Woohoo! You may be right about some of your accusations, LOL.

I'll say publicly the same thing I've said to you in private: once my whites, etc. are back to gleaming I will likely not do 200F washes very often because I do believe they will break down textiles faster. BUT, do they every work when you need to revive something.

Which begs the question, Larsi: what are you washing??

Large load of 100% cotton (white) hand towels, wash cloths and Williams-Sonoma turkish kitchen towels!!

I minuscule scoop of Rosalie's Zero Suds and one Tide boost pod.

They will be just fine. No worries. I boil washed many washcloths to restore the grey centers and not a single one puckered or fell apart. And you can bet these weren't ultra expensive brands either. lol.

Does any of the LiGi owners here have a thermometer that goes up to 200°F?

I am wondering because domestic Miele washers, for the past ten years or even more, have only heated to 185°F max - even if set higher. There was once a video on YouTube where a Miele tech connected his laptop to a Miele washer, set it to 95°C... and the laptop actually confirmed that the machine was programmed only heat to 85°C.

I'm also suspicious as even the Thermal Disinfection cycle only heats up to 185°F - why not more if the washer is capable of going higher?

There's a laundromat with 15 of your washers right across the street for me - but I don't have an infrared thermometer. ;p And it's also closed now.

@Alex - possible that you are correct. I do have an infrared thermometer (so does Larsi) and the highest I've ever seen is in the mid 180's. However, I had assumed that it was measuring the temperature of the glass exterior -- not the washer water -- which I would expect to be lower. Hmm. I'm not sure I'm prepared to accept that the LiGi isn't hitting all its temperatures as marked. And if I'm not, you know Larsi will have a meltdown. So, further experimenting is necessary.

I had an Asko that went to 205F and without the powerful LiGi heater. It doesn't seem impossible.

I'm suspicious of the machine not reaching 200F for two other reasons. First, they advertise the hell out of the guaranteed temps between cold and 195F (there's some inconsistency in the highest temp across various literature -- 195 or 200). There's also a setting in the supervisor menu to lower the max temp to prevent prematurely boiling at altitude. Seems a waste to devote this level of attention in the menus -- and manuals -- for nothing. Only way I can think to verify this for sure is to turn off suds cooling and capture the drain water, but that's got a whole lot of "Alex gets third degree burns" written all over it.

In the video that was taken down (probably on Miele's order, just like the recently leaked video of the bagless Miele cylinder) the washer was set to Cotton 95°, yet the laptop clearly said Cotton 85°C. This is a programming decision on Miele's part and I was wondering if the smaller Professional units worked the same way.

Um, yeah. I remember that altitude setting as well. I could swear that I once read "lowers the max temp by 5°C to 80°C".

Third degree burns? In that case, please ignore the emergency door release that allows you to open the door at any time during the cycle. Even during a max spin, which is kind of scary when you think about it.

Alex - tell me more. I could turn water+ off, turn down the water levels and do an empty 200F wash. Just before drain, I'll open and take a temp. It would be a good maintenance cycle anyway. Teach me, wise one.

Look in your manual, the door release should be described somewhere on the last pages. It will (should) totally override the door lock and the door simply pops open.

All Miele washers have guaranteed wash temps. On my Miele's, the highest temperature setting is 195. Once it hits 185 or so, one of the heating elements kicks off, and it still continues to rise in temperature. I have one of those laser thermometer thingamabobs, and I like checking the temps thru the glass what can I say?. Not super accurate through glass, but what the hell, right? I have accessed the Supervisor and Programming modes of my newer Miele, and to my knowledge, there is no option to lower or raise the max temperature. That is actually the first that I have heard of that....very interesting. :) My washers are from 1996-ish and 2000, however. Perhaps even before water temperatures were so heavily dumbed down. In my experience, if the wash cycle time is not long enough to meet the time that it takes to reach proper temp, it will hold the timer until the selected temperature is reached before heading into cool down.

Before I bought my Miele Little Giant, I made several calls to Miele USA in New Jersey. I'm sure they loved me, LOL.

Several techs confirmed that the Little Giant and OctoPlus Professional models WILL 100% reach any set temperature, including 200F!!

Also using an infrared laser thermometer is not totally accurate. It must go thru two panes of glass, and/or industrial plastic, there is cooler air in between the two panes and you are just shooting the laser at soddened clothes.

I am not going to over think it or worry about it. 185F, 195F or 200F is SO much hotter than any other machine, and hotter than most people really need!!

Btw, my whites were radioactive, glowing white. SURPRISINGLY, the towels felt soft and fluffy and no edges or seams were curled!! Impressive!

What to say.....I want you kids to have fun but I have to worry about these boil washes lol....First...Alex please don't place yourself at risk for a burn.

Now...boil washing can whiten dingy whites...but you know it will be at the expense of your textiles. Sure you will see WHITE but it will shorten the life of the garments. Modern day fabrics are not going to hold up to that heat. Also nothing...not even vintage textiles should be boiled longer than 10 minutes.

But if your going to do it....make absolutly sure the first rinse is very warm...a spin out from boiling water than to be flushed with a cold rinse will shock the clothes..one other thing..make sure your boils have nothing with poly in them. I'm just trying to help.

I agree - 185 or 203°F, that's hotter than most machines on your side of the pond. Besides, not even 203° would sterilize laundry if one was wanting to do that. So it's all good in the end.

(although I am still curious)

Agree, Larsi. While I'll probably end up checking it -- just to see -- I can't imagine results being any better if it were 15 degrees hotter (if that's the case). Also agree that the temp on the top of the pile is going to be different than what is measured at the bottom of the drum near the sump. I'm nowhere near needing a maintenance cycle yet, but when I do, I'll test with a thermapen.

webuser_862735, sure they don't measure the temperature of the clothes directly, but that doesn't mean they bring the sump temperature up to 200degF and call it a day. They probably have some idea of the differential between the sensor temp and the temp in the drum, and program the washer accordingly.

Yes, washers usually reheat the water several times and may slightly overshoot the set temp to compensate. On top of that, the drum paddles (and sometimes circulation pumps) move extra water through the clothes.

The little giant can maintain temp in the sump @ 200F but the actual temp in the drum is likely less. Miele can't raise the temp in the sump much above 200 (to offset heat loss) since the boiling point of water decreases at higher altitudes. Water boils in Denver @ 205 so it would create steam not hot water there causing cavitation in the pumps if Miele raised the sump temp to offset heat loss.

It has a Temperature Reduction option. Yes, I know that equating a difference of 5degC to 41degF is an amusing error.

Remember that the water is circulating, so the temperature is more even than you might first think.

Temp. reduction

To avoid premature boiling of the wash water at altitudes over 9842 ft (3000 m) in the sanitize program, the wash water temperature can be lowered by 41°F (5°C).

This option is set to "off" by default.

ALso forgot to add..its a good idea to add vinegar to the first hot rinse to neutralize the residue that will get deep in the fibers after a boil wash. We need a boil wash post.

Lol. Mama. I never hesitate to boil wash my towels and my husband's white t shirts. I have never had anything shrink or be damaged in any way. The shirts are softer and so white after the abuse :). It's a kind of white that optical brightners can't touch. It has saved many towels from the rag pile. I have also washed my son's dark colored athletic uniforms at 205 after being left in his football locker for weeks. No damage and no longer smelled like dead animals. The washer adds a lot of cold water before the wash cycle drains. 1/2 way up the door so fabric Isn't shocked by the rinse. I'm not saying everything should be washed at 205 but if it's nice to have the option.

Nice to hear the Asko has the suds cooling feature as well, Sandy. Thanks for the report. And you're a bit more adventurous than I am. :) But I keep finding more and more things for the "boil" pile, LOL. I have some colored things with some baked in oil-based stains that I'd really like to tackle. They're ruined as-is, so no harm in trying.

Oh My...boil washing colors...well guess if they are already a lost cause LOL.

Between the boil wash-ers and the cold wash-ers.....I just may...well I'm not sure what I may do....LOL

From some of the stuff I've read on boil washing, you'd think that it'll whiten anything, but that's not true. When I had that drum residue problem a while ago, I tried to remove it by running a boil wash with a load of clothing, hoping it would rub off the residue. The load was a bag of old colored T-shirts. They came out looking no worse than when they went in.

LOL..I would expect cottons more than anything to look fine after a boil, but does that mean the fabric hasn't been damaged, time will tell..continue boiling that's when you will see problems. I'm just sayin IMO boiling should be reserved to ** last resort*

Suburbanmd - did you add detergent or were you relying on the heat alone? If anything I use more detergent in a boil wash. It really gets out the oils and they have to go somewhere. Without added detergent I've had loads of white tshirts come out worse due to the free oils and waxes being loosened and not rinsed away. Very yucky.

If I understood SuburbanMD correctly, he was saying the high temps didn't fade his colored shirts (not that it didn't provide a cleaning benefit, which wasn't his goal anyway).

I have boil washed dark colors before when someone was really sick. I used Cheer, of course, and experienced no excess fading. Some of my colored bath towels have been boil washed many times, with a bleaching detergent, and still fade minimally. I think fading is more of the choice of detergent versus water temperature.

I think its a mixture of both temp and chemicals..and colorfastness...

I boiled a few towels once, they puckered horriably.

I have a question for this knowledgeable thread. It looks (from the users' manual) as if the Little Giant actually offers hot/warm RINSES as well as a boil wash. Is this true? Is this POSSIBLE? Is such laundry Nirvana available? (I have to replace my Asko, and was thinking of another Asko, until I discovered that the Little Giant also achieves a boil wash.)

The only rinse temperature option is the "Rinse Water" supervisor setting, which can be set to take in hot water for rinses:

"The water type for the rinse in the programs "Cottons Hygiene", "Cottons Uni.", "Minimum iron", "Kitchen linen", "Toweling" and "Sluice" can be selected. The hot water intake will be only accessible at a wash temperature of 50°C or higher."

So it can supposedly do a hot rinse on a hot wash, if hot water is immediately available at the machine (i.e. if the machine is near the domestic water heater). I have it set to "Cold", so I can't vouch for whether it does what it says. Hot water isn't immediately available at my machine, so I use cold water intake for washing and rinsing. The Little Giant doesn't heat rinse water the way it heats wash water.

There's no comparison between the Little Giant's boil wash capability and that of other 240V washers. Most of them have a 2000-watt heater, while the Little Giant has a 5000-watt heater, so it heats a lot faster. You'll have to run a new circuit for the Little Giant, unless your Asko's 15 amp or 20 amp circuit was run with cable heavy enough for 30 amps.

Thank you, suburbanmd! This is extremely helpful! The information re the rinse temperature for the Little Giant is consistent with what I had gleaned from the user's manual, at least the .pdf version available online. However, I really like the cold-only fill, because that allows laundry to run independently of showers. (~le sigh~) Not sure about the circuitry (I am hardly an electrician!); but I do know that our circuit is wired at 240V. I also can attest that the Asko takes FOREVER to complete its cycles: just shy of 2 hours for what it calls "Super-Quick Wash." (Of course, this is using appropriate water temperatures, not tepid nonsense.)

I am tempted by the new (upcoming) Asko Logic (due out in a month or two -- supposedly late May/early June 2018) -- but our washer is broken NOW. Additionally, I can find no information on what the dimensions are/will be for the mounting of the Asko Logic, whereas Miele's installation guide is extremely specific, and t looks as if the "feet"/mounting parts of the Little Giant will fit our current platform, even though the washer itself is larger than the current Asko that is in place. I am also hopeful that the Little Giant's pump could handle the 28-inch rise to the drainpipe, which is problematic for the current (Asko) machine. (Specs for the Little Giant say that its pump is designed to drain for more than 3 feet vertically, and that there is a pump booster available for up to something like 5 vertical feet of drainpipe, although I haven't been able to find much info about the booster.)

Again -- much appreciated, suburbanmd!!

Suburbanmd was very kind to share the Little Giant the wash temp and cycle info with you.

Since you need a washer now I would vote for buying a Little Giant.

In a perfect world where Asko dealers were nearby, reliability and servicing were top notch and hassle-free, my dream machine is actually an Asko. Reason being there is no boot and the insanely hot water temps you can get with it. However, at this time, it's not a perfect world.

Thus, if I had the budget for a Little Giant and the required electrical upgrading necessary, I would buy a Little Giant.

Sounds like you have the budget, and have the need being without a washer... :) Do check with an electrician first though in case you need to make alterations to your electrical system.

@Sea Sea -- Thank you for the input! I am very grateful for your advice, and I certainly second your opinion regarding the kindness of Suburbanmd's information. You are both very kind to take the time to respond here.

I can probably limp along for the month[s] until the new Asko Logic is released... Our current Asko is operating, but produces no hot water AT ALL. The clothes are "washed," after a fashion. I am willing to wait for the best possible replacement -- but that might well be the Little Giant, anyway. Sure, it's pricey (pricy?), but as you note indirectly, reliability (repair) also figures into cost. And, too, I am a bit nuts about laundry: LOVE the results of super-hot-water washes, and simply cannot abide detergent residue.

Again -- thank you VERY much for taking the time to help me out. I really, really appreciate it! THANKS!

Have a set of Cristy white towels, hotel design (no longer made) came from Turkey. The are now 10 yrs old and have always been washed in a 220v miele, first a standard model and replaced with a little giant about 3 yrs ago. Always wash them at hygiene. The are still going strong and blindingly white. I have a replacement set but haven't been able to use them because these have held up so well.

Something to think about, not boil wash, but the new Miele W1 now goes up to 170F on the Sanitize cycle. The previous W3048 went up to 158F. However, you definitely can't beat the customizability on the Little Giant.

That is good to know, Cal. Thanks for that information. As with other input -- your time in responding is much appreciated!!

Cal I'd be perfectly happy with 170 lol. after all a boil wash is something that generally is rarely if ever needed. Its way to aggressive for modern day fabrics. Even stubborn whites will be super white at 140F possible lower if the right detergents are used. I do however like sanitize temps expecially for sick beds and kitchen towels. I often wonder why some use the boil wash. I know personally I'd only use it on vintage high quality cotton sheets that I'm restoring.

MamaP completely agree. I'd love to have the 200F for something like cleaning rags, but for everything else I think the 170F max is still really great. Besides I doubt the microfiber cleaning clothes will like 200F. I'm still amazed at how the quality of elastics and cotton can barely survive tap hot water fill nowadays.

I weekly use boilwashes in my Miele, 95c or 203f is the max temp on my machine. What I wash is: kitchentowls, cleaningcloths-mops-mostly made of microfiber, my oldest microfibercloth is from 1995. Also do all of my dogs sheets and towls and every other time bathtowls, washcloths, questtowles. I can not se any more wear on the items from washing them at temps this high.

Bjorn...likely your textiles are better made in Sweden. LOL

I've owned both Miele and Asko machines. Would not go with Asko over Miele. Had the same issue with my Asko -- no hot water and no way to repair. Also, far too little water used in the wash and rinse cycles for some items that Miele handles. My 2 cents.

@rococogurl -- Obviously, as I noted above, the hot-water failure is (also) my primary problem with the Asko. I will also echo your observation re the Asko's water levels being too low ("too little water used," as you said), and I am certainly mindful of the general comments here, as well as the of user's manual information, re the Miele Little Giant (at least the Little Giant model), which seem to indicate that the Miele allows for a customizable higher level of wash water. (The upcoming new Asko Logic may do so, as well.) Thanks for your opinion and for the reasons!

eponymouse

I live in Sweden and we already have the new line of Asko washers you are talking about. What I have seen in test of earlyer machines fron asko are that they are about midrange in cleaning and rather low at rinsing how that will be in the new models time will tell.....

Have read the top of the line manual and there are stuff you can program. There are a more water option, do not know if it ads even to wash or just rinse. You can ad 2 more rinses. Both these are not awailable in all programs.

What is it you want to know specificly, but we have to remember that it can vary from Eu to Us, I will gladly read more of the manual if you want me to.

Thank you, linus 2003! Actually, I have access to the manual -- just not to the machine (washer) itself yet. However, your comments are very helpful!