Problems With Carrier: Heat Pump failure - unit less than 2 years old
Charles Smith
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
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20+ year-old heat pump finally dies, but in could be worse
Comments (5)Hello, You did very good in keeping the condenser for 20 years. It sounds like your system was installed correctly and did not work too hard during the hot months. This is important in helping equipment last longer. Todays Hype by highly advertized brands comes with a hidden cost. Lower quality equipment. Peace of mind may dictate you replacing the system now, but keep an open mind towards repair. IMO, the older equipment from the early 1980's is probably a better machine because this was before all of the cheapening of parts. Capacitors are not oil filled, which means they have a shorter life. Condenser motors are not built as well. Stuff that was originally designed for 20 years is now lasting 5-10 years. And needs repair every 2 years or so. Electronics in the system is expensive to repair. Once again IMO the older HVAC is less efficient but cheaper to operate. Newer equipment, to maintain the quoted ratings, requires larger line sets. Although fluid mechanics design has not changed in a hundred years, the newer systems need larger lines. What this means is the lines can deliver more fluid to the evaporator, and produce more cooling. Not a larger evaporator but more flow. This is a cost vs performance decision made by marketing. Shifting part of the cost of efficiency to the consumer installation rather than larger coil area and basic equipment costs. Kinda cheating on the price quoted to consumers. TRANE and other tier 1 companies are following in MAYTAG's footsteps in designing for shorter equipment life. Maytag eventally was forced to sell. They could not keep up with warrantee repairs. Typical marketing is still claiming 20 year life to explain the payback, but in reality the calculations are skewed. Rheem, York, ICP and all of the other second tier level manufacturers probably produce equipment closer to what TRANE claims they offer, but with a lower cost. Rheem has really cornered the gas modulating furnace market. The AC side is easily serviced. The units look good. Traditionally Goodman was a product that had zero quality control. Many units I installed in the 1980-1990's had a small problem. Never the same problem, but always a problem. This added time to installations. Very frusterating on a hot summer day. Goodman is the #2 manufacturer of HVAC in America. Goodman has much better Quality control today. One recent discussion was about how Goodman could meet 13 SEER without a TXV valve. No other company regularly does this. This means fewer mechanical parts that will go bad on a hot day. This $20 OEM cost part equates to about $100 less to the consumer. Adding a TXV valve increases AC efficiency and Goodman sells the upgrade part. The size of the condenser coil is larger than normal which allows this exceptionally good design. Kinda neat. I had a repair last summer on a air handler made by a small company in Dallas. 'First company" The unit did not have a schematic so I called them, hoping to get some help. They not only had a schematic, but it was tthe same design and even wire colors for more than 20 years. I was impressed. Then they told me they made product for York. I yawned on that claim. They then told ne they were a 100 million dollar company. This is not a billion dollar business, but something to be proud of. I would highly recommend thier airhandlers. They also make several models that also have hydronic and Freon coils built into the air handler, along with strip heat. The prices are very reasonable. This can allow preheating of hot water or hydronic floor heat. This is a sleeper product. The heating of floors in your climate area is very popular. Very neat IMO....See MoreCarrier Electric Heat Pump Quote and Options
Comments (8)Thanks for the response. I'll try to address each point (let me know if I skip anything). A local business (Lexington, KY) provided the quote. Monthie Mechanical. I do have the load calculation on-hand. It was designed around: Summer: 72F Indoor / 95F Outdoor Winter: 68F Indoor / 8F Outdoor RH%: 30 Grains The Heat Pump model is: 25HNH542A003 The Air Handler model is: FV4CNF005T00 Technically the Manual J math came out to 3.69 tons. They recommended dropping to 3.5 tons vs going oversized with 4 tons. The quote is for a 20 KW strip model: WKFCEH3301C20 The thermostat in the quote is "TP-PHP". It looks like that's the "Edge" you're referring to? The quote also includes a new drip pan (30x60), 30AMP circuit panel addition, and new concrete Condenser pads for the Heat Pump. The current supply is capable of 1500 CFM, but the current two return are only capable of 1200 CFM. The plan is to either enlarge one of the two current returns or add an additional third return to bring the return CFM up to 1500 CFM. Let me know if you need any more info. :)...See MoreDown to Final 2 Heat Pump Bids - Lennox vs. Bryant/Carrier
Comments (4)Wow, you gentlemen respond very quickly. Thanks for that. And apparently, I'm not at my sharpest in the middle of the night. That power rate was incorrect. I only provided the fuel charge. Adding all the pieces together comes to $0.11579 (.0782 summer rate, .00144 transmission rate, and .03615 fuel charge). As for the other questions/comments: * I did worry about the lineset diameter and confirmed for the length, turns, and elevation change online for the Lennox. It won't even have a 1% drop in efficiency. The Bryant salesman with 17 years experience told me the lineset works. All the contractors told me the lineset works for a 2 ton but not a 3 ton. Additionally, replacing the lineset adds roughly $1,000 to each bid. * Only one of the contractors specified a 3 ton unit and there expected the unit to always run in the low speed except during extreme circumstances. * The Bryant does come with the Evolution controller t-stat. * Demand defrost - I couldn't find any mention of this for the Lennox online, so I will pose the question to the contractor. I did find this text on the Bryan installation instructions -> "The control board accumulates compressor run time. As theaccumulated run time approaches the selected defrost interval time, the control board monitors the coil temperature sensor for a defrost demand. If a defrost demand exists, a defrost cycle will be initiated at the end of the selected time interval. A defrost demand exists when the coil temperature is at or below 32_F (0_C) for 4 minutes during the interval." * I will ask about the staged heat strips. Austin generally only has 24 hours or less below freezing and maybe two months where heating is used. * Tigerdunes - what do you mean when you say the prices are "very frisky"? * We certainly are having more and more hot summers. It struck me that at least a couple of the contractors were eager for the business as they were ready to do the work within a day or two. How over priced do you think these prices are for premium equipment? I am leaning toward the Lennox due to the 10 year warranty for labor and the Internet enabled thermostat that allows me to adjust it from my iPhone when I realize we are out of the house for a while. Additionally, the salesman was more pleasant to my wife and helpful to me without the constant adjustments in what he is selling me. Thanks again for all the advice. It is invaluable in making sure I get my money's worth. Regards, Trevor in Austin...See MoreWhich is best - Lennox/Trane/Carrier Furnace with AC or Heat pump
Comments (2)I agree, With a 2 stage system, there won't be much difference between the 2. I would suggest the NATE dealer if for no other reason than they take the time to be educated and really, the installing dealer makes a big difference in the satisfactory outcome. They will have more resources to fall back on if they run into a question on your job, and they will also generally have a more thorough understanding of the little things about unit start up and such that can make a big difference in the long term performance of the system. This is not to say that the other sources you have mentioned may not be fine. It is just my opinion that dealers who care enough to take continuing classes and training will probably care enough to satisfy you better. As to heatpump vs AC. The advantage of a good heatpump with a low ambient control is that you can run it for heat when the outdoor temperature is around 30 or higher. A good Thermostat will automatically switch your system to furnace from heatpump based on the outdoor temperature. You are insightful enough to realize that is it usually either cool and mild, or really cold where you are. That is why the heatpump is such a good fit....See Moremalba2366
7 years agoklem1
7 years agoAustin Air Companie
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoklem1
7 years agoAustin Air Companie
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoklem1
7 years agoAustin Air Companie
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoCharles Smith
7 years agoAustin Air Companie
7 years agoHU-70959453
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