Could you please show us the actual problem as it is now? You need to show the WHOLE scene including space at the ends and foreground, showing how it relates to other important features of the yard (such as pool). Since I have no picture of it in my mind, I don't have a suggestion of where you should photograph it from, but you need to be close enough so that we can make out what it is and what's there, and far enough from it that you can capture the bulk of it in a way that can be understood. A bunch of disparate, random too close shots are worthless. You need to pick a more or less central view point from which you can see the bulk of the subject and take ALL the pictures from that one-and-only spot. Simply pivot the camera taking overlapping shots in order to get it all. You'll probably be panning 180* in order to include space at each end of the scene.

Sure I will take pics when I get out of work. It is basically all bare - just a bunch of mud and a wood fence. But I'll post pics later!

If any of the retaining wall is in, be sure to feature it in the pics.

Last post: here is the existing deck/hot tub/ garden all there when we moved in. Eventually I want to put in raised beds instead of the garden (phase 3?).
I was trying to go for a natural, craftsman style yard (new shed eventually will have a pergola), with all native plants or edibles.

Well, i didn't get any advice but i thinking writing it all out helped me make a decision. I am NOT getting that bed. I am going to ask the landscaper to cut it from 8' wide down to 4' wide. Aside from the ridiculous expense and impracticality, I think an 8' wide flower bed in the middle of my relatively small yard would be totally overwhelming. If he doesn't want to do it, I'm taking my business elsewhere. I'm going to sleep on it tonight, but that's where I stand as of now.

I'm a little confused about where the garden bed in question would go - is it between the pool and the yard? In other words, is the plan to build a retaining wall next to the pool (on the yard side) and the garden goes between the wall and the pool?

It seems to me it's your yard and your money and you should decide, not be pressured to do something you're not sure about by the designer and landscaper. If I were you, I might flip their suggestion, putting grass where this flower bed is supposed to go and spending your budget on planting the areas along the fence (and on building the wall, if you decide you need/want one). I think it would give the yard overall a more finished look to have the borders planted. Then you can put in the garden along the pool later, if you decide you want to. Doing it in stages would also allow you to scale back if you find it's becoming too much to take care of.

I love your plan to have edibles mixed in. I'm sure it will be lovely when it's done.

As a gardener, I am baffled by some of the plants chosen for that bed around the pool. Ascelpias syriaca is common milkweed, a plant for monarchs, but it suckers and spreads wildly, especially in a mulched garden situation, and the fuzzy white seedheads will float into the pool. Asclepias verticillata seeds will do the same thing, and both will self seed all over. These are plants for a naturalized, meadow type garden, not for a bed in a small yard near a pool. Also, Ruellia humilis is a plant that "throws" its seed; years and years after making the mistake of planting one, I am still trying to dig out seedlings that appear everywhere. And they are deep rooted and not easy to get out. I especially hate it when they are deep inside a big shrub.

The design is a very poor one for your situation where only well behaved plants should have been chosen--some grasses, some small shrubs (perhaps spireas) and the Rudbeckias if you like that deep gold color, which I don't. (Nor do I think it looks particularly good with white flowers (the Echinacea 'Powwow white').

I like the idea of a broad, exuberant bed and think it would be a feature you would come to love gazing upon - from the house windows, deck, and the pool itself. I will leave the question of the specific plants to the experts here, but suspect that much of the plan can be easily executed by you and over time. Start with a load of free wood chips for mulch. Marco Stufano of Wave Hill fame (now Untermeyer garden in Yonkers, equally promising) was a master at creating fabulous gardens for a song. The first year he spent something like $5 on seeds to make the first border. Every year thereafter he made a $5 bed, and it was always a show stopper. A lot of the plants in your design spread so rapidly. You could start with one echinacea and have enough the next year yourself.. Enjoy your new house, pool and project. It will be great!

Thanks everyone, your comments just made me more certain I made the right decision! To answer a few questions - yes, the bed is going next to the slide. I do have a kid - which is another reason why I thought it was crazy to put in an expensive bed! I'm sure he and his friends will splash on it and probably hit beach balls into it, etc etc.

It is also really helpful to hear about the crazy plant choices - I certainly don't want milkweed seeds in the pool!

Forgot to tell you lovely pool! If it is as hot there as it is here, I'm sure you are enjoying it.

I think you're making the right decisions here. It's kind of frustrating that the designer responded to your request to minimize the bed with insistence that it would ruin the design. If your suggestion isn't feasible, they ought to at least work with you to make sure the final design works for your situation. As much as I think the bed would be gorgeous in the beginning, if it's impractical for you to keep it looking that way it doesn't do you much good.

I'm also surprised by the price for just plants, compost, and mulch. The plant price can certainly add up but that seems rather outrageous to me. I suspect that most of the price is coming from the labor cost associated with them doing the work. An obvious cost-cutter is to put it in yourself. Of course, that might not be practical in your case but it might be something to consider.

I see nothing that couldn't be handled by slope, since you have the space, if you wanted it to be that way. That is not to say, however, that a well laid out wall couldn't be nicer, as it allows for more level spaces. It's up to you and what you wish to pay for. Insofar as the proposed planting goes, I'm not a fan of all the plant stripes that are being created, even if they are not straight line stripes. Too much for me and I agree with some of the other posters, that some of the plants will be problem plants. Milkweed seed all over the place? Ugh! Not to say you couldn't have some planting near the pool (I like the ornamental grasses, too, here, and things that look tropical or colorful) but I like the general idea of developing the perimeter of the yard for privacy and lushness and having the pool be, more or less, in a clearing.

In the other part of the yard, I dislike the bird bath in the lawn. It would be better to place it in the bed and have groundcover below ... rather than mowing into that little loop. How is that Forsythia going to work out being right at the edge? Look at a mature one and guess! I love them where they can grow but they are one of the least favorite, homely looking plants where they must be cut in order to be kept in a small space.

I have a few comments.

First, never ask a landscape designer a question that, if answered, would have the perceived effect of diminishing what the designer had envisioned. Of course the design as drawn is the only perfect design for you!

Now if you want to find out how much of a moronic idiot the first designer was, ask another. Of course, then the only perfect design is the one THAT designer drew.

And at the end of the day, after having worked with a few thousand landscape designers/architects...I can count on the fingers of one hand the ones I'd actually let look at a project of mine. And have fingers left over.

About price...

May I first ask a question? How expensive was the pool? You're quibbling over how much, when ultimately the point of the landscape bed is the retaining wall, which is to protect your investment in the pool?

Yes, I'm a landscaper. Yes, I get frustrated by how people perceive landscaping value. And emphatically yes, I get outraged when people pay for a plan that does nothing for them.

Ever hear the story of the architect who was noted for planning buildings that had sidewalks that were perfectly planned for pedestrian use? Not one of his buildings ever had little dirt paths in the corners where people had left the sidewalk to walk across the grass. Well, he got hired for a prestigious project, in part for his acumen in placing sidewalks. Building was finished, no sidewalks. No problem, the building owners had confidence in the reputation of the person they had hired. Months go by, no sidewalks. Finally, the building owners can't deal with it anymore. They call the architect to the site and demand he deliver the perfectly placed sidewalks that are so much a signature of his projects.

The architect looks around and says, you see where the people are walking? Put your sidewalks there.

Here's my takeaway from what you have described, and from what I can glean form the photos you have posted:

You have a plan. You have no idea of how the space you have is actually going to be used, much less of how to plan around that space. Well planned, your landscaping will foster greater use of your entire property. Unfortunately, too many "landscape designers" are more enamored of being designers (flip your hair and say it nasally when you say this), than of actually providing service and value to their customers. Well planned, you could spend 10 times 3,000...and think it was a value. Based on what I see from what you have presented...not even worth the current estimate.

Spacing. I bet I can cut a nice % of the price off the top, just by revisiting spacing. I don't see a scale visible, but I'm going by what I can see, and what I know of designers. If a plant gets to be 3' wide... much space do you give it? Double check your plan and do some math.

There is nothing wrong with waiting. Or with doing this in stages. If the retaining wall is all you want to do, do it. If all you want is grass, do it. Don't cut the project scope in half (8'wide bed becomes 4') just because you want a smaller bill. A smaller bill for a bad project plan is still money thrown away.

So let me get this part of this straight...

you had a shed that was removed. How and why is not important. the fact you have a place for a shed, and that is it essentially behind the proposed landscape bed. You plan to eventually replace the shed, but are even thinking of landscaping before construction?

I'd wait. Get your big things done. There are some specific questions I'd have, but without being able to see the entire plan, it's difficult to say too much...for instance, space between hot tub and pool. gorgeous views of mechanicals. in and out from proposed shed.

Enjoyed your comments, Wayne. I agree with many of them, sad to say. Much of landscape design, for some, is not about practicality.

Good news - I spoke to my landscaper and he said we can hold off on the side by the future shed, no problem. I just wonder, how much of a big deal is it really? I feel like people must build sheds with existing plants around them. I measured it out, there is 12.5' from the fence to the pool concrete where the blueberry bushes would go- if they are 3-4 feet, that would leave ~9' to move shed pieces in. But probably better safe than sorry, even though I really don't want to have to dig the grass out next year.

I did think about the shed a little bit (give me some credit Wayne hah!). The old shed was 1. ugly, 2. termite damaged 3. only had 1 door in the wrong place, no windows and 4. got dug into a hole when the pool was installed.

My eventual plan is to put a new shed with a door in the front and on the side, so it will be easy access with the lawn mower from the side door and to the pool with the front door. I hope it can be taller with a loft-like shelf for the pool floats and tubes, boogie-boards, sleds etc. I'd like to split it in half inside (prob. just a curtain divider) so that we can put garden tools on one side then use the other as a semi-cabana. I'd like the cabana side to have a window with a little shelf for beverages. It will have a pergola, with preferably a natural stone patio underneath for some shaded area to drink homemade lemonade flavored with the herbs I grow. So yeah, I've thought about my she-shed just a little bit. ;-)

my point about the shed was less about what you had and why it went away...I assumed you had your reasons...and more about, how to accomplish the finished project.

construction happens all the time around existing plantings. as does trampling of those plants. carpenters are there for a purpose, and that purpose is not generally to look out for plants. And you are going to want some creature comforts...water, power, etc. I'd do your major work first, then use the landscape to finish the space around it.

I also wanted you to take a chance to breathe. there would be some questions i'd like to ask. such as, obviously, the plan pictures are just a small piece of the whole. how does the whole picture the plan lays out suit you? other than expensive.

what I saw, and what you have said, makes me want to know more. why move the hot tub...to the other side of the yard from the pool? I assume there's a reason...and I don't need to know why. I just would like to know that that reason, whatever it is, is acceptable to you and your goals. If important, you'll find a way to pay for it. If not, I shouldn't be too hard to find ways to accomplish your goals and make the price tag more affordable.

i'll repeat my statement of before: don't cut the size of the bed in half because you want a smaller bill. half the size of a bad plan is just a cheaper mistake. want it cheaper? i'll bet dollars to monopoly money there are far too many plants in the plan.

You've done some fantasizing about your woman cave...how about how the rest? do you know what you want out this? or even what you can get?

The designer wanted to move the hot tub because the pool filter and heater slightly obstructed the walkway and view from the fence gate to the deck. Which I agree with - I think the placement of the pool equipment was wrong, but I didn't know the right questions to ask (about how big it would be, weird code rules about outlet distances, etc.) until it was over and that is one of the main reasons I tried to go with a designer for the landscaping to fix it.

That said, it isn't really *that* bad. Is it a 100% perfect magazine worthy layout, I guess not. But is it way better than any yard I've ever had that I feel absolutely blessed to have? Hell yeah!

Overall really my yard isn't that big, but I feel confident thanks to this thread it is going to be great and we're going to have a ton of fun in it. Just have to hope the landscaper does a good job now, we'll see soon enough!

Be careful about siting the blueberry bushes near the concrete pad. They need very acidic soil and water runoff from the concrete will likely make that soil alkaline. I would also lay out, using a rope or hose, the beds according to the designer's proposal. Insert a few stakes around that are the heights of the plant material you are considering. This will help give you a real sense of the scale of the design. What will you be able to see from the various vantage points, like your kitchen window, deck, and driveway or entrance? The plantings should be a pleasure to look at, not just in summer but also in winter (I would want to conceal the pool and slide with some evergreens myself) but also reveal what you do want to see when the pool is in use. I am curious about fencing requirements in your area. Even if a backyard fence meets code, will you feel safe having children playing in that backyard? I would want plantings to conceal some kind of fence around the pool pad -- with a lockable gate.

I don't know your zone but Agapanthus were nice next to my parents pool. They do require deadheading at the end of their season though. One thing I did not see mentioned above is that you do not want plants that attract bees right next to the pool.

Congrats on the diminished price tag.

If people LIKE to garden, it's amazing how starts of plants can turn into whole gardens in a relatively short time. For myself, I usually buy one of this or one of that and then turn it into as much as I want. There are exception, of course, and they are usually trees and groundcovers for which I want quick results. Time is the gardeners best friend.

Yes.. for example, cheapskate that I am, I'd go for one of those echinacea knowing I'll be overrun by next season.

The echinacea are a cultivar that may or may not come true from seed. Personally, I'd go for Magnus which is very common, and more like what is likely to just show up. I don't have a good feel for how long individual plants live because of the seedlings, but get the idea from the Perennial Forum that they are relatively short lived (under 5 years) so replacement seedlings are important.

The grass is the one I'd refuse to pay for. A 2-gal pot can be divided into many pieces, and will cost much less than $70.

Just a few comments:

Iteas are gorgeous but they do attract huge numbers of bee pollinators when in bloom--not something everyone wants near a pool. And they sucker and those suckers have to be controlled. I love mine, but it's not near a pool.

Ceanothus americanus is an interesting shrub, but at least in my garden it looks pretty shabby after bloom. I wouldn't put it front and center in any garden.

While I love our native plants, I wouldn't want to limit my choices to natives only. For long term interest and ease of care, there are many great plants that are not native. And if you're set on going native, I'd most certainly plant a Baptisia australis, late spring bloom (blue) and looks great the whole rest of the season. You could also search out B. spherocarpa (bright yellow bloom), and also looks great all season. Both will get quite large (especially the latter one) as they splay out after bloom, though the footprints will be relatively small. I would use one of these in place of the Itea.

Ok, you got what you want...cheaper price. It seems what you also wanted was native and wildflower/animal/bird/insect friendly.

Well do I know the puzzles that can be created by having to abide by code. If you are fortunate, you just have code issues, and not excessive zoning zealously enforced. I usually don't mind the code puzzles, but zoning can frost my (body part deleted), occasionally.

We all have code puzzles to adhere to, or should, to a certain degree. It's finding ways to solve them that fit both form and function that can occasionally be challenging...but that's the fun. Solve the issue, and do so in a creative manner that satisfies all concerned.

What I wanted you to do was live in the space. There is nothing wrong inherently with seeing how you use the space, and nothing wrong with doing this in stages.

If ease of maintenance was an issue, yeah, adjust the number of plants. Mulch, and by mulch, I mean hardwood, put on at the right depth. And get a soil knife.

Named crosses between B. spherocarpa and other baptisias are fairly common right now. Carolina Moonlight is a light yellow.

Edge the pool with a wide strip of concrete or stone paving (much of the existing paving is going to turn out to be too narrow) and put a wall in to provide an adequately sized, paved seating area on the house side. If it gets too hot out there use patio umbrellas or install structural solutions like arbors or lath.

Make the basic garden layout shrubs (or hedges) around the perimeter with grass in the center. Forget about a flower/herb/vegetable bed unless and until you are sure you will be willing and able to keep up with it. And then make a small, rectangular one using only variably sized rectangular groupings of multiple specimens each* of small, tidy clumping plants like chives and Coreopsis. Put it in a natural spot for a feature, with shrubs providing a backdrop - and near the house (I would have also put the pool near the house and not all the way at the back of the yard, sitting up high and exposed like an Aztec pyramid - but too late now).

*Approximates general visual effect of interlocking drifts in a flowing informal border without nearly the same level of difficulty

Re moving Ceanothus americanus. The plant rapidly builds up an enormous, tangled root system, and though I've never tried it, I've read that it is impossible to move once established. And I'm so glad you're not concerned about bees when they're gathering nectar. So many people are, so I did think I should mention it.

Another great Baptisia is B. 'Purple Smoke'. All these Baptisias stay looking handsome after bloom, something that is not true of many spring bloomers.

I love my blueberry bushes but they are not really attractive and shed blooms/spring and leaves/fall so might not be the best by a pool. I have to net them to keep the birds from eating all the berries. My itea are really really really bad to sucker but beautiful in the fall. I like your selections but they need to be in the right place so their nature doesn't make you crazy.