Those look swell, Annie!

1. If you are using red wheat, the flavor and color of the finished product would be improved by using white wheat varieties for your 100% whole wheat baking. The genetics that determine the bran color also make red wheat bitter-tasting. There are 3 genes that determine bran color and the "grandfather" of all red wheat varieties, Turkey Red, has all three genes. Most of today's red wheat varieties only contain one or two of those genes, and they are not as dark or as bitter as the old varieties of red wheat. White wheat, on the other hand, doesn't contain those genes, which results in a light bran color and a sweeter, more mild-tasting, wheat. Soaking the flour by using long preferments, sponge method, soaked flour method, or using a starter for a longer overall fermentation making a naturally-leavened bread, will also alter the bitterness AND the finished color of red wheat (even making it lighter in color). Using a fast bread making method like the direct dough method, won't give you these results. So for 100% whole wheat bread, use an older bread-making method, not a fast modern bread making method.
2. Try adding 1/8 t. of citric acid per loaf (or even Fruit Fresh will work since it contains citric and ascorbic acid) to aid in the gluten structure of 100% whole wheat bread. The glutathione in the germ has a negative effect on the gluten bonds. Adding an acid, as I believe plllog mentioned in the other whole wheat bread thread, will help prevent the gluten bonds from breaking down, and it will also help repair gluten bonds that have already been broken. The addition of the acid (which can also be from lemon juice, orange juice, or vinegar, but in much larger amounts since citric acid is 9-times stronger than lemon juice) will also help promote yeast growth and sustain the leavening. If you are making naturally leavened whole wheat bread (made with a starter - aka sourdough starter or old dough method), it is already acidic enough and does NOT require the addition of an acid. Adding an acid is a great dough improver which is used by professional bakers, along with other dough improvers like this: along with vitamin C for better gluten development; an egg yolk for antistaling (from the lecithin in the yolk) and better gluten development; 1/4 t. ground fenugreek, rosemary, or cinnamon for enhanced yeast activity and better baking qualities; 1 T. sugar to feed yeast; and 1 t. barley malt syrup, which contains enzymes to convert flour to yeast food (or you can sprout your own wheat and dry it in a low-temperature dehydrator and mill it for malted wheat flour for the additional enzymes - I posted this information recently - it doesn't need to be barley malt, it can be wheat malt).
3. Yeast bread made with 100% whole wheat flour does NOT have the extensibility that you normally get using white flour (bleached or unbleached) or a mixture of white and whole wheat flour, so only allow this bread to rise to just under "double". Use a dough rising bucket so you can judge how much the dough actually rises. Don't use a timed rise since dough rises according to the strength of the yeast, ambient temperature, and amount of humidity - and can't tell time AT ALL! If you place 1 quart of dough into the dough rising bucket, you will know it has "doubled" in bulk when it reaches the 2-quart mark (as an example). And as you already know, it takes longer if it's cold than if it's warm. But anything more than "doubled" in bulk (and preferable just UNDER double) and you are essentially over-proofing the dough which will affect the rise and oven-spring. You can help compensate for this by adding some vital wheat gluten to the dough, but I never found it necessary unless I was also using a large portion of low-gluten flour (like rye, spelt, einkorn, etc.) along with the whole wheat flour. I never added vital wheat gluten to 100% whole wheat bread recipes. Although it may be necessary if the wheat you are using has a low protein count.
4. As an enriched dough, you may find better results panning it rather than making free-form loaves. Well-hydrated lean doughs are better for free-form loaves.
5. In the mixing process, when do you add the fat - early or late? Adding the fat early in the process will "shorten" the gluten by coating the flour and the gluten absorb less hydration, and you will get a shorter, more compact, crumb structure. By adding the fat later, after the gluten has developed, it will allow more gluten development and a more open structure, and a high-rising dough. If you are mixing your dough in a bread machine, add the fat at the add-in beep. If you are making the dough by hand, you can wait until the last few minutes of kneading to add the fat.
6. What to expect when you retard the dough. There are positive and negative characteristics to chilling the dough (retarding) in the refrigerator. It develops more flavor and a slightly more open texture. But chilling also affects the rise and oven-spring (negatively), and to compensate for this, after chilling, you can dissolve 1/2 t. of yeast in a few tablespoons of warm water and knead this into the dough before shaping since chilling dough also retards the action of the yeast, and even kills some of the yeast. Using this method may give you the extra loft you are looking for, rather than thinking it needed to rise more, which may actually have been over-proofing your dough.

-Grainlady

They look soooo good that people would overlook that the taste isn't your usual perfection!

grainlady, I usually do not use acid because I hate bread with vinegar and my mother is allergic to lemon. I don't buy the horribly overpriced Fruit Fresh, I just break open a Vitamin C tablet, so that may be an option, and occasionally I use orange juice in place of some of the liquid.

This was a no-knead recipe and the loaf was free formed, so I couldn't use a dough rising bucket or other container to check and make sure it doubled, I had to rely on my eyes. The loaf gets formed and put onto a peel dusted with cornmeal, then when risen sufficiently it gets slid onto a hot cast iron griddle heated in the oven in an effort to duplicate the "baking steel" which is heavy and expensive and which I have no room to store.

So I made a 3 loaf batch of no-knead dough using homeground wheat. After a day, I made the free form loaf, which was edible but still too dense and heavy. About a week later my choice was to bake the remaining dough or toss it out, because it was getting too sour for anyone's taste. That's when I made cinnamon rolls in an effort to use the sweetness to cover the sour flavor, and I made very sure that I let those rolls rise a good long time before baking, even though I was afraid I was at the edge of over proofing.

The next batch of wheat I'll buy will be the white stuff, as I have not been happy with a single loaf of bread made with the hard red wheat from Wheat Montana.

Annie

Shambo, I've occasionally tried orange juice, and don't really see a difference. The wheat that I grind myself seems to be stronger and makes a thick and dense loaf, even with orange juice. I'll give the True Orange a try, when I find some.

In the meantime, at least the texture is better....

Annie

No-knead bread - now that's a horse of a different color.....

1. From "Healthy Bread in Five Minutes a Day", the amount of dough they suggest for making a 1# loaf is the size of a grapefruit, or a cantaloupe-size (2# of dough) for a loaf pan. By any chance are you using the recipe/s from this book?

2. For a large amount of dough have you ever tried placing the dough ball in an 8" or 9" round cake pan? The sides of the pan will help prevent too much spread and may help the rise and texture. I still wouldn't wait until the dough has doubled in bulk before placing in the oven as that may actually be over-proofing it due to the lack of extensibility from being 100% whole grain dough. "Double" was a standard set for processed bleached and unbleached flour when it was also bromated. Bromates were dough enhancers that have lost favorability in the commercial world.

3. You may want to try a mix of 75% red wheat and 25% spelt, or up to 50/50, to help reduce the bitterness. I would also add 1/4 c. vital wheat gluten for each 7-cups of flour because of the lower amount of gluten in spelt.

4. Are you adding steam to the oven to aid oven spring? Place a small cast iron skillet in the oven and add boiling water to the skillet (I use a long-spouted watering can to fill the skillet with boiling water. Shut the door for a couple minutes - then add the bread.

5. Citric acid is a kitchen staple, especially for acidic baths for foods I dehydrate - which is the method now suggested in order to prevent bacteria growth in dehydrated foods. I purchase anywhere from 2# to 5# at a time. I never purchase vitamin C tablets because I don't use that particular supplement (we consume food for our vitamin C), and if there is an expensive form to add to bread dough, I would suspect that would be it. I've purchased lots of Fruit Fresh (or other brands) discounted after canning season. When you're talking about 1/8 t. per loaf of bread, a 5-oz. container will last a LONG time.

6. I've used hundreds of pounds of Bronze Chief over the years, but Prairie Gold was always my favorite for making bread. I also purchased the same wheat King Arthur uses for milling their White Whole Wheat Flour for this region from the mill that processes it (located just outside of town), but I liked Prairie Gold the best. I used a 50/50 mix of red and white wheat, cooked, to make other things using "No Wheat Grinder Wheat Recipes" by Cindi Van Bibber http://cindislifestyletreasures.blogspot.com/p/books.html  I gave the book away, or I'd share recipes that might work for you.

I got a jar of vitamin C crystals just for baking. The price per use is practically zero and it doesn't seem to pick up moisture and go weird. I imagine it's a lifetime supply, since I'm pretty sure C doesn't degrade if you don't get it wet.

Grainlady, I use Vitamin C because my ex and I owned a health food store and I got about a zillion capsules free. I eventually used them all, but now Ashley is working at the store with her Dad so she brought me another zillion capsules free.

Vitamin C does not become dangerous or toxic, although it does become less effective with time, so I store them in a cool place, my "root cellar/back room" and use them until they are gone.

I've found no use for citric acid other than cleaning the dishwasher, I also use the Vitamin C to treat fruits for drying and to prevent oxidation while canning apple slices, etc.

The recipe I used is from Mother Earth News. I'm trying to not add VWG or other things because my goal is to make a 100% whole wheat loaf with wheat I ground myself, not adding white flour or other purchased additives. I think it's not going to happen as it just doesn't taste good.

So, I'll buy different wheat and see how that goes, the last of the loaf above went to breadcrumbs as even the dogs didn't really want to eat it. Funny, the cinnamon rolls got consumed, though! I think it might be the sugar. (ahem)

I have baked the loaves in a cast iron dutch oven and in cake pans, but it wasn't really a matter of needing "confinement" to allow it to rise sufficiently, it was just a matter of looking at it and deciding whether it was ready. It clearly wasn't. But since I complained about texture in the original thread, I thought I'd add this to show that a better texture could be obtained if allowed to rise just a bit more. In other words, I was confessing my own mistakes. Which I make plenty of. (grin)

I did put a baking pan below the griddle in the hot oven and poured water into the hot pan to create steam, so that wasn't the issue either.

I posted this on the original "baking steel" thread, but here's the loaf after baking but before cutting, so you can see it did rise and make a nicely rounded loaf. I just didn't let the cold dough rise enough, fearing I would over-proof it. The cinnamon rolls I just let rise and figured if they over proofed, they'd be chicken feed and I'd get them back in the form of eggs anyway, LOL.

What I was really trying to do was see whether my cast iron griddle would be a viable substitute for a much more expensive, heavy and hard to store baking steel. I guess I accomplished that, it worked pretty well, I think.

Annie