I think it's a big part of why online sales just keep growing. Good salespeople are so rare. It seems like there are two extremes-- those that completely ignore you, and seem irritated or clueless about questions; or those that hover and pester and push promotions and items you don't want. It's much more pleasant to do your own research and order, especially with free shipping!

I don't know if it's a regional thing, but going from CA to TX has been quite an experience. Seems on the west coast it was almost impossible to get a straight answer, and if you asked your salesperson to 'find out', you were looked at as if you had two heads. Most didn't feel the need to go out of their way, and i'm wondering if they feel asking for help makes them look stupid? Here(tx), nine times out of 10, a salesperson will take the initiative to get the info you need w/o a problem. In general, they're more helpful as well as curteous, youngsters, as well older sales people.

Having been in retail sales for 20+ years, I don't tolerate such behavior graciously.

Let's not blame the help for corporate and management decisions. I've worked at a store where they put us all in red vests so shoppers could spot us easily - and then told us to only engage visitors if approached by them first. As a rule retail pays the clerks nothing and trains them even less - especially the big chain stores. I've only worked at a few stores that had meetings where management would tell us what products were coming and so forth. And those meetings were at most once per week.

I find that these days you have to go informed because in general, there is such a lack of knowledge of products by salespeople regardless of whose fault.

", and if you asked your salesperson to 'find out', you were looked at as if you had two heads".

When our fridge died, I went to Sears and they had the exact model I wanted on sale but in SS, I wanted black. I asked the salesman to check if black could be included and he insisted it couldn't be done.

I went back a few days later hoping to get someone else and a saleslady helped me. She knew everything there was to know about all their fridges. In short, she called me back the next day that she had talked to a few higher ups and managed to get me the sale price. I picked up a $25. gift certificate to a home décor store and gave it to her when I returned to pay.

Unfortunately, this isn't the norm.

pattycakes, I live in CA but I also shop a lot in and around Austin as my folks live there part of the year. I'm their buyer when it comes to the house. My experience has been similar to yours. Salespeople in Central Texas help. They go out of their way to find out what they don't know, and they follow up with phone calls and/or email. Here in CA that happens, but it's not the norm. If they don't know, whatever, who cares, not their problem. They act more like decorations than salespeople. I've had some luck finding knowledgeable and helpful salespeople using Yelp, but it's not reliable.

Faron - I hear you and empathize. It must be frustrating. I'm loyal to locals who are knowledgeable and friendly and provide a turnkey service such as yours. I've also found many local shops will do their best to match prices on the web unless it's a "too good to be true" ad. But, those local decor shops and the appliance center I mentioned didn't have your service-minded attitude.

I think part of the problem is also that people change jobs so often, especially younger people. You can't learn details about the merchandise if you only work at a store for six months, then jump ship to somewhere that will pay you a few cents an hour more.

Donna

My local hardware store has new faces about every month or so. When I first moved here, the place was AWESOME. The manager was field experienced, her help was well trained by her, and everybody was helpful. Then the owner retired and turned it over to his kids. What a mess. The old guard is gone and the new guard is under 25, with virtually no field experience, no intuition, and very lacking in helpfulness.

I was there on Monday and the cashier failed to greet me and failed to say thank you for coming in. She was too busy gossiping with the other youthful help. They have no clue what it takes to earn a customer or keep one. Shameful!

I have written the retired owner (their dad). No response to date.

We also try to shop in stores like Faron's. Our local hardware store has been run by two brothers for many years. They know everything about what they sell, and remember a lot about what we've bought for our house from them! They even seem to know our level of expertise and direct us to things that will help us, not overwhelm us.

We bought our lawn mower and snow thrower from them, and we take them back to them for tune ups. I'm sure we could have paid a little less, but we are paying for their knowledge and expertise.

Their employees are long-term, so they must be paid a good wage. And benefits. I don't blame the service people on the floor of the big stores for not knowing their product. Blame corporate.

"I don't blame the service people on the floor of the big stores for not knowing their product. Blame corporate."

While training does seem to be poorly lacking, I think employees are plenty to blame for not taking more of an interest in their jobs.

These days it's too easy to be an informed shopper. I typically over-research a product before doing any physical shopping. I'd say customer service is hit or miss and depends on where you shop. Last year I found myself in the market for new living room furniture. I visited about half a dozen local furniture stores. Some I was able to browse by myself and others I was greeted at the door by a salesperson and then escorted around. I ultimately purchased furniture from a store where the salesperson gave me outstanding service. She went out of her way to get all my questions answered.

Faron, I would pay more for that kind of service, but I'm older and recognize the value there, whereas youngsters are just looking for the lowest purchase price.

I wanted to add to my previous comment, if it's easy for us to be an informed shopper, it's just as easy for salespeople to be as informed.

Exactly. Lack of interest and motivation.

While training does seem to be poorly lacking, I think employees are plenty to blame for not taking more of an interest in their jobs.

Ok, I agree it would be nice. But when are these $10 or $12 an hour employees supposed to learn about the products they sell? Certainly they can't be expected to do homework on their own time, and if corporate won't pay them to learn during paid in-services, corporate has made the decision that it costs them less in the ill-will of their customers than it costs to pay their employees. Those employees are not expected by corporate to know much about product. They are worker bees who provide muscle and order to the shelves. That's all.

People can typically learn a lot while doing their jobs. If they care to. Just the lack of basic customer service skills and poor efficiency in performing the work is remarkable. An attentive mind is a great teacher.

I often see sales people standing around a good bit of the time when they could be educating themselves on products.

I would expect, eg appliance sales, people to be making more than $10-$12 an hour since they are expected to know something in order to sell products, but don't know.

The thing I've found is that most are not really salespeople in the historical sense, they're order takers (stores like Faron's excluded - personally, I won't shop around at a brick & mortar store and then buy online, I think it's unfair -- either I'm shopping locally or I'm shopping online, not both).

When I still had my battery business I was constantly amazed at how people would call for my expertise and after lengthy conversation, and often multiple conversations and at times many hours of research would decide to then purchase the item on-line because they could save a couple bucks.

I purchase on-line too but I don't use a person for their knowledge and then buy on-line to save a few bucks.

Buying on price alone is not the best decision, especially with power equipment (Faron) and batteries as your local business will be there to answer further questions and are familiar with issues that may crop up. I had to start also insisting on a sales receipt because I started to have people trying to return items to my store that I never stocked or knew that they hadn't purchased at my business.

I agree that in many cases customer service is lacking or even non existent. In cases like that find someone else because if they can't be bothered to take time to make the sale they sure as heck won't spend anytime resolving issues after the purchase.

“Certainly they can't be expected to do homework on their
own time”

Why not? I and my
employees certainly spent personal hours learning new material and gaining
knowledge for ourselves and our pride in doing a good job. No one ever complained nor thought it
unusual. I know many, many people who
learn more about their jobs in this way.

If they can’t be expected to do homework on their own time,
they don’t care about their job or take pride in being the best.

I just want to chime in here re. Home Depot. I was shopping for a cabinet pull out. The one I wanted was only available from HD online, so I ordered it. It arrived broken - I was disappointed but not upset - hey, stuff happens! I called their customer service, and the young lady was so helpful, and apologetic that the item was broken! She asked if I wanted to ship it back or return to a store (I chose the store option), then she placed an order for a new one and gave me 10% off. The young lady at the store took it back, no questions asked, and gave me a refund. The new one arrived in less than a week, intact.

I usually shop at Lowe's b/c it's closer, but I definitely will do more business with HD!

Donna

I have tried to exclusively go to Home Depot for all home improvement needs after they set up a place for displaced animals to be reunited with owners and provided free vet care in Moore, Oklahoma after the Tornado. http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/national/share-kjrh-moore-residents-searching-for-pets-after-tornado-home-depot-a-central-location-for-rescued-animals1369235362100

I have had absolutely terrible customer service experiences lately from many, many stores I shop it. Even dealing w/ owners sometimes. Items not shipped on time, customer service people arguing w/ me on the phone, etc. People do not understand how to provide even basic customer service any more.

Annie, I'm with you on older salespeople. We recently purchased a new washer from Sears and I knew I wanted adjustable water levels and wash cycles under an hour. I was lucky to find a seasoned saleswoman who understood exactly what I was looking for and knew that a new model washer that hadn't even come out on the floor yet would fit the bill. I was planning to look at other stores that day and comparison shop, but she sold me on the spot.

When I was with the Bombay Co. we had product knowledge booklets every few months with new items and we were required to take phone in tests, if you failed you had to take it again...not a bad idea in my opinion.

I think it is unrealistic, in these economic times, to expect most minimum wage salespersons to do "homework" on their own time about the products. Certainly they should be trained on customer service and products by their employers during work hours, though.

I think a lot of the problem is low wages and lack of benefits, especially for those employers who keep their workers "part time." Unless you are bucking for management or plan to make retail a career, only very exceptional people will go the extra mile.

One of these exceptional people is my DD#1. She works as a frame shop assistant manager at Michael's. She is extremely skilled at the technical framing aspects of her job, very knowledgeable about all the crafts stuff in the store, and has built up a customer base through her skills and service that brings in a large portion of the store's revenue. She's been there for several years. And she makes $11 per hour.

Seeing the apathy and work ethic of many of these workers, lack of thought they put into their jobs, I can't imagine they will get ahead in anything they do.

Interestingly enough, both sales people I described in my OP were in their 50's - 60's.

"kids these days"

Clerks do not set the tone and the policy. I worked in retail for many years, believe me it always comes from the top. A typical structure is a number of underpaid, under-trained, effectively disposable employees overseen by one or more management employees who may be getting paid enough to make it worth their while. If a place is big enough there may often be intermediate level, salaried employees who earn frequently low end of the scale professional pay involved. Otherwise the chattel are overseen directly by a general manager who usually makes pretty good money - and is expected to act as though married to the store in return for this compensation, with 60 or more hour work weeks being a common complaint.

One branch location I worked at the out of town owners would when visiting meet with the general manager and pretty much ignore everyone else. I am sure many companies would happily cut labor out of the equation entirely if it were feasible.

We live in a time where the shining example from which others take their cues is Wal-Mart.

When I complained to my dad that the car salesman that (pretended to help) with my car purchase didn't know squat about the car I wanted, his reply was, they have 100s of cars on the lot. They can't be expected to know everything about all of them". What?? "So, dad, what percentage of your flight manual did you not need to know? Would your passengers be safe if you only knew 75% of what you needed to know to get them safely from LA to NYC?" Thought it a strange answer from a Army Major/decorated fighter pilot and commercial airline captain! I know, a pilot and a retail salesperson don't have the same level of responsibility, but still, if you're going to take on ANY job imo you should do that job to the best of your ability. I think my 81 year old dad has gotten soft in his old age <g> I've only had one job. I was in college and worked in the ins dept of a hospital. I took my job seriously and by golly when I told someone I would do something (or call them back) I darn well did it! Maybe only being in the workforce for 2 years and not in the last 37 years, I'm out of touch (but I really don't think so).

Violetwest...$11/hr and she's been there several years? :o

It kinda sounds like some think that if the pay for a job is low, good performance should not be expected. That minimal or poor performance is acceptable.

I also wonder, do workers today think they should not have to start at the bottom and work their way up?

It would be nice if companies would promote loyalty and award performance to encourage such behavior. Unfortunately, I think most don't.

Good performance is a given in exchange for salary, at whatever level that might be.

The Walmart comment(s) made me chuckle...and not in a good way!

Some time ago here, I mentioned a PBS/Frontline documentary about wm. That show, some print articles, & other media, have described the "wm phenomenon" as a "race to the bottom". Products, sales practices, quality-levels, product-knowledge, & prices...have all been hollowed-out so bad, that no one knows or remembers what "Quality" & "Service" IS anymore.

We don't compete with wm or Target, etc. There's no point.

Some people criticize our store, thinking we're "so high priced". It's hardly ever true. I could rattle-off a dozen things that we're below, at, or only slightly higher than wm. Sure...we have $2,500 Weber grills, Stihl power-equipment (NOT available online or ANYWHERE else...EXCEPT Independent stores), TORO mowers & snowblowers, & the Big-Green-Egg line....and on & on. Are they "discounted"? Hell no! Why?

We know a lot of info on the stuff we sell. Sure, people can leave the store with an expensive Weber grill "in a box". But we let them know right away that our assembly is NO CHARGE. If they're hauling the grill a ways, boxed is usually better in those cases. A Weber Genesis grill is $50 cheaper at a big-box. $699 vs $749 at Independents like ours. WHY?! Our type of independent retailer gets the Genesis "Special-Edition". This means the main grates, & burner-cover bars are ALL STAINLESS. At hd, etc., they're the much cheaper porcelain-coated cast-iron. Service-life is typically about 1/3 or less of the all S/S. You could buy the hd Genesis, but you'd spend $150 making it EXACTLY like ours doing it..........

A STIHL product doesn't leave the store UNLESS it's been gassed, oiled, adjusted, fired-up, and RAN with the customer right there. STIHL stuff found online IS NOT STIHL. They don't do business with online retailers! It's sad, but some people get caught in the counterfeit product trap. They expect us to match prices. Sorry Buckwheat! Some "authentic" products are amazingly similar...ON THE OUTSIDE.

"But I saved so much at wm or online"!!!!!!

Suuuuuuuuurrrrre you did pal! ;-)

Faron

There was a home show in town last week. DH and I decided to stop in and see what they had on exhibit. We stopped at one exhibit with home siding. When we asked what their siding was made of, the person there shrugged and said she didn't know, but it was really good stuff and here's a brochure. The other person working with her didn't know anymore than she did. I would say there was a definite failure in training in this case, as well as seemingly little-to-no interest in the job on the part of the exhibitors.

When we were looking at appliances I went to Sears. Asked about certain features. The salesman (older) told me to look online.....

Why did I bother?

The Sears applicance guy told me that if I could wait for a few days to buy, they were having the friends and family sale. Sure, great, thanks. Then they jacked up the price and it was still higher, after the f&f "discount", than I would have paid my first visit. I said I was ready to buy this Thursday but you suggested I wait for the sale and now it costs more. He said that's how retail works. Really? Sears lost that transaction plus any possibility of a future purchase.

It all comes down to the benjamins. The stores want the sales but don't want to invest in product training because the sales staff might jump ship when times are slow and then the whole process starts again.

I've had both high paying corporate jobs and low level retail jobs. In no way should how much money you're making determine whether you do your job well or not. Whatever it takes, including unpaid study on your own time. Sorry, no excuses.

I'm baffled as to why anyone should work for free. If an employer doesn't want to pay to train its employees, the fault is squarely on the employer IMO.

I do think there is an unfortunate spiral downward here where consumers want the best price so they buy online or at discounters with poor service and then stores are loath to invest the money training employees.

I, too, have been exasperated by the lack of customer service. I once asked an employee stocking the shelves at Walmart where I could find sun dried tomatoes, and he literally raised both arms in the air to convey, "I don't know". No offer to find someone else. OTOH, I have a BIL who has cobbled together three jobs (one at Sears) to replace his former full time job, and works 7 days a week. I'm not sure where he would find time to study outside work hours.

What you call "working for free", is exactly how I got to my high paying corporate job. Doing a bad job is not the way to get a better job.

edit: ok, deeinohio, your BIL definitely has a real excuse. But I'd bet he's doing whatever he can to learn more when he is at work.

Many people in low-paying, menial jobs are undereducated, in school, working more than one job, single parents, caring for an ill loved one, and I would imagine on occasion, all of the above and then some. To encounter someone who isn't performing their job up to my standard is annoying - I completely understand that. But I don't know their personal situation - why they're working where they are, or what situation life has handed them, and I try not to be too critical. It's not always easy, but I do think that trying not to pass judgment on them (and not to instantly equate their lack of knowledge or enthusiasm with stupidity or laziness) is the right thing to do. Perhaps they simply don't have the time or the energy to do any more than they are doing. I mean, really - maybe they are givin' it all they've got. I know I have had to try to work on days when I felt my life was falling apart, and there aren't even words to describe how difficult that is.

There aren't excuses. But maybe there are reasons.

I wonder how many of the commenters think these are well paying sales jobs or if the salesperson is making minimum wage. In my town to keep good employees the fast food places pay more than those sales jobs (there are exceptions). I realize in other towns a job that pays a dollar or two more than minimum might be a quality job. But remember times changed and much of that has to do with us. Just how do we think those bargain prices are being paid

if you are talking about Sears, you really mean Kmart and just what would you expect the Kmart stock person to know. My last visit to Sears only one cash register was open on the top floor. The unhappy sales guy was not clocked in or getting paid. There is a reason Sears is in trouble and that rot started at the top

"Many people in low-paying, menial jobs are undereducated, in school, working more than one job, single parents, caring for an ill loved one, and I would imagine on occasion, all of the above and then some. "

I would say that is also true for people in jobs that are not low-paying or menial.

I think people can tell the difference when someone is hard working and takes an interest in their job (or are struggling in some way or having a bad day) or when they just don't seem to have much of a work ethic, are apathetic, lazy, not interested or could not care less. That's what we are talking about. Being observant doesn't equate to being heartless and judgmental, or to being unduly critical of the poor little people of the world.

It's not necessarily an instant assessment either. We run into this sort of thing constantly, often interacting with the same employees who could . not . care . less about wasting people's time, patience and energy, over and again. The problem is widespread - which is why so many people are complaining.

I think people can tell the difference when someone is hard working and takes an interest in their job (or are struggling in some way or having a bad day) or when they just don't seem to have much of a work ethic, are apathetic, lazy, not interested or could not care less.

And I don't think people can tell the difference. I don't know the cashier at Walmart, and I'm not going to pretend I do.

Just my opinion.

hhireno, that's illegal in California.

I've been in a store "known for their recliners" (in CA) and had decent service -- they really knew their products. Of course, with only one line, you would expect that. I've been in some places that do such a high volume or depend on moving inventory where the service was non existent. Yet fortunately there is still a full service store alive that offers price points from moderate to mid-high (e.g. Hickory White) and sales staff/accredited designers that know which catalog to pull when you describe a style you are looking for. I think we all should help them stay alive.

" I don't know the cashier at Walmart, and I'm not going to pretend I do."

Well then, don't.

Geez...

I wonder Faron, when I was in high school (70's) there was a store on Main in Fargo that sounds like the store where you work. The owner was our neighbor. No one under 50 shopped there then, can't imagine it is still open. The owner died years ago and his kids --well no way they took over. ANY WHOOO all my experience working retail is in this Northern State. I began at a clothing store in downtown and moved with it out to THE GREAT MALL. People it is a CRAP SHOOT trying to guess what a customer wants. If we hover we are annoying, if we don't STOP the major re-stocking/straightening of a wall of shirts to take another customer by the hand and point to the hanging underwear we are rude and unhelpful. How annoying it must be for sales people to have customers who have done their research on line, want to quiz the local shop; dig, hint, push around for even CHEAPER price (just supporting local commerce) taking up the sales persons time only to turn tail and make their purchase on line. The days of everyone assuming the salesperson knows more than a customer ever could are gone. Don't all of you have a smart phone at the ready to challenge anything a sales persons says? We live in a self service world, catch up!!

I'm going to guess that many commenting on this topic are past 30....or 40. It's a different world now, fellow fogies :). I feel fortunate that I work with college kids, and have twentysomething offspring because I get a front row seat to see how very different their perspective is. To start, EVERYTHING is online, and online is literally at their fingertips. This isn't just millenials of course, but it certainly permeates the retail world. Used to be one really did depend on the salesman/woman to provide important information about whatever product we were shopping for. Just not the case any more--anything you want to know is usually available online, so like it or not the expectation is that the shopper already has done some research.

And shopping online is here to stay. Again, like it or not-and Faron is eloquent about the service he provides as an independent vendor-many/most people shop based on price. Lower cost, free shipping and delivery to your own front door for many folks are always going to trump service. Corollary is what Faron also mentioned-people who use bricks n mortar shopping just to enhance what they already plan to buy online. Think sales people don't deal with that every.single.day? They do and it certainly colors how they feel about customer service.

And last but not least, auntjen is IMO entirely correct. That last mile interface-the sales staff on the showroom or big box store floor-is almost certainly not making much more than minimum wage in most cases. It's awfully easy to sit at home on a computer and opine about how much better and more thoroughly you would be providing service....especially those who maybe haven't worked in a store for awhile, if ever. It's a tough way to make a living and many struggle to do so on the wages that stores pay.