Prelim kitchen plans - help with concerns please?
Hi all,
This is the preliminary plans for a new construction. I've read the "New to Kitchens" thread and I have a few questions/concerns.
Background: We are a family of 5...2 adults and 3 children (ages 5-8). No plans to make our family any bigger. We are a family of want-to-be chefs :) so we are in the kitchen a good bit. We homeschool and the dining room table and island will be used as work areas.
The kitchen faces the dining area which then flows into the living room to the right.
Questions/Concerns:
Will I regret not having a trash drawer near the prep sink? Should I move it?
I can not see a convenient place to store dishes. Ideally I'd like to store the plates in the island but is there room for that with the prep sink and MW drawer?
Should I consider an alternative location for the MW drawer?
I'm concerned about the distance between the island and refrigerator (about 3 ft). Ideally I'd like a seat on that side of the island but I don't think there's enough room...any thoughts?
Is the placement of the prep sink in the island ideal?
We will not be having a freezer in the pantry as I feel it takes up too much storage space. I'm not sold on the idea of a corner pantry but I see no way around it.
Is a breakfast pantry common these days? Is it functional for this space or can that area be used differently?
My husband is set on the double ovens so those have to stay. The coffee station is another favorite of his. I would like to keep the sink in front of a window but if it sacrifices functionality I may have to change my expectations.
If you see any other concerns please do tell.
Comments (25)
traci_from_seattle
7 years agojocrochet
7 years agoRelated Discussions
4th set of Prelim-Please review floor plan
Comments (11)If we were going to label, I'd label what is now called the "living room" as the family room, and the unlabeled existing space to the right of the entry, the "living room". I like this quite a bit better than your last round. I don't think you NEED more than 1 master bedroom wall for bed placement--just make sure it makes sense and you have enough room with that 1 placement. In both cases of the doors to the back deck, I'd change their door swing so they swing against the wall rather than out into room space when they are opened. On option I can see for your master entry, if you don't like what you have now, is to create a bit of a hallway entrance, and change your walkin closet to a set of wall wardrobes or reach in closets and pantry system... I think I might also try to at least have the option to close off the play room from the Entry by putting in a door (maybe barn door, if that goes with the rest of your interior decor)... I know it will probably usually be open, but having the option to close it off (by sound and visually) from what I am calling the LR, where I imagine I'd probably have it set up to be a quieter area of the house for adults (function similar to an away room), I might want to make sure the teen games are separated from the LR. I can't remember your children's ages, but I think if they were younger (7 and down) for a period of time, that that playroom wouldn't be used as a playroom for several years because it isn't close enough to you (they like to be close). But, IIRC, your kids are in that tween age category where they are moving out of needing to play near mom and probably wanting more separation. If that is the case, then they might like a play room (video game room) with more separation... Otherwise, I'd still suggest you switch the location of the boy room and the playroom. (I know that wasn't a thrilling suggestion before for your reasons)...See MoreKitchen addition plans- lots to look at, please help with layout
Comments (28)Part of why I suggested putting the big ref on the back wall is to eliminate the turn at the ref. The ref where the ovens are and the ovens at "alt-ref" can work too. Not at the original ref location because its kinda bad to have the open oven doors and somebody seated at the stools. It's ok for a micro, but not for something where the doors are hot. My personal preference would be to not have oven doors in a traffic aisle. Looking at it again, maybe park an inexpensive drinks ref on the dining room wall if you retain full depth cabinets. A nice looking dorm undercounter or one of those 2x2 ref-frz like the small lg unit. Possibly a bar sink on the dining room wall run for a complete drinks area there. If it has the pantry and a microwave, it easily becomes the express food area for kids. If you want, you can buy a simpler, maybe smaller main ref without water and ice in the door. The prep sink question is a good one. In this arrangement, you might not actually need one on the island (five people will chime in and disagree)! Its a bit more convenient, but not much. If the main ref moves to the back wall, you need one on the island even less. If the main ref moves to where the ovens are shown, you should have one - so that you don't have to cross the cooking area to get to the water. Where exactly it goes is partly dependent on what type of ref you're getting. A sxs or a french door needs landing space opposite the ref - behind you when you're standing in front of it. A single door ref needs landing space to the side without the hinges. So a single door ref, put the sink in the lower right corner of the island as drawn. A two door ref, the upper right corner. The other question about island width was a place I didn't use enough words (again). Without an appliance, the entire run of cabinets on the dining room wall could be less deep by 6 to 12" and the island could take up those inches in width....See Moreconcern about uneven kitchen subfloor - please help
Comments (5)Thanks for the quick replies: To swmf1977: tiles will be 20 X 20 porcelain To bmorepanic: Thanks for the link to John Bridge deflection calculator. I'll work it tonight To bill Vincent: Plywood subfloor is three quarters inch which is nailed to 2 x 8 Doug Fir joists , 16 in. OC, span is 12 feet. If you would be willing to look at my floor plan (http://www.flickr.com/photos/w7jpg/5011009456/ ) which shows the floor elevations using points that are typically corners of the base cabinet footprint. As far as slope goes, the points C, D, E, and F are on the east wall. If we head west starting with point F (-0.1875) to point G (-0.500), the floor drops 0.3125 inches in six feet or 0.05 in. per foot which is about 3/64" per foot. Continuing west from point G, which is the end of the peninsula, to point N, an outside corner of the base cabinet against the west wall, the floor drops .0625" in four feet (almost level ) and drops another 0.125" in the 24" run to the wall. So the major drop is in the first six feet heading west from the east wall. Going North to South starting at point A (-0.250") on the North wall across the open middle of the "U" to the closest corner at the end of the peninsula, point H (-0.500"), the drop is a quarter of an inch over eight feet. To net it out and to circle back to my main concern : In every reference I've read the rule that seems universal when installing base cabinets is to find the highest point on the (cabinet footprint) floor plan and level the cabinets to that point. In my floor plan, the highest point is point C (0.000) in the extreme north east corner of the room, behind the sink cabinet. The lowest is at the end of the peninsula (points H and G (-0.500). Is a half inch too much of a drop to shim up? The other factor is that the base cabinets will be covered with Silestone, beginning at points A/L on the north wall and ending at the end of the peninsula which includes the cabinet run on the east wall. My understanding is that the Silestone installers want dead n*ts level base cabinetry. What do the pro cabinet installers do with this one?? Looking for more comments, please. Here is a link that might be useful: kitchen floor plan...See Morepics of my prelim cabinet layout- help requested for proportions
Comments (30)MareLuce, I looked at the White Collar kitchen, it is very nice. Here's a lifestyle difference which may explain my location choice for fridge- 90% of our meal eating is at the countertop (we currently have a peninsula instead of an island and the only time I sit at the table is when there's no chairs left for me at the island). So in MY mind the ovens are 'out of the way' and the fridge is 'prime real estate' lol. In my mind if I put the fridge over there I will have snackers walking through the prep/cook zone to access the fridge. (I am frequently cooking dinner as the kids get home from school, and I serve dinner a couple hours later, it just depends on what it is I am cooking. Even a casserole or lasagna I prep early and put it in the oven later) Beuhl, thanks, I can move the aisle width. Is that 54" counter to counter or cabinet to cabinet? Thanks for the clarification, I hadn't noticed the counters were extra deep along BOTH walls, I just noticed it on the sink wall in your diagram. Yes, I did know the fridge had to stick out a certain amount for door operation. DW: I am familiar with prepping over a d/w as that is my current arrangement. Perhaps because we live in Michigan I don't mind the heat from it. Although I certainly won't be planning any prep over that 26" on the d/w side of the sink. I was planning for a 5foot prep space on the left side of the sink. Why does that seem too small of a prep space. On my diagram it's labeled 57" plus there will be 3" of counter at the sink because my sink is a 30" in a 36" base = 60" of prep space to the left of the sink. (left when I am facing the sink, so right as looking at the diagram on paper) Not enough? Other lifestyle things that matter to me: Toaster oven is an important appliance in our lives and we use it A LOT. One of our current bottle necks in our current kitchen is toaster oven close to the range. People trying to use the toaster oven to heat various items while I'm prepping dinner or breakfast. That is one reason I dedicated a good chunk of countertop for it (and the coffee maker). I really know that space will be used for secondary prep at least once a day while someone else is working at the other main prep area. mw drawer- I'm tall and I hate the idea of cleaning out a mw drawer that is at counter height. My husband is NOTORIOUS for not putting a cover on his plate of food and so I'm stuck cleaning up the splatters. Other than that I'm not opposed to a m/w drawer. As far as a pass through that's not possible- laundry room is on the other side (washer dryer back up immediately to that wall in fact). Several times you have mentioned dirty dishes on the counter. I am just learning that is something people do. We never do that. The thought never even occurred to me. Typically I have the d/w empty before I start prep. If there is a conflict, then the dirty dishes go right into the sink and I hand wash them. I still spend a lot of time hand scrubbing my pots/pans because either they don't come as clean as I like in the d/w or because they are not d/w safe (cast iron, non stick). Anyways, I'm going to continue to study your proposed layout. Maybe I'll even draw it out with chalk on our driveway. :) I'll show my husband some pictures of wall sinks. The main thing I hope you will still answer for me is addressing the prep space on my island. I really thought 5' was enough and that because of the depth of the island at 60" that the seating side could still be used for the rare larger projects. Please advise. much appreciated, illini....See More
cpartist
7 years agojocrochet
7 years agocpartist,
Thanks for the feedback. This is a custom build and the plans need some work...we have plenty of time to make it right for our family. I don't think you'll be able to see this well but here are the plans.
Lavender Lass
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoMaybe something like this? Although, I'd make the window over the sink as large as possible. Just a few ideas : )
Also, I'd make the front porch bigger. It would be nice to have it across the front. Maybe even part of it screened?
mama goose_gw zn6OH
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoI like the way lavender_lass has opened the laundry to the kitchen, and included the reach-in pantry. Since the study has two windows, would the following plan work? It separates the clean-up zone from the prep and cooking zones. The clean-up mess is more hidden, and the cooktop and hood are more of a focal point. A helper can be loading or unloading the DW, or setting the table without entering the other work areas. The cook can go from the cooktop to the fridge and pantry, without crossing the clean-up zone, and the trash pull-out is shared between zones. There are also spots for extra preppers.
The fridge is still convenient to the DR and breakfast cabinets. The MW drawer could be located beside the fridge, under the breakfast storage, or you could opt for a less expensive MW on a shelf. There is step back space in front of the fridge, and landing space on the island. The narrow cabinet beside the prep sink could house cutting boards or sheet pans.
The counter beside the laundry sink can be used as a drop zone for groceries coming from the garage entry, for loading to the pantry, or for laundry baskets.
ETA a couple of alternate LR plans, and a pic of huango's appliance garage.
Ignore the fridge and ovens in the following pic--you would have counter space beside the clean-up sink, and I drew a corner susan on the plan. The doors and shelves of the appliance garage could be adjusted to the height of the uppers on that wall. If you use the long counter for baking, the stand mixer could be housed on the bottom pull-out
Amanda's thread, for more info.
rebunky
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agojocrochet
7 years agocpartist
7 years agoWell then it's easy to move things around so your DH doesn't have to look at stinky clothes while getting food out of the pantry. :)
Here's the changes I made based on mama's plan. Now your pantry is a walk in. I used pocket doors separating the laundry from the pantry and the pantry from the kitchen.
As for if there's enough room for stools on the side? No there is not enough room. You didn't have it on your plan either.
mama goose_gw zn6OH
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoExcellent idea cpartist! I'd put the slider in the dividing wall between the freezer and ovens, so that there is no interference with the plumbing for the sink, and electrical for the fridge.
jocrochet, you don't have space for seating on either end of the island--you barely have minimum aisle space, which is why I positioned the fridge so that you have space to bend and search for things in the bottom shelves and back. As a matter of fact, I would ditch the clipped corners (although I love them), and make the seating straight across--your guests will thank you for more elbow room--maybe not literally, but they will appreciate it. Then you could shave a few inches off the width of the island, and add that to the fridge aisle.
ETA, is the island ap 7.5'? If you square up the edges, you might be able to have a seat in front of the coffee station, since there's no large appliance there, and only if you keep a stool tucked completely under the counter when not in use. There really isn't enough elbow space, but making the overhang deeper, with a pony wall for support might work. LL had moved the island closer to the back wall, to close up the work aisle, so the deeper overhang might fit in with your original plan anyway:
BTW, since you have the freezer close, have you considered all fridge/all freezer columns? They can be separated, and might give you more fridge space.
cpartist
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoUser
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agoI would give my right eye for the direction CP artist has this going. Seeing that corner pantry gave me a bit of a twitch...
re trash - we have the big trash near the prep sink and a smaller trash pull out under the clean up sink. The advantages we find are 1) we generate more trash at the prep stage than clean up stage and 2) the clean up stage trash is generally stinky so we can empty that more often.
Re island - if you have not had a raised bar island before, please really consider the decision. I found my one experience with one awful and couldn't wait to take a sledge hammer to it our last kitchen reno.
re DW - if you put dish drawers in the island across from the DW - easy peasy emptying.
If you are interested in how CP artist's plan might look, my kitchen is a bit similar. Our pantry is outside the kitchen and we really like it that way. My frig is roughly where CP has your ovens.
http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3702196/nightowls-2016-kitchen-reveal
mama goose_gw zn6OH
7 years agofriedajune
7 years agocpartist
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agojocrochet
7 years agoBuehl
7 years agomama goose_gw zn6OH
7 years agolast modified: 7 years agojocrochet
7 years ago
sena01
7 years agoAnother idea that keeps the main sink on the long wall. I'm thinking a 5'3"x6'6" island with seats on 2 sides.
practigal
7 years agomama goose_gw zn6OH
7 years agoIf your heart is still set on having the clean-up sink under a window, you could do as practigal suggests. You would still be zone crossing, but you have a wide aisle, so the trade-off might be worth it to you:
jocrochet
7 years agopractigal
7 years ago
jocrochetOriginal Author