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kgeezy20

River planting

Hey guys, I am looking for some recommendations of something to plant in very sandy soil in part to full sun about 40-100 feet from a river. No size restraints. I'm having a hard time coming up with more than one to two things, so feel free to be creative! Thanks!

Kyle

Comments (44)

  • kentrees12
    7 years ago

    Big river, small river? If it is above (1 k year) high water and no high water table issues, plant anything you want within your climate constraints. If not, look into riparian species.

    Maybe need more info. If subject to flooding, raging torrents, lots of debris and erosion or calm backwaters? Full sun, shade, other trees or open?

    I've got a creek on my property. Lovely tranquil thing until heavy rains, then flash floods. It has undermined 80' hardwoods with impunity. But the tree it hasn't been able to wash away, in fact this tree actually keeps the creek banks from eroding, is baldcypress.

  • Kyle (East TN, 6b/7a)
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Big river, the French Broad, actually. The tree(s) would be placed on the first terrace up from the river. Would not be subject to much flooding. Maybe every 3-4 years, and even then they would be in such a location that the flood waters wouldn't be much more than standing water.

  • kentrees12
    7 years ago

    For me, the premier riverside tree would be sycamore. Since your planting area is not subject to severe flooding, anything that grows well in your area should be fine. If the soil is moist, or river moisture is available below the surface, baldcypress should do well, as should dawn redwood. The BC might even make knees if enough moisture is available. The birches come to mind, river, sweet, or yellow. Native red maple, and silver maple also, willows of various kinds. Old white pines look great leaning over water, as do hemlocks, but they're out due to insect issues as are ash. Were you thinking of anything specific, deciduous or evergreen?

  • Kyle (East TN, 6b/7a)
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Hemlock came to my mind as well, Kentrees. They are one of the primary riparian species here and it's heartbreaking to watch them vanish.

    The reason this planting endeavor came about is due to several large ash trees which succumbed to the dang EAB. They were close to 60'. Such a shame.

    I'm a big fan of sycamore too, and there's several there, along with several large river birch, which I also like. Even 10 or so small Pawpaws nearby as well.

    This is a little off subject, but any idea on how Western hemlock typically fair in this part of the country?

  • ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
    7 years ago

    out in the middle of a field.. with moisture available.. weeping willow .....


    ken


    never in a suburban back yard ...

  • kentrees12
    7 years ago

    Kyle

    So EAB is killing your ash trees already, bummer. It was found in Cannon County where I live last year. So far no dead ones that I've seen, but not all that many in my area. The Central Basin (Nashville and environs) is covered up with them, so it will be HUGE when they start to go. I've planted two, an 'Autumn Purple' white, and after seeing the magnificent blue ash in Cincinnati at the arboretum I planted one, and I've got a couple below in the woods. I'll let nature take her course, but I'll hate to see the blue go.

    As far as western hemlock here, they're pretty much a no go, at least as far as a thriving specimen. Interesting that very few PNW things do well in the east, and conversely lots of our stuff does well out there. The adelgid hasn't reached me yet, nor has it reached Fall Creek Falls SP, two counties away to the east, which has some virgin stuff,not as big as what was in the Smokies, but big enough. I've got quite a few eastern and one Carolina hemlock, plus several dwarf cultivars. The easterns will be sacrificed to the gods, I may treat the dwarfs and the Carolina, if imidicloprid is still available.

  • edlincoln
    7 years ago

    Obvious answers are balcypress and swamp tupelo.

  • Sara Malone Zone 9b
    7 years ago

    Taxodium for sure. Edlincoln has the two that I would have suggested.

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    7 years ago

    Metasequoia! Of course.

    Swamp tupelo is Nyssa aquatica? Good, unique suggestion. I believe you can grow them in your zone. I am envious.

  • Sara Malone Zone 9b
    7 years ago

    Nyssa sylvatica probabably works fine too if it's hardy there. They can take an enormous amount of water (and interestingly, drought - the similarly is, I believe, low oxygen in the soil, but if someone knows for sure I'd love to know).

  • Kyle (East TN, 6b/7a)
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Loads of Nyssa sylvatica here. A fine tree. I've heard of swamp tupelo, but never seen one that I'm aware of. What's the difference in them and Nyssa sylvatica?

  • krnuttle
    7 years ago

    Would a Nuttal oak work in this situation. As I understand it should grow in that area and is a flood plain tree.


    I have one and am impressed with it, and its growth rate.

    Kyle (East TN, 6b/7a) thanked krnuttle
  • PRO
    Caldwell Home & Garden
    7 years ago

    krnuttle, nuttal oak should work.

  • wisconsitom
    7 years ago

    @ Sara Malone...I think you're onto something. Many riverbottom trees are thought to make dependable landscape trees due to their adaptation to low soil O2. So the Nyssa may well follow this pattern.

    @ Kyle, check out Chinese hemlock. Looks like it possesses some useful resistance genes (to the adelgid) and is probably more closely matched to eastern conditions than western US species are apt to be.

  • PRO
    Caldwell Home & Garden
    7 years ago

    what about pinus parviflora? chinese hemlock would work, but I think metasequoia would look better. also paperbark maple and silver maple would work.

  • Toronado3800 Zone 6 St Louis
    7 years ago

    Nyssa aquatica, swamp tupelo, can grow IN water or at least tolerate tons of honest flooding and if in water gets huge trunks like a metasequoia does when the lower limbs are left on. I think the fall color is not quite as good as Nyssa sylvatica but is still very good.

    Google should give pics.

  • Sara Malone Zone 9b
    7 years ago

    Pinus parviflora would curl up and die.

  • PRO
    Caldwell Home & Garden
    7 years ago

    no, pinus parviflora is extremely water tolerant, and doesn't like drying out. if you want a nativepinus taeda will tolerate such conditions as well.


  • Sara Malone Zone 9b
    7 years ago

    It wants good drainage...have you grown many? It doesn't like drying out but it sure doesn't like being sodden.

  • hairmetal4ever
    7 years ago

    Quercus michauxii

    Metasequoia


  • PRO
    Caldwell Home & Garden
    7 years ago

    sarah malone, I have three planted beside a pond (pinus parviflora). pinus taeda is the native equivalent of pinus parviflora and is a bit better for the situation.

    Kyle (East TN, 6b/7a) thanked Caldwell Home & Garden
  • gardener365
    7 years ago

    Kyle,

    You can get really large seedlings from Missouri's State Nursery for pennies. Maybe even Tennessee but I've not seen better prices from any other state nursery. One of Missouri's tree packages is a Hickory mix. They also have lots and lots of oaks to choose from; persimmon, pecan, and others I'm not thinking of or already mentioned. You could spend 50-80 bucks which includes free shipping and get all of these.

    Dax

  • User
    7 years ago

    alder, poplar, salix are the usual varieties in wet Norfolk waterlands. All can take fluvial and tidal flooding (essential in a man-made peat cutting waterworld).

  • Kyle (East TN, 6b/7a)
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Quercus michauxii was one of the first I thought of, only because I'd seen hair talk about it in some of his other posts and it intrigued me.

    Thanks for all the awesome recommendations folks, I can always count on you all. I'll mull over all the options till fall and then decide.

  • wisconsitom
    7 years ago

    Hey Camp. Hoping your hanging in there. (OT-sorry).

  • gardener365
    7 years ago

    I'd add Quercus lyrata in addition to Q.michauxii, Kyle. I've been a fan of Overcup oak for a number of years.

    Bottomland Q.macrocarpa is another great addition. I have quite a few seedlings if you would like a few this Fall.

    These are the caps/acorn I grew my mac's from. Sourced along the Mississippi River nearby.

    Dax



  • Kyle (East TN, 6b/7a)
    Original Author
    7 years ago

    Yeah I'd totally be interested in a few. Thanks, Dax.

  • gardener365
    7 years ago

    Alright we'll take care of that. Dax

  • rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
    7 years ago

    I'm not offering a suggestion for, Kyle, but simply to say, "lucky you"! The French Broad is located in some of the most beautiful parts of the country.

    Kyle (East TN, 6b/7a) thanked rhizo_1 (North AL) zone 7
  • Dave in NoVA • N. Virginia • zone 7A
    7 years ago

    How about Magnolia virginiana?

  • nickel_kg
    7 years ago

    My late FIL had a grove of White Poplar at the river's edge on his farm in SW VA; occasional flooding never bothered them in the least. Commonly planted in the olden days. Their dark upper leaves contrast with their silvery undersides. Quick growing and they tend to sucker, which is probably why I always see them in small groves, never as a single trees. Actually, I wouldn't recommend planting them unless you have cows in the field to eat them down, or unless you're able to mow around them regularly to keep them in check. But in the right location, they are a pretty sight.

  • wisconsitom
    7 years ago

    Despite my constant involvement with battling invasive plant species, I have a guilty liking of white poplar. And where that set of conditions nickel mentions is in play, I completely agree that it can be a most attractive and interesting species.

    We've had a few over the years that long-ago homeowners planted on the terrace. No, it's not a great choice for this usage (street tree) but i have to admit, I really liked them. Today's City Forester has had all of them removed. And in truth, they were becoming problematic.

    I live near the Oneida Indian Reservation-the Wisconsin branch obviously, not the NY or Ontario guys-and for whatever reason, there are many of these little groves on Indian land. Methinks they liked the tree too, as they got pushed westward to this state.

  • kentrees12
    7 years ago

    When I was a little kid living in CT, our family would go on picnics during the summer. We'd go to the same state park, covered with white pines along a river, and my dad would try to get the same table, with a view across the river. On the hillside was a small house with two trees in front, and when the wind blew and the leaves fluttered in the breeze, they were silver. As a young kid I was interested in trees, my dad admired these trees and asked me what they were. I'd never seen trees like that before and had no idea what they were. Years later I learned they were silver poplars, probably 'Bolleana' as they were tall and narrow. At the time they were rare in CT, probably still are.

    Now living in TN, I see these trees often. I often come upon them in the middle of nowhere, at the site of old ruined homesteads. I suppose the Scots-Irish that settled this area brought them from "home". The courthouse in the county seat was surrounded with these and silver maples, periodically topped. They gave scant shade until their crowns grew back, and then they were topped again. A few years ago the courthouse grounds were reworked and the trees were removed. Many were rotted and had become liabilities. I was glad to see them go, they were ugly.

    Today I have three on my place, far from the house on the creek bank. I have to walk to them to see them. I planted one root sprout, and left two other sprouts to grow. Every time I see the silver leaves dance in the breeze, I'm reminded of my dad and those family picnics, so long ago.

  • PRO
    Caldwell Home & Garden
    7 years ago

    many label white poplar as an invasive species, It actually doesn't have invasive tendencies. It doesn't seed everywhere but has an extensive root system which it sprouts suckers from. When planted in the right situation they are a fine tree.

  • wisconsitom
    7 years ago

    Yes, a classic "colonial" species, one capable of creating quite a little colony indeed. I don't know if I'd go quite as far as you-Caldwell-in that I should think some seeding can go on, but in the main, these are grove-formers, not like buckthorn or something where birds carry the seeds hither and yon.

    Here and there are very impressive groves-undoubtedly each stem being a ramet, not a truly individual tree.

    Kentrees, we long ago (20-some years at least) took down a giant Bolleana on the terrace. While I was too new in the department at the time to know the why and wherefore, I vaguely remember that it was crowding another terrace tree. So, what was this other tree you ask? Why, a Norway maple, lol!

  • User
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    The poplars which line the Yare river come into leaf just as guelder rose - viburnum opulus - comes into fulsome bloom. This shrub, along with the smaller v.lantana, reaches quite staggering proportions and for miles, the riverside is a foaming mass of cowparsley and hogweed, viburnums and white, silver, black and grey poplars...like a gigantic cloudbank - a lovely surreal sight.

    Cheers Tom, yep, hanging in considerably better after spending spouses unused beer money (antibiotics!) on re-invigorating the garden after a disaster so catastrophic that I didn't dare mention it here - suffice to say it involves mislabelled spraying tanks! The enforced nursing was almost a blessing since it kept me from the (ravaged) garden. I whined all over the perennials forum cos they are a soft-hearted lot over there.

  • Huggorm
    7 years ago

    The poplars which line the Yare river come into leaf just as guelder rose - viburnum opulus - comes into fulsome bloom.

    That's very early flowering for guelder rose. In my place they don't flower untill second half of June, two month after both their leaves and the poplar's emerge.

  • User
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    Yes, it is right at the start of June here too...but by then, the poplars are in full leaf, showing those silver undersides to total perfection. At this time of year. they are the most visible tree in the landscape (particularly on a misty Norfolk morning). The poplars are also fairly tardy into leaf here - oak has been making a strong showing before the poplars leaf out...and they lose their leaves early too. The Yare valley hosts black poplar - a tree which has become oddly rare in the UK, along with lots of white poplar and various hybrids - there are numerous small poplar plantations (such as mine) which fell into neglect when the match market dried up.Quite likely my timings are whacked out though...the whole scenario really depends on a fleeting but lovely collision with the plentiful umbellifers which are a large presence along the river edges...honestly does look like some earthbound cloudscape for a few weeks.

  • lucky_p
    7 years ago

    Pecan. Shellbark Hickory. Black walnut. Bur oak, Swamp chesnut oak. Shellbark hickory. Pecan. Black walnut.

    Did I say pecan?

  • wisconsitom
    7 years ago

    What about pecan? (Just messin around, lucky).

  • bengz6westmd
    7 years ago
    last modified: 7 years ago

    I remember seeing common white pines planted along a floodplain (Antietam Creek) decades ago & thinking "those won't last". But they have, despite occasional inundations.

  • wisconsitom
    7 years ago

    White pine is a fully facultative species, meaning it is just as likely to be found in a wet environment as in a drier one. It is common enough around here to find them in outright swamps, albeit, like their cousins the hemlocks, often existing precariously on little hummocks and ridge tops within the wetter surrounds.

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