Well, in some ways my conditions are completely different from yours... I can only dream of temps in the 60's during the summer... even at night. I do have 'Sophie's Perpetual' and she's very good here except for now, when she's somewhat summer-dormant.

Some of the crimson China's have a fragrance that I find intoxicating, even though the fragrance isn't very strong. Given my experience that China's here really like cooler temps, I'm inclined to recommend that you consider roses in that family; some are more fragrant than others.

Even though our summers are hotter than yours, I can relate to the lack of direct sun. We have lots of mature oaks here, so I also don't expect my roses to constantly bloom their heads off, even though some bloom quite well, despite the shade.

I wonder if some of the more fragrant Polyanthas might work for you? I know some are fairly shade-tolerant and compact enough for a smaller garden. I was about to recommend the very-fragrant 'Clotilde Soupert' since she's shade-tolerant and beautiful, then remembered she has a reputation for balling. She doesn't do that here, but she might do it there. 'Perle d'Or' is also lovely and fragrant, and might be a better choice?

Hopefully, others will chime in with more specific recommendations.

Have fun choosing!

Virginia

Regarding polyanthas how about Excellence von Schubert? With the foggy conditions I would also recommend roses with not so many petals so the they would open for you. Some one else can chime in with some varieties. Semi- doubles would open good I would guess. Good Luck Choosing!

My Sophies Perpetual is a blooming machine. She's much happier using her energy to bloom instead of grow. I'm disappointed in her lack of growth, and I know I could likely force her to spend some energy on getting bigger if I cut off her buds but I don't have the will power as she's so beautiful in bloom! I've had her two years I believe, and she's still 2x2 at the most.

My other favorite small rose is the polyantha Borderer. Absolute blooming machine! She's in a sunny location in my garden though, so I'm not too sure about partial shade. Souv. de la Malmaison is a good old garden rose that does well in partial shade. I don't personally own that one but I have her sport in a pot Kronprinzessin Viktoria and I think she's beautiful. Can't wait to get her in the ground to see her really take off. If you want a cream/white rose I enjoy her, she's not a blooming machine but quite fond of her. You seem to like really fragrant roses and I think souv. de la Malmaison may be the more fragrant than her sport.

Virginia, Alana, and Mzstitch, thank you for your suggestions--these are very helpful.

Virgina, Perle d'Or has been high on my list for sometime. I like it and think it will do OK here. Clothilde Soupert--I think I had ruled that one out after reading of likely problems with it. One strategy I'm using is to see which roses people in *warmer* coastal climates here say they are having problems with because of wet or cold. Because here I have the wetness but much less sun, so they surely won't work for me. I will look into the fragrant Chinas, as you suggest.

Alana, several months ago I had the chance to pick up an Excellenz von Schubert at a small local nursery. The nurseryman there suggested it to me, and I wish I'd taken the tip. They don't have it anymore, but I'll consider ordering it.

Mzstitch, my Sophie's Perpetual is about 3 yrs old and about 2' x 2' and lives in a pot that's maybe, oh, 2.5 gallons? And she is also blooming her head off right now, which is incredibly gratifying to me. She is my first real rose success. I'm actually happy with her slow growth, because of my limited space. I hope she'll gain another foot or so, but I'll be happy if I can maintain her in a pot. I really love this rose and her beautiful fragrance. I've just started trying to propagate some cuttings, my first attempts at this. If I can find other roses that have similar requirements to Sophie's P., I'll be very glad. My few other roses *are* budding right now (hooray!), so maybe I'll find more varieties that can succeed in my space. I would love Souv. de la M., but I believe that I read about problems with cold or damp from people living in warmer coastal areas. I'll check again, also K. Victoria and Borderer--thank you.

Since you only have a small space, it's good that you're educating yourself and learning from the experiences of others.

Having said that, I do believe that if you fall for a rose- really fall for it- but aren't quite sure it will work... you should try it. Plants that are loved often do better than they should in not-quite-ideal gardening situations. And if it doesn't work out, at least you will have tried, and won't have to wonder...

Virginia

Comtesse, thank you for your suggestions. I am madly looking up and researching (on HMF and by searching this forum) everyone's suggestions for me, as well as drooling over some of the roses that I know I couldn't grow. And I think Felicia would be a good choice for me--thank you.

Virginia, I love your advice. I am falling in love here with a lot of roses that are almost certain failures here--but yes, I do intend to gamble on some. Because of the many challenges I'm dealing with here, and because I've been rose- and garden-starved for so long, I think that what I consider "acceptable" or a "success" would often likely be considered a hot mess/failure to most people. And at least I have my Sophie's P., and my Buff Beauty is suddenly, after several years, acting like it wants to be a rose, putting out lots of new leaves, a new cane, and finally there are many little buds. Each flower that blooms here gives me a thrill and I just fawn over them, I'm so gratified! So I am willing to try more and if they fail, they fail--they will go to friends in better situations. Thanks again for your comments.

Sheba

You probably already know this, but Annie's Annuals stocks a small selection of old garden roses and hybrid musks that work well in the Bay area, so they might have some good candidates for you, if you want to take the drive over to Richmond. I bought La Perle there this spring. My Buff Beauty and Crepescule are getting to be monsters after only a couple years, so that shows you the difference between Oakland and San Francisco.

Hah, yes, I know that difference well! Even my neighborhood vs. a mile or two west of here, big difference. Oddly enough, I think I'm going to Richmond later today or tomorrow. I have never been to Annie's as I hadn't realized they had a retail operation! I will definitely stop by there soon. I have big hopes for my Buff Beauty and my Crepescule now; my few roses and non-garden suffered some abuse and complete neglect for several years, but now with some care, they are showing a return to life. : ) Thanks for your suggestion!

Sheba

Here is my Sophie's Perpetual, bought as a band from Vintage just before they closed. The colors here aren't right--they aren't nearly so garish. Right now there are 10 flowers in full bloom on this tiny plant and a whole lot of buds as well. I love this little rose so much for being such a survivor in my quite difficult conditions, for spreading her beauty and very delicious fragrance in my tiny cramped gritty urban garden, for coming back after two years of complete neglect and leafing out so fully and after bad blackspot (she was totally defoliated end of March). I can't recommend her enough especially to anyone in conditions like mine--foggy, windy, cold summer, and only part sun on days we even see the sun--yet blooming like mad. -- Sheba

Very pretty! I love pink roses. Did you end up going to Annies Annuals? I noticed a week or so ago that they had Felicia in stock. They say she does great there. I bought one (mail order) about a year and a half ago. She is doing great. Started out as a 4" pot. The scent is wonderful, and the flowers are so different from my MANY other pink roses. She gets quite a bit of shade here and seems fine with it. I love her so much, that I bought one for both my mother and my sister. She might get a little bigger than what you are looking for, however. They carry other roses as well, and more are available in the retail store than mailorder. Lisa

Lisa, I am so glad you posted. I didn't go yet to Annie's but I will now asap. When I looked at their website, there were only one or two roses listed, so I thought perhaps they don't have roses this time of year. So glad to hear otherwise! I will make a visit soon, also to the Oakland Morcom Rose Garden, as I haven't been there this year. And thanks again for suggesting Felicia, which sounds like a very good choice for me.

Sheba

Lisa, THANK YOU so much for suggesting I visit Annie's in Richmond--WOW, what an amazing, beautiful place! I wandered around for two hours at least in a happy daze, admiring the gorgeous displays. I came home with a sweet little Felicia, plus several other plants as well. This is really an extraordinary spot, a bit of paradise in the East Bay, and I urge anyone who is within range to go and allow plenty of time to take it all in. They have only a few rose varieties available right now, but they have a simply enormous variety of annuals and perennials available, with many varieties I've never seen before for sale, and their in-ground and container plantings are simply gorgeous. Lots of chairs and benches set around the gardens and they seem to welcome visitors to relax and enjoy the flora.

Sheba