ARG, I was kidding (mostly, but I had mentioned something about the stairs in another chapter of the saga and learned about the dog, and luggage) but it really does make the approach to the bedroom, and the entry as a whole, really nice and clean :) And now I look closer I see that His is a closet, not the whole space, which is nice. Wait, that sounds like he gets less space. I mean, he has enclosed storage, but the open space in front of it is dressing and passage space. And not in a hallway like before.

I feel this gave me lots to think about and work out. My needs which ARG and I had discussed after he was gracious enough to do this plan which is better in terms of the "door issue" is that DH and I are both on different sleep/wake cycles. This was why I originally designed the house with the doors to the bathroom and closets outside the bedroom. However if the footprint of the house can be kept the same, which ARG did show, and we can figure out a better way to lay out the master suite area while still keeping the entry to bathroom and closets more out of the line of fire so to speak, I am all for it.

ARG had also made another suggestion for the other side of the house and I immediately agreed with that change. Here it is.

Oh yes, the old "HIS" and "HERS" closet and the allotted space.

I was relating to CP privately when we were discussing this that Mrs. Architectrunnerguy and I have the exact same size walk in closets....roughly 6' wide by 8' deep. Well, her closet is filled with all her stuff and my closet is filled with all my stuff, PLUS the Christmas decorations, PLUS the suitcases, PLUS boxes of old tax records, PLUS MORE OF HER STUFF!!

So, while we architects may choose certain labels, marital reality may dictate something entirely different. And ya know, that's entirely ok. I like to think as a male, I'll gladly give up a little closet space any day to be able to feast my eye on my well dressed better half! That's a trade well worth it!!

Well ARG really got me thinking today about the space. It had been bothering me too so I played most of the day. I didn't want to change the footprint or the upstairs even though I really liked what ARG did. So I came up with this for the master suite area. Thoughts appreciated. The closet in the hallway I'm not sure what I'll do with yet. Part will need to be a linen closet, but I'm going to research some other ways of creating a nice space there so it's not so closety.

We lose the built in bench in the foyer, but that's not a big deal to me.

If people feel this works, I'll get it into my builder. I'm sure he will not be happy. LOL.

I think all of these are strong improvements--congratulations gals and guys! I'm wondering, however, if there's need on the front porch for the wide stairs leading to the swale. Will there be a landscaped walk or path leading across the swale to the steps? Or will there be an enlarged "hardscape area" which connects both sets of stairs to give some logic for having them both?

Just my opinion - the door to the garage is in a bad location. If you plan on parking two cars, you will always need to walk around one to get to the door. In an earlier plan you had the door at the back of the garage, much more accessible to both garage stalls and it pushed the pantry closer to the kitchen (you don't have to walk down the hall to get something from the pantry).

In regards to the master bedroom closets within the hallway to the master bath, why not just leave the doors off? My guess is that they would be open almost 100% of the time anyway.

Thank you Virgil. I've had some excellent help and I think it's paid off.

I'm wondering, however, if there's need on the front porch for the wide stairs leading to the swale. Will there be a landscaped walk or path leading across the swale to the steps? Or will there be an enlarged "hardscape area" which connects both sets of stairs to give some logic for having them both?

If I keep the stairs down towards the swale, then yes, I'll create a hardscape area to connect both sets of stairs. I haven't completely decided yet.

Thank you adkbml.

Just my opinion - the door to the garage is in a bad location. If you plan on parking two cars, you will always need to walk around one to get to the door. In an earlier plan you had the door at the back of the garage, much more accessible to both garage stalls and it pushed the pantry closer to the kitchen (you don't have to walk down the hall to get something from the pantry).

I keep going back and forth regarding this one. I say that because this way it makes the door from the garage closer to the kitchen and it puts the bathroom closer to DH's study. However, the advantage as you noted is if it's at the back, we won't have to walk around a car and additionally if we ever need to convert to a ramp, having it at the back might be easier to do the conversion.

In regards to the master bedroom closets within the hallway to the master bath, why not just leave the doors off?

Because DH is a SLOB and the last thing I want to do is walk by his closet on a daily basis and see his stuff flung in the closet. It's why we're switching from a single master closet to two closets. His mess drives me nuts. LOL.

And the stairs are a straight run?

No the stairs are not a straight run. They are the same as before

Instead of a pantry (which you originally said you didn't want/need), could you make that space into a shower instead (make a modest full bath on that side of the house)? It would be great for pool users to be able to access a shower/changing space w/o having to go in the master suite. It also makes your husband's study a viable bedroom space in the long run.

Thanks rmsaustin.

Instead of a pantry (which you originally said you didn't want/need), could you make that space into a shower instead (make a modest full bath on that side of the house)? It would be great for pool users to be able to access a shower/changing space w/o having to go in the master suite. It also makes your husband's study a viable bedroom space in the long run.

Originally, I didn't want a pantry because originally I did have a reach in closet back there, and was planning on having a pantry cabinet in the kitchen. However, I eliminated the pantry cabinet and with the rearranging of the back hall, I need a closet/pantry back there.

However, the way it is designed now, if in the future we wanted or needed the extra shower, it wouldn't be a difficult thing to add.

Ok, after thinking about it, I moved the garage stairs back to the end of the garage so we don't have to walk around a car to get into the door.

I took the doors off of the storage area. I'll put shelves higher up and it will be a good place to store the trash bins too.

I changed the door to the powder room to be in the hall from the study to the kitchen vs the hall from the garage to outside.

I removed the pocket door in the hallway to the master bedroom. Now that I moved the bathroom and closets, the pocket door is no longer needed to close off the space.

One thing I'm thinking of doing, which was indirectly another idea from ARG is creating some sort of "pass through" laundry basket that I can access from my closet.

Hmm, when they build, have them plumb that pantry for water - if you ever decide to make it a shower, the job will be even easier.

Coat closet next to elevator: shouldn't that be an out-swing door? I'd want to bring that door even with the elevator door for looks, which would also give me a deeper closet: you could put shelves for storage behind where you hang clothes.

Master bath seems so much larger than it was originally. With only one entrance to the master bath, it seems like quite a walk to get there from the kitchen, if, for example, the powder room is unavailable. Personally I'd want to play around with this: see if I could create an alternate entrance to the master bath, maybe where toilet closet is now. I'd also be tempted to have that be the only entrance to the master bath! (I've always felt that a proper master suite should consist of a vestibule room/hall from which you can directly access the bedroom, bathroom, and closets) I think this works if you put the closets where the shower and tub are now.

Powder room: I like the idea of adding a shower, to make it a combo powder room and pool cabana room, and for the rare occasion when you have lots of guests at the same time. The shower doesn't have to take up the whole pantry: you should still have enough space left for a shallow closet lined with shelves, especially if you move the garage stairs back to the middle. I think that's okay.

You may have already commented on these very minor thoughts (sorry if I missed it in the above interactions):

- Another door option - unless you are worried about the sound of the washer/dryer, I would skip putting those doors on. They seem like they would just get in the way (you would need to keep both open when you are working in that area). Since it is down a hallway that does not lead to a more public space, I think the area is remove enough not to have doors.

- Any thoughts on moving your outside kitchen/grill to the opposite side? That way it would be very convenient to the kitchen.

PS. Looking back, I see you used to have the coat closet bigger, and the master bath and closet arranged more like I'm suggesting you try. Ha! It never ends!

The new garage storage area is perfect for the trash cans. Now: how will you roll them out on trash day? In our house, if someone doesn't park the car just right, we have to back out the minivan to roll the cans. As empty nesters you probably are beyond the minivan stage...unless you do a lot of estate-sale-cruising or have a booth at the art fairs.

So, would you like a door there where the window is?

Actually, looking at it now, the bins should probably go against the back wall: easy to access from the house, and easy to roll out that back door.

@keywest230

Our pool bath has a shower. When we bought the house we thought it would be very useful but it turns out that no one uses it. We decided instead to put a linen closet in our new home's pool bath for storing swim towels and swim suits. Right now we don't have a good place to store them. The former owners stored the towels outside which I thought led to dirty towels. We're planning to install an outdoor shower instead for rinsing off before coming into the house from the wooded backyard.

Thanks Keywest.

Coat closet next to elevator: shouldn't that be an out-swing door? I'd want to bring that door even with the elevator door for looks, which would also give me a deeper closet: you could put shelves for storage behind where you hang clothes.

Good catch!

Master bath seems so much larger than it was originally. With only one entrance to the master bath, it seems like quite a walk to get there from the kitchen, if, for example, the powder room is unavailable. Personally I'd want to play around with this: see if I could create an alternate entrance to the master bath, maybe where toilet closet is now. I'd also be tempted to have that be the only entrance to the master bath! (I've always felt that a proper master suite should consist of a vestibule room/hall from which you can directly access the bedroom, bathroom, and closets) I think this works if you put the closets where the shower and tub are now.

I did make a change based on your suggestion and am toying with it. I'll post it below after I respond and see what everyone says. I wouldn't want the closets at the bottom where I'd have to go through the bathroom to get to the closets. Also one of the negatives in our condo now is that we have the bathroom attached to the bedroom, and when I turn on the bathroom light at night, I wake up DH. (Makes me feel guilty.)

Powder room: I like the idea of adding a shower, to make it a combo powder room and pool cabana room, and for the rare occasion when you have lots of guests at the same time. The shower doesn't have to take up the whole pantry: you should still have enough space left for a shallow closet lined with shelves, especially if you move the garage stairs back to the middle. I think that's okay.

If I do anything it will be to add an outdoor "shower" where folks can rinse off and I'll add plumbing for the possibility in the future if someone wants to add a shower later on. For the one or possibly two times a year someone might want to use a shower after swimming, I can't see the advantage of paying for a shower and then having to constantly keep it clean.

Thanks artemis.

Hmm, when they build, have them plumb that pantry for water - if you ever decide to make it a shower, the job will be even easier.

Definitely a good idea. And then if we decide to sell, we can market it as a potential 4br 3 bath house.

Thanks adkbml.

- Another door option - unless you are worried about the sound of the washer/dryer, I would skip putting those doors on. They seem like they would just get in the way (you would need to keep both open when you are working in that area). Since it is down a hallway that does not lead to a more public space, I think the area is remove enough not to have doors.

Not so much the sound of the WD but seeing hanging clothes or just seeing the W/D. One thought I had was to make the doors the kind that slide back into the wall along the sides of the W/D. However, I have a long time until I have to worry about that.

- Any thoughts on moving your outside kitchen/grill to the opposite side? That way it would be very convenient to the kitchen.

Yes but it will also depend on how the outside lays out once it is started. Right now, the reason for it being where it is, is the sliding doors on the dining side would open onto it and we didn't want the grill acting like an island and blocking the view to the backyard.

Thanks bp.

Being this is a new development of 19 (18, now that we bought 1/2 of the lot next door) homes, no one is quite sure yet where trash pickup will be. We'll adapt. Thankfully we're only 2 people and a dog the majority of the time so we don't generate a ton of trash.

Thanks tcufrog.

Our pool bath has a shower. When we bought the house we thought it would be very useful but it turns out that no one uses it. We decided instead to put a linen closet in our new home's pool bath for storing swim towels and swim suits. Right now we don't have a good place to store them.

Good thought in that I'll have to figure out a place to store towels for guests swimming.

keywest got me thinking that the newer plan didn't quite work the way I wanted it to. So I added a door out from the closet. My master closet now would be about 8' long x 5'6" deep approximately. I measured the space I have in my closet now, and that's about what I have. It may mean one less shoe shelf.

So of the two, do you prefer the original way I had the master suite set up or the new way? And why?

Original setup:

Cpartist- re: the washer, will you have a top loader or a front loader? I ask because if you have a front loader, you have to keep the door open to keep mildew from growing in your machine. Top-loader is no issue b/c it doesn't seal as well and the door can remain closed when in use or not. But you'll have to keep the door open on the closet and the machine until it dries between uses.

I have this issue with my front loader as it's in a closet upstairs (very novel for a house built in '55) so it crowds the hallway when it's open for drying. If you'd like pictures of how it looks, let me know. A barn-style door might help, but it's something to think about.

Thanks Amy.

Cpartist- re: the washer, will you have a top loader or a front loader? I ask because if you have a front loader, you have to keep the door open to keep mildew from growing in your machine. Top-loader is no issue b/c it doesn't seal as well and the door can remain closed when in use or not. But you'll have to keep the door open on the closet and the machine until it dries between uses.

I have this issue with my front loader as it's in a closet upstairs (very novel for a house built in '55) so it crowds the hallway when it's open for drying. If you'd like pictures of how it looks, let me know. A barn-style door might help, but it's something to think about

It's a FL machine. I have FL machines now in my hall closet in my condo and I don't have the problem. What I do now is open the machine door and the thingy at the top and then close the closet door until it dries and I've never had a problem. The washing machine door "rests" against the closet door while it dries. The closet is deep enough to give the machines a nice amount of room inside.

Also, I've been reading and many of the newer machines supposedly have something to help with the mildew issue.

That bath set up looks so nice, and roomier. The linen closet is lost, but will you add a storage cabinet above the commode? Perhaps the toilet room can have glass around the top foot or two of the walls for light and an airy, Florida feel.

That bath set up looks so nice, and roomier. The linen closet is lost, but will you add a storage cabinet above the commode? Perhaps the toilet room can have glass around the top foot or two of the walls for light and an airy, Florida feel.

Thanks bp.

The closet in the hallway is about 6' long so I can use a part of that closet as my linen closet. (I don't like linen closets in bathrooms)

And yes, I'll add some glass to the commode so it's not dark inside. I have that now with my commode in my condo and it definitely helps.

So some random thoughts:

• Like the new layout. It looks less fussy and busy. The "old" layout seemed like there were a lot of doors and the flow seemed off but I can't put my finger on it
• the new layout leaves your laundry more in the hall but I am thinking that's a good thing. There will be laundry generated in other areas like guess rooms or kitchen and this location seems better and maybe it's just because feeling like its outside the bedroom gives it th mental separation so you won't feel like getting up to fold things when you hear the dryer stop. Same reason I don't put a desk in the bedroom - NO WORKING IN THERE!
• i think your shower will be more useable
• I am not sure how open your stair is, but perhaps this could be place to put your sliding barn door if there is a wall to the right of the staircase?
• And I do like the idea of having a glass transom in the water closet. I had been in a house with a laundry room that didn't have any Windows but the transom into the hall made a tremendous difference - especially with high ceilings

Think you are continuing to improve on this and the extra elbow room will pay off here!

Thank you jannicone.

Like the new layout. It looks less fussy and busy. The "old" layout seemed like there were a lot of doors and the flow seemed off but I can't put my finger on it

There were a lot of doors. Plus it felt like I was "exposed" in the sense that if we had guests, it meant I'd have to close the hall pocket door. This one feels more private.

the new layout leaves your laundry more in the hall but I am thinking that's a good thing. There will be laundry generated in other areas like guess rooms or kitchen and this location seems better and maybe it's just because feeling like its outside the bedroom gives it th mental separation so you won't feel like getting up to fold things when you hear the dryer stop. Same reason I don't put a desk in the bedroom - NO WORKING IN THERE!

Exactly!

i think your shower will be more useable

What I'm thinking is more about the toilet if we ever need to open it up because of needing a walker or a wheelchair, it will be easier to take down the commode walls.

I am not sure how open your stair is, but perhaps this could be place to put your sliding barn door if there is a wall to the right of the staircase?

I'm actually not a fan of barn doors, but I can see a nook below for our dog.

And I do like the idea of having a glass transom in the water closet. I had been in a house with a laundry room that didn't have any Windows but the transom into the hall made a tremendous difference - especially with high ceilings

Yep, I like that idea a lot.

I redrew the master suite as accurately as I could from the original plans before we enlarged the house. This would be quite accurate.

My closet would wind up being about 8'6" x 5'8".

DH's closet is the same size as it was.

I shortened the vanity cabinet but it's still over 80" long.

The shower is 5' x 42".

The hall closet will be 3' wide x 5' deep.

Thanks for the enlargement - 4 additional thoughts (3 likes! and a question)

1. Love the window between the sinks in the vanity - natural light!!!!
2. Love the windows over the tub, :D
3. And actually like that you removed / moved the shower and it DOESN'T have a window.
4. Shower controls - are you putting them right inside the door? We've been playing around with control locations trying to make sure that you don't get soaked turning the shower on / blasted with cold water, etc. ;-) In on bath - we're actually using a remove electronic control that will be outside the shower simply because there was no good place to put it inside the shower.

Thanks again jannicone. Yes the shower control is on the right hand wall as you open the shower door. We have that now in our shower here, and it works very well. With us, we like to also adjust the shower as we're using it, so electronic controls would not work.

I'm getting ahead of things now, but consider an opaque glass door to your bedroom. Here's why: even with the lovely, open stairs, it's a bit of a narrow passage, and the door would give light and interest at the end of the hall.It's still private, and besides the bed is around the corner.

Have you considered moving the Hers closet door down a bit? I wonder if you could get a lot more storage that way. A wall of 12" shelving at least if not enough for hangers.

Also, I know you have considered and dismissed the thought, but I think having an accessible shower off the study would not only improve resale, it may become invaluable as you age and if one of you requires nursing care. The garage closet could be made shallow with a reach in from the garage side and a reach in from the kitchen side. Also, that is a lot of room for the HVAC/Pool closets. I believe you could easily create at least a reach in closet from the garage.

cp-I think (can I be so bold and say KNOW instead?) you will really appreciate that door into the master bath from the hall. Great move.

Thanks bp.

I'm getting ahead of things now, but consider an opaque glass door to your bedroom. Here's why: even with the lovely, open stairs, it's a bit of a narrow passage, and the door would give light and interest at the end of the hall.It's still private, and besides the bed is around the corner.

My only concern with that would be DH would dislike the light coming into the room at night from the hall.

Would it help at all if I mentioned that the stairway itself, not including the railing is 42" as is the hallway? And that by the door to the master the hallway opens up to 4' wide?

Thanks night owl.

Have you considered moving the Hers closet door down a bit? I wonder if you could get a lot more storage that way. A wall of 12" shelving at least if not enough for hangers.

Move it down which way? I can't move it further down towards the foyer because I want to keep all walkways a minimum of 42" and that is what the walkway into the bathroom from the hallway is now.

Also, I know you have considered and dismissed the thought, but I think having an accessible shower off the study would not only improve resale, it may become invaluable as you age and if one of you requires nursing care.

This is why I have the pantry next to the bathroom, so if in the future a shower is needed or wanted there, it can be added. I'll also have two bedrooms upstairs. One is technically my studio, but it's actually larger than my master bedroom and the other one will be 11'8" x 13'4" and will be right at the top of the stairway.

I honestly just don't think we'll ever use it and then it will be one more thing to have to keep clean, whereas I will use every inch of the pantry. When I was growing up, we had a bathroom off the back hall along with a small room just like what will DH will have. It had a shower in it that was never used once in over 25 years. My mother used to use it to dry clothes she didn't want going in the dryer.

Also, that is a lot of room for the HVAC/Pool closets. I believe you could easily create at least a reach in closet from the garage.

I agree that looks like a lot of room for the HVAC/Pool outside area but we'll see.

As for a reach in closet inside the garage, there is one by the right side of the garage towards the front.

cp-I think (can I be so bold and say KNOW instead?) you will really appreciate that door into the master bath from the hall. Great move.

Autumn, yes you can say you know, and I think you are probably right. I can think of all those times as we're rushing out the door and both DH and I say, "Just a minute, I want to use the bathroom one more time", so one of us uses the hall bathroom, and one of us uses the master bathroom. If I had to walk all the way around into the bedroom and then through the closets, it would have been a bit much. (And yes, I realize what I just said is TMI. Sorry!)

Not even rush moments. Just the I need to grab x, y from either bathroom or closet a quick second is really not so much a quick second if you are always entering through the master. Besides that any differing wake/sleep schedules will be a breeze. It will be convenient no matter what you are needing or doing. Woot woot!

I would suggest putting a door between the master bedroom and the reach in closets. There will need to be a light on for your husband to see in his reach in closet and if you are sleeping it could wake you up. Maybe put a door there and not one from the closet hall to the bathroom? If you do put a door from the master to the closet hall, you would need to move the hers closet door down towards the bathroom for door swing issues.

If Mr. CPa opens his closet door, it will somewhat block the light, so maybe it won't be too bad. Are you a very light sleeper, CPa? Or, I have seen a door that pulled in one direction, latches a closet closed, pulled in the other direction, latches the hall doorway closed.

Thank you both!

I would suggest putting a door between the master bedroom and the reach in closets. There will need to be a light on for your husband to see in his reach in closet and if you are sleeping it could wake you up. Maybe put a door there and not one from the closet hall to the bathroom? If you do put a door from the master to the closet hall, you would need to move the hers closet door down towards the bathroom for door swing issues.

If Mr. CPa opens his closet door, it will somewhat block the light, so maybe it won't be too bad. Are you a very light sleeper, CPa? Or, I have seen a door that pulled in one direction, latches a closet closed, pulled in the other direction, latches the hall doorway closed.

Good thought, but not an issue because DH takes his clothes out the night before (from his dresser in the bedroom as well as the closet) and leaves them on the chair. In the morning, he grabs his clothes and goes into the bathroom to get ready.

Thanks Nightowl. Duh to me. When I read what you wrote before I thought it said to move the closet down, not the closet door. Yes I've been thinking about doing just that. I'm going to wait to see exactly how wide the closet will be before making that decision.

I like your idea for the garage.

BTW, there's a slight change to the garage area. Remember the zoning department?

Well I was under the impression the garage needed to be 15' back from the front of the house, which would mean the kitchen area. No, apparently it's 15' back from the area of the front of the house that has the largest area, or in this case, the living room area.

So I had to move the garage back, along with the study. Here's approximately how it will look.

Then my draftsman had a good idea in that he suggested moving the stairway so we lose none of the back of the garage.

Good idea on the stairs from the garage. The garage is comparatively shallow (but workable) as it is, so you don't want to take any depth away for the stairs.

I was thinking of that for the garage anyway, but wasn't sure you'd want to lose the interior hall space lol. Now, is the storage space included in the required setback? Or no, because it won't house a car (not even a Cooper Mini, maybe a Big Wheel)

CP: With the garage pushed farther back, is the door/stairs to the garage still in the best place? Might you now prefer them in that odd space between the kitchen and the garage? (I know, I know, you really wanted to put a piece of furniture there)

If you made that change, I wonder if you could then pull the office back toward the kitchen where the stairs currently are. With a smaller pantry, you could pull the office even closer to the kitchen. Not sure how important reducing overall square footage is to you vs. having more storage space.

And how about a small window over the prep sink to see what's going on in the driveway in front of the garage?

Thank you mojomom.

Thank you bp.

I was thinking of that for the garage anyway, but wasn't sure you'd want to lose the interior hall space lol. Now, is the storage space included in the required setback? Or no, because it won't house a car (not even a Cooper Mini, maybe a Big Wheel)

No I don't think it's considered garage space as it's storage and 1/2 of it is the bump out for my buffet.

Thanks keywest.

CP: With the garage pushed farther back, is the door/stairs to the garage still in the best place? Might you now prefer them in that odd space between the kitchen and the garage? (I know, I know, you really wanted to put a piece of furniture there)

I think this still might be the best place because I don't want to give up my buffet in the dining room, but more importantly, if the day ever came that stairs were too difficult, it would be easy to put a ramp along the back stair there, and still fit a small car in the bay closest to the house. (BTW: The buffet was custom designed by myself and built by my cabinet maker. Here's a bad picture of the buffet on the right. It's cherry and lacewood.)

Plus I definitely don't want to walk into the house from the garage and walk right into the dining room/kitchen area.

And how about a small window over the prep sink to see what's going on in the driveway in front of the garage?

Oops! The window over the prep sink is in the revised plans I sent the draftsman. I just forgot to add it back here.

Yup -that buffet is worth any plan rearranging you have to do in order to showcase it! Gorgeous!

I'm curious. What happened between the current and the original design? It looks like two different homes going on; one story on the left and two story on the right. The original elevation seems more balanced. IMO, the foyer should be welcoming, a first impression, give a glimpse and be a beautiful avenue to the rest of the home. The latest foyer layout I see looks as if you just run right into walls and doors? like walking right into a closet or mudroom/service entrance with no impressive view of the courtyard/pool. Would you want a closet in the study so that it could resell as an additional bedroom? Maybe I'm missing a bigger picture or didn't read all of the threads in entirety.

I'm curious. What happened between the current and the original design?

The original house was on a smaller lot and because of lot restrictions we wound up with a house we weren't happy with, so we bought an additional 1/2 a lot. That gave us an additional 3000 square feet which allowed us to fix our master suite area, enlarge DH's study, add a second garage bay and make our guest bedroom right sized. It also allowed us to put a real lanai on, and add a needed 2' to the kitchen.

But most importantly it allowed us to turn the house so now our rear faced south instead of west. I consider that a major positive. If you notice the west side of the house has almost no windows and in our hot climate, that's a good thing. It's also set five feet from the lot line, so will have a fence and really not be viewed, so I'm not too concerned about it lacking windows.

It looks like two different homes going on; one story on the left and two story on the right. The original elevation seems more balanced.

Thank you for your thoughts. The dreaded garage. We could have had a detached garage but then we would have almost no driveway space,and instead too much land would be in front where we wouldn't use it.

Also be aware you're looking at a flat elevation. In 3D it will look different. The garage will be set back and was made purposely lower so the house itself became the focal point. It was done deliberately. And of course once it's landscaped it will be even less noticeable.

IMO, the foyer should be welcoming, a first impression, give a glimpse and be a beautiful avenue to the rest of the home. The latest foyer layout I see looks as if you just run right into walls and doors? like walking right into a closet or mudroom/service entrance with no impressive view of the courtyard/pool.

All houses have compromises. Because we are on a smaller lot (9000 square feet) we had to make some compromises. Because we absolutely wanted the house backyard to "envelope" us with a courtyard feel, we had to make choices as to which rooms would open to the courtyard. To us it was most important that our kitchen/dining/living room and master suite open to the courtyard. And my DH was insistent that his study look out on the courtyard too. It wasn't important to us that our foyer, which we'd spend almost no time in, have a view out to the courtyard.

So we made sure all those rooms mentioned had windows on at least two sides to bring in views and light.

To help our foyer, we will make the wall that you first see interesting with lighting and a beautiful painting or large mirror. Our stairway will be open with a craftsman style staircase. The opening to the great room will be cased in a way that creates interest and the desire to explore further and because the great room has windows on both the north and south walls, the light in the great room should lead you to want to move from the entry foyer to the great room. Adding to that is the foyer ceiling will be 9' high while the great room will have 10' ceilings so it will "open" up.

Would you want a closet in the study so that it could resell as an additional bedroom?

Yes and we added a closet for DH to have a place for his things. This is our retirement home and we're not building the house for resale. We're building it for us and our needs now and hopefully into the future.

Maybe I'm missing a bigger picture or didn't read all of the threads in entirety.

I think you may have missed a few.

Here are the most updated plans and elevations.

cp - how is the whole loan/permitting saga going? any progress?

cp - how is the whole loan/permitting saga going? any progress?

We've had our loan since July. That's not the problem. It's the permitting. We got our lawyer involved who called the city.

There was supposedly an issue with the platte, but it turned out they were reading the old platte for the development from 2007 and not the updated one from 2012. The old one didn't mention that lots could be combined, but the new one does. Supposedly the city lawyer didn't see that the new platte said it could be combined until our lawyer highlighted it in yellow. This was after my DH (a former lawyer) spent a day going over documents online and offline to find it and then went to our lawyer.

Then our lawyer said to the city, give us the language we need, which we did. We submitted and now the city is supposedly still asking for more. We're just so dang sick of the whole thing at this point and we're not sure who's at fault anymore.

We were hoping we'd be in for my DH's 70th birthday next September, but that's not about to happen.

I understand. I'm near Tampa and I see the city's architectural review meetings broadcast on TV sometimes. Seems crazy all they go through particularly if the home is in historic areas.

Thanks Mike. It's been one miscue after another. We started the process of permitting the beginning of June. A friend had his permits within 6 weeks.