20+ year-old heat pump finally dies, but in could be worse

17 years ago

My 20+ year-old original, 3-ton, 7 SEER, Trane Executive Weathertron heat pump finally bit the dust last night. I will have someone come out and look at the unit and tell me what happened, but I don't think that I will attempt a repair. I am trying to be optimistic; at least it didn't die in the middle of the hot and humid Baltimore summer. I have been in the house (1700 square-foot split-foyer built in 1986) for 5+ years and never had any trouble with the unit. I changed filters religiously every month and cleaned the inside coil once per year.

I am currently running on emergency heat, and I'm trying to minimize run time on the electrical strips as I understand that resistance heat is the most expensive source of heat. I have a masonry fireplace w/insert in my below-grade family room and 2 cords of seasoned firewood to burn. Last night it was 23 degrees outside, and I had the insert on full blast. As long as it ran, it kept the family room at 68/69 and the upstairs at 66.

I have been reading this HVAC forum for about a year and I post when I feel that I can contribute something. I have learned a lot on this forum and I appreciate the info from both the pros and DIYers. I will get at least 3 bids from contractors. I will keep-it-simple, as Bob Brown likes to say. I don't need variable speed fans or muti-stage compressors. I want a basic, dependable, work-horse unit. I am leaning towards a 13-SEER, R-22, American Standard made by Trane. I am flexible on this choice and I will do my homework before I make my decision.

I would like to use the existing line set as this would save me a lot of dry wall repair. Opinions on using the old line set? Opinions in general?

Thanx.

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Comments (5)

tigerdunes
17 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Gary

Trane/AmStd make the best heat pumps but have poor controls. Carrier/Bryant with their Infinity/Evolution models have the best overall system with their sophisticated controls.

Regardless of the type refrigerant for new model, I strongly recommend you replace line set unless the installation obstacles are too severe and/or too expensive. If you elect to keep old line set, then definitely have it flushed/cleaned and stay with R-22.

I would definitely include a matching var speed air handler-a mistake if you don't.

As far as Trane/AmStd models, both the XL14i and Heritage 14 are solid single stg workhorses.

IMO
bob_brown
17 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Hello,
You did very good in keeping the condenser for 20 years. It sounds like your system was installed correctly and did not work too hard during the hot months. This is important in helping equipment last longer.

Todays Hype by highly advertized brands comes with a hidden cost. Lower quality equipment. Peace of mind may dictate you replacing the system now, but keep an open mind towards repair. IMO, the older equipment from the early 1980's is probably a better machine because this was before all of the cheapening of parts. Capacitors are not oil filled, which means they have a shorter life. Condenser motors are not built as well. Stuff that was originally designed for 20 years is now lasting 5-10 years. And needs repair every 2 years or so. Electronics in the system is expensive to repair. Once again IMO the older HVAC is less efficient but cheaper to operate. Newer equipment, to maintain the quoted ratings, requires larger line sets. Although fluid mechanics design has not changed in a hundred years, the newer systems need larger lines. What this means is the lines can deliver more fluid to the evaporator, and produce more cooling. Not a larger evaporator but more flow. This is a cost vs performance decision made by marketing. Shifting part of the cost of efficiency to the consumer installation rather than larger coil area and basic equipment costs. Kinda cheating on the price quoted to consumers.

TRANE and other tier 1 companies are following in MAYTAG's footsteps in designing for shorter equipment life. Maytag eventally was forced to sell. They could not keep up with warrantee repairs. Typical marketing is still claiming 20 year life to explain the payback, but in reality the calculations are skewed.

Rheem, York, ICP and all of the other second tier level manufacturers probably produce equipment closer to what TRANE claims they offer, but with a lower cost. Rheem has really cornered the gas modulating furnace market. The AC side is easily serviced. The units look good.

Traditionally Goodman was a product that had zero quality control. Many units I installed in the 1980-1990's had a small problem. Never the same problem, but always a problem. This added time to installations. Very frusterating on a hot summer day. Goodman is the #2 manufacturer of HVAC in America. Goodman has much better Quality control today.

One recent discussion was about how Goodman could meet 13 SEER without a TXV valve. No other company regularly does this. This means fewer mechanical parts that will go bad on a hot day. This $20 OEM cost part equates to about $100 less to the consumer. Adding a TXV valve increases AC efficiency and Goodman sells the upgrade part. The size of the condenser coil is larger than normal which allows this exceptionally good design. Kinda neat.

I had a repair last summer on a air handler made by a small company in Dallas. 'First company" The unit did not have a schematic so I called them, hoping to get some help. They not only had a schematic, but it was tthe same design and even wire colors for more than 20 years. I was impressed. Then they told me they made product for York. I yawned on that claim. They then told ne they were a 100 million dollar company. This is not a billion dollar business, but something to be proud of. I would highly recommend thier airhandlers.

They also make several models that also have hydronic and Freon coils built into the air handler, along with strip heat. The prices are very reasonable. This can allow preheating of hot water or hydronic floor heat. This is a sleeper product. The heating of floors in your climate area is very popular. Very neat IMO.
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saltcedar
17 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Link for FirstCompany

Here is a link that might be useful: Firstco
don21
17 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
It did you a big favor by not lasting for another day ;-)

If I was paying to run a 7 SEER heat pump, it wouldn't have had a chance to 'die' on it's own - I would have replaced it 4 or 5 years ago

Don
garyg
Original Author
17 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Hold the phone.

When I moved the selector from "emergency heat" to "heat" to test out the system and find out what's wrong, the compressor fired up. The tech figured that the internal compressor overload was tripped when a power interuption occurred during a start-up. I figured that the compressor was done because it wasn't running, but both outside and inside fans were running. When I changed over to emergency heat, I rested the compressor and it re-set itself. Output temp on the heat pump was 89 degrees at 31 outside and 65 inside, the strips added another 20+ degrees.

There was no charge since the tech worked for a property services company where the wife is employed. I gave the guy $50 and thanked him for his help.

I realize that I am still on borrowed time, but hey, the 20 year-old bugger is still running. I may get another day, week, or year out of it so I'll take what I can get and be glad for it.

I will still get a few quotes for when the time eventually comes. I called an American Standard distributer and got a price of $3500, parts only, for a Heritage 13 including air handler.

Don 21: It will take 10 years to re-coup the $$ saved in an average electrical bill to justify a $4k purchase for a new more efficient heat pump. Who says that the new $4k system won't break down during the 10 year re-coup period and cost even more money? My current system has given me zero trouble since I have had the house for 5+ years. I will replace it when it dies - there is no euthanasia for HVAC in my house.

20+ year-old heat pump finally dies, but in could be worse

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tigerdunes

bob_brown

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20+ year-old heat pump finally dies, but in could be worse

Comments (5)

tigerdunes

bob_brown

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saltcedar

don21

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