I would definitely try a china. Le Vesuve is a china which looks like a tea, so that might be a good choice. However, I would do some research to really find out how big it gets there - here it gets 8 x8x8ft, but I realize there it will be much smaller.

Jackie

Given your temperature range and protected location I have a feeling a tea or China might well be larger than expected. Le Vesuve grows sideways at a great rate and mine, while not much more than 4 feet tall, are about 7 feet wide and these are not mature plants. Sophie's Perpetual in my garden, even though in afternoon shade, had such delicate petals that it was not a success. Old Blush is more upright but has an annoying tendency to mildew. I wonder if one of the red Chinas might be a good option. Not liking red I'm not an expert, but many people here grow and love them. They're not a true red but more toward the cerise side, which might fit in with your pink scheme.

Ingrid

This might give some idea of the eventual size of a very mature Le Vesuve, photographed in Northern California.

Jeri

I'm east of you in the Fens, although my garden is sheltered. As you want something for the back of the border, you might like 'Mutabilis'... although mine grows big after 5 years or so, it can be kept smaller.... it's multicolouration might be suitable for your purposes...

...Le Vesuve - I've got one coming along..but I don't expect much more than 3 foot from it... I wouldn't put it at the back of a border here...although I might be proved wrong....

... in a hot dry spot, full sun and poor soil, I'm growing a Tea called 'Mme Antoine Mari'... as it's drought tolerant... but again, this might not be big enough for you there...I have it in a frontal position...

..near this, same conditions but back against a wall...I have a China/Bourbon type called 'Gruss an Teplitz'... not a very nice name, it's cherry red in colour and seems to be doing well... I'm hoping mine grows to a decent size...it's supposed to do so...

..I wanted to recommend a Tea called 'Archiduc Joseph' but I think it's out of stock with Beales... maybe available elsewhere...but it is hardier than most and grows to a good size... might be worth seeking out..

..I think, for us, it's trial and error with these and we have to prepare for disappointments and discards...

..best of luck choosing... a nice gift to receive...

This post was edited by Marlorena on Tue, Jan 6, 15 at 14:14

I would like to add that, before you decide, take a look at the Hybrid Musks, one in particular called 'Felicia'.... I do think it would be more suitable for your position and it's a proven winner... it will grow wider but you can always prune... and a well grown 'Felicia' is a sight to be seen...

I can't say how big a Tea would get for you, they like summer heat, but your winter lows would probably not be a problem once the rose had a couple of years in the site...and if it made good growth in the summer. My Teas went through three weeks of temperatures in the teens three years ago and weren't bothered by it. Our winter temperatures tend to be in the thirties and forties a lot, though, not bringing many days of hard freezes. A heat sink would definitely be the place to try a Tea. The Teas seem to need lighter soil than the once-blooming European old roses: they can drown in a rainy winter in our heavy clay.
My plants of 'Old Blush' haven't gotten as big as my more thriving Teas. 'Old Blush' gets to about 1.50m x 1.50m here with no pruning, while 'Mme. Antoine Mari' and 'Mrs. B.R. Cant' are more in the neighborhood of 2m x 2m, and 'Archduke Joseph' is now about 4m up into the persimmon I'm forcing it to climb. I confirm that 'Old Blush' gets mildew. On the other hand it's a very tough rose, and mine currently has a few battered blooms on it, and when conditions are particularly favorable it can produce quite lovely flowers, instead of its usual mass of cheerful pink, which is also great in its own way.
Melissa

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful words. I really appreciate the depth of knowledge and willingness to share it on this forum.
It's amazingly difficult to find info on teas that's UK appropriate, I maybe need to look at the older old rose books. Possibly that ought to be a sign that I'm being overly ambitious!

Marlorena, I actually already had my eye on Felicia - I really like the Pemberton roses, and there's a dappled sun spot that I thought might do. You actually tipped me over into getting Ghislaine to anchor my orange bed on another thread. I already have Daybreak, and Francesca.

Melissa mentioned Mrs B.R. Cant - I looked it up, and it was actually bred here, and well pre climate change, so I guess it's got to be possible. Shame it's not in common commerce this side of the pond, what a lovely, lovely rose.

So, that's two votes for Old Blush getting mildew. H'mm.

Mottisfont's Le Vesuve is apparently 4-5ft but Mottisfont might well be the exception to many rules - I had a look at their list and I'm not game enough to try most of those. The only other garden publicly listed on HMF as having it in the UK is Jon-in-Wessex... and there goes Mottisfont again. However, I think it a given that if their Vesuve isn't bigger, it probably won't get bigger in the UK.

I wonder if I might perhaps get the selected rose - I'm still leaning towards Le Vesuve, and pot pet it for a few years until it's a bit bigger. If it's just one rose I could maybe see my way to moving it in and out of a greenhouse when it's really cold, because it's not that common. Or would it be better in the ground, winter-protected?

Where I am is central, slight elevation, 300m above sea level. Average winter temps here are 1-6.5 deg c, which is low thirties/forties I guess? We get snow, but not actual freezes very often; i.e. it snows, but it doesn't lie. Although, from what you all are saying, it's not necessarily the cold, but lack of summer heat that causes them to not thrive. H'mmm. However, DA, Beales and Trevor White all stock all of the above candidates, so it can't be that unfeasible.

Light soil I certainly have. Decisions, decisions!

I think it's worth trying these unusual roses here to see how we get on, if we can afford to do so... even if only one or two, at least you'll know you have something quite rare in your garden... and I think that makes it quite interesting..

On checking one of my rose books by the late Graham Thomas.. he has good things to say about these two Tea roses, both available from Beales. If you are interested to try one then you might like to look at them...

General Schablikine.... ''three big flushes of bloom, and seldom out of flower''...''deep coppery carmine pink''...''5 feet or so''..

Mme Jules Gravereaux...''one of the most satisfactory''..''mainly apricot''...''strong grower with good foliage''..

..go on, treat yourself...

I would be tempted to try General Schablikine or Mme. Jules Gravereaux. Le Vesuve's flowers are very fleeting and not very full, which is fine when the bush is very large but maybe not so much in your situation. Additionally, it has truly vicious thorns, small but lethal. When I fell into Le Vesuve it took quite a few weeks for some of the scars to heal completely.

Ingrid

I'm not normally much of a fan of multicoloured roses (mutablis excepted) but the shadings on the General Schablikine are beautiful. Again, not much in the way of english commentary readily available on this rose, but it is mentioned (via the wonders of google books) by Gertrude Jekyll, as being a good and garden worthy rose. I can't find the link now, but it was noted as growing to a considerable size in one of the walled garden squares in London, which, my area isn't the urban heat sink the way London is (but where is, honestly) but still gives me hope that it might form a solid shrub for me, with a little tlc, of course.

I think I might also try Gruss an Teplitz (Marlorena is right, that's an unusually unevocative name for a rose from that era!) and then for a third I am going to go for Deuil de Paul Fontaine and fingers crossed Beales doesn't sell out before the order gets there! Three new classes of rose for me so truly, an experiment.

I'm glad you've reached a decision.... the last named one I don't know at all, so I hope that grows well for you...I see it's a Moss rose... look forward to seeing some photos of these, or any others that you choose, over the course of time...

FWIW -- and given the difference in conditions, it might not be worth much -- but in MY garden, 'Le Vesuve' mildewed ALMOST as badly as did 'Old Blush.'

What does NOT ever mildew, but has much the same look as to bloom, is the rose in commerce as 'Alice Hamilton.'

Vintage imported it from Roseraie du Desert in France, and I am immensely pleased with it. I have a feeling that it can rival the proportions of 'Mutabilis,' (It's upwards of 5-ft., so far) and it has NO disease issues here. Moreover, it's a generous bloomer.

I love the shifting colors, and the fact that it's doing a good job of brightening a spot with NO afternoon sun. And it gives me the FEELING of 'Old Blush,' with no disease at all.

Jeri
Coastal Ventura Co., SoCal

Mutabilis gets my vote. If you don't have it, you must, because it is among a handful of the best large roses. My climate similar to yours , but more humid in the summer and consistently hot. Mutabilis blends anywhere because of its pastel shades. Flowers, from a distance, look like a bunch of butterflies. Blooms heavily spring and fall and lightly throughout the summer. Zero disease of any kind. Never have to spray it nor prune it, unless you insist. Will climb a small tree if that's what you want. (It's at its very best running through a tree.) Will take blazing sun or some shade.Not fussy about soil. And, like a prisoner in an interrogation center, requires no feeding to keep alive. Will withstand drought once established, but naturally prefers a good drink now and then. Can be kept smaller if that's what you want. Just a great all around rose! And best of all, unlike those other roses that rudely decide to undress by mid summer,keeps most of its clothes on even through August heat. I have 100 roses but if I had nothing but Mutabilis, Cramoisi S., Hume's Blush, Erfurt and Pax, I woudn't need any thing else -- well maybe Basye's purple.

So, looking at Jackie's photos in another thread, and after pottering around in the garden before work today, I finally realised why I hadn't quite managed to hit the 'order' button yet. It was because that border wasn't right. There was no... flow, I think is the right word. The roses that were there were pink, but they were kinda plunked in and honestly have never done that well, and before I was just thinking about filling the gap caused by taking the potted Eglantyne out.

After some intense head scratching, I worked out that the primary issue was Mme Isaac Pereire and Konigin von Danemark being in the wrong places. So, Konigin went to the back centre, where she can be 6ft if she wants to be, and flanked her with two Nelly Moser clematis that I bought cheap without a plan (are you sensing a theme here? I am, one where I'm an idiot who just goes ooooo pretty...) which will look good with her pretty leaves after she gets done blooming. To her left, Louise Odier stays where she is. To her right, Mme Isaac Pereire gets booted down along the border to where the dark pink looks better, and the pink honeysuckle can hide the ugly bare legs that she developed last year.
That leaves to the left mid border, a spot for the Ispahan in a pot that was part of the pot ghetto, as a mirror image of the one on the right end.
Then at the front left, Jacques Cartier, and right, Comte de Chambord, and that still leaves space in the centre for the General Schablikine to join the pink pot mafia to duke it out for who is going to be a permanent resident.
Which leaves me still with one space - a spot for a rose who will mirror image with Louise Odier. Any suggestions?

Incidentally, Alice Hamilton is beautiful, and import from Roseraie du Desert is MUCH more reasonable than I'd have thought it would be, but I think I need to have solid plans before I think of ordering from there... no more plunking things in inadequate pots and headscratching for a year before finally working out where to put them! I think that ought to be my New Years resolution... I was dithering about that too.

Judging by how vigorous General Schablikine is for my mom -granted in Southern California- I imagine it could be a slightly zone-bending tea. It is quite lovely and can take on red, purplish, and coppery hues in addition to different pink tones.

As for the other spot...there are so many lovely pinks to pick from. I assume you want a rebloomer to complete the mirror effect and probably also a double? Perhaps Felicia? It's not a true OGR, but it is lovely and would fit in I think.

Jay

Still dithering on the other pink, but I have plenty to plant to be going on with.
Speaking of which, I gather the general advice with tea and china roses is 'when in doubt, don't prune'. Especially when immature.
Does this also apply to newly planted bareroots? Standard advice here is to prune hard the first spring after planting to stimulate new growth from the base, not the tips. Should I do this with my tea & china bareroots too, or will they recoil in horror and sulk?

Update - I will try to do battle with the photo editor tomorrow, but for now, I ended up getting General Schablikine, Deuil de Paul Fontaine, and Gruss an Teplitz from Beales. However, I then won a giftcard from a draw, and swapped it with a colleague for cash, which ahem, I then spent on more roses, from Trevor White. Yes, I know, I have a problem! So, having dithered and dithered, I ended up getting a Vesuve after all, along with Mme Antoine Mari, Mme Pierre Oger, Mme Leonie Viennot and Felicite Parmentier. I hasten to add, these are not all in the same bed, and Leonie is in a pot till I decide on a place as befits her ambitions.
To my joy, it appears the bourbons, Louise Odier and Pierre Oger are busily growing on and are considerably happier with the sandy soil and sun than Ispahan and Konigen von Danemark were, and they having been moved, after sitting like sticks for three years, are putting on some actual growth.

Mme Mari, the General and Vesuve are in a row, slap bang in the middle of the bed, and are all looking completely happy, and have buds already. They are still low to the ground of course, as I planted them quite deep, knowing how sharp the drainage is there, but I'm generally thrilled with how they're going. I think the unseasonal early heat has been good for them.

Gruss went in the mid back of the left red bed, and is also beetling along nicely, with buds too.

Deuil de Paul Fontaine is leafing out, not far away, but comparatively slow to get going, as is Alfred de Dalmas - is this characteristic of moss roses?

Tea roses in the American South can stand 10F / -12C or maybe worse in winter. Years ago on this forum, jon_in_wessex opined that it was the lack of summer heat that caused winter hardiness problems in the UK for teas, chinas, Malmaison etc. So it seems likely that the warming summer climate makes those roses more of a viable proposition. I'd suggest that selection should be based on mildew resistance. Some teas are susceptible, some are resistant, and our Pacific coastal gardeners know which is which. (Our southern gardeners don't.)

I would suggest the often overlooked but elegantly reliable Papa Gontier - certainly one of the only teas which look that great in East Anglia. At my hort.college, it was always a bit of a given that teas in England are always best under glass (and they had a rather decent Devoniensis)...but an exception was made for PG which looked quite healthy (unlike every China it has been my misfortune to own - blackspot central)...and of course, PG went on to produce that other UK possible Lady Hillingdon.

I have to put in a good word for poor Gruss an Teplitz. It's a gorgeous rose even in my less than benign climate and the last to bloom in late autumn. The breeder Rudolf Geschwind was born in Teplitz and I don't think a name that means Greetings to Teplitz is any worse than Souvenir de Anyplace. Christopher Lloyd once wrote that it was named for a general Teplitz which is totally wrong.

Mariannese, I think it has to do with how German vs French sounds to many an English speaker's (and not only..) ears. For example any rose named Duft-something (Duft = Fragrance) wouldn't have a chance in commerce in an English speaking country I think. Can you imagine how 'Duftzauber 84' would sell if it hadn't been renamed to Royal William or Fragrant Charm? lol

Oh, I don't know about that!.... Fruhlingsduft (sp?) is a lovely rose, and I never had a problem with the name. A lot nicer than some of those cringe-making modern 'English' names - Rockin' this and Kissin' that...eeuwwggh! Mind you, a lot of people probably get confused by ANY non-English, or remotely cultured names; thus the continued popularity of such ugly populist names (and their associated ugly modern roses....)

I know, I know, I'm being controversial again; and probably unforgivably snobbish....

Bad Comtesse -}¬{

Sorry, OT too!

...some German names are quite nice and I would love to love Fruhlingsanfang, because of what it means, but I find it a struggle, to be honest.... Futtaker Schlingrose would be another I might have a problem with, to my ears... whatever it means, I simply don't know... I'm not even sure it's German....

...of the few Teas I have, I must say 'Mme. Antoine Mari' is doing remarkably well, and bids fair to become a decent rose in time, after a slowish start.... it's enjoying this sunny dry weather we are having, yet is planted in my worst conditions, dry, almost barren and rocky, full sun....with little amendment....yet it's romping away.....

...my few other young China's are doing really well... all have buds... except 'Le Vesuve' which despite getting the very best conditions, is one of my slowest to get going at this early stage.... however, for a young own root I must give it more time....

..not wanting to rub salt into anyone's wounds, but I could really do with some rain...it's been so dry..... but at least in our cases here, we know it's guaranteed....

Schlingrose means a rambling rose (I think). Futtaker, you need to take out the ending -er (denoting from or of a place). Futtak (Futtack, Futak) should be an old placename in pre-WWI Austria-Hungary (PS. nowdays Futog in Serbia according to HMF). There are also old references to a Futtaker or Futtacker tobacco variety from 'Hungary' which obviously was grown in the area. So 'Futog ramber' is the name.

Futog

..that's interesting Nik, thank you for this information.... I'm often intrigued as to how roses get their names.... and I think, once I know how it came about, they tend to sound a whole lot better...

Also "duft" is pronounced with an oo sound--not an unpleasant word for "fragrant."

Marlorena, I have to admit that ever since I learned (only yesterday--bizarre coincidence) that Futtaker Schlingrose exists, I've wanted it. Pretty much regardless of what it looks like or how it performs. Nik, your explanation, though helpful and enlightening, is frankly just the teeniest bit disappointing.

Mind you, I'm still hoping to grow Tipsy Imperial Concubine and even geographically inappropriate Cuisse de une Nymphe Emue for similar snicker-inducing reasons. I think I need a small area of my garden set aside as my red light district.

My inner 12-year-old is alive and well, apparently.

plectrudis, don't blame me, blame the limited naming imagination of Rudolf Geschwind.. It seems this, with notable exceptions, has been a historical trait of rose breeders. Most probably they have used all their imagination for breeding and have had not much left for naming. How about Geschwind's roses 'Erebus', 'Tartarus' and 'Terror'? Do they sound inviting and gardenworthy? Maybe ideal for cemetery roses? I think he missed 'Hades' though.

Yes, Plectrudis, I think my son would've enjoyed 'Futtaker Schlingrose' when he was about 12... I too was rather disappointed with the explanation - that town looks exceptionally boring! (If anyone reading this happens to live there, and loves it, I'm willing to reconsider... and apologise.) Not your fault, Nik, of course, as you say.

I quite like the sound of 'Tartarus'; I can't think who he was in mythology but could imagine a magnificent beast of a rose with such a name. Now you'll tell me it's a blush pink miniature! Off to look it up...

Comtesse :¬D

Tartarus, the mythological place not the rose

Tartarus

plectrudis....

...let us be thankful that it's Schling and not Schlongrose, as indeed then we might have a problem, at least where I come from....

..of course, this might have made it more popular...

Just keep it away from that aroused nymph's "thigh" please... Sigh...and this used to be such a nice, respectable forum. I don't know what's happened to it since I got involved. Oh well, I guess I'll just take Lady Hillingdon's (purported) advice, and lie back and think of England....

Comtesse :¬)

I snerked out loud, marlorena & comtesse! ;-)

Nik, a "Terror" rose definitely appeals, if for somewhat different reasons...

Ugh having sync issues with uploaded photos, so the photo editor bit will have to wait. Here are: 1. Lady H climbing in her temporary pot. 2. Lady H bush in the border. 3. Gruss an Teplitz in the border, I'm thinking that I should maybe have grown him on more in a pot befoe planting out. 4. Le Vesuve growing at adorably baffling right angles, she makes me giggle. 5. General Schablikine looking small in comparison. 6. Mme Antoine Mari looking pretty good. Please wxcuse the pots in the background, they're nerines developing some roots before they get planted out so the squirrels don't pull them up and eat them (blasted creatures, WHY must you have a yen for the most expensive bulbs in the garden!).

Argh. 1 and 2 as above. 3 and 4 here.

5 and 6. Sorry about the upside down-ness! Upside down is better than no pictures right?

Fduk I took the liberty to flip your photos. How you don't mind :-)

1) Lady H climbing in her temporary pot.

True_blue, I absolutely do not mind, thank you very much!

..Mme Antoine Mari in my garden is about the same, and doing really well, surprisingly.... several buds waiting to open... fine foliage too...plum coloured, I wonder if it stays that way...

...clg Lady Hillingdon, likewise,... I'm very pleased with its progress so far...

...I would caution about Gruss an Teplitz as I found that if you crowd it in too much, as I did, it got blackspot quite bad. I had to move it and is now in a more open and sunny position and is currently thriving.. so I wouldn't crowd that rose in too much...

...my Le Vesuve is own roots, so some way behind yours which looks like a grafted plant.... I have a feeling I might come to think this was a mistake and that there are many other roses more suited to my garden that I could have chosen.. however, it's staying one way or the other, but it might end up in my greenhouse...

...all looking good...

Yes, my Vesuve is grafted, which is probably why it's looking so happy. I am a little worried about Gruss an Teplitz - it looks fine atm, perfectly healthy, but the surrounding plants are little more vigorous than I'd like while it's still so small. I think it'll cope once it gets some height, but it's getting there. Think I might have to do some judicious pruning back and staking of the surrounding plants.

Quick q, for people who know more than I do about own roots. I've been offered a small Mutablis, own root, half gallon size. Is that what you'd call a 'band' sized rose? I guess it will need growing on before going out in the garden? Is there anything special I should do for it?

...I would just go ahead and plant that Mutabilis straight out in the garden, at this time of year... it will soon grow.... sounds very nice to be given one that size...

..I'm not sure how a half gallon compares, but band size roses are own roots grown in 3 x 6 inch deep plastic pots....I think they can have as much as a foot of top growth on some... we're not used to seeing those too much as we like our grafted roses as they are usually so much bigger already...

One of my co-workers grandfather is very into gardens, she... isn't (she likes cut flowers though, which is how she knows that I am into roses). He apparently was bemoaning (again) the fact that the younger generation is not as appreciative of plants as they should be and in an attempt to derail, she blurted out that I had old roses! Cue some text messages (deeply unexpected because we're colleagues, and don't generally talk outside work) and thus the offer of a baby mutablis - apparently half his neighbourhood has at least one courtesy of him. I'm potting up some persian lilac cuttings for him, and some yellow queen aquilegias, and I I gather he's going to try and root me an Arethusa and a Perle d'Or.

My baby Mutablis arrives next week, all being well! Fingers and toes all crossed.

In other news, I've been away for a few days and while I was away, General Schablikine produced it's first bloom, slightly battered due to the rain, but even prettier than I'd imagined. Will attempt to upload. I'm sad that I missed it unfurling, but it has more buds developing so I shall hopefully get to see it properly soon. Also, it is noticeably fragrant to my nose, after reading so much about the percentage of people who can't smell tea fragrances I was a little worried, because scent is quite important to me.

Ugh just had a long update/ coment eaten by the posting gremlins. Will try again with more info later.

Later, with added commentary.
Le Vesuve.

This rose (by tape measure, not by eye) is 4ft 9 by 4ft by 3 ft vertically. So far, no signs of mildew! I'm very happy with it size wise for a first year rose - there are supposedly much hardier roses in my garden that have done less with more, so as to speak.

This one has stayed a small hummock, but with one comical 3ft cane. According to "Tea Roses For Warm Gardens," this is it's habit when it's immature so I'm not too worried. It is paler than the others, almost chlorotic looking, and I wonder if it might want an iron/seaweed tonic dose.

Mme Anoine Mari.

I begin to understand the accolades this rose has; although a little lopsided, it's slowly, gracefully branching out to just under 3ft in all directions, all the while clothed in glossy dark foliage.

Mutablis

Best freebie EVER. It blooms and grows and blooms and grows, staying shapely and well foliated.

Gruss I haven't a new picture of. It's spotlessly healthy and about 4ft tall, but only 18 inches wide. very much looking forward to it becoming established.

Both the Ladies H, truck on serenely. They bloom and grow and bloom and grow, more or less continuously. The potted climbing version needs a bigger pot and a less lacksadaisical waterer, but carries on regardless. I do see the plaint about the dead blooms, but it's nothing like the mummified horror that is Alchymist so I can overlook it easily. Also the are both spotless, huzzah, a non sprayed yellow rose in England in September that is NOT imitating a Dalmatian.

Leonie Viennot is HUGE - 6ft of growth on every cane. However, it's shown some tendency towards mildew, BUT it's potted and immature. I really need to make a call on a permanent home, but the potential mildew is making me hesitate. Not that it actually is mildewed, just the leaves are crumply like it's GOING to mildew, but never quite gets powdery. It's a dilemma.

Latest garden addition (bit scruffy, I haven't finished planting!)

Based on how happy I've been with my experimental roses, I'm going to push the boat still further, and try some more teas, chinas and maybe a tea noisette or two. Blush Noisette is bidding fair to be one of the best roses in my garden in a quiet sort of way. Really charming. I'm hoping it's not an outlier!

The Perle D'Or I mentioned up thread will be ready this autumn, (although Arethusa is apparently not wanting to play) and I am contemplating Duchesse D'Aerstadt as replacement for the horrible Alchymist, which nothing I can do makes happy.

Mme Jules Gravereaux/ Celine Forrestier for the arch, Alexander Hill Gray, Anna Olivier, Clemetina Carbonieri, for the yellow /orange beds and last but not least, Homere and / or Hume's Blush/Odorata to replace Eglantyne.

Any thoughts? Guesses as to sizes? My baby Vesuve is already about as big as Beales thought it would top out at, so much for that estimate!

Update.

MAM is now solidly 4'6 and has retained her rounded shrub state, and I think she might break 5ft this summer.

Gen. S is mid spring flush right now, and is 4ft and a bit but not solid like MAM. It still looks like an immature rose to me.

Le Vesuve is slated for the chopping block - I cannot contain her, and when I prune she grows new canes at even weirder angles. She really needs to be free standing shrub or have a wall to climb on. Or at least not be in a bed with perennials that might need maintaining. I can see with time she might grow into a pyramidal shrub shape but I haven't space for a (minimum) 6 by 6 by 6 rose.

I am (I think) going to remove Louise Odier and Mme Pierre Ogier outright, as they cannot compete with the teas and frankly I like the teas better. Ispahan and Konigen can stay though, they make good clematis supports when they are done blooming.

Isabella Sprint was my first rose into bloom this year,and I am as charmed by it as I was last year. AHG and Crepuscule are currently looking good, hopefully they've grown out of mildew. Lamarque continues to break my year with how beautiful it is and it appears to have shrugged off the late colder temps. It really needs it's arch installing.

Lady H and Lady H cl. keep trucking on dependably.

D. Auerstadt is growing on rapidly, no blooms yet but definitely climbing so I can wait. Ugh, call off hold continue later!

Sounds good to me! Congratulations!

Home now, as a reward for reading my incoherent rose piffle, pictures! I wish I could express myself as eloquently as you Melissa.

Gen S.

More Gen. S. He's a glorious colour this spring.

Carrying on where I left off: Mme. Jules Gravereax did very little last year, but is now scrambling though a rhodedendron and should be blooming soon.

Cleemtina is budding up nicely, Perle D'Or is adorable as usual and growing strongly.

MAM

Carrying on down the border is Isabella Nabonnand, just a baby, but adorable. Oh the anticipation of those buds! her companion is dicentra Alba. I think they look good together.

My Miss Lowe's seeding is also small but blooming it's little socks off. I need to restrain that phox it's gotten a bit spready.

A few more. Light was going, but I couldn't resist the tulips, which have been amazing this year. I think the late chill has spread out the season. Lots of foliage issues on the roses though, sort of burned crispy tips and darker patches, and pretty bad black spot on those roses prone to it. I am very unhappy with Graham Thomas, Golden Celebration, and unexpectedly, Francesca right now. They look truly terrible.

Beautiful purples against the bright green foliage of Tuscany Superb.

Just one more for now - great fat Tipsy Imperial Concubine buds against a backdrop of my cutting tulip bed. I hope they open.