There's an unknown phenomenon again, perched water...

"You assume that because Steve agreed with how I addressed many topics, but particularly the things I said about soil, that I agree with everything he said. I didn't/don't."

You're the one making assumptions, not me. In fact, I assumed neither of those things. I couldn't care less whether or not you agreed with him. As for myself, I'm going to side with Steve, who has had more experience growing these rainforest plants than anybody else on this forum. Seeing as he successfully created a rainforest in a place where there was none, and maintained it for many, many years. :)

"Just
a word of thanks for the information [Al]. I have agreed fully with
Al's information for many years .....

Thanks
again!"

Steve
Lucas
www.ExoticRainforest.com

Al

Ooh... I'm very impressed. Steve agreed with you on something. That almost never happens. So what? I agree with you on many aspects as well. As do many other people. Out of the two of you, who developed, maintained, and lived within their very own rainforest that was known the world over? Hmm... :/

For the record, I was never claiming that I was right, or that anybody else was wrong. Sorry I don't have any crayons to color a purty picture to get that point across, because some people just can't seem to grasp that simple concept. I'm not the one getting bent out of shape for simply telling goldstar135 to place their plant on top of a folded up paper towel to soak up any excess moisture.

As for myself, I'll seek my information from a guy whose knowledge of these plants was unrivaled by anyone on this forum, Steve Lucas. :)

"A great rule to follow is 'Listen to Mother Nature since her advice is best.'"

I'm not sure why you took exception to what I said. It wasn't mean-spirited and it was with the best interest of the OP that I posted. It wasn't me that got bent out of shape, it was you. I've suggested dozens of times, if not hundreds, that people depot their plant and place it on newspaper to pull excess water from the media, but there is a BIG difference between setting a pot on newspaper or a paper towel than setting a root ball on same. I only pointed out that with a concave bottom it wouldn't work unless continuity from soil to blotter was maintained. How that is too much for you to tolerate is beyond me. Once again, I ask if you can find anything wrong in what I said or point to what you thought was mean-spirited. You can't, and I'm not the one hurling insults or resorting to the sour cream of wit (sarcasm), because I can't hold my own in an on topic discussion.

You left important information out of your post and said things that if taken literally would be detrimental to Goldstar's growing experience. I added qualifications to your statements that would prevent him from thinking over-watering was no big deal - "You can't be afraid to give it more than enough water". That might be true if using a medium that supports little or no perched water, but definitely NOT true with the soil he's using. In fact, in a container that shallow, it's a serious concern. You laid a couple of eggs. Deal with it and get over it. We all make mistakes or forget important qualifications when giving advice. I suggested that someone move a jade outdoors into full sun w/o saying anything about acclimating it. Tiffany came right behind me and added what I neglected to include. Guess what? I didn't get all out of joint - I was glad for the added info I neglected to supply and 'liked' her post. We're different in that regard I guess, you and I. If you had corrected me in the manner I corrected you because I messed up, I'd have said thanks and apologized for what I missed, as is my habit when I mess up.

You can have the last word on this topic. How you use it will say a lot about you.

Al

Guys lets stop arguing whose right or wrong, or whatever it is you are doing. Both of you have truths, knowledge and success. Gold star is the one who needs help and we need to put our differences aside and help devise a plan.

Gold star I think your little one is doing well, keep it up.

PWT must be a new discovery because I have never come across it in any book on plants I've read, and I've read a lot! I've been growing plants since I came out of nappies (diapers) and I still use a layer of gravel for drainage. Horses for courses.

No, Larry, it's almost as old as the earth; and its effects in container culture very often impose serious limitations which can be compounded by the use of "drainage layers". That someone refuses to recognize its existence, doesn't mean it's not real. A quick net search on your part would prove illuminating.

Al

So a little off topic, hope you don't mind goldstar but I found these at lowes today and got them for half off. They forgot to water them... Anyways I'm going to repot them today in 5-1-1.

Any updates on your little guy?

Nice plants...I know they'll begin thriving in your care! :)

The first leaf has fully opened-it's beautiful :)

I can't wait for those emerging new leaves to unfurl. As of now, the furled leaves look even bigger than the opened one! So excited :D

Very beautiful leaf

Looks like what you are doing is working. These are definitely my favorite plants. I've had so-so luck with maintaining them. I've got two plants that my wife gave me about three years ago. They have thrived. I've also killed a few, but then again I wonder if I would've kept at it like you are if they would've survived.

Ok, so we've got an unusual growth on my plant:

It's as if the two new leaves opening up are conjoined in the center?

That's normal. The leaves on your plant are much like the leaves of other plants, the difference being in the very short internodes (the section of stem between leaves) your plant is programmed to produce The leaves are so close together it might appear they're conjoined, but they're not. You can rest easy - you're not living with a mutant. ;-)

Al

I agree with Al and you will probably have more new growth in between those to leaves. Awesome!

Any new updates?

The new leaves have opened!! :D

Al, I know you said it's normal for leaves to look conjoined, but are sure sure that this is normal? It starts as a single petiole. It then splits into two separate veins, each vein to a different leaf. The two halves are joined together on the bottom-

That little rip in the center is where the leaves split-below that is one base.

I'm under the impression that spaths have one leaf per petiole?

This could be one of those funny little growths that plants put out from time to time, like a leaf shaped differently :p

--

Another new growth seen:

I keep the plant on a windowsill facing west-it gets direct sun through the window from about 2 PM to dusk. It seems to like the light :)

There's a stem in there somewhere, and the leaves are growing from nodes on that stem. The nodes are so close together that it LOOKS like one leaf is the offspring of or is conjoined with another or other leaves, but it's how many plants grow.

Al

goldstar....you got that plant in a strong recovery. Relax and enjoy.

I agree with both Anthony and Al on this one. It could be just a mutated leaf, but either way your are doing a great job. Your patience is paying off :).

Goldstar: You must get your lighting skills up for long term success. A PL does not like direct sunlight. BRIGHT INDIRECT ONLY.

Update on the plant:

Big root on the side

More roots

I'm planning to give it some fertilizer the next time I water, which will likely be very soon judging by the weight of the cup and the soil color.

How much fertilizer should I mix in with the amount of water I'm using?

I'm not keen on the idea of keeping plants in clear pots. Light gets in and turns the roots photosynthetic, and there is evidence that they become compromised.

GreenLarry

Can you pls. explain what this means "turns the roots photosynthetic"?

Thx,

Lena

Photosynthetic roots are much like those of many epiphytic orchids; which typically grow on the trunks of trees, not in the ground. Since they're not covered by soil, they're exposed to sunlight and perform photosynthesis in much the same way that their leaves do.

Use 3 tsp per gallon. Since we don't know how much water the container holds, we can't figure how much fertilizer to add. There is 128 oz in a gallon, so divide 128 by the number of oz in your bottle. Let's say it's 24 oz. 128 divided by 24 is 5.3, so you use about 1/5 of 3 tsp or between 1/2-3/4 tsp. Let us know the volume of the bottle & I (or someone else) will figure it out for you (unless it IS 24 oz).

Al

"Let us know the volume of the bottle & I (or someone else) will figure it out for you (unless it IS 24 oz)."

The volume of the bottle used for watering, correct?

16.9 FL OZ

1 PT, 0.9 FL OZ

500 ML

Is FL OZ the same as OZ?

I use a new bottle of water every time-I take a bottle, water the plant, then dump the empty bottle in the recycling (I don't refill the same bottle)

For when I fertilize the plant, I plan on pouring one bottle into the plant, letting it drain, then pouring another, this time with fertilizer.

There are 8 pints in a gallon. So use about 1/4 to 1/2 tsp in the bottle since 3tsp divided by eight is 3/8. That's between 1/4 and 1/2.

I come up with .4 tsp, so 1`/4-1/2 teaspoon is good.

Al

To Admin - you might note that Anthony's preferred method of trolling is to offer short sentences, over and over and over again that contain the same "hot button issues", suggesting that light and watering skills are the answer to everything, and nothing in the way of any real substance. At a glance, they look innocuous, but taken as a whole they illustrate a pattern (s)he consistently uses in thread after thread. I think it's shameful for someone to ignore the the best interest of innocent members in order to see how much heat can be purposefully created. BTW - the 'hot button' issues are exactly the same issues used by another relentless troll that surfaces from time to time, which I find curious. It may be a coincidence, but do you have a way checking to see if his/her posts are coming from an IP in FL?

(S)he has also adopted the habit of making these intentionally repetitive posts containing information with the potential to diminish the growing experience of others and then deleting them a short time later.

Goldstar - Anthony is intentionally misleading you in order to create friction. Anyone with a rudimentary understanding of Liebig's Law of the Minimum knows that even perfect light levels and soil conditions can't "make up" for limitations imposed by other cultural conditions. In this case, the question becomes, 'can good light and soil conditions "make up for" or "offset" the limitations imposed by low or poorly managed nutritional supplementation, and the answer is a resounding 'no'. If you're growing in a container, you need to fertilize.

Also, that PLs are bog plants has nothing to do with what they prefer in a container. They do not like water-retentive or 'boggy' soils. They prefer the same well-aerated and fast draining soils you can keep damp instead of saturated as most other plants prefer. (S)he does you a great disservice by using you to sow his seeds of discord.

Al

Update:

Two new leaves!

Visible root system

Some white fungus started growing on the soil surface:

How's the little fellow doing?

It's doing awesomely! It grows at least one new leaf every two weeks, each new one bigger than the last. It looks so healthy :)

I'll post some pictures as soon as I can.

Thanks for asking!

Litterbuggy, lol!!!! It really was a most gripping narrative! Never have so many come together for so few leaves to survive.....rofl

"As much as I've let them down, my doughty green friends have never failed me when I showed them I cared!" If ever that strategy seems to be failing, go the tough love pathway and provide for them, with a 'this is for your own good' look on your countenance, no more than a glimpse of the compost pile. See then how cooperative they'll be.

Al

Oh, they'll cooperate! I've learned all I need to know about that from my 23 year old cat. She may strongly disagree that subcutaneous fluids and blood pressure and thyroid meds are what keep her happy to stick around, but I'm won't let that stop me from giving them to her as long as they keep doing their job.

Know the difference between a dog and a cat?

Dogs have 'family'. Cats have 'staff'.

Enjoy the weekend if it is indeed the weekend for you.

Al

Sorry about the delay, but...

Here are the pictures! (Taken October 15)

I've been delighted to find these large plump fuzzy roots growing all over-

Yowzah!

My goodness, what growth in such a short period of time! Kudos to you !!

Beautiful. How much light does it get?

Aww, thanks everyone! :)

Manuel-It sits in a room with windows facing southwest, south, northwest-most of the light it gets comes in from the west facing window. It gets direct sun (with intermittent periods of shade) from around 1 to 5 PM.

It's beautiful. You should call it Lazarus, or Phoenix, since it came back from the dead

Wow it's been a long time. How's the little PL?

Wow...can't believe the last update I posted was way back in October. Time flies :p

It's doing great, thanks for asking! It lost a couple of older leaves (including the first one it grew after the repot) a few weeks ago-I'm thinking it was a result of shorter days and little fertilizing. Other than that it's doing amazing!

The first leaf it grew when it was repotted was about 1/3 the size of my hand.

The biggest leaf is now as tall as (or a tiny bit bigger than) my hand! :) (it's the upper-right leaf in the second pic)

Growth has slowed a tiny bit, but I'm hoping as Spring inches closer and as the daylight grows longer it'll begin speeding up again.

June update--

The peace lily has moved outdoors to enjoy its summer vacation :)

With my other plants~~

This summer I plan to repot it into a larger clay pot. I was going to pot up, but with a substantial amount of dead plant matter in the soil (e.g. the dead stem) I decided to start fresh. There are already a LOT of roots visible in the pot :D

Goldstar, I have to say that I'm IMPRESSED with how you stuck with saving that little "nothing" of a plant! I wish all of us growers were as dedicated as you are! I would have given up long ago. You are being rewarded for your patience and care with a beautiful plant! Kudos to you!

Good job with the plant propagation, Goldstar. Have you figure out the proper amount of watering yet? Ive been watering my peace lilies after the top inch of soil dries out and it works for me fine. It is also described in a guide: peace lily care and there other usefull tips for peace lily growing. btw. I would not recommend propagating/growing plants in translucent pots, because roots dont like sunlight but your peace lily didnt mind anyway. Have fun with your plants:)

If the pot is very shallow, using the guide to "water when the top inch (or two) of the soil feels dry" is usually ok. The same advice applied to plants in deeper pots, say 10" deep, is pretty much a recipe for over-watering. Here's why: For a very large % of plants, including PLs, it's best to water when there is just enough moisture in the medium to prevent drought stress. This means the soil column will be on the dry side except at the bottom. A pot filled with a 10" (deep) soil column very often supports a perched water table as tall as 6". This meant the top 2" of that soil column can feel dry, while the bottom 6" is 100% saturated. This has the potential to severely limit roots' ability to function, and, can set the stage for fungal root infections that wreck root health and often lead to the plant's loss of viability.

Watering is a science and it holds significant sway over what kind of opportunity the grower might be able to provide the plant to realize as much of its genetic potential as possible. Poor soil and/or poor watering practices can rob a plant of virtually all of it's potential for growth and vitality, and much of its eye appeal.

Using a 'tell' can take all the guesswork out of determining what moisture levels are deep in the pot where it counts most, and determining what intervals (between waterings) are appropriate.

Using a 'tell'

Over-watering saps vitality and is one of the most common plant assassins, so learning to avoid it is worth the small effort. Plants make and store their own energy source – photosynthate - (sugar/glucose). Functioning roots need energy to drive their metabolic processes, and in order to get it, they use oxygen to burn (oxidize) their food. From this, we can see that terrestrial plants need plenty of air (oxygen) in the soil to drive root function. Many off-the-shelf soils hold too much water and not enough air to support the kind of root health most growers would like to see; and, a healthy root system is a prerequisite to a healthy plant.

Watering in small sips leads to avoid over-watering leads to a residual build-up of dissolved solids (salts) in the soil from tapwater and fertilizer solutions, which limits a plant's ability to absorb water – so watering in sips simply moves us to the other horn of a dilemma. It creates another problem that requires resolution. Better, would be to simply adopt a soil that drains well enough to allow watering to beyond the saturation point, so we're flushing the soil of accumulating dissolved solids whenever we water; this, w/o the plant being forced to pay a tax in the form of reduced vitality, due to prolong periods of soil saturation. Sometimes, though, that's not a course we can immediately steer, which makes controlling how often we water a very important factor.

In many cases, we can judge whether or not a planting needs watering by hefting the pot. This is especially true if the pot is made from light material, like plastic, but doesn't work (as) well when the pot is made from heavier material, like clay, or when the size/weight of the pot precludes grabbing it with one hand to judge its weight and gauge the need for water.

Fingers stuck an inch or two into the soil work ok for shallow pots, but not for deep pots. Deep pots might have 3 or more inches of soil that feels totally dry, while the lower several inches of the soil is 100% saturated. Obviously, the lack of oxygen in the root zone situation can wreak havoc with root health and cause the loss of a very notable measure of your plant's potential. Inexpensive watering meters don't even measure moisture levels, they measure electrical conductivity. Clean the tip and insert it into a cup of distilled water and witness the fact it reads 'DRY'.

One of the most reliable methods of checking a planting's need for water is using a 'tell'. You can use a bamboo skewer in a pinch, but a wooden dowel rod of about 5/16” (75-85mm) would work better. They usually come 48” (120cm) long and can usually be cut in half and serve as a pair. Sharpen all 4 ends in a pencil sharpener and slightly blunt the tip so it's about the diameter of the head on a straight pin. Push the wooden tell deep into the soil. Don't worry, it won't harm the root system. If the plant is quite root-bound, you might need to try several places until you find one where you can push it all the way to the pot's bottom. Leave it a few seconds, then withdraw it and inspect the tip for moisture. For most plantings, withhold water until the tell comes out dry or nearly so. If you see signs of wilting, adjust the interval between waterings so drought stress isn't a recurring issue.

Al