As well as a singularly cynical and craven outlook on life.

Oh, please! I knew I'd be flamed for saying that! FACT IS, nothing in this situation is *rational*. It's all based on *emotion*, so why not add a little MORE drama to the plot?

Poor taste, especially if the only real reason is owner wife's death due to heart attack as we all were told.

As well as a singularly cynical and craven outlook on life.

Cynicism is an attitude or state of mind characterized by a general distrust of others' motives, or believing that people are generally selfish and dishonest.

Craven contemptibly lacking in courage; cowardly

It seems to me that cynicism is all over this thread, only most people have directed theirs towards the buyer. I also submit that saying it alone disproves craven. However, it was a rather spectacular use of satire. I will save whether tasteful or not for a different discussion.

Obviously many here were not viewers of The Twilight Zone in the early 1960s. lol

SaltiDawg-

Ok, I'll bite...

What we were all *told* has biased this little drama. However, it's a good illustration of how legalities will fail against crowd sentiment. Some reading here may not be familiar with "Townies vs. City Folks' -- or with Vermonters.

We are purchasing a lot and anticipate starting to build next month. Just received an email from the sellers. The husband has had some severe cardiac problems and is going to have yet another surgery, after two failed surgeries. We are scheduled to close in two weeks, but they are going into the title company and signing all the papers they need to sign tomorrow, as he won't be able to do so anytime in the next two weeks. They understand that we won't be closing for two more weeks and are fine with that. If things should take a turn for the worse and her husband should die before we actually bring the funds, sign the papers, and close the deal (which I certainly hope not), I wonder if that would affect our deal? I don't think the wife would want to hold onto the property, as they currently have a lovely home about an hour-and-a-half away from here and plan to go ahead and sign the papers tomorrow---but you never know. What if she wanted to cancel the sale and retain ownership of the property? I guess that would test my willingness to follow through with the compassion I spoke of earlier. I don't think this will become an issue, but I thought it was interesting to be the buyer in a similar position and examine what I would do. I'll certainly report back if we end up with a request to back out of the sale before closing in two weeks. By the way, I'm not asking for any input on what we should do, as this is a hypothetical situation and I certainly don't expect it to occur. If it does though, I will certainly hear her out regarding any requests she may have.

That is a sad situation, sail_away, but it is very positive sign that they are looking ahead and getting the papers signed early, rather than trying to delay the signing later for medical reasons.

If everything (bank, legal a etc) is primed & ready to go already... Why not just offer to reschedule closing earlier & get it over and done with?

If it were me I'd rather pay 2wks extra interest on bank loan than to loose a fortnight's sleep over the uncertainty.

Could be a win-win for both parties!

I discussed this with DH, as I also think having it settled would be worth the extra 2 weeks' payment on construction loan. OTOH, it seems pretty obvious they intend to follow through with the sale so I'm not sure that is necessary. I did discuss the outside possibility of her wanting to keep the land if her husband should die. DH also thought that was unlikely, but, of course, not impossible. From the beginning, they have seemed eager to sell to us. I grew up in the neighborhood where the lot is and they seemed pleased that I was so fond of the area and excited about returning. I'm happy to report that DH agreed that if she had a compelling reason to want to keep the property we should entertain the possibility of letting the property return to her--so we're on the same page. However, we have an architect and builder heavily invested as well and we would certainly need to pay for their time to this point. We have a signed agreement with the builder, so that also feels like an obligation. I guess, bottom line, I'm somewhat reluctant to push the sale through at this point, given the sellers' situation. I guess I don't have the "killer instinct" to look after myself first and not consider the other guy. I feel fairly confident that they want to see this sale go through, although I don't know for sure and that does add a little uncertainty. They've signed the papers to sell the house---all we need to do is sign and bring in the money and it's ours. I'm not sure that she would have any legal basis for unilaterally canceling the transaction at that point, so it would just come down to her possibly presenting a compelling reason that we would feel we should hand the property back to her, despite the mental, emotional, and monetary investment we have in the property. If it comes to that, DH and I are willing to listen to what she has to say.

What I did mention to DH is that I would hate to allow her to cancel the deal and then six months later see her put it on the market again. I would see if we could put in the stipulation that if she decides to sell the property within the next 18 months she would have to give us first right of refusal to purchase at the current agreed upon cost. She might realize that she made an emotional decision at the time and change her mind at a later point and I don't think we're the ones who should pay for her impulsive decision.

Anyway, nothing has been said about not going ahead as planned, so I think we'll just proceed to closing as scheduled and assume that everything will go as agreed. (I also think I'll go back through this post and read some of the legal opinions offered here. While I didn't necessarily agree with some of the posters, inasmuch as I don't think we should consider ONLY the legal standing of each party without also trying to understand the changed circumstances, I would like to get an idea where we might stand legally if the husband should die. I'm wondering if there would be any delays to the sale, since he had signed all the papers before his death.)

Hi, it's me again. I just wanted to add that I just reread this entire post and have some thoughts. While I was not among those who villified the poor buyers, I did feel pretty strongly that they should seriously consider the seller's request that the sale not go through. I felt that, if everything was as originally presented, I would probably cancel the purchase if I was the buyer.

Now that I am in a similar situation, I have more empathy for the buyer. When purchasing a home (or, in my case, property on which to build), it is an emotional as well as legal and monetary decision. We have invested a lot of time and effort in finding this property, making inquiries to be sure that it was buildable within our budget, and planning the house we want built. We are scheduled for excavation to start next month. To start over at square 1 would be extremely daunting and disappointing. When I responded to this thread initially, I did consider how both sides must be feeling, but until now I don't think I fully realized the enormity of the decision for all parties. I am still glad, given the story as presented, that the man got to keep his home, but I hope that the buyers made their decision feeling that they were making the right decision and not because they felt pressured, with no other alternative but to agree to cancel the purchase.

I mentioned to DH my concerns about possibly ending up in probate should the husband's upcoming surgery not be successful. He wasn't too concerned but did call the title company, who said that the property is in a trust that, typically, would mean it would immediately transfer to the spouse in case of death. The person from the title company said they would probably need her signature on another sale contract, but that was all. I'm not totally reassured, since they are assuming the trust is set up in that manner. Also, I don't think the wife would be too concerned about getting another sale contract signed at a time like that. But DH and title company are sure everything will be okay, so we're going forward as planned---closing in two weeks.

Aside from the contract concerns, I do hope that her husband's surgery is successful this time and that he has no adverse effects. They seem like a very nice couple, and I would hate to see her go through that loss.

OK boys and girls, here the final chapter.

The seller requested invoices for everything they spent planning to purchase the house and he wrote a check for that amount plus $2,500 for their trouble.

It's done.

Sounds like a win / win for both.

@Sail_away - Property in a living trust will not need another signature, although it is probably good to get one. The new trustee must abide by the wishes of the deceased. Although, not accurate, you can think of it as the sale was put into the will.

bry911, Thanks for the information. Legally, it seems to me that the fact that they both signed the finals papers indicates they have contracted to turn this property over to us. Under the terms of the agreement, we have two weeks to go to closing, sign papers, and turn over the funds. It seems like a done deal at this time. Nevertheless, if she suddenly had some objections to continuing with the transaction, I would have more than the legalities to think about!

The wife has been the one who handled most of the negotiations and sale agreements, so I don't think she will necessarily object to continuing on with the sale. The fact that they came in two weeks early to sign indicates to me that they don't want to risk being unable to do so during his recuperation from surgery. I think the chance of anyone backing out at this point is very, very low. Nevertheless, this post did come back to mind and I have thought seriously about whether I would be willing to give up the property, when we are so far into planning for building this house, if she asked us to do so. I believe I would, but it would be with great regret---and I'd have to be convinced it was the right thing to do.

Thanks for the update Christopher_H. $2500 seems puny compensation for their trouble to me. We got that much compensation when a landlord that had sold the house found out we needed to be out of the rental in 10 days rather than the 45 days he had told us. Since we needed to find and move to a temporary place, then transfer to a more permanent one later, he also paid for one round of fees to connect all of the utilities and services. The total came to about $4200.

gyr_falcon-

I don't think you can compare your inconvenience to the situation presented by the OP. The would-be buyer did not have his living situation affected in such a material manner as yours. I thought the seller offered a fare recompense to settle this difficult situation.

IMO the seller should have offered compensation on day one, in return for the favor to get out of the contract. Legally he was in the wrong. If it was as posted early on, that he believed he should pay nothing for backing out, it was less a request be let off the hook than a demand--for something he had no legal right to demand.

Well, it seems to have worked out aside from whatever legalities any of us believe should apply. I prefer not to speculate further being so removed from the situation.

gyr-falcon

Like I said, it's done. We can play woulda coulda shoulda all day long, but both parties are satisfied. And that's all that matters.

I hope he would be buyers find a house that is a good fit for them as a result. And I think the settlement seems fair - the buyers got EVERYTHING they spent + $2500 - so in gyr-falcon's case / example - that would have been $6700 - his true expenses of $4200 PLUS an additional $2500

I agree. The buyers are accommodating the seller's request and should not suffer a financial loss for doing so. They are already out considerable time and effort invested in this purchase. I have no idea what the motives of the buyer were in agreeing to terminate the agreement, nor do I know whether the buyer demanded they release him from the transaction or politely requested they consider releasing him. Only the parties to the conversation actually know. I am glad that they were able to come to an agreement and I'm happy for the seller who is going through an especially tough time.

As someone who is going to closing in about a week-and-a-half, I can certainly imagine the buyer's disappointment and the frustration of having to start looking again, and I think they should be applauded for deciding to allow the seller to retain ownership. Hopefully, they will find another property that makes them just as happy.

If I were the buyer, I'd reconsider trying to insinuate myself into this or any other of these insular Vermont communities.

I suppose the buyers were not butt heads after all...

Highly possible, nc.

I see no evidence of the 'seller' ever expecting that the 'buyers' should be out of pocket. And it seems to me that a man so willing to go along with his wife would be the sort of man who would have wanted to make the 'buyers' whole, from the start. Also, I very much doubt that his neighbours would have been 'on his side' to such a degree (or to any degree, really) if he was anything other than a really nice chap.

So, all in all, maybe the world has a few less butt-heads than previously thought.

(Apart from us Butt-Heads of course. Ha ha.)

I was going to start a new thread for this, but felt it didn't really warrant a whole thread of its own. Just wanted to report that we had our closing on our lot yesterday. (Sellers had already signed earlier.) Funds are to be released to sellers on Friday, at which point it will officially be our property. Guess my concerns that the husband's poor health might interfere with the sale were unwarranted. Happy to say we can finally move forward with construction and with no angst about possibly needing to relinquish our claim on the property if the owner(s) had requested we do so.

As I said before, this little bump in the road certainly made me understand both the seller and buyer's positions in the OP and empathize with both. Glad it worked out for everyone in the end.

sail_away -- Thanks for spreading some 'oil upon troubled waters'! Glad your closing went smoothly.

Chisue, Thanks.

So glad yours went through fine. How is the seller doing?

Cpartist, Thanks---so are we! We have texted and emailed with some information they wanted and also asked about him, but no answer so far. It's just a week-and-a-half since his surgery, so he is probably (hopefully) still just recovering. We'll try to make contact again this weekend. One remaining detail is that they have a dog buried on our property that they would like to remove and take to their current home. However, due to the husband's health issues they haven't gotten it taken care of prior to closing. DH is going to offer to dig it up for them, if they will provide a box or other container and someone to identify where on the lot he is buried and take the dog to the sellers. (They are located a couple hours away from here.) I am hoping that the fact we haven't heard from them means that this last surgery was successful, but don't know for sure.

I am amazed there isnt some sort of death clause in the contract. Its pretty standard in my area of NY. OP, where is this house?

Linda if you read through the whole thread you would see the issue was resolved

linda117117,

Vermont.

You are nice buyers, but...I'd ignore the dog remains issue unless the sellers bring it up again. If they do, leave it to them to arrange it.

Chisue, Thanks for the input. We did keep in contact, with several offers to help her dig up the dog's remains. She asked if the excavator could keep an eye out for them and just "put them aside" for her. We told her we were sorry, but, no, we couldn't really do that once excavation and building starts. We repeated our offer to dig up the dog, if she or someone she designated would be there. She hasn't replied, and the time allowed by our contract for them to access the property has passed. So I guess they have decided to let it go. Her last communication did mention how much they appreciated working with us on this transaction, so no hard feelings. Would have liked to accommodate them, but feel we went out of our way to work things out and it just didn't work at their end.

sail_away-

You should have a clean conscience on this. You have been more than accommodating on a somewhat dubious request...

Kudzu, Thanks. I do wish we could have worked something out to take care of their request, but I don't feel guilty that it didn't work out---entirely their decision in the end, as they were given numerous options. I wonder if the stress of her husband's illness led to some of the unusual requests and delays during the buying process. One of the delays was that we needed to re-submit a contract to purchase because she wanted the stipulation that they could remove the dog's remains up to 10 days after the sale was final. We also agreed to closing about 8 weeks after our second contract was signed by all parties. It took about a week for each contract, as they live out of town and took a while to sign and return the contracts. So I figure that amounts to about 2-1/2 months they had to consider getting the dog's remains---not to mention the time it was on the market before we made an offer.

And in response to your comment about the ''dubious request,'' our builder would agree with you, as he advised that we take that out of the contract. However, we knew it wouldn't really affect our plans, so why say no when we could have accommodated it without any disruption of our plans. The sellers were willing to negotiate with us on the price, and we feel we got a good deal, so we were in a generous mood, too.

Now we're looking to the future---hopefully break ground next month. Excited and nervous at the same time.

I wonder...could you just dig up some dirt on the property, box it up in a pretty box and send with a note saying this was the ground in which the dog was buried? It is nice of you to continue to communicate and try to accommodate and it seems like you have already done your duty, but perhaps that little gesture might give the prior owners some peace.

Hmm, since I don't know whether it would bring them peace, I'm not inclined to do so. The excavation has been delayed until next month, so if she should contact us again and want to come dig up the remains or have my DH do so, we would be okay with that. But we're not going to contact her or make any offers at this point because once we have our permits we want to get started without delay. I think, at this point, it isn't that important to them, as we've offered multiple options and they have had months before and after the completed sale to get the dog's remains. We'll consider any future requests, as long as they don't disrupt the building process. Once excavation starts it will be too late.

sail_away-

You're right...if I was selling and so concerned about my doggie's remains, they would have been removed from the ground a long time ago. There is a limit to how much you can be expected to do to entertain the wishes of these people and I think you're there. The next time I sell my house, I'll sell it to you since it is always good to do business with someone who is nice, reasonable, and considerate :-)

Thanks, I'll keep the offer to sell your house to us in mind, but hopefully this will be our last move. If not, you'll hear from me. : )

I don't want to give the impression that the sellers have been difficult, because they have seemed quite reasonable, as well. Just see no reason to do more than what we've done at this point, and I don't think they would expect us to, either.

Plus, at this point they might have decided it isn't practical and they've moved on and 'grieved' over the loss of their dog's remains. If you keep bringing it up and giving them opportunities then it might be opening the wounds again and they might feel guilt that they should try to get the bones even though it's more effort than it's worth.

Time for everyone to move on.

Greg,

Ironically, we just had an email from her stating that she will be coming up to get the dog's remains this afternoon! She asked if we would be able to meet her at the lot, which we will try to accommodate. She also said that, if the weather deteriorates, she won't come. So who knows? Not sure whether she realizes her 10-day window has passed, but we really don't care since excavation hasn't started yet. However, if we had been able to keep the original schedule, it would have been too late.

It's done! The dog's remains have been returned to the sellers and, in return, she showed us the approximate location of some of the boundary pins/markers. We probably will dig around and see if we can find them before the survey. Another positive note is she reports that her husband is recovering well. (Not to imply that it was a case of quid pro quo. It was just our first opportunity to be at the lot with one of the owners present, so we took advantage of the opportunity to see if she could help us locate the pins.)

Glad it turned out well and it's over. Sounds like a win-win. I was afraid they were going to come, dig all around, and wouldn't be able to find anything.

Did you purchase a lot without a survey being performed?

Yes, we did buy without an official suvey. However, we have researched documents at the county, gotten the legal description, viewed the maps available through the county and are very confident about the boundaries. In addition, DH has done some surveying in the past and had the equipment to survey the property himself---as he did with our current home when we bought the lot to build. We will still have an official survey done, as well, before beginning construction.