How detailed do you need to be? How important is the appearance and the budget?

Minimum closets are always 2-feet deep clear.

Circulation spaces are 3'-6" to 4'-0 clear.

You need to go to your nearest architect and have a discussion.

Good luck with your project.

Most important is that we have a layout that is helpful in caring for our very handicapped daughter- hence the bedroom connecting to the master bedroom and the large bathroom with roll in shower. Second important would be that the house fits into our fairly modest budget constraints both in the cost of construction and also in energy efficiency to keep our utility costs low. The architect costs were considerably higher than the cost of just a draftsman and our general contractor said just using a draftsman would be sufficient.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but a draftsman would be sufficient if you had a plan that really worked well but what you have is a bunch of rooms off the living room which gives it the feel of an apartment.

This house as built would be very dark with no light coming into the rooms.

There is no privacy for the bedrooms as there should be and your kitchen is off by itself.

The only way to get to your backyard is through the working space of your kitchen.

The house has no flow and with a child with special needs, flow from space to space is even more important! You need a house where it's easy to get from room to room and for each room to lead to the next space. Each room in this house is self contained in such a way that all spaces will be closed off.

My builder told me that all I needed was a draftsman so I listened to him. However, I have a design background (having even been an interior design major for four days before I realized I'd have to work with people), and even with my design background, it's taken me over 1 year to get a plan that works well and looks good from the outside and the inside. And I had no special needs that need to be accounted for.

If I had just worked with my draftsman and not had the help of the folks here, my house would have been a frankenstein. It's because of the folks here and especially the architects on this forum, I was able to modify my plans enough that I will now have a fabulous house.

However, my draftsman did NONE of it. Even when I gave it all drawn out using a design program, he would still make mistakes. He came up with NONE of the design changes. They all came from either myself or from the help of those here. In fact I have a thread now where I'm asking about my front porch. So even now with my plans in permitting, I'm still refining my elevations.

From what you've drawn if you just work with a draftsman who doesn't have a design background you'll be severely limiting yourself and not getting all you need with your daughter's special needs.

You need an architect or someone with strong design skills. Someone who can think with a paper and pencil and not just with a CAD program. It doesn't have to cost an arm and a leg. Several folks here have done what are called design charettes. Here's a link to architectrunnerguy's design charettes he does with his clients. They sit down with him and his paper and pencil for anywhere from 4 hours to all day and by the end of the time, they basically have a house idea which he then refines. Scroll down to his 5/12 post http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3887104/what-should-i-expect-from-my-architect-long?n=17

Cpartist- you did not offend or upset me in the least. There are things I don't love about our floorplan- I don't like how far away the laundry area is from the upstairs bedrooms. I don't like that my older kids rooms don't have as much lighting as I would like, as they are in the basement with just egress windows. I don't like that the family room area downstairs will have no natural light as it is currently designed. (I figure I have to live with those things to stay in budget because a finished basement is way cheaper than building a larger ranch or a second story.) But the things you pointed out that you saw as bad planning I THINK are exactly what we do want. (And maybe it is because of these odd wants that we can't find any floorplans or already built homes that meet our needs.)

We have a child that is medically fragile, and we have a lot of nurses and therapist work with her in our home and we are expecting the amount of nursing help we need as she gets older to increase. Because of that we need our bedroom right by hers because most nights we don't anticipate having nursing help. And we need her bedroom near an open family room area that is appropriate for nurses to work with her in and sit with her in. If she is sleeping and we have night nursing to give us a night off they can sit in the family room right outside her bedroom and hear if she needs help because of a seizure or her pulse/ox alarm going off. That is the reason why our bedrooms are right off of the family room.

I also love my kitchen. I love to make big messes in it and don't want every nurse and therapist that comes into our home to see the kitchen from the front room. We have a lot of company in our house where someone stops by for 5 minutes to an hour and I would love if most of that company never caught a glimpse of my kitchen. So we made a kitchen big enough for the whole family to fit in, but also tucked out of view from when you first walk into the home.

It does seem like the spaces are very closed off but when you have a nurse in your home 50 hours a week helping to care for your child, sometimes it is nice for you and the nurse if you don't always feel like you are in the same room. (I say that having nurses that we absolutely love and they take great care of our daughter, but they don't like to feel like we are watching their every move and sometimes I feel like being an introvert and don't want to be in the same room with them. . . I hope that makes sense without sounding rude. In home nursing allows our daughter to live at home instead of a hospital or institution but it is hard having someone in your home with you 50 hours a week.)

I see the downstairs family room as another space that my kids can hang out in or have friends over and not feel like their little sisters nurse is right there watching them as they get older. Or also so they have a place to play and hang out without driving our nurses crazy when they get loud and annoying as kids tend to do at times!

We are probably working with a much smaller budget than most people who are building a home, especially a custom home. We are looking to build solely because we can't find a home that meets our unique needs, and by the time we paid to add on or remodel a home to do that, I think we would be spending close to what it would cost to just build from the ground up. We definitely are stretching the budget just to be building in the first place.

I was hoping that between our draftsman and lots of helpful people here we could get our floorplan to be the best it can be while still being very modest in budget.

A design charette sounds like a wonderful thing to do. . . I've never heard of that and not sure how I would find someone to do that for us or if it is in our budget. I am hoping that this board will help us at least avoid some obvious mistakes in our design or ideas.

You might want to hinge your daughter's bedroom door on the right instead of the left. As it is, you have to go around the door to get to the bathroom. With LR furniture in place, that could be difficult. Or, if you move the closet, the bedroom could have direct access to the bathroom without going in the LR.

Perhaps you'd like to be able to see the porch and pool (therapy pool? Hot tub?) from the house. And certainly not have to walk through the working part of the kitchen to get to the porch.

Yiu might open the stair walls to the upstairs, so that the DR and LR have some connection, and to let more light downstairs. You could still gate the top of the stairs if there is a danger of someone falling.

Check local codes for legal basement bedrooms and living space. Your draftsman might not be aware of specific codes. Check with your resources (I know you have many) for their experiences if they have built. Around here, each basement bedroom and living room has to have one egress window (which may mean a very deep window well...the windows have to be big enough for a firefighter to get through with gear on) Other windows can be smaller.

Casey, if we can go less than 30ft deep would we significantly reduce the cost to build? I tried to design with max depth of 30 and just a rectangle because that is the cheapest I heard. I could probably make it less deep, not not by much and then it would be longer and I think it already looks pretty long. I don't mind poles in the basement though.

First, let me say - bless you and your family. My mother has been a pediatric Home Health nurse for 30+ years and I know what you go through is tough. It's great to hear you have wonderful nurses. That being said, be sure you have enough "room" in your life to take on a project of this size. Building is such a big job, even with a builder. It takes up way more head-space than I ever anticipated. Last night I laid in bed awake until 2am thinking about all the things that need done in the next 4 weeks.

Next, I think you would be very well off to go to your draftsman WITHOUT a plan already drawn up. Instead, meet with him/her and tell them exactly what you just told us. They will be able to design a home that fits these needs and I promise you'll end up with a better plan. Don't get anxious over the insistence here that you have to use an architect to get a good plan. There ARE good design firms out there, and even some builders who have in house design. Along these lines tho, you mention budget will be tight. For this reason, I would strongly urge you to find a builder with a FIXED contract. This will mean more work up front, but there will be no surprises, unless you change something after the contract is signed. It will also mean you know exactly how much you're spending upfront. If costs go over on a fixed contract, the builder/supplier pays - not the owner. A friend of mine recently built a new $250k lake house and was within $500 of their fixed contract price. It can be done!

Do you have the lot yet and what location are you in? What does the site look like? Any chance you can do a walk out basement? OR a single story without basement? (Although I love basements!) they are expensive due to the sheer amount of concrete work that is required. You'll also likely need your plumbing and electrical plan since the rough in's will be done prior to pouring the basement. Or maybe you could consider an earth home, since you want to maintain low utilities?

Most importantly, don't rush into anything. The more research and work you do upfront, the better you'll be in the long run. I'm excited to watch your progress!

Abby, how big is your property and what are the setbacks?

Where is your garage?

Where are you building?

How many other children do you have that need to be accounted for and what are the other children's ages?

What is the property like? Will you be able to have a walk out basement?

I hear what you're saying but I still think this house as you've created it is not it. I think there might be a better way to arrange everything and still give you what you need. Hopefully you can find someone to help you do so and yes you do have us here.

Whatever you do, don't rush into it because you want something that will work for you and your family for years to come.

As bp and I mentioned, it would be nice to have access to the backyard and not only through your working area of the kitchen for example. There might be a way to incorporate your needs and privacy without looking into your bedroom from the living room.

BTW: I never specified just an architect. I wrote the following:

From what you've drawn if you just work with a draftsman who doesn't have a design background you'll be severely limiting yourself and not getting all you need with your daughter's special needs.

You need an architect or someone with strong design skills.

That can be an architect, a designer or there are some good draftsmen but make sure the draftsman has a design background too. Mine was an engineer with not an ounce of design skills.

Do your nurses require their own space? My parents have in-home caregivers 24-7, so the requirements are different, but it seems that nurses would like a nook for their personal items, a spot to read or relax when they are not needed that is not mutually intrusive, but still close enough to share a cuppa with someone. As well as a place to record and keep information they can share with each other as well as with you about schedules, observations, etc. Perhaps I am off base, but that seems to be helpful with my parents.

You might want to move the front door to the right, so that you don't walk right in to the sofa. And perhaps instead of a closet behind the stairs, have a doorway, for circulation through the house.

The basement arrangement could be improved. The bedroom on the left really isn't functional. Door swings and placement throughout need to be reconsidered, also what closet access will look like.

Do you have a plan with measurements on it?

You guys are great with all your thoughts and ideas. Okay here a summary of us and our needs

We currently live in a 2 story 1800sf home with 3 bedrooms and 1.5 baths. Two of the bedrooms and the full bathroom are upstairs, hence the need to move into a house with at least 2 bedrooms and a bathroom big enough to put in a roll in shower on the main floor. Besides sharing a smallish bedroom (13x13) on the main floor with our handicap daughter we really feel like we have pretty much room, although I have always wanted a master bathroom, and wouldn't mind if our largish family room were two separate family rooms. I think in a lot of ways the floor plan we drew up is a sort of modification of our current living situation.

We have 4 kids- 10/girl, 8/boy, 6/girl, 4/girl. The youngest needs to be in a room that is RIGHT NEXT to ours. We have to get up frequently in the night to help her. We don't have nursing at night currently, but probably at some point will so just sharing a room with us would not work long term, even though it works now. We would like the nurses to have a spot in our house that is out in the open but close to her room. In our current home our bedroom is at the very front of the house, first door you see directly to your right when you open our front door and that is where us and little one sleep. Then if you look straight ahead you are in the family room. I don't mind having a bedroom right off the family room. The nurses usually spend the day in the family room with her. I like that it is easy to check in on our little one, and that she is not hidden away with the nurse in a corner of our house.

The older girls want to share a room. . . but I think they may change their mind in a few years so I am trying to put two windows in their room and make it able to be divided down the road if needed. It certainly wouldn't be the end of the world if they did have to share a room til they moved out though- they get along pretty well.

We homeschool and a lot of that takes place on the opposite side of the family room from where the nurse is, so we are often in the same room but the older kids aren't right on top of the youngest one and her nurse (although sometimes they do start spreading out and I think crowd the nurses and get into their space, but then again their little sister likes having them close by and likes to keep an eye and ear on them too, so that isn't all bad). A lot of their school work happens at our dining room table. Our dining room table is frequently a mess. When therapists come over to work with our littlest one, I send the older kids to do their reading in their rooms, outside, or to the dining room which is out of sight from the therapist and youngest so everyone isn't distracting each other. I think in the house we drew up they probably would do more of their school work in the downstairs family room, but I could see them still at the kitchen table upstairs a lot and when the weather is nice, I could see them doing school work on the screened in porch, as they frequently go outside now to do school work when its nice out.

We don't own a lot of stuff, don't need huge walk in closets, don't need anything fancy. Probably our youngest owns the most stuff thanks to all her medical equipment and physical therapy stuff. We have a garage but never use it and don't plan on putting a garage on our new build. We are looking at a few different lot options. All are on pretty flat ground- we want to live on the edge or right outside of our little town and the whole area is flat farm land so a walk out basement is probably not an easy thing to do. I think we will probably end up with 1-2 acre lot that is hopefully tree lined at least in the back. I don't believe there are hardly any building rules or restrictions for where we live, especially if we do buy something right outside of town, but even in town I think people are allowed to build what they want pretty much. The lot we like the most right now we were just told is not in a spot they will run city water to, so we would be doing well and septic if we buy that lot. We are considering geothermal, but starting to think if we insulate really well and are just doing a 1500 sf ranch we might already have low enough utility bills that it would take a long time to get our get our money back from doing geothermal. Also I'm pretty sure our income bracket is low enough that we can't benefit from any of the energy tax credits because they are non-refundable and we don't usually owe federal income tax.

I kinda liked the idea of that dining room closet turning into an opening to help with the flow of the house while still separating space, but I also liked the idea of having a nice sized pantry in the kitchen area to store less often used kitchen items and some dry goods.

I wouldn't mind making that mudroom area much smaller- But I would like there to be a spot there to neatly store shoes, coats, diaper bag, a donate bin (we constantly keep a donate box by our door that we fill with stuff to get rid of), and a return bin (for library books or other things we put by the door to remember to take or give to someone). With us being a family of 6 plus having a nurse come most days of the week- that is a lot of peoples coats, shoes, purses, etc to store there.

I am hoping that the wall in the family room that backs to the basement steps can have a row of lower cabinets then a TV on the wall in the middle and bookcases on either side. The cabinets can be used for storage of paperwork nurses have to keep, and medical supplies that end up taking up a lot of space (diaper, gloves, tube feeding supplies, etc.)

The screened in porch shows a hot tub- I am dreaming. . . I don't know if we will ever be able to afford that or not, but I would like to pretend one day a hot tub would sit out there. Honestly, that whole screened in porch- I don't NEED it, and if budget forced us to that would be the first thing in our plan to scrap, but I love love love the idea of having a screened in porch to sit out on and eat out on when the weather is nice. We don't have a private back yard and I often really wish we did. I like sitting on our porch in the mornings or evenings for some quiet time now and would like it even more if I had a private view instead of looking onto a street or neighbors yard. I have pinned a million pictures on pinterest of screened in porches. Originally we put the screened in porch on the side of the house were you would exit from the dining room area onto it. But I wasn't sure how to put egress windows in for the girls room if I put the porch there and the house was starting to look very very long.

If any of you read ALL that- wow. Thanks! You all are giving me more time and input on this that I thought strangers would. I really appreciate it though.

Which do you think is more useful day-to-day: bathroom access directly from DD's bedroom, or from the LR?

Would anyone else use that bathroom? Or would they find it easier to run downstairs?

I'm wondering if an H shaped house or a U shaped one story house on a slab would be cheaper to build than a full basement house. Especially if you're on flat ground?

I'm thinking if you did more of a U shaped, you could put your bedroom on one end of the U, with your daughter's room running into the living room area. This would give you privacy, and allow your daughter to be more front and center.

Then your middle could be the living room/dining room, with the kitchen so it could be closed off, and then the other kids on the other part of the U.

If you keep the structure fairly straight without bump outs, I'm not sure it would be much more than paying to dig a basement, etc. Plus then you have the issue of the kids being in a basement and needing egress out of the basement. I can't say I'd love the idea of my kids down in a basement with only windows as egress.

Honestly, I think you need to figure out what lot you want first and then can work from there. Running a septic system and water may be very expensive.

What is your weather like year round?

One last thought? Is there no way to expand or reconfigure the house you have now?

One last concern and please tell me to mind my own business. You mentioned that you pay no federal income taxes normally because of your bracket. Are you sure you'll be able to afford to build a house?

An H could be wonderful. My parents' retirement home was a T (with a "serif" for a breakfast nook) and worked so well. Lots of open feel, but easy to separate.

We live in central IL with a pretty low cost of living area- all seasons.

I will look into some H and T ranch plans on slabs and see if I can find something I like better and talk with our contractor. He made it sound like having a finished basement was the cheapest way of getting living space, and the next cheapest was building UP instead of out. It may help that we are going for beam exposed ceilings where we just paint all the beams and ductwork black and have an open loft feel and that we are planning to just seal the concrete for flooring and put down big rugs. A side note I didn't mention because I didn't find it super important- our oldest 2 have a vision condition called albinism that makes them have a lot more trouble seeing in bright light. That is one reason I don't feel too bad giving them bedrooms where there is little natural lighting and they can control all of the amount of light themselves. This isn't to say they can't be in bright light or I want little natural lighting in our whole house- they play outside all the time, but their vision is a lot worse outside on a sunny day, but a room with mostly artificial light they can control and a TV downstairs that has zero glare on it isn't an awful thing for them.

I don't know about the Handicap bathroom entrance. A friend suggested making it open to her room as well. I don't want two doors in the bathroom- I don't like when bathrooms do that. I assumed that would be the guest bathroom as well and the bathroom any of us might use if we are upstairs and not already in the master bedroom. Hubby says no make it a family room entrance and we can change it later if it is a big deal. I doubt once we build we will go through the trouble of doing any changes if anything works good enough. I really would be open to either configuration.

On affording it- that's a fair question for all the help that is being offered. Yes, the bank has approved us for a large enough loan I am sure we can afford to build if our contractors rough estimate is close to correct and we do trust our general contractor we are talking with. We are paying extra on our current mortgage right now so that we are used to paying that higher mortgage amount. 47% of americans don't owe federal income tax (Remember the big deal Mitt Romney made about that), many of us are working families we just have a really strange tax system- we still pay social security, I think we owe state usually, and of course we pay sales tax and property tax and that probably eats up a larger percent of our income than someone in a higher income bracket, but taxes are odd and if you are lower middle income with a lot of dependents federal tax credits that aren't refundable are not usable. We have a pretty modest income and also 4 dependents which has a lot to do with it. BUT that said we are definitely looking at builders grade and not high end for almost everything (except insulation- we want to go all out there!)

We have looked at modifying our current house, but our lot is pretty small for expanding out, we could a little bit, but it would really detract from the outside home appearance, taking away most our porch. We have enough steps upto the door that we would need to put in a huge ugly length of ramp (we are just carrying her for now and probably can make do with that for another year.) The only bathroom downstairs is right off the kitchen and its pretty small. To put a roll in shower we would need to eat up space in our large but very pretty dining room and it would really ruin the aesthetic appearance of that room. Plus as much as I am not picky about some things I don't want a full bathroom where you walk out of it into the dining room or kitchen.

The more detailed your list of wants and needs are, along with your property survey, the better equipted your architect will be to design a home for you. The architect will want to know how you want to live and what the site is like.

Mark they are trying to do it without an architect.

I have an idea Abby that might work. First I'd find your land. Then what about approaching the nearest architecture school and seeing if one of the professors would like to have your house be the assignment for their students? Then you and the prof could pick the best one for your needs with the builder weighing in too for costs?

I doubt a prof would be interested in a "normal" house, but considering your house has such special needs, (handicapped room that is near living space, master bedroom next door and accessible to the child's room, room for nursing staff, your children's needs, low cost to build, etc) they might find it a great project for their students. The advantage is you get multiple ideas from budding architects, with help from the Prof, and it won't cost you architect fees.

That is a stellar idea. Head over to Urbana-Champaign and see if that is an option!

LOL, one of the first things we did was contact every architect professor at Judson U. Maybe we need to copy that email to some other architect schools- we got no emails back.

A follow-up phone call works wonders, too.

I wonder if you will one day like a track system to help DD get to her bathroom? If so, a door from her bedroom will be almost necessary.

If you stay with a rectangle, perhaps you could swap the kitchen and dining? Then the kitchen isn't interrupted by a door to the porch, giving you more flexibility. The closet behind the stairs becomes a more convenient pantry. Or, it could be passage to the LR. (I love my front-facing kitchen, I can see who's coming home, or coming in the drive, or just going by.)

Don't email. Send snail mail and then follow up with a phone call. Of course now you'll have to wait till school starts up again in the fall

The school approach might work if it won't cost you anything. Having seen many of these over the past 35 years, solutions by students tend to focus more on egos and less on the clients/owners needs. Or budgets for that matter.

I ought to write a post on INVITED design competitions, having been involved in three of them over the years (and won two). Don't know if that would work for you but for the lurkers out there, if there's money in the design budget for it, it should be a considered approach.

I hesitate to be so bold but....Martha on this board is near us (you and I). Message me if you want more info.

She has a full-time job but might help you out. she is my architect and she is fabulous.

i have no idea if she could help but it might be worth a try.

This is a long and positive thread trying to help the OP as much as possible.

The OP really needs some experienced and expert local help. There is so much that needs to be explored and evaluated, starting with the basic concept of the cost of having a basement, which, by definition, will not likely be accessible to a child with limited mobility and special needs.

As helpful as everyone wants to be on this forum, no one is going to be able to work out a good concept and design, except for a direct, on-site presence with the OP and family.

As a former Head of a school of architecture and tenured full professor, I have to say that contacting a university school of architecture is probably not a very good strategy, unless that school has an organized, staffed and functioning community outreach and assistance program. Some universities do; many do not. Most faculty members plan their course-work a semester or year ahead, and focus on teaching a number of cumulative design principles to the students, year by year. As important as this project is, it probably doesn't fit well into an architectural curriculum, unless there is an active community outreach program, as I've mentioned.

It's possible, that the nearest local chapter of The American Institute of Architects might sponsor a charette or even a pro bono program of support if contacted with details about the situation.

My heart aches that so much help is needed here.

I really appreciate everyone's insight. I think we will keep working on this floorplan and some different variations of it. We are getting closer to finding our lot too, sounds like it would be good not to finalize our floorplan before finding a lot anyway. We made a more U shaped plan that is just a little bit bigger but incorporates a lot of everyone's suggestions.

We are pretty easily content people so I think we will enjoy anything we build, but if there is something we can improve on without making the cost go up significantly I'm all for that. We may look into meeting with a designer or an architect before having the draftsman draw up the final plans but I feel like the more ideas we already have on paper the quicker that person will be able to see what sort of things we are wanting.

Since you all are great floorplan critics I'll be sure to post the different options on here for your insight and suggestion. Hubby was impressed with how your suggestions improved the layout.

We will be here to help you. Good luck on your land search

Thanks for all your feedback so far. We're really liking where this is going. We turned it into a U-shape. We moved the kitchen to the front of the house to put the pantry closer. We added more windows to bring in natural light. We put in better entrances to the backyard. We like the size of the upstairs bedrooms and closets better. Laundry is right at the bottom of the steps now, and all the plumbing is more together. We're still trying to decide if we want the screened-in porch in the back or off the dining room. Got any more input?

Abby you really need to find a piece of property first and then see what can be done. Too much will depend on the land you find. Yes I understand it's mostly flat land, but for example, my property is 97.5' wide x 93' and being in the city I only have 5' setbacks on all sides. Sounds great doesn't it?

Not so fast. See it turns out that I'm only allowed for the building to have a footprint on less than 35% of the land. Ok, no big deal right? Well then I found out I have an easement and a bioswale I couldn't build over. So that meant the 93' is now only 73' deep. Then I had the problem that I could only put my driveway in one area.

See why it's so important to find the land first? The land will dictate how you design your house. What if you have a fabulous view in one corner of the lot? What if you find a lot that is very long but very narrow? What if you find the opposite? A site that is very wide but not deep?

Additionally I still feel there is a way for you and your daughter to have your privacy. Basically all you did is change the shape to a u without giving yourself the privacy, etc.

Can you turn your messaging on or message me?