Thanks for the complements on the teas, but as you'll see most of them are other OGRs or even HTs. Thanks for reminding me of Barcelona's special non-tea status, Jeri. I'm relieved to see your comments since I remember a posting from you years ago scolding people who would say "sure, you can grow teas in zone 5". That's one of the reasons I made sure to put lots of qualifiers on this post - in hot, dry, protected zone 5, you can grow mostly unexciting teas, sometimes... Still, Seil, it's delightful to hear I have company in this kind of experimenting, and I look forward to hearing what kinds of teas and other OGRs might do well for you. Jeannie, it's great that your teas grow to their more magnificent potential for you, and we'd love to see pictures! Ok - here as promised are the closeups of the teas. Anne did a very nice job guessing with a wide shot like that and pegged most of them - the teas were #13, 16, 11, and 4. Yep, one bloom each for 11 and 4, and not very impressive at that. I'll show you closeups of all 5 teas that still survive. First, the better blooming teas - #13, Madame Antoine Mari. It's only about 3 feet tall in its third year (whereas you couldn't keep it that short in California), but it blooms reasonably well off and on in the summer. If all my teas bloomed this well, I might be foolish enough to plant more of them. Maman Cochet (#16 in the photo) is a little above knee height and has survived our winters fairly happily. Since she gets hit with the full force of the west winds, she's the first to get protected in the winter. Georgetown Tea is probably my oldest tea, with over 5 years growth on her, and she has the occasional bloom at the front of the border (#11 in the photo above). You can't see but one bloom, even behind a drooping Savoy hotel. Just to prove she did bloom... I couldn't catch a photo of the whole bush with blooms on it, so here it is from a few days ago, still under 3 feet tall. Here's Mrs. BR Cant with most of the bloom in focus (#4 in the group shot). The next photo gives you an idea of how tall she is, and she's probably my biggest topping out above 4 feet. Now for the contrast - here's Mrs. BR Cant in the background looking more or less tea-like (#4 in the photo), and that tiny 18" wimpy twig in the center front is Duchess de Brabant. (it's the one not remotely visible in the group shot). She's 5 years old, and a toddler could jump over her. To be fair, she gets shadowed out by Queen of Sweden and lots of clematis, and she's supposed to be among the smaller of the teas, but really... I can't recall ever seeing a bloom, but I keep holding out hope, and if she's going to survive I'll keep giving her a chance. She's my poster child for "don't think you're really going to grow teas in zone 5". In case you're curious, here are the rest of the rose IDs by number (I think) - obviously I mix roses and never have one bed of any particular type: 1 - Charlotte Brownell 2 - Dream Come True 3 - Jeanne Lajoie (up a shepherd's hook) 4 - Mrs. BR Cant 5 - Queen of Sweden 6 - yep, Dr. Huey - I had no idea it really could look this nice. I actually potted it up after I ripped it out, since I've only ever deliberately shovel pruned one rose. I figure I kill anything in pots, including philodendrons, so only the good Dr. has a chance anyway. 7 - Scepter'd Isle 8 - Rountuit - the only time it blooms all year (sigh) 9 - Madame Isaac Periere - a terrific OGR for our zone 10 - Vick's Caprice being smothered by MIP (he gets back at her in the fall flush though) 11- Georgetown Tea 12 - Savoy Hotel 13 - Madame Antoine Mari 14 - Acropolis 15 - Careless Love (mine rarely has that lovely stripe) 16 - Maman Cochet (just barely) Cynthia

Like most folks on this thread, I'll have to echo that teas (something separate from Hybrid Teas of course) don't necessarily thrive the further you get from zone 7. It's like anything else - you have to pick and choose among teas, and even then it may depend on local conditions like catsrose says from zone 6. I have had Madame Alfred Carriere for many years, and have planted some other noisettes or tea-noisettes recently (Blush Noisette comes to mind), and so far they've survived fine but are not cane hardy. The problem is that these seem to only bloom on old wood, so while MAC has absolutely massive healthy canes trying to eat my house every year, I've only had one year of bloom out of them in the past 6 years (a very mild winter where most roses had surviving cane). The same goes for many of my Bourbons and Hybrid Perpetuals, including Mme. Isaac Periere. As for teas, I've got some 6-7 year old ones that do fine for me and a few new ones planted. Some teas have died a miserable death (Monsieur Tillier comes to mind) and all of these are in a virtual zone 6 side of my house. The longest surviving ones are Mme. Antoine Mari, Mrs. BR Cant, Maman Cochet, and Duchesse de Brabant. Georgetown Tea was also good until it succumbed to user error. I wouldn't say any of these thrive in the ways expected for warm zone teas, but they make nice modest sized blooming bushes and recover reasonably well from being pruned to the ground even after all the protection I can give them. Bottom line is that zones 7 and to some extent 6 are probably the limits of where teas are likely to survive long-term, but they do need summer heat (we have plenty of that), rather than murky summer gloom like some regions can experience. I'm a bit of an anomaly in zone 5 and I'm fully aware that I'm zone pushing the teas. Nothing like a challenge though. Cynthia

Ugh just had a long update/ coment eaten by the posting gremlins. Will try again with more info later. Later, with added commentary. Le Vesuve. This rose (by tape measure, not by eye) is 4ft 9 by 4ft by 3 ft vertically. So far, no signs of mildew! I'm very happy with it size wise for a first year rose - there are supposedly much hardier roses in my garden that have done less with more, so as to speak. General Schablikine This one has stayed a small hummock, but with one comical 3ft cane. According to "Tea Roses For Warm Gardens," this is it's habit when it's immature so I'm not too worried. It is paler than the others, almost chlorotic looking, and I wonder if it might want an iron/seaweed tonic dose. Mme Anoine Mari. I begin to understand the accolades this rose has; although a little lopsided, it's slowly, gracefully branching out to just under 3ft in all directions, all the while clothed in glossy dark foliage. Mutablis Best freebie EVER. It blooms and grows and blooms and grows, staying shapely and well foliated. Gruss I haven't a new picture of. It's spotlessly healthy and about 4ft tall, but only 18 inches wide. very much looking forward to it becoming established. Both the Ladies H, truck on serenely. They bloom and grow and bloom and grow, more or less continuously. The potted climbing version needs a bigger pot and a less lacksadaisical waterer, but carries on regardless. I do see the plaint about the dead blooms, but it's nothing like the mummified horror that is Alchymist so I can overlook it easily. Also the are both spotless, huzzah, a non sprayed yellow rose in England in September that is NOT imitating a Dalmatian. Leonie Viennot is HUGE - 6ft of growth on every cane. However, it's shown some tendency towards mildew, BUT it's potted and immature. I really need to make a call on a permanent home, but the potential mildew is making me hesitate. Not that it actually is mildewed, just the leaves are crumply like it's GOING to mildew, but never quite gets powdery. It's a dilemma. Latest garden addition (bit scruffy, I haven't finished planting!) Based on how happy I've been with my experimental roses, I'm going to push the boat still further, and try some more teas, chinas and maybe a tea noisette or two. Blush Noisette is bidding fair to be one of the best roses in my garden in a quiet sort of way. Really charming. I'm hoping it's not an outlier! The Perle D'Or I mentioned up thread will be ready this autumn, (although Arethusa is apparently not wanting to play) and I am contemplating Duchesse D'Aerstadt as replacement for the horrible Alchymist, which nothing I can do makes happy. Mme Jules Gravereaux/ Celine Forrestier for the arch, Alexander Hill Gray, Anna Olivier, Clemetina Carbonieri, for the yellow /orange beds and last but not least, Homere and / or Hume's Blush/Odorata to replace Eglantyne. Any thoughts? Guesses as to sizes? My baby Vesuve is already about as big as Beales thought it would top out at, so much for that estimate!

I had both Monsieur Tillier and Mrs BR Cant. They both get large. I think Mrs BR Cant has a better form and will stay more compact (although still large) while MT will be more of a rambling shape. Same as Susan, I lost most of the above ground growth during the polar vortex, but they grew back fine. Unfortunately I had to dig them up when they tore up my yard. They didn't survive in the pots (probably my fault). I do have 2 new Mrs BR Cants now. Before the polar vortes, my Mrs. BR Cant was about 8 feet wide and 5 feet tall.