gardensean, You are right. I should blame insufficient research. Mine and I accept full culpability. I am however, inclined to warn others who may be thinking of replacing windows that they should pursue every avenue available to them NOT to do what I did and get an insert. I should have figured out that an insert window would be unacceptable - to me. I'm sure you're comfortable with the idea. For my part, I would never get one again. There is no way that it could be as robust as a proper in-place installation. As per a previous poster, apparently the Canadians agree with me - and Loewen makes no such creature. This was not a DIY job. We hired a very good window installer to do the job and he just finished it today. How much? I don't feel it is any of your business, but if the window was about $800, the installation was close to one and a half times that. Expensive enough for you? He did a very good job - insulated, shimmed, sealed, screwed in etc. It looks very clean and like a very good installation. Unfortunately for me, (a) I can't stand the sight of the frame of the insert window which is unavoidable in this insert business, (b) I don't actually like the look of Marvin's thick and chunky frames and (c) I can't imagine he could have done a better job, but I have no delusions that the caulk he put in and that is [all that is] responsible for sealing the opening will last the lifetime of the window. Actually even as I say (c), I understand he did put in some additional protections to shore up and seal of the opening. However, that is not what these types of windows are designed for - he went over and above because he knew that we were having such acute misgivings about ordering the insert. And I stand by my assertion that insert windows are just a bad concept. I do wish I'd internalized the trade-offs before I ordered one in lieu of a "new construction". I also wish I'd ordered the Loewen (which ONLY makes new construction windows) instead of the Marvin.

Here's the deal with windows, and it's quite simple. If you will be owning your home for more than 7 years, you need to spend the money. Vinyl windows don't last, clad windows don't last, Andersen windows might last for 10-15 years. Marvin Infinity is a true lifetime window. I have never had one fail, and I have installed maybe a hundred of them throughout projects over the years. Either new construction or replacement. When I have used Milgaard, or Andersen, or Pella--which is to say, if I still own the building--I have had to replace them after 7-10 years. It stinks. So if you are on a budget, and see yourself selling the home within 5-7 years, certainly, do not spend the money on Marvin. But if this is your home, and you are in it for the long run, the cost is cheaper to buy Marvins, because you'll never have to mess with your windows ever again in your lifetime. Marvins cost twice as much. The installation costs the same. But if you are spending, say, $15,000 to replace your windows every 10 years, not to mention living through the headaches of maintenance and seeing problems, and dealing with customer service people, where is the savings in that? If you would just spend $30,000, you'll never have to think about it ever again. And living with gorgeous functionally perfect windows that look and feel like real windows--not the plastic junk--is really very nice. If you do sell, come resale time, buyers react subconsciously to nice windows. They do. If they are well informed enough to be conscious of what brand window you used, they might say, "Gee, if these people spent the money on Marvins, they probably really maintained the rest of the house." True that. So it's your call. There are great reasons to buy lower end Andersen and Milgaard windows. If you're selling your house and won't have to deal with them, who cares, go ahead and save your money. But if it's your home, and you see yourself there for a while, do the right thing.

what did you end up going with? I live in MN. And we are building in Eagle, Colorado. We are just now having to decide on windows and SP Aspen 2.0 are the architect and builders top choice. Interestingly, we have Marvins in our Minnesota home that was built 25 years ago and we've had to replace them all (wood double hung and casements). They were the highest end marvin available when we built. The sashes rotted. We did an addition 12 years ago, used the "new improved" clad exteriors in the casements and.... yep... still have rot issues after only 12 years. Suffice it to say, I'm starting to think nothing lasts more than 20 years, so why pay extra? Any others with this experience? (We, too, love the SP fit and finish and I think we'll be going with them -- though we also bid the Anderson 500 series and they came in slightly less than the SP's)

I was just at the Marvin Decarie store and learned that the installer does not belong to Marvin, although I was told it is the same installer they have used for more than 10 years which is why they are able to say the cost and why I'm able to make an appointment for installation with the store. But, I've just learned, there'd be a seperate bill from the installer of 600 installation + 75 delivery + tax. Also, I may have to change the lintil for that 1 bedroom window. They said a new window can only be installed with a satisfactory lintil, and this they said can only be installed by a mason. They estimate that a mason they'd refer me to would cost $100/hour x 5 to 8 hours + scaffold + materials + tax. I must've looked quite upset on my out of the showroom because a salesman stopped me and said that I should take a closeup picture to show the store and they may visit to see if it's needed. So, a new lintil (which I hope I don't need) installed is about $1200 for my 3rd floor window. The salesman showed me there's a good distance between outside air and the layer of wood the extruded aluminum covers. He alleged that he has never heard of any degree of rot under the aluminum clad exterior. That said, he was clear that Marvin's warranty does not cover ANY wood rot or ANY wood deterioration.