Funny, George, Larsi and I were just talking about this yesterday. Yes, I have pre-wash on the Little Giant (actually called pre-wash, though I believe called "heavy soil" on other models). It fills with cold water, heats to optimal enzyme temperatures (can be changed in the settings, but somewhere between 100F and 115F I believe), then drains. Now that I'm typing this I can't remember if it spins (or pulse spins) before then filling with the main wash water.

I use this rarely but, like you, am glad to have it when I do. I find it especially useful on white loads with visible soil still on the articles (who wants to near-boil wash their clothes in residual dirt?) or my washcloth loads to rinse out residual bar soap.

I don't have a prewash on my Duet, I was only slightly disappointed, since I do often prewash, I've worked around it though...I was using quick wash but once I found if I choose spin/drain and extra rinse with cool water it works great. Choosing this uses more water, and has a much much longer and agressive rinse.

I'm probably not as disappointed as some may be not having a dedicated prewash since this is my first FL and I never experienced it before.

On my Miele 3033 it's called heavy soil, on my older 1918, it's called pre-wash. On the 3033 it does spin briefly following the re-wash, I believe. I don't know on the 1918.

I was using pre-wash every chance I got, unless the cycle (3033) didn't have the option. Then Mamap, said something the other day about only needing it on visably soils clothes. I think she threw an lol in there. So I Lol'd and stopped using it on every load, lol. It has freed me up with the 1918, because it's dispenser can't take liquids, so I'm stuck with one liquid dispense into the drum, eliminating pre-wash option when I use liquids.

That explanation about prewashes was v helpful. I prewash all my children's cotton playclothes and you can bet it comes out grey water every time. The main wash is on warm. Good to know I'm not wasting water with the double washing!

Thanks mamap. Great explanation. I'll remember it this time ;)

My new Electrolux, the 517, has a stainlifter cycle. It circulates the detergent and any stain additive for 20 minutes before it begins the regular washing cycle. I haven't had anything really dirty yet, but probably will in the fall when we get outside to work again.

I think it all depends what the interpretation of pre wash is. In the days gone past a pre wash was nothing more than a second wash, second suds, whatever you wanted to call it. Usually at the same temperature as the main wash. It really did little in the way of optimal stain removal.

Todays modern pre wash is really designed for flushing and stain treatment using cooler temperatures, usually cold in most machines, followed by a drain and spin before the main wash.

With the much longer wash times in modern machines, and profile heating, the need for a double wash has long been extinct. The results are considerably better with the new alogorhytym.

@rpsinfoman...

But, if you have a really filthy load (say caked in dirt/mud). Is a long wash in the same dirty water going to get your load clean over a Pre-Wash that will pretty much loosen and flush away superficial dirt/grime.?

Can I answer...can I, can I???? LOL.

No a single wash on heavy soils is not enough.

Ok I'll shut up now..I'm at hospital and just peeking I .

Rpsinforman I think that they have gone "extinct" because most of us no longer work on the farm anymore and while our clothes may stink they are seldom actually coated in dirt. I believe the prewash (and maybe an extra rinse or two) is (are) absolutely essential when you've got dirt hanging off your clothes...not just stench and body oils.

George...Yeah, Alex and I were talking about this very recently! Every Miele machine I have had since the 1990's has had a pre-wash (and yes, stupidly re-named Heavy Soil for a while, even though the manual still said prewash!!).

I can count the times I have used a prewash on my hands in almost 20 years! I like that it is there, but for me it is 100% not a deal breaker.

I would honestly like my Miele machine to tumble for more than 30 mins. after the final spin. Many machines allow up to 8 hours. I'd be cool with 1-2 hours. Not often, but there are times when I cannot get the wash into the dryer immediately, and I'd love the extra end of spin tumble time to keep items fluffy, aid in drying, keep wrinkles at bay and keep the machine and items fresh.

Totally right, Larsi. Electrolux (and even Samsung) totally pummel Miele in this category. Why the "anti-crease" is so short, after both the wash and dry, is beyond me. It would take very little programming and energy to make these last 8+ hours. I really like the way Samsung (and I think Lux?) continue to tumble in cool air following the dry cycle. Maybe it's not great on clothes to let them tumble that long frequently, but what a lifesaver when you don't make it back in time.

Additionally few machines of the past lacked the ability to heat water to temperatures achieved today. I would think you would get more utility out of todays pre-wash, than a traditional double wash. If that is case, you can always run two washes, although with manual intervention. IMHO 2 plus hours in temperatures exceeding 150F should clean all but the most soiled clothing.

However, I do understand the two wash concept. Consequently few consumers would really benefit from such a feature. With increasing energy compliance, I am sure manufacturers had to make some changes.

Prewash wasn't a cycle I ever used, even with the TL. I either soak the load or run a double wash. My old Whirlpool had a cycle (can't remember it's name) but you added twice the regular amount of detergent and it ran a really, really HD cycle with extra rinses. I used it a lot for my MIL loads and bedding. When first married, we used laundromats so got used to using stain removers and spray pre-wash. With the old TL's, though, you could run the water and soap into the tub then shut off the agitator for whatever time you wanted. I usually poured bleach in there, let it agitate a little, then stopped the cycle. I don't wash the same kind of loads anymore (Thank you, Lord) so I didn't think about the issue 'til we came back last week with sweat, sand and unknown nasties. My new Duets did just as great with HD, hot, steam, bleach, extra rinse, etc. I didn't have to time anything, either.

"My old Whirlpool had a cycle (can't remember it's name) but you added
twice the regular amount of detergent and it ran a really, really HD
cycle with extra rinses."

Various Whirlpool (and some KitchenAid) toploader models since the 1960s featured a Super Wash cycle (and Super Wash Permanent Press on top-of-line machines). It ran a short prewash, partial drain, *very* brief soak, then refilled and proceeded into the Normal/Regular (or Permanent Press) cycle. There were no extra rinses beyond what the Normal or Perm Press cycle normally performed (although a *very few* later models did offer an extra rinse option). The reason for doubling the detergent dosage at the start is the partial drain and refill.

If you have normally soiled clothes with a stained garment..than treat the single garment prior to going into the wash.

A prewash is really only needed if the clothes are soiled enough that it changes the water to look soiled. Or for loads of heavily soiled, sweat infused work out clothes.

Otherwise the clothes just tumble around in brown water or water loaded in sweat....no amount of hot water will change that.

I prewash more in the summer, kids dirty play clothes, kids white socks in the rock garden, gardening clothes. Things that have heavy soils. But for normal soiling day to day clothes probably don't need a prewash.

@georgect - if the level of soil is such that you describe, you need a little manual intravention. Cold/Warm flush/pre wash followed by a short main wash. Restart machine run cycle of your choice being mindful detergent dose will be half what is normally used. You will have significant carry over from the first wash which could create over sudsing. I would also use a healthy dose of STPP in the first wash to keep the crud in suspension and redepositing.

Flush Cold

First Suds Hot

Second Suds Hot

Rinse Cold

Rinse Cold

Rinse Cold

Extract

Dadoes, I don't remember what model Whirlpool TL I had but your description sounds right. There were 2 rinses standard on it and I though it had an extra rinse option but maybe I'm confusing my Whirlpools. I had that one 17 years and the next one about 10. They all fit my needs at the times I had them. Not as many bells and whistles as I like in my old age :).

Whirlpool never had two rinses as standard .... unless you count the sprays during the first spin, or the cool down on the Permanent Press cycle as a rinse.

1/3 of my laundry fit into the category of needing a prewash as described by several posters above. DH is a farmer, as many know. He works cattle, machinery, crops, and general farmstead upkeep. I absolutely use the pre-wash every load of DH work clothes. I have to resist the temptation to wash his clothes above 140f. Tempted, but I am afraid of damaging the clothing over the long haul. He uses his clothes until they are thread bare. We look for cheap sales shirts with snaps, and blue jeans, at the farm stores throughout the year. Eventually things need to get thrown out. He is very conservative with use of everything. My laundry was so much cleaner when I started using the soak on my old Maytag, then followed with the cycle completed, followed by another complete cycle. Now with the used Miele 1918 that I have in the basement I love the pre-wash feature. I was using it on about 100% of all my wash until last week when Mamap explained to me that it isn't really needed on all loads. I just thought everyone used prewash if they had the option, lol. But even with the 100% use of prewash on my office clothes, they are no worse for the ware, they are still looking 100% good :) Hope you all understand this rambling.

This is very interesting. I have an old Malber 24 that does have a pre-wash. I have never tried the pre-wash. I am going to put together a load of whites, towels and socks that are a little grubby and try the pre-wash. I'm not sure how the pre-wash works. I will look on line for the operation manual .

My prewash on the Miele want me to split the detergent between the two compartments for the soap. The prewash compartment gets about 1/3 of the amount, and the main wash gets the remainder 2/3. Or it is 1/4 and 3/4. I use the 1/3 to 2/3 division. It works for me. The prewash doesn't rinse so there is residual detergent left in the clothing, following the drain and spin. keep us posted @hmorton.

Thank you Enduring. Since I am home recovering from foot surgery and going a little stir crazy I will play over the next few days. I just read the very limited manual and it said to use the pre-wash for items that just need freshing. Then it said if you use pre-wash make sure to put detergent in the dispenser. Gee I think a little more info would be helpful. Tomorrow I will do a load and see what happens.

As I recall, the ole Whirlpool Super Wash was an 18 minute wash. It added 4 extra minutes to the otherwise Heavy 14 min cycle. There was never a second deep rinse by default. Now other newer variations of Whirlpool had an actual 10 minute pre wash at the same temperature that was selected for the main wash, followed by a drain and spin before the main wash. Matter of fact the Kenmore 90 series worked in that fashion.

Super Wash gave a choice of 6, 4, or 2 mins extra wash. 2 min soak. Partial drain & brief pause. Proceed into Normal (or Perm Press). Circa 1967 example:

I have a 1996 KitchenAid and 2003 Whirlpool with Extra Wash, plus a separate Soak/Prewash (soak, prewash, drain/spin, off).Here's a 1999 Kenmore 90 with separate Soak (fill, agitate 4 mins, off without drain/spin, must be reset to do that) and separate Prewash (4 or 2 min wash, drain, spin, off).

My Whirlpool was purchased in or about August 1991. It did have two rinses as I recall, with a spin in between and after. Possibly only on my regularly used cycle, though. You had to wait to add the FS to the last rinse. It sounded different than the first rinse and ran longer. Whereas the washer had dials and knobs, the dryer was a step above with push buttons and dials. I needed the permanent press cycle that allowed the dryer to continue tumbling for a while after the load was dry - whatever it was called. At that time, we were both working and had lots or dress shirts, mostly permanent press. I've been posting on GW so long, maybe I actually listed a model number in some long-ago post. I'll pull up my posting history and check.

Reference to the vintage belt-drive machines from the 1950s to mid 1980s, Whirlpool never had a 2nd rinse option (meaning fill, agitate, drain, spin) until the electronic control model in 1978, and it was exclusive on those top-of-line machines. However, many Whirlpool-built Kenmore belt-drive machines did have a 2nd rinse option (only on the Normal cycle) from the 1960s forward.

A 2nd Rinse option was added on some direct-drive Whirlpool-branded models in the late 1980s or early 1990s, so it's reasonable for your 1991 model. However, it was an option via a selector switch on the console. Yours would have always run the 2nd Rinse on that cycle if you always kept the switch set to On. Kenmore direct-drive models, of course, had the 2nd Rinse option much earlier in production following from the belt-drive machines.

With Little Giant Cottons program prewash taking only 6 minutes at default setting, and no water shortage around here, I have a low bar for using prewash. For example, in the summer I walk around the house and garage, and sometimes even the driveway, in my socks. So they're dirty. I usually don't put detergent in the prewash compartment, so I'm using it as a prerinse.

The Little Giant also has a prerinse option on the Cottons programs. It has to be set in the supervisor menu, and all Cottons washes do a prerinse once it's set. I tried it once, and it didn't spin after the prerinse, unlike prewash which does a short spin.

Have to also mention the Sluice programs, which do two very deep prerinses. But they have only two temperature choices, very hot and really very hot. Sluice has been discussed here before.

Prewash on the Little Giant has one "side effect" that I've found useful. It works around the load sensing problem that occurs when you stuff the drum very full (talking about Cottons programs here, again). The load can't tumble freely and absorb water quickly, so the machine decides in a couple of minutes that it's a small load, and cuts a little time off the wash and first rinse. It still keeps adding water as the load absorbs it, so the load ends up saturated, but you lose those few minutes of washing and first rinse. When I use prewash, the machine still makes the decision to shorten the program time, as seen by a drop in the time-remaining number, a couple of minutes into the prewash. But at the end of the prewash it restores the program to its original time.

Just did my first pre-wash in my old 11 year old Malber. And I think it will be my last. It filled with the temp I selected (hot) for the main wash tumbled for 1 minute. Soaked for 1 minute, tumbled once, soaked for another minute, tumbled twice, drained and then stopped. I had to physically move the timer to the main wash. I often stop the wash and let it sit or turn the manual dial back to the beginning to get more wash time. I wonder why they even bothered putting this feature on the machine.

A prewash should always be done using cool water in order to not set stains

Yes MamaP I remember you saying that. I was just trying out my machine to see what it did. Now I know that the pre-wash is really just a very short wash soak with no rinse and does not seamlessly merge with the wash cycle. If I need a pre-wash I will use the wash cycle on warm which is probably what you would call cool. What temp do you call cool?

I don't know the temp but its a step up from cold.HAHA....cold is fine also for prewash as long as its not cold tap in the dead of winter in a bitterly cold area.

Your prewash doesn't sound to bad, remember its really only to get some of the surface soils off and or break stains. and generally there's no rinse between prewash and wash which is why I now use drain/spin with added rinse as my prewash. I was using quick wash but than I had 2 default rinses, that I didn't need unless I caught it in time and ended the program. I also only use a tiny amount of detergent, usually Sears brand for the preW. As a bit of detergent will remain in the clothes.