jenmenke, We recently got a Miele Optima too (model 2432 -> the 2430 had just been replaced so we got upgraded to this one while our order was in process). When our 4 year old Kenmore DW died ($400 to fix!) :( That is the second Kenmore appliance (the other was a 15 year old refrigerator) that has gone out while we were in the preliminary planning (gathering ideas) phase for our kitchen remodel. We replaced that with a GE profile French door with bottom freezer that we really like. Having spent a lot of time on this forum, I knew I wanted to get a Miele. Im hoping we get a lot more than 4 years out of it. The first few loads we ran also seemed to not get as clean as the Kenmore. Some of it was loading issues. The Kenmore had a very symmetric tine layout while the MieleÂs is wildly asymmetric. Also many of the tines are very close together (so they can claim a 14 place setting capacity I guess). I find it works better to use every other one for bowls and large plates or there is too much overlap. The large insert along the left hand side that is supposed to hold plates didnÂt work very well for us. It didnÂt hold our plates securely and it had a lot of bumps that made it less than ideal for pots and pans. If you remove it, then the underlying grid has huge holes in it that might be great for a large pot, but you canÂt put anything small over there or it will fall through. I ended up buying the "large diameter plate insert" (GTLU 35 Â 06220270). I took out the large insert and moved the one with the fold down tines to the left side of the bottom tray in its place (it locks in over there). For some reason, the large diameter plate insert didnÂt lock securely in the tray, so ended up tie wrapping it. I use that for our large plates and it works great. The tines are far enough apart to allow the water to get in between them. We use Bright Green Automatic Dishwasher Powder Detergent (Dye and Fragrance Free). DW wanted to get away from using phosphorous detergent so she bought this. I was skeptical, but it works great if you use the right amount. Our detergent bowl has three levels (lower, 20, & 30) and there is also the pre-wash cup next to it. I started out using just enough detergent to fill lower level with a little in the pre-wash cup (about 1/3 full) but the dishes werenÂt getting clean. I went up the 20 line and filled the pre-wash cup about 3/4 full and it cleaning great now. We have naturally soft water (I think it is 1-2 grains) so we donÂt have to use salt. We use Jet Dry liquid rinse agent on the default setting. I havenÂt noticed any etching. The plastic containers donÂt get as dry at the end of the cycle as the Kenmore, but that had a fan that blew directly into the tub (and hot moist air into the room) instead of along the outside of the tub like the Miele. Conclusion: It took a while to figure out how to best load it (IÂm very rigorous in following a pattern and DW is more haphazard which doesnÂt yield as good results), but IÂm happy with the Miele after putting in the large diameter plate insert and I figuring out how much detergent to use. I always use Normal Wash setting. I usually load the dishwasher in the evening and set it up to run 4 hours later after midnight (it never wakes us up). I use rinse once in a while if IÂm not going to run a load of dirty dishes until the next day. One more thing, I rinse my dishes like always. IÂve never found a dishwasher that is fully loaded that will completely clean dishes that arenÂt at least somewhat rinsed. I try not to rinse them completely to save water, but I use some water. For Pyrex baking dishes, we often soak them overnight (with soap) or else the corners donÂt get clean. I rinse the soap out before putting them in the dishwasher. Ken___

We have both brands of dishwashers in our households. Total of four, two Miele and two Bosch. There are pros and cons with both of them. With the Bosch, which we use daily, I feel I can get more dishes in the dishwasher than the Miele. However to get the dishes completely dry you have to crack the dishwasher open yourself immediately after it is done washing. the Bosch gets things much cleaner than the Miele as far as caked on food. The Miele on the other hand is just as wonderful as the Bosch but has a few extra features that I wish the Bosch had. The Miele when it is done washing has an arm that automatically opens the dishwasher to allow the dishes to dry. I have found on some occasions trouble with this because the arm does not always go back in and it takes several tries to get it fixed and back in order to run another load. However I love the fact that it has the utensil shelf, I feel like I get more utensils in the dishwasher with the Miele than the Bosch utensil basket and with a family of 7 I need to get as much washed in one load as possible. The Miele also has a funky bottom rack on the left side and is hard to load pots and pans because it seems as if it is made for square dishes and a cookie sheet behind it. Whereas with the Bosch you can just keep loading and loading and also change the layout of the rack with a couple of clicks on the top and bottom. Either dishwasher you go with you will be absolutely happy with. Both dishwashers are the best you can buy and the one feature about these two brands are that they actually heat their own water up before putting it on the dishes which helps to get them cleaner compared to other brands. If you have never had one or the other you won't even notice the differences between them.

Does anyone know if Miele has plans for a 24 inch freezer like their others? Apparently the current 24 is Liebhor designed and not he same as the others (do door shelves)? Is that how the other sizes were as some point? I am planning a 36 inch column fridge and 24 freezer. Prefer Miele but don't like that freezer. I'm still a year away from my project so hoping that 24 is temporary filler for a 24 Built and styled like the other sizes. Would a paneled Thermador 24 look like a match to the Miele fridge? Or go to 30/30 like the original poster but I think I could use the fridge bigger, I have a garage freezer but don't want to go as skinny as the 18 inch. 24 seems the right size for me. Or I might go sub zero as I also like their over under all fridge (all fridge but with 2 separate drawers at the bottom). I currently have produce in undercounter refrigerator drawers and like the one step pull out access. But I'm more of a Miele fan. Had a subzero in my old house and knew my repair man a bit too well. But that Miele 24 freezer is a problem and I would love if Miele did the separate drawers on the bottom style for the fridge.

@Jen Jobart To be clear, let me say again that my own set-up is a manual, external mixing valve rather than a set-up using the small, in-line electric water heater alternative you asked about. Also my heaterless, 14 y.o. FL washer is not a Speed Queen. That said, the "electric water heater" alternative is actually an after market "plug-n-play" thing rather than something you that you frame or build-in during house construction. What you do during construction is to make sure you have enough 120v circuits and outlets in your LR to be able handle the 1400 watt (or so) load of the heater while running your washing machine. The person I know who has one of these set-ups is running both his FL washer and in-line heater on a single 20 Amp 120v circuit much as you might do with a washer with an on-board heater such as a Miele. For new construction like yours, I might prefer to add another, dedicated circuit and outlet for in-line water heater. The inline external heaters may draw more current than a standard on-board water heater will. The one I've seen first hand was one that used a little Bosch in-line heater like this one: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Bosch-Tronic-Mini-Tank-2-7-Gallon-Lowboy-6-year-Limited-1440-watt-1-Element-Point-of-Use-Electric-Water-Heater/5000622219.  You just hang on it the finished wall above or next to the washer where you can reach it easily and plug it into a regular 120v outlet. Connect the input side to your cold water tap with an off the shelf washing machine hose. The shorter, the better, (Might have to add a hose-thread fitting to the heater's in and out pipes; some heaters come with them, some do not,) Run another hose from the "out"port on the heater to your washer's cold water "in" connection. What I understand you do with a washer like the Speed Queen FL models (which do not have electronic auto temperature control) is (a) choose a cold wash temp on the washing machine so all (or most of) the water flows in through the cold side when it fill for a wash); (b) set your in-line water heater to the warm or hot temperature you want to use (something between 95°F and whatever the unit's top end is which may be 145°F although some models apparently will go higher); (c) give it 15 minutes to heat up; (d) start the wash cycle; and (d) turn it off when the wash fill is done unless you have some reason to want hot rinses. Turn it off when you are done with the washing day or washing session. After all It's an inline, point of use water heater with a small tank and it serves only your washing machine. On the days when you aren't washing, there is no need to use power or keep water heated. Some folks think it sufficient to just skip this extra set-up and equipment if your Speed Queen will be close to the water heater. YMMV, of course, because different people have different laundry and laundering preferences. For an idea of how that might work with a SQ Front-Loader, check out Jeff Caban's experiments in this thread, if you have not already seen it: https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5193747/my-last-three-weeks-with-a-fl-speed-queen-afne9bsp113tw01#n=0