Love a nook with banquette, counter seating over the range meh, and there's another dining area just a few feet beyond that. Can you surrender one?

Can you give us a full first floor plan? I think this will help the guru's here move things around for you. Right now the kitchen is not a good layout - island is barrier between stove and sink/prep area. You also have to go through a work area to get to the fridge from DR/banquet. Also definitely check out the threads on here about island ranges - they are much harder to vent and widely panned around here. I think your kitchen could be arranged to avoid this. Agree, do you really need 3 types of seating in such close proximity? Skipping the peninsula seating would give you a bit more room for the kitchen and maybe a bigger island depending on what your aisle widths are currently.

To get to the backyard (if you have one) do you have to go through kitchen?

lharpie- here is the first floor plan. Where the stairs are is currently a bedroom, but will now be the stairs, extended laundry space, and desk area. We are building a master suite upstairs.

benjesbride-the door goes to the long driveway. Back/sideyard access is from family room, living room, and back bedroom.

Do you have a drawing of the present floor plan?

are you working with an actual architect or "designer." Without knowing what your starting with, overall this looks kind of messy to me. (Most people want the kitchen close to their family room, waking through the kitchen with laundry is not desirable, the guest bathroom seems too close to the dining room, etc)

You didn't ask, but you do not want the shower door opening as shown. It should swing out. Put the shower head on the same wall as the toilet, then a tiled wall next to the toilet with the control, then a glass door that swings out.

Do you really need two full baths on the first floor with only two bedrooms down there? If you moved the door for the far left bedroom down, then both first floor bedrooms could use that bathroom. The other bathroom could become a laundry room and, if big enough, a powder room. Then you could make the laundry room smaller using part of it as a mudroom, then the rest add to the kitchen or make it a mudroom/powder room. Just a thought. I agree that with current kitchen layout proposed, there is no easy path to the laundry room. Another option would be to put the banquette in the lower left side of the kitchen, then use the two exterior walls as an L.

Are you open to making changes in the Kitchen? I see a few red flags....

If so...the Layout Help FAQ

How do I ask for Layout Help and what information should I include?

• http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2767033/how-do-i-ask-for-layout-help-and-what-information

Yes, I am very open to changes. Thank you for the link above too. I will say that I don't want to get rid of the window seat in the kitchen and I do want the open space design. My bid did not include the island, but he did bid it as an extra if I want it. My main goal was to open up the kitchen, remodel bathrooms, and add a Master Suite upstairs. My kids are older (14 and 18). We do enjoy our family meals (most nights we eat at home together) but quite frankly, I'm not a chef!! One thing I don't want to lose is my warming drawer. There are quite a few times that I will put someone's meal in there if they are busy at dinner time (usually one of the kids) for later.

Do you have a fully measured layout of the Kitchen + banquette space - the widths/lengths of each window/wall/door/doorway and the distances b/w each window/wall/door/doorway? Something like this:

I can give you numbers-not sure if that will help!

24'long (The windows are 3 feet wide-the one window by the banquette pushes out so that whole area is 4 feet)

11' wide- the windows behind the banquette face the front of the house are 5'10"From the window over the sink to the end of the island is 14"wide.

I do have 2 pantry areas if you look at the architects drawing above.

Ok...let me see what I can do.

I think it would be easier if you could let me know what each labeled dimension below is:

A =

B =

C =

D =

E =

F =

G =

H =

I =

J =

K =

L =

M =

N =

O =

P =

A= 12 ft

B= 6 ft

C= 24 ft

D= 9 ft

E = 1 1/2 ft

F= 2 ft

G= 11 ft

H= 9 ft

I =2 ft

J= 16 ft

K= 2 ft

L= 2 ft

M= 16 ft

O= 17 1/2 ft

P- 15 ft

There is no window or door from the kitchen into the dining room. Not sure what he was measuring -maybe clearance area? Thank you so much!!

I have the washer and dryer in the kitchen. In general if you can find some other room to put them in, that is the best thing to do. Unless I did a really substantial remodel, which I was not willing to do, there was no other location for them. I bought under counter height washer and dryer-that means they are compact (perfect size for two people) -and that gave me a huge amount of countertop in the kitchen and I am quite happy with that. Something to keep in mind if you go the same way, even though they are under counter, they stick out further than the normal kitchen cabinets so you may want to get extra deep cabinets on the same wall that you install the washer and dryer.

The other thing to keep in mind is that you want to be able to turn the water off. A lot of people put their water hook ups and drain hose behind the washing machine and then stack the dryer on top of it so that they cannot possibly turn them off unless they remove the dryer and possibly the washer. I don't recommend this, I recommend planning for the hook ups to be somewhere that you can easily get at them but also out of sight.

I have a few random thoughts about your overall plan. I tend to get caught up in overall home plans before I get down to kitchen solutions, but I do understand if you don't want to address the whole house since you came here for kitchen help. In any case, these are my thoughts.

Can you move the stair to create more space for office/laundry/kitchen? If you put the stair where the family room closet is, you'll be able to access under the stair for some storage. More practically, when you come downstairs from your bedroom, I think it makes more sense to come down into a private hallway rather than directly into the dining room. Budget-wise it's probably a lot cheaper to have a standard stair rather than an exposed stair with decorative details.

It's unclear where you present front door is (ETA: I see that your front door is probably where your proposed front pantry/closet is. why are you moving it?), but will it bother you that the view directly ahead of the front door is into a bedroom?

Your Family Room is an odd shape. If Bedroom 1 is a secondary bedroom, could you eliminate the reach in closet to square up the family room? I'm wondering if there is space at the bathroom entry to just create a walk-thru closet, maybe add a pocket door there or just change the swing of the door, so you don't look into the closet/bath when you enter the room

I think if I move the stairs I will need to go back to the structural engineer and do more foundation work. We currently have a 1 story house but are building a 1,000 sq. ft. master suite upstairs. Kind of crazy, but I guess I wanted it just right and so it grew, and grew to get the bathroom, closet, and "sitting room" the size I wanted. So as it is, I'm already way over the budget we started with :(, but I won't have regrets upstairs later :) The main goal downstairs was to remodel both bathrooms downstairs (They are still 1940's and yucky) and open up the kitchen. Then of course add the upstairs to take advantage of the city, bay view we will get by going up.

Did you consider just creating a large master suite/laundry/powder/office downstairs and putting two small bedrooms and a simple bath upstairs? Masters on the main are in great demand in most markets and if you age in place, you'll probably be glad you don't have to climb stairs. The kids will be gone soon enough and you can take over one of their bedrooms for a library/quiet space with a view when you have an empty-ish nest. Can you take in the view from the back patio if the master suite is in Bedroom 1?

This sounds like an expensive project and your plan just doesn't look like it optimizes your space.

Did you consider putting the laundry upstairs? The kids are young and spry and can handle the stairs lol!

I'm torn about putting the kids upstairs. On the one hand, it gives you a first floor master, which you will appreciate in a few years when they are gone more than they are living at home. On the other hand, it gives the ungrateful wretches the bay view, which they won't appreciate glued to their screens and homework lol.

If you don't mind me mulling over your whole house, could you post the as-built drawing showing the present house layout? I'd like to think on it and try some ideas during nap time today.

This is the demo plan and I labeled what is where now. Nope, I'm not willing to give my kids the upstairs. They would like it, but this is for my husband and I. :)

I think you have two big issues with this kitchen:

-As someone else said, you're short on space, yet you have three eating areas. At least one needs to go.

- A person entering from the back door (or going to the laundry room) must thread his way through the whole kitchen to get into the house. Especially if the person is carrying anything (like a laundry basket), this will be annoying ... both to the person entering and the cook who's using the kitchen. Take a look:

The laundry room remains unchanged in the yellow.

The kitchen shifts left, eliminating the banquette (yeah, I love banquettes, but I don't see the point in three eating areas while you lack kitchen space). It gives you plenty of window space. A person coming in from the back door or the laundry room can walk through the space without entering the kitchen itself. You can still have island seating plus the dining room.

Which way is the view? Are you trying to capture more of it in the main floor living space?

If you want to keep the window seat/banquette, especially since it sounds like there may be nice views from those windows, what if you moved the door to the laundry room down to the bottom of that same wall. You wouldn't then have the peninsula. Basically an L, that runs along the sink wall, then down the left side, with a doorway to the laundry room at the bottom. Then you won't have traffic through your kitchen. You could reposition the washer/dryer in that space, and the pantry. I can't comment on the kitchen layout - leave that to the gurus, but you would still have your banquette, and possibly more room for an island as the space would then be open to your dining area, rather than having the stove/peninsula in the way.

Is there a toilet in the closet of bathroom 2?

No, it's not in a closet.

whoops. sorry. Is there a toilet in bathroom 2 at all? The demo plan looks like it has two sinks and a tub.

Yes, there is a toilet!! :) Not sure why it's not on demo plan. It's next to the tub at the present. The box on the demo is a separate shower. That is probably where you thought there was a toilet in there.

Oh! Is the toilet in this location then?

I'm going to post my thoughts so far in case they spark other ideas. If the Ikea planner is cooperative I might try to do a kitchen plan tonight like you came here for. I apologize for my tangents.

I'm wondering if you have enough square footage to make the stair/office nook/ laundry closet an island in the middle of the house. Were you planning some kind of skylight ? that might be cool above the desk area.

By making a laundry/stair/desk island, the office nook and family room should feel more connected to the front of the house; it's a more direct walk from the kitchen to the family room and back yard. Also, the main bath doesn't look quite as exposed to the dining room.

If noise is an issue perhaps you could put a pocket door to the family room. I closed off the door that went directly into the kitchen to create a nice size pantry that goes behind the fridge. A wide closet shares a wall with the pantry. Perhaps removing the closet and pantry from the front of the house, you'll be able to enjoy more uninterrupted views.

My math could be off, but I think that Island is about 5' wide x 5-6' long. Two people on two sides is more conversational and by having seats facing the windows they also might get a view. We had a banquette in our last house and although they're comfy they face away from the view.

Thank you so much for all of your help. The desk area is open above to the upstairs. There is a window up above that looks down on the desk area. There are also 2 windows at the landing that will give light to down below. Also, we have a laundry chute that drops down into the proposed laundry space. I'll have to look at the drawings to see where that would move the chute. I can see how taking out the window seat really gives the kitchen more space. It would just be hard to get rid of because I really like it. I will consider it though.

The small closet and pantry is structural. I wasn't crazy about having it there at all. (It was supposed to stick out 5 feet, but the structural engineer and architect found a way to make it only come out 2 feet. (I am removing 2 walls in that space and building right above it)

I wonder...if you retain the walls of the bedroom (for the stairwell) as I proposed will it improve the structural support above the dining room so you don't have to have the small pantry and closet by the front door?

Since we have already had the architect and structural engineer do the design of this, I really don't want to change. I really just want to see if there is a better way to design the kitchen area without changing walls. This is getting permitted this week or early next week. I am able to make changes-but really don't want to change walls. Maybe I should post a picture of the stairs from above to give you an idea of what is happening right above?

do you love the present permit plan?

If it helps you, I'll share our experience.

We spent nearly two months working with an architect firm (we had to get a structural engineer involved too) to design a to-the-studs total gut renovation. The same week the permits were to be submitted I discovered a major error on the drawings. I cried. Months wasted. We terminated the contracted and started over. That was about two years ago and when I think about that first layout I am so thankful for the restart. That first iteration was a horrible plan compared to the final we ended with and enjoy living in. Our house totally works hard for us and is planned so well.

I'm NOT suggesting you terminate contract, of course, this is just to say that taking a bit more time might get you a better house.

I have two more ideas to modify my suggestion and spare your laundry chute and possibly help with that structural issue at the front of the house, but I'll hold onto those for now. If you love the architects plan that's really truly all that matters.

within your plan, Mrs. Pete's kitchen layout with the range in your banquette area is probably your best option.

Too deep to start over. I've got about $20,000 to architect and structural engineer fees We have rented an apartment and will be moving within the next month. All I asked my architect to do was open up the kitchen and push laundry under the stairs. I focused most of our time working on making the upstairs what I wanted. (We've been working on this for about a year at this point.) So this is on me, not my architect. The builder told us not to worry about the kitchen because his designer would work on it. I just need ideas to discuss with the designer so I have a better understanding of what CAN be done. I could lose the the pantry down by the back door or do something else with that. Maybe I don't need the laundry room so deep (But I do need it to include where the laundry chute drops) Right now the tall pantry by the back door has a window (we were planning on taking out) 2 drawers and 2 cabinets. I use the cabinets and drawers, but the countertop just collects junk.

I really appreciate all the help. I could also make the banquette smaller seating.

Classical Kitchen · More Info

Benjesbride- I've been thinking about what you said about moving laundry space. Look at the pictures below and let me know if that is what you were thinking?

I didn't quite put the give to kitchen arrow the right spot, but I think you will know what I mean. Now, the onluy problem is laundry chute. I need to look at the upstairs drawing and see where that is above.

Hi, Sheila. I read your comments several times and I don't think I understand what you mean. I'm sorry. Are you referencing this comment "I have two more ideas to modify my suggestion and spare your laundry chute and possibly help with that structural issue at the front of the house."

If so, I was thinking you could swap the laundry closet and the hall closet in my proposed layout. Like this:

I have a feeling this is not what you were looking for.

Here is our kitchen now. Maybe this will help make it easier to "see"