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After gardening for over 30 years I've still failed to mature into "choosing the right plants ,right ferts and no pesticides lol Since I'm only 74 maybe there's still hope?? Still awestruck with the possibilities though and the glory of nature but it sure would be nice if nature would see my point of view a little more often??lol gary

@garyfla_gw I am of the mind that there is no perfect way to grow plants. It seems the ones I baby the most do the worst sometimes. I used to live in a 2nd story apartment with a nice outdoor deck when I was young. When one of my plants started acting up, I would just put it out on the deck and say to it "Just go outside to die." They never died. Most of them came back better than ever. I was just babying them too much. I now garden with with benign neglect. I hardly ever baby anything, and they seem to do much better that way.

There are two major approaches to gardening, I think. One is trying to dominate nature and the other is working with nature. Both tend to have their fair share of failures, but when the first type fails, then multiple stategies are taken to try to force success (or sometimes the same method over and over); when the second type encounters failure, other plant options are sought. Many of us tend to lean toward one type, but will fluctuate between the two. Eventually the dominating type will give up on trying to grow whatever plant that keeps failing and even the most passive type will often give a plant more than one shot hoping a slight change in conditions will give better results.
Some gardeners do enjoy seeing a frost burned plant recover or spying the first reseeds germinating, but there are many who will repeatedly deadhead to force as many blooms as possible, rip out a hardy plant if it loses its leaves to frost and will quickly fill an empty spot with already flowering plants from the store.

I think in the US, the dominating, intolerant mindset is still the majority, but that majority is slowly declining. And I hate to say this, but it seems the more passive mindset seems to grow more quickly as a more 'too-set-in-their-ways' generation declines. I have been to seminars and/or had conversations with people who insist on using rather destructive methods to try (and often fail) to force certain plants to grow, because it is how they have always done it. Obviously, this is not a blanket statement and there are many exceptions, but it does at least appear to be this way.

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My latest surprise is a NZ violet has been pampered with ideal soil never below 60 where it struggled for at least 10 years . Moved it out to the "house plant" section where it flowered weakly Is now popping up in the cracks of the paving I put in lol had I put it there I'm sure it would have died instantly?? lol

I put in the paving to keep the ground from getting muddy and now I get to jump over the violets on the way to the fish pond . Those in the "ideal "location are growing but at half the rate Real surpise was that they are NZ not Australian as when I bought them lol

Michael i always called my mine a "grow area " garden being too dignified That term to me conjures up a highly organized site with multiple grow sites and for a specific purpose I looked up the term and it had 5 definitions none of which seemed to apply. The closest "An area of ground where plants are cultivated ." least "A large public structure were sports or concerts are held "lol I sing once in a while but no public!!. I also keep a few animals both domestic and then becomes a Zoological garden Way too grand a concept !! lol gary

I actually deleted half of my post because I was going into a long-winded disertation about the history of gardening, but didn't want to take this thread down a different path, but yes, true cottage gardens were born of necessity. Peasants couldn't afford the the plants the wealthy had and had to grow their own food. They didn't have time to tend to their gardens (veg or flower) because they were too busy working the fields and such. So they picked plants that grew in the nearby hedgerows and forests and planted those amongst their crops so the pollinators would come to their little gardens and set the fruit for them. As plantsmen noticed how quaint and yet attractive these gardens were, they adopted and adapted the style to suit the high standards of the nobility.
I would have to go through my documentaries again to get my facts straight, but I believe the rigid formality was adopted from France around the 16th or 17th century. Around the 19th century, Britain was moving away from strict formality and started to adopt more natural, softer plantings. The plants remained largely exotic, but the the plantings were more hurly, burly and fell a little closer to the ideals of cottage gardens and further away from the style of French Parterres and British Knot gardens. Expansive lawns were also adopted from France in the 17th century, but at this time (19th century) they were also being replaced with more woodland styles.
It is when I read and learn about the history of gardening that I get to wondering how America in the 50's took such a huge step backward in regards to home gardens and how so many who grew up during this time insist the lawn is a distinctly American thing, when it is, in truth, an old French thing that other countries have moved away from.
As quotes go, one that struck a cord with me was "Americans are afraid of nature, afraid of being outside. To the American mind, if it is taller than 3 inches and in the front yard, it has to be cut flat."

It was our English ancestors who started the lawn craze. Used to be, they all had meadows and let the sheeps mow them, but then (and you can look this up as to when -- I don't know) the English started to want neat, pristine lawns. The aristocrats who came over from England to the U.S. and settled brought that with them. Plantations always had large, beautiful lawns. I hate lawns myself, and would not have grass anywhere if I could help it.

I am moving toward a more traditional cottage garden outside my wall, with a goodly part of edibles and herbs. Right now, it's mostly ornamental save the pigeon pea and Everglades tomato, but I hope to change that this year. I definitely want more butterfly attractors.

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I read a letter that Carl Linnaeus the "Father" of botany wrote to the court

as a solution to the famine in Sweden caused by the little ice age "Alternative crops" His list Cocoa,Coconut palms and Vanilla?? Wonder why that didn't work?? Another funny aspect to his work on the binominal system . He could contain ALL the plants of the entire world in 3 books lol

Note the 2010 survey lists 1,589,361 species of plants and animals and another 10,000 have been added since !!! This does not include hybrids nor man made genus!! Does seem logical that the MUST be a limited no.?

But when you think about it the earth is mostly water and there has never been a survey below a mile!! Yet every dive below that results in dozens of unknown species even new life forms . Another is below ground the deepest hole on earth is around nine miles and there are at least unknown bacteria !!

Don't know what this has to do with the dsicussion except that the wonder of life seems to be endless?? lol gary

Americans are the only people who spend billions of dollars a year on a crop they can't eat (Lawns).

It's not only that. Do you realize that more water is wasted on lawns in this country than all agriculture uses? We'd go a long way towards ameliorating a lot of our water woes if we'd get over the lawn thing.

It seems particularly stupid in FL where none of the lawn grasses we use are remotely pleasant to walk on. But maybe Richardia is going to fix this for us. :)

Back when they were blaming the red tide on agriculture, I was saying that it was runoff from residential lawns into the canals and then the creeks and then the rivers and then the Gulf that was causing it. It took them 15 years to admit it, then they blamed it on phosphorous, not because that was what it was (more likely the nitrogen), but because the phosphate mines are running dry.

Phosphate Disappearing

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What would you suggest as a replacement for grass.?? Most of my neighbors keep up with their lawns not so much with shrubs trees.

My collecting is confined to the backyard because it is so labor intensive The front I keep as a lawn in the usual sense and hire the maintenance done.

Very few shrubs which reduces the cost naturally because a lot less work to do

Then there is the swale which is the largest part of most houses in my area

Planting there is against city ordinance so what's left besides a lawn.??

When they redefined the streets they removed the old very neglected rubber trees which were playing havoc with the sewers and drainage and blocking views at intersections . All was replaced with grass except for some divided streets they planted some Black olive and Ixora and mulched the rest

Seemed like a good choice .Much rather see neglected lawns than neglected shrubs?? lol gary

Well, several people have pointed out that if America could get over its lawn obsession and you could hire the lawn guys instead to plant and maintain your organic garden, water use would go way down and you'd get vegetables out of it, too. There are beginning to be companies like that in places where they'll let you do it.

Wow. This thread went waaaaay off track. I'm going outside to wonder in amazement at nature. Continue with your conversation.

Getting back to the "wonder" part of the thread: After many years of gardening I still get a thrill from the first meal prepared with each thing I've grown. Last weekend we had pasta with a simple sauce of the first perennial leeks of the year (well, they weren't the first but it was the first weekend the soil thawed enough that I could dig some out) sautéed in olive oil with the first baby arugula leaves and red pepper flakes.

Also thrilled to see two wrens return for the second year to set up their nest right outside my back door, and to see the very first mini-irises bloom a couple of days ago.

As for lawns, I have been overseeing mine with mini-clover seeds each spring. I really like it! It stays green all winter here in zone 7, it makes a lush ground cover without frequent watering, needs less mowing, and tolerates my dogs peeing all over it. I get lots of compliments on my lawn and I know that the mini-clover is helping my crappy soil rather than demanding fertilizer. I get occasional clover flowers, which the bees love (the bad side is that I can't walk around barefoot when they are harvesting pollen from the lawn). I know some people think this makes the lawn look weedy but I like it.

blueswimmer68, I used to have a whole portion of my lawn in SC overseeded in red clover. I loved it, but unfortunately, I had a young child at the time and bees loved it too, so I had to kill it and replant with centipede grass.

The best thing about gardeners? Golly, the more I try to pin it down, the more I find exceptions -- ones I've learned of from GardenWeb! We come to gardening with various motivations, appreciations, and prejudices. I like to think of my own particular "strengths" (the useful ones LOL) as finding expression in my gardening. The best thing ABOUT gardening is that I feel free to make "mistakes" and no one else really notices (I can place blame for failure on many uncontrollable influences.) But, the best part is feeling grateful and awestruck (a form of meditation, I'm told) in my, or any, garden... getting back to your ode, dirtygardener!

Hi Irma! Good to see you! Yes, I find peace in my garden. I just started practicing a very simple form of meditation, and when I get stressed, I like to go sit outside and do my breathing. My courtyard is such a mess right now that people would ask "How do you get peace from THAT?" but I'm getting really good at visualization. I can "see" in my mind all it will be when I'm done with it, and it makes me very happy.