Ya gotta admire a man for having the courage to be a grump!

Sometimes, not often, a person (male or female) can change their ways regarding positive outlooks. What you might want to consider is, after speaking your mind about the situation, that you suggest some couples counseling. If he says absolutely not, then all you can do is to wait a bit and try again. He should see that you are really trying to better the situation.

If he continues to be reticent about counseling, tell him that you are going to see a counselor to determine the best way to accept his negative thinking. After a few sessions with a competent person, you should have a better sense of what to do and how to approach the situation.

You cannot change him any more than he can change you. Keep looking on the bright side of things. You are an optimist. Remind him the cup half full not half empty.

Welcome to the KT. We love newcomers.

Seems like you are going through a difficult time. I hope the best for you.

Don't let him get you down!

Thanks. I feel like it's more noticeable now, since we have time to focus on it. He's had some health problems and had to retire early because of injuries, and I know it gets to him. But we are so blessed with our kids and life in general...

I think it's become a habit for him. He's Mr. Practical and I'm Miss Dreamer. And never the twain shall meet, it seems. I showed him a kitchen makeover from the kitchen message board here with a gorgeous laCanche range. And he said oh, we will never be 10,000 dollar range people...that doesn't happen to people like us.

Silly example I guess, but you get the idea...like he's afraid to dream and I'm afraid not to.

Same situation in my 62 years of married life....so I know how discouraging the situation can be.ugh....like climbing a mountain. I have learned that I cannot change him. We know "who we are" to each other. I very often have thought that we were drawn together from the 'get-go', because he "needed" someone to show him that the "cup was/is not empty, but at least half full", if that makes any sense. Probably I "needed" someone like my DH to keep me grounded instead of flying away with Mary Poppins; and I do see that he does just that. I think it is a good thing. It is a matter of each knowing the others' point of view and meeting somewhere at the halfway mark!

My father died at 93 and mother lasted 6 years after that. Dad was the sunny personality, mother was the negative force. For those 6 years, I kept hearing my father's voice in my ear, "Helen, that's enough!" when she got negative. They balanced each other out, and never argued, but had lots of discussions. In the last couple of years of Mother's life (she died at 95), I started saying the same thing when she got negative, "Mother, that's enough."

Sometimes people need the balance. Embrace it. and learn how to say "enough.'

I don't think you can help him until he's ready. Can you create some little routines that help him appreciate things? Like coffee outside together in the morning or sunset walks, or making meals special by making something you both love and serving it on nice plates? I do a lot of things like this for myself and they help my outlook. Just plating food is something that has become really important to me. Even if it's just cheese and grapes. Or making a blueberry lemonade in an oversized mason jar mug.

I think a key is learning how to live in the moment and take a break from worrying. So maybe if you can take his mind off his troubles just for a minute at a time, he can start to transition into positive mode. He doesn't need to have expectations - he just needs to take breaks and enjoy moments. The positive thinking you talk about requires a lot of trust. It doesn't just happen. It requires acceptance and practice. If he can clear some room in his head and stop thinking for a while, some of your positivity may rub off on him over time.

There are many things going on here. Men and women think differently. He could be hearing you in a totally different way than you intend.

If you are in a traditional marriage where your DH was the primary bread winner, he might be feeling that he has let you down. When you show him a $10,000 range, he might feel that he is inadequate because he can't provide things like this for you.

Again, men of a certain era identify strongly with what they did for a living. He had to retire early for medical reasons, so the decision was made for him. He could be suffering from depression.

Dreaming is one thing, but when you share grandiose ideas with someone who is struggling, I'm not quite sure what can become of this.

I think your DH should have a medical exam and might need medication.

At this stage of the game, I don't think you will change him. He was always the practical one, but also a pessimist.

What you can change his how you react to your husband.

People are different...and most of the time its not something we do deliberately...I am the worrier in our family, so in support of all us pessimistic folks out there, have some patience for us and dont let us bring you down, that is not out intention!

I think you've gotten a lot of great thoughts about your situtuation and any one of them could be possible. My first thought though was to make sure his issues aren't physical and that he may in deed be in need of a check up. It's not unreasonable to assume that he's a bit depressed, between the events in your recent history as well as the current changes you're both facing, it's not unusual. However, he should go for a check up and get his testosterone levels checked just to be sure. Being grumpy and negative is a symptom of low testosterone and it's also a marker for cancer. Then once you've ruled out anything physical, I would see about having him put on a mild anti depressant until things work themselves out.

My husband was always a grump and never saw the bright side of anything and then he was diagnosed with myeloma. After the diagnosis, his new primary care doctor checked his levels and sure enough, they were low. Once that was corrected, his spirit changed even during the most difficult time of his life and now he still manages to stay a lot more positive.

Reading your post made me really uncomfortable. I was starting to respond then waited. Read it a couple more times and waited. Wasn't going to respond but no, it needs a response. No other way to say it but get to the point. I think you're bringing on a lot of your own problems by beating your husband down. Calling him a "negative Nelly", sarcastically calling him "Mr. Practical", telling him "his attitude is preventing good things from happening" and saying his "attitude is cancelling out (your) positive one!" certainly would be viewed at least by some as insulting and berating. How are any of those comments productive? They're certainly NOT positive. I'm not really sure what you mean by "we are in flux as far as jobs, the future, and where we will live" but contextually I'd infer that you're not in a real stable financial situation yet you're looking at $10,000.00 stoves? I'd be worried too if I had health issues, forced to retire (probably at a reduced income) and then had to be afraid my wife was going to drop $10k to heat a can of soup! I'd suggest that he'd be more likely to not fear the future if you were more understanding of his situation too rather than pressuring him to adapt to your view. You say you're open to new ideas but clearly you are locked up tight from seeing his point of view. You don't specify how you're approaching the future (looking for more/other income, etc) or if you're just relying on the 'ask the universe' attitude to take care of things. Having health problems, being forced to retire and getting beat up day in and day out would be very trying to one's nerves. You see it as "Mr. Practical" and "Miss Dreamer", but maybe he sees it as Mr. Realistic and Ms Irresponsible? I really think you need to take a deep breath and rethink this situation. I had an aunt who used to constantly berate, criticize and pick apart my uncle and it was not a pleasant situation. She couldn't see what she did, she was insistent that she was right, he was wrong and no discussion would be allowed. No idea how long this has gone on between the two of you but I do think you need to open up some real communication. Not belittling or chewing out, but open, two-way conversation. If this hasn't gone too far. Good luck.

Help him make a "gratitude journal". It need not be a written thing, but even just a few minutes spent each day, perhaps the two of you talking about the things that went well that day, about the things you have to be thankful for. And they may not be material things, but things like your health, your friends, your family, your talents and gifts, your happy memories, the things you hold dear in your heart and the abundance the earth provides such as sunsets and bird songs. There's a lot of evidence that gratitude fosters greater happiness. Even allowing people, no matter where there "set point" of happiness may be to achieve greater happiness.

Giving thanks article

I also love the line from Arianna Huffington: Live life as if it's rigged in your favor.

Also, think about your own impact on him. Make a conscious effort to say 3 nice things to him each day....something you love about him...something he does you appreciate...something you're glad about...it will have a cumulative impact on him, you and your relationship.

not only can a glass be half full, but it is also re-fillable! Cynic has some really good points too.

Moni

Actually Cynic, you did get it wrong. All of it. You must not have been able to read what I was getting at. I have to respond.

I have never, ever berated my husband for how he feels. He is who he is, I am who I am. I chose him, married him, and know how he was and wouldn't be fair to change him.

I am not one of those nagging wives, believe me. There is no getting beat up day in and day out, whatever that means... Since he got hurt, I have been trying to find ways to help him through this process and try to find light at the end of this tunnel. I have helped him through the disappointment of his situation and tried to help him see the good in this huge change. I have read books on the subject and consulted people in similar situations. I encourage him to do things, see friends, and explore new careers.

Almost none of how I feel or have felt is on the surface. I have worried and been depressed as well, but try to keep it under wraps and present a happy outlook regardless. There is a lot I have dealt with that he doesn't even know about, in order to not bring more stress on him. I take his situation into consideration and have gotten skilled at finding the right time to discuss certain topics, and broach them in just the right way. It is not a litany of constant complaints and belittling. I would never be that wife and he would definitely not put up with it. I am laid back, quiet, and try to find solutions for issues we are facing in a logical way.

I have not now or ever sat back on my laurels waiting. I don't plan my life on a wish and a prayer. I work hard and AT THE SAME TIME, try to have a positive outlook. I went back to work after he became injured, took a low paying job and just completed a teaching certification to better our situation.

We are very compatible when it comes to finances, and are very conservative. We are proud that we handle money well and have NO credit card debt. I would never spend money, even a small amount without consulting him.

You made it sound like I am constantly interrupting his depression with pages of.million dollar kitchens ruffled in his face. He doesn't have to worry about me buying an expensive appliance for "soup". I should be able to casually show my husband of 20 years a beautiful kitchen without being considered inconsiderate. Sheesh.

I wasn't sarcastic, he is Mr. PRACTICAL, and proud of it. He has always been like this, even when we both had full time, high paying jobs and no health problems.

He feels like certain things/ opportunities are not meant for him and never will be. I feel like, why not me? Why not us? Does it hurt to dream? When bad things happen to me, my instinct is to try to find the positive in it. This is who I am and how I think.

My original question was, if you are a person who believes in or practices positive thinking, will it be 'cancelled out' by someone else's negative thoughts. If you have experience with that, share. If you think it is hogwash, feel free to scroll on.

I wasn't asking for marriage advice.

"I try to tell him that his attitude is preventing good things from happening."

"I have never, ever berated my husband for how he feels. "

I'm getting mixed messages. I wish the best for both of you.

Berating is not the same as a conversation. When someone buys a lottery ticket and immediately says 'oh this is a waste of money and I won't win anyway'...wouldn't you say, 'oh, don't think like that, try to be positive!'...Is that berating them?

I guess being new here in discussion is not helping my cause, since I seem to be at a disadvantage. I appreciate those of you who offered advice to me but I feel sorta targeted for being the new kid in town outside of the clique...

I posted here because I've been reading this forum awhile but have not jumped in to a conversation. Most of what I've read is interesting and friendly. It seemed like a light discussion to have about thinking, like the abundance checks or burying money on new year's day...didn't think it would turn into taming of the shrew and I'm the Shrew!

One of the obstacles to positive thinking is fear. You can deny the fear, or take a break from the fear, or trust that you'll be fine. All of these things are hard to do. They take practice. Practice takes motivation. So you can't just flip a switch.

I think taking breaks from the fearful thinking is probably the easiest way to start. And fix the easy problems. And do something productive every day to work on the harder problems. For you that might be doing something healthy physically, something healthy mentally, something productive and something income-related. Add those four items to your daily "to do" list.

Oh, and you don't have to defend yourself to strangers on the Internet. Take the info that is useful to you. A polite "thank you" to the rest for their comments can be a graceful nonreactive acknowledgement for posts you don't agree with. You don't owe anyone any explanations for what you choose to do. You don't have to feel attacked because no one here really knows you. All opinions are valuable even if people draw inaccurate conclusions, because they help us all understand how other people think.

Find a counselor -- for YOU. It may take trying more than one, and you will need to devote time and money to getting professional help. This is not a DIY exercise (prayer, positive thinking, self-reflection). The journey requires a professional 'guide' and the courage to discover yourself.

You are here saying YOU are unhappy and unsettled.

You are complaining about your husband's effect upon YOU.

You are the only person YOU can change.

I believe that *everyone* can benefit greatly from some professional guidance about where -- and who -- he or she IS at some point in our adult lives. Sadly, we usually postpone this useful work until we become unhappy enough to 'risk' it.

I hope you find a good therapist to lead you on your discovery.

I have to add that I do appreciate the ideas shared above. I am sure there is a lot at play here as far as his outlook on things, which have only been compounded by the current situation.

But even before that, he had the same point of view on life.

The only time I try to change his way of thinking outright is when he says it in front of our three kids. Kids are impressionable, and often internalize what they hear. If they hear 'nothing good ever happens to someone named (our last name)', they may start to believe it. I HAVE to be the one to try and negate it when that happens.

It isn't as if this is a 24/7 occurrence. But when it happens, it bothers me.

" it's just they way THEY are"

We are all of value here. We all see the world a different way, through our own eyes, our own experiences.

As in any group, take what you need and appreciate the time of all, but do not be too quick to discard ideas, you never know when further experience may show you the value of a certain way of looking at the world.

Paintedpeggies, as you continue to post, we get a clearer picture of what is happening with your husband.

When kids are involved, it is a whole other ball game. Your DH needs a good physical and therapy if he will go. He needs to understand that what he says to your children matters.

Maybe you only wanted 'an ear', and we jumped in with 'solutions'?

There's nothing to be lost by your DH having a physical and getting a referral to a psychiatrist. He may have always been 'like this' because he's always had a chemical imbalance.

You did choose this man -- pessimism and all. Did either of you expect that he'd change? (My basis for suggesting that you understand YOU better.)

I think that in some respects we are all naturally wired to have certain personality traits but in large part a lot of it is our upbringing and own personal life experiences. And maybe he was surrounded by that growing up himself, if so, it's a perfect example as to why you prefer he tone it down at least when he's in front of the kids and smartly so. Not everyone needs therapy, his doctor will probably want to take some blood work and can help determine what he needs from there. Who knows, it could just be something in his chemistry, for my husband just a very light anti depressant made all the difference. He was so against it at first but once he took a chance with it, he found that it wasn't all in his head and there's really nothing wrong with taking something that helps balance us out.

Mental health disorders can be diagnosed and treated by medical doctors (now or later if your employment status affects your health insurance coverage).

I reject the notion that behaviors and attitudes are hard-wired and unchangeable. Yes, people can have personality tendencies, but what we do and how we react to the outside world, in the absence of a medical condition, involve making choices. To say "this is how I am" or "this is how s/he is" is saying that that person's behavior is problematic in some way but there's no desire on their part to change it.

If personal conduct and attitudes weren't changeable, there would be no one working as counselors, advisors, trainers, personal image consultants, yada yada yada. Frequently certain jobs require people to display particular outward personality traits or conduct and not infrequently these need to be practiced and learned. "I can't be that way" really means "I don't want to do that", because anything can be learned. Even introverted physicians are pushed and taught (usually) the need to be more outwardly warm, friendly and communicative in treating patients.

"Even introverted physicians are pushed and taught (usually) the need to be more outwardly warm, friendly and communicative in treating patients"

Honestly? how many really succeed at that? Most all of the physicians I work with either enjoy people or have very poor people skills. And of the very few who might be faking it, I have no doubt that once they leave to go home, they slip right back into their comfort zone. Also, therapy isn't to change someone's behavior and make them something they aren't, it's to help someone discover or learn why those behaviors exist and to work through what's causing it, so I completely disagree with your perspective. It's the same with musicians, a very large number of vocalists are very shy and introverted, on stage they do fine, off stage, not so much.

Why do you think multiple children, in a large family or even twins are all different? While placement and social situations within the family plays a part, there are still aspects of their personality that each sibling is born with.

It's okay for you to have a different opinion, your experiences sound like they've been somewhat different.

My comment was based on the experience of one of my kids (an extrovert, not that it matters) who recently attended medical school. I was told that MUCH more emphasis is put on training the students for the patient experience. Though, it may be that before it was almost none and now it may be just some. Also attention is paid to some personality screening for admissions, and again it could be they've replace "none" with just "some". Yes, we've all encountered docs who seem ill-equipped for their work. Many (but certainly not all) like that I've encountered have been foreign born or not fully acclimated to American culture.

I spent my career in a people-facing profession, where we engaged image consultants and professional career coaches to work privately with our bright and promising newcomers whose interpersonal skills needed alterations, enhancements, or changes. It did work.

Snidely -- I specified "psychiatrist" in hope the the patient would find one who still practices 'talk therapy'. Yes, any MD can prescribe and monitor meds.

Welcome, Paintedpeggies. Lots of interesting initial takes and feedback. I think a lot of an individual's personality is from experiences. But I also strong believe that some traits, mannerisms and so on are hardwired. Health, hormones and brain chemicals also influence our perspectives and personality.

I applaud you for gently pointing out to your kids that there are other perspectives.

Briefly, about "positive" thinking: it can have a downside. I've met determined positive thinkers who have (probably without realizing it) made it downright impossible to have physical and or emotional pain or distress acknowledged. (And please understand that I am not assuming or suggesting that you are one of these personalities.) Sometimes a strong personality trait of always looking at the positive, can feel like a straight jacket of positivity to someone not feeling too chipper who doesn't feel heard, acknowledged, or feels no space to share where they are at.

It (focussed positivity) can be a device to avoid deep connection. I've seen people in distress ignored, minimized or sidelined by those who feared another's pessimism, pain, heartache and resulting mood could be contagious. I don't think it necessarily is. Surely people will want to take breaks from a constant din of someone's complaining or pessimism. But before taking a break or fearing contagion or countering with smiling optimism, I'd hope that the positive-bent person can spend genuine time hearing and connecting with what's in another's heart. It lets both parties grow.

I am a good and empathetic listener. A friend can call me in tears and I will listen attentively. As things move of and understanding and comfort and support are offered and received, I can sense (depending on the friend) when a bit of sweet humor, or a "twisted black humor" comment can be made. Later the person is apt to be able, once heard, to share a giggle or laugh.

I understand that the relationship with you and your husband is an ongoing, subdued one (no tearful late night phone call sort of thing) that seems to be about thinking styles and different approaches to everyday life. I'm sure this can find you feeling weary if its as constant and through and through as you indicate (that he was always of a negating, pessimistic or functionally pragmatic bent).

I hope that you have felt supported and that you take the opportunity to hook up with some affordable and effective councillor or support system. Maybe learn a few more self-calming techniques to help you not get discouraged.

chisue, I agreed with your comments (as I normally do). The term psychiatrist is sometimes off-putting and has a stigma for some. It shouldn't but it does. You suggestion to start with a PCP and get a referral was thoughtful, following another doctor's direction to do so may be easier for some than cold calling a mental health professional.

Dear Paintedpeggies: I do hope you will consider staying around the table for awhile. Serious questions can and will be heard differently in each listeners' ears. FACT! That is it! OhMyGosh....how many times have I 'ran with' a topic that I have heard it one way upon first look....and sometimes responded very "oddly" when I looked again. Like: Whoo....makes no sense! When you have gotten to know some posters (like me) you will sorta "consider the source".....meaning that in the nicest way. Some here will have a "legal" bent or "medical", or phycological, educational....just whatever "their" path in life has taken them............and they will respond according to their life experiences. So, stay with us and explore our many faces and ideas and knowledge......if it doesn't give you some ideas about your question, it will expand your KNOWLEDGE about the people who share this planet with you.

Looking forward to finding out more about you and where you are from and how you view the world. Nanny...who is lives in Southern Oregon and has travelled and lived in many States and European countries and always tries to expand my world as my traveling days dwindle.

Nanny, I read the first part of this thread the other day and didn't have time to comment, but I wanted to tell you I could have written your first comment! Dh and I are quite different from each other, but somehow we "fit". Well, most of the time. :)

All in all, I do believe people are hard-wired to have specific tendencies and attitudes. Dh so often sees the glass half-empty that I laugh to myself now, and expect nothing different; it was pretty hard for me in the beginning though. One of his brothers is even worse, and another is a very positive person. Same upbringing. Hang in there, PP. It does sound like your dh is rather depressed right now; hopefully he'll find a hobby or interest on which to focus. Try not to expect of him what you know he won't spit out, and perhaps you won't be so disappointed.

I have heard that as well about the medical schools Snidley and I hope over the long term it helps, maybe it's just too soon to tell.

I think it will help but remnants of this problem will always remain.

My kid has said that as with undergrad admissions to top schools, some percentage of med students will always be the brilliant/socially awkward types. We've talked about it at length. S/he (gender disguised) thinks the problem is that during the first two years of med school, students are drowned (and then tested in a national board) with a staggering torrent of information to learn and regurgitate. First and foremost, the schools need to admit students whose past academic records suggest they have developed superior "student skills" to allow them to deal with the challenge of digesting a large volume of information in a short period of time. Ergo, the braniacs. Other desirable characteristics are secondary but with some (like people skills) now being given greater attention. As time permits.

Thanks for that insight, SW. I imagine your dinner conversations are as fascinating as mine are when my kid joins us and is in the mood to bring some newer information/things/insights to the table. I'm so in awe of some of the newer stuff, that somedays I really would like to live much longer to watch our world grow better and more wise......then I look at reality and take a deep breath. I'm glad you are here!

Conversations are always interesting with them, they're all very accomplished in different fields (and a comparison to us with no malicious intent makes Mom and Dad look like kindergarten dropouts). Our talks are mostly by long distance calls rather than over the dinner table because all went away for college and have continued to pursue their educations and careers far from home. So far. We see even the most distant ones several times a year and talk with each every few days (thanks to the ease of modern communication). Don't know where we'd be without commutes during which a phone call to Mom and/or Dad can kill time.

Ah yes, the commute calls, we do those too, as we like to joke, "keeping each other company". I don't think there is anything more gratifying that seeing our kids live happy healthy and successful lives.

In regards to the medical field, I do see where the demand for better bedside manner has risen especially now that physicians are moving away from private practices' and into hospital owned clinics instead, there are so many reasons why it's important. I just think that some people have a natural ability to interact more comfortably than others and that can't be taught. You either have it or you don't. :c)

There's "positive thinking" and there's La-La-La...Cover-my-ears-and-hum... Rose-colored-glasses...I-don't-think-about-'those things'...Ignore-it-and-it-will-go-away. Reaching for the stars is fine, as long as you also watch where your going while you do it.

"You either have it or you don't."

Around in a circle and back again. In my professional career, part of which involved mentoring and developing young entrants, training to overcome a shy nature and to develop gravitas and a positive, confident manner that even strangers would find engaging was almost always effective. It wasn't bedside manner in a medical sense but it was the equivalent in the context of being a business adviser. Your experience may differ.