to make a decision. The standard advice is of course that you cannot go wrong buying in the area with the better school system. If you don't like it, you can always resell. On the other hand, the kids are still young, so you can buy next to the river trail and sell if the better high school becomes a priority. Not helping, am I? :)

I do believe things will clarify somewhat once you see as many houses as possible in both areas. I don't find the above-ground power lines an issue, as they are unavoidable in most places where I lived, but you might find you have to have a detached house given noise issues, for example, or the amount of traffic is a no-go for biking.

My DH says he doesn't ever want to move again because he wants to be mortgage-free by retirement age, and so I'm not sure I can plan to ever move away from whatever place we'd find. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but he doesn't want to consider it. I guess that's partly why I hate to make this choice mainly based on the high school.

oh people think lots of things. take me-i was sure i'd never put my foot abroad when i was a little girl, and i had much more reasons to think so too.

and here i'm abroad (and it's already my fifth time moving, including some back and forth ), and on my third "forever home" lol .

what i wanted, mattered very little in all that, in the end.

of course i can hope it will change again, to what I want at last...:)

as for the schools..my Mom told me once "everything can be taken from a person, but their knowledge". this saying, even though not very precise, obviously made an impression on young and vulnerable me..))

you know better of course, it's your family, and you know your needs like no others.

i just wanted to say-we choose our roads and ways, but life has a way of its own. seemingly permanent things change. temporary things might become permanent. it's all banal, what i'm saying, but it's banal because it's, well, true.

so it maybe won't be exactly perfect, what you'll find. but we, people, we don't really need perfect. we need good enough..:)

we usually tend to fall in love with "good enough" too, rather than perfect:) as paradoxically as it sounds.

April is totally right -- we make plans and the universe laughs in our faces. I'm on my third country of residence so I experienced that firsthand. That doesn't mean we don't make long-range plans, but we try to ensure that if the temporary becomes permanent and vice-versa, we are not caught in a bind. Add to that the kids, which will have their own opinions. You can get close to the better high school, then you'll find out all their friends go to another one and that's where they want to go. However, don't let analysis paralysis stop you from moving to a larger house now, while the whole family can use it and enjoy it.

It sounds to me that location and lot size are the most important things. I think if it were me I would concentrate on those priorities and houses that can be changed to accommodate other wants later.

I know I also read that you didn't want to buy a house with a laundry list of things needing to change. But you can only 'buy' what is available or look at building a new house in the area you want to be in.

If you buy in the area with the better trails but lesser HS now and house prices drop, you'll be stuck in the neighborhood with your children going to that school. If you buy in the better neighborhood with the better school, then even if prices drop, you are ok where you are.

Biking trails are a nice perk but a better school system will almost always hold house value. And if the school is so bad that most of the people in the charter school will not send their children there, what does that tell you?

Good schools tend to stay good schools. They tend to attract the best and brightest teachers, and home values tend to rise more quickly in a better neighborhood.

Our first house was in an ok district. Not bad for lower grades but the HS had problems. We sold that house in 1993 and bought in a better school district when my son was entering kindergarten (and yes paid more for the better district).

The house in the ok district with the problem HS, is now worth about 2.55x what we sold it for back in 1993. The house we bought in 1993 (and sold in 2010) in the better school district is now worth about 3.67x more than what we paid for it in 1993. And that's even with the first house being blocks to the ocean!

So in rough numbers. Say both houses were equal and in 1993 were selling for $100,000. House one in the not so good district would be worth $255,000 today while house two in the better district would be worth $367,000.

School districts sell. You're talking about a 10 year period. Get into the better schools and when the kids are off to college you can then sell and move to your biking area. For now, if the biking area is too far, get a good bike rack for the car and drive to the area you like.

My DH says he doesn't ever want to move again because he wants to be mortgage-free by retirement age, and so I'm not sure I can plan to ever move away from whatever place we'd find. That doesn't mean it couldn't happen, but he doesn't want to consider it. I guess that's partly why I hate to make this choice mainly based on the high school.

My ex said the same thing. LOL. Of course once we divorced the house was sold. I'm not suggesting divorce!

What I'm suggesting is that 10 years down the line or so, your DH may change his mind. You might decide you want to move out of the area completely or who knows. Buy a house for your needs now because in 10 years they will be different.

Hope retirement for him and college for the children is not too close together! He'll have to have a mortgage to finance college.

For us, nothing is more important than school district. We always purchased houses in the best school districts for all three level of schools - grade school, middle and high schools, if one of the three schools was not in the best school district, we skipped the house.

Over the years we never had trouble selling our houses even in recessions, even a couple of houses we had were not very exciting, all because of they were in the best school districts.

I saw your comment in the other thread and linked out from there. Do you have a commute you or your spouse need to worry about? Often, distance from work can box us into choices that cause our wish list to be pressured. This is often the compromise that people take when confronted with such choices. An older home in the 'burbs can have good lot sizes and access to the river/lake trail but may be far removed from the job site (45mins+) and still require lots of renonation.

I had friends that sought out homes in the "golden triangle" of school boundaries just so their kids could go to the right series of elementary, middle and high schools. The prices were much higher, as you well know, especially with good proximity to the river. Their commute was ironically still large, despite being counter-commute , due to the bridge traffic.

Ideally it would be fair to divide our commutes equally, which is why we originally bought our current home. However, he works in a part of town in the areas of average/poor schools and doesn't want to move closer to his work.

If we move to the better school area, it will reduce my commute. If we move to the places with river access that are in our price range then our commutes don't change significantly, nor do schools or shopping.

This thread has been really helpful in getting me to think things through. He has said he'd be okay most anywhere (assuming it's not in a dangerous area) and doesn't mind if his commute increases.

We still have a couple years before high school, so I think I'm just going to prioritize school boundary over river access and wait for the right house/property. Some lots are .3 - .5 acres, which would make up for not having direct river access :-)

I'd see which ones would be the most useful. While XYZ would be awesome, ABC may be more impactful in a daily sense.

I have once heard the advice to live near the high school. Maybe because I have high school kids for the last four years and beyond, it has been great advice. Not just for the kids, but for us, who have to pick them up, or want to watch games, concerts, or parades. Getting on a bus is no big deal for my 4th grader, but my freshman in high school is mortified by the idea and walks home from school. We are only a mile away, so it is good.

I'd pick the area with good schools, because I think the homes are more likely to appreciate higher in that region. My second choice would be structural integrity of the house. You can always do additions, remodeling, etc. later. Hopefully, you will walk into a home and know it's the one!

Here is our theory of setting school district as our house hunting's highest priority:

Buying into best school district is not only for our children, our house will also be sought after by parents who put their children's education as their highest priority, and they will be willing to pay higher price for our house. Therefore neighborhoods in the best school districts become higher priced neighborhoods.

It is highly likely parents in higher priced neighborhood have higher incomes. Higher incomes are from jobs that require higher educational background. In general, parents with higher educational background would pay more attention to the schools their children attend. Their demand would keep schools' performance in check, hence best school districts would always stay as best school districts, and that continuously positively impact price of the neighborhoods in the best school district....so good cycle perpetually produces/repeats good cycle.

We always purchase houses in the best school district even after our children graduated from high school. So far, the theory has been working.

I can't say that I'm any closer to knowing, with certainty, which part of town I'd prefer. However, the reasons for choosing based on schools makes a lot of sense!

When we couldn't afford exactly what we wanted, which is pretty common, we focused on the people impacted and the amount of time each item was in use. For example, our daughters education is very important to us, so we didn't compromise on school district. However we only have house guests once a year, so we compromised on guest space.

Higher incomes are from jobs that require higher educational background. In general, parents with higher educational background would pay more attention to the schools their children attend. Their demand would keep schools' performance in check, hence best school districts would always stay as best school districts, and that continuously positively impact price of the neighborhoods in the best school district....so good cycle perpetually produces/repeats good cycle.

This is so true. I'm now out of HS well over 40 years and the school districts that were top rated in my area when I was in school, are still top rated and command premium prices to buy into.

If your kids are in 6th and 2nd grade right now, your school needs may change, boundaries may be changed, new high school may be built, etc. In my area, super competitive schools, there's actually a slight trend to transfer to the "lesser" schools to have a leg up when it's time for college admissions.

Just updating this thread: no we haven't moved, but we have been looking and looking and the most important things are starting to set themselves apart from the non-deal breakers. I'm thinking we're just not ready to take the plunge, seems like most of what we really admire is just a shade outside our budget.

We are in a position similar to yours. As in, we intend(ed) to buy around Oct '17 as well, and are/were trying to decide between locations. I'm sorry to hear that most of what you want is outside your budget, but good it's just "a shade". If we tried to get everything we wanted, we'd be at least $100,000 outside our budget, and that's a lot when one's budget is between 300-350k. How much longer do you think you need to save in order to buy where you want? And will the prices have increased by just that much by the time you save it?

We have a child, so school choices matter to us a lot, too. And we are thinking of having another. While we might be able to afford to send one to private school her whole schooling career, we can't do it for two. So we have to find a neighborhood where the public schools are decent. Also, we are black and when looking at the detailed stats, it isn't necessarily the case that the black students at the more highly rated schools are doing better than the black students at the lower rated schools. There are a lot of socio factors I don't want to go into, but in addition to just looking at what the ratings of the schools are, I also am looking at how the black kids are doing and what the demographics of the neighborhood are like; I don't want my kid to be marginalized, if I can help it.

Our choices fitting this criteria are a couple of neighborhoods. One is farther from where I currently work. But I wonder about choosing a home based on commute, in a world where people change jobs frequently now. Even though I've worked there for 7 years. The one farther out has better high schools. Both have pretty good elementary and middle schools. I think we have decided almost certainly to go with the one closer. Our child is only 3, and high school is far away. Who knows what will have changed by then. As a matter of fact, despite it generally being true that good schools stay good, that high school has declined pretty rapidly over the last 5 years for reasons I don't know. Its average SAT scores dropped something around 150 points. Nevertheless, I'm going to choose the home based on satisfying things we need now, like a shorter commute and a neighborhood whose demographics I like better, and worry about things like high school, which are over a decade away, later.

Just to share some info that might be useful-you can apply for financial aid, in most private schools. Years ago, you had to fill it and send to the school directly and they'd decide..now private schools participate in sort of a ..program? where the third party takes on itself to calculate everything they need from you(they need A LOT..it's a PITA to fill out every year), and to send recommendations to your school. Then your school gives(or doesn't give) aid for that specific school year, depending on their budget, etc.

We've put two kids through private schools (not quite done yet)..well it got worse and worse financially since the school got more and more expensive while our circumstances seemingly became better and better lol, but it still was a huge help and we wouldn't be able to do it without that aid, no way.

There is usually also some early bird discount, maybe sibling discount, stuff like that.

There are wonderful public schools I'm sure..my reasoning for the private school was very our family and circumstances-specific, rather than just wanting a school to be private. Actually, I didn't want it to be private. Had I stay at home and not drag my kids to the US back and forth-I wouldn't even think of private school. But we did drag them back and forth, so.

Again, not ALL private schools would give financial aid..but a very big number of them actually does.

I'm not sure how much people are aware of it since it doesn't come up in conversations between parents that much..:) "Hey, did you apply for an aid?"-you won't hear it unless you're more or less close friends. They're very discreet about it too. Schools, I mean.

mwedzi - one of my besties are just moving due to being able to get their daughters into a more diverse high school as well as certain programs that the high school offers within the same school district. They have a choice of excellent schools where they currently live, however the diversity is lacking as it is mainly white and although her children did well in elementary school as they got older it became clearer and clearer that they needed to see more diversity (not due to obvious racism, but just heritage and other things just not covered as much or completely forgotten which I personally don't think should be left out). They had transfers available within district so for middle school they focused more on science and went to a more diverse middle school that also had a special (you have to apply) science program which wasn't for their zoned school. When you get to high school I think there are a lot more factors that matter such as what the high school is offering. In her area there are high schools that are more geared to different types of studies and I think you are correct in not worrying about the high school at this point. You may also want to look into being able to transfer to other schools such as an out of district school. It is an option where I live. We would have to pay a fee, but nothing like the cost of a private school, however there is no transportation with that so we would have to make all pick-ups/drop-offs.

I would *kill*! for a newer home with mature landscaping, but newer/mature are not synonymous with one another. Go figure. ;)

yeah..that'd be buying from somebody like us lol..you gut the old house make everything new (the longer it goes the more you wish to burn the damn house down..)..then you've got a new house in an old shell with mature landscaping

Awww april, I would bet it's beautiful! I've always said if I had a 'park-like backyard' anything else could be fixed. Painting can be done in a day, but trees/bushes can take years to even reach halfway to maturity. A house sitting on a plot of land without greenery/flowers isn't very inviting, IMO.