"Is your property staked with No Trespassing signs? You need those to have some legal grounds for complaining to the police.

Now THAT'S funny. Otherwise everywhere is public domain?"

Just for reference... in most, if not all States, unless you have "No Trespassing" signs posted, the path from the curb to your front door (and/or vice/versa) is considered a public access and egress.

This is one of the reasons why there are building codes requiring porch/stoop handrail and step height/depth standards.

If, though, you put up 'No Trespassing' signs, you may not get packages delivered to your door. So, it's a trade-off. On a practical note, in most (especially rural) instances people are long gone before authorities can get to the property. Perhaps a security company can help, but then there's the cost.

Often the best option is to install curtains, lights on a timer to mimic daily use, frequent visits, and car in the driveway that gets moved around. In any case, most of the time, it's people who are just curious.

I never realized "No Trespassing" signs were needed on your own property..thanks for the info....

Yes, that is true you must have No Trespassing signs on each corner of your property to be able to do anything about it. We live in the country and know. Yes an empty home invites some problems. Have a light on a timer, hang a clothes line and put some clothes on it, Hang some things on the porch so it looks lived in. That will help. Been there and done that with the trail camera too.

Sue

Thank you all. I do feel better. Satine, I wasn't sure it was racially motivated. But it's just one of those things that ran through my mind when I first discovered it. I suddenly had a flash of all those outraged and disgusted and smug looks weve gotten. People up there know who owns the house. My sister assures me her phone has been ringing off the hook with the gossip that a BLACK man and A WHITE woman are living TOGETHER in the house that the nice young couple used to live in. They dont know when they call her of course, that they are talking about her sister. Today we went and set up the rest of our surveillance cameras, put up a no trespassing sign and left our German Shepard and one of our Pit Bulls up there together so they won't be lonely. Even if they know the house still isn't occupied, they should at least realize were onto them right? I would feel better if these were kids, but the men on the camera were at least late twenties early thirties. Old enough to know better. But after a full days rest and the further security steps we've taken so far, I do feel like we could be happy up there. Maybe we can change a few minds or hearts. God bless!

Especially in the country hunters will enter property if there are no posted and no trespassing signs. I would definitely put up both Posted stay out, and no trespassing signs.

I don't understand you left the dogs? But you'll check on them, feed them, etc?

I have heard that pit bulls should not be left alone with other dogs. Of course a lot of them do well in multi dog families, it is just the 'alone' part.

I don't know that I'd leave dogs alone anyway, (unless they were indoors while I was away, and they were not alone with each other), something might happen. Not only might a critter or person harm the dogs, but right now dogs are fetching a pretty penny on places like Craigslist as Christmas gifts (not a good Christmas gift btw imho).

rob333

Of course I will. Sheesh. They are my BABIES!!!!!! We go out there daily anyway. At least one of us does anyway. Besides, I only want them up there for a few days in case the trespassers come back. A side note: they are LOVING the acreage, they may pout a little when it's time to come back to our old house.

Oh good. "left" was confusing

I have lived in rural America my whole life, and nothing you have said makes me think there is anything racially motivated about the trespassers. Just a few good ole boys looking for a deserted property on which to joy-ride their 4 wheeler. When they realize someone has them on camera and is soon going to be moving in, they'll move on to find another place. Don't look for racial trouble where there isn't any.

Lucille

Pit Bulls do fine alone with other dogs. Mine do anyway. I have 4 pit bulls, a German Shepherd and a pit bull/Great Dane mix. I leave alone all the time. I work 12 hour nights shifts and my boyfriend is a truck driver. He is home every night, but the dogs are alone together all the time. I have 2 pitties in the house at all times. And the other 4 dogs seem to prefer the outdoors. So unless they bark to come in,which is almost never....they stay out there together. I never worry about what would happen between the dogs. In fact,Sammy,one of my pitties was taken by a couple of teenagers 5 years ago, and they used him for fighting. When we got him back after a long difficult process going through the authorities and the incompetent baboons at the local shelter, he came home and was so happy to be home,and everyone was warning me that he was going to attack our other dogs and wanna fight,etc etc blah blah blah. I never had a problem,never. But all dogs are different individuals and should be treated accordingly. I think that if they are with each other, they are less anxious for me to come home. That's my experience anyway....

Im glad you are feeling a little better today. I know there are bigoted people everywhere but I hope that there are also people who will be welcoming to you and your so. Have a wonderful holiday and look forward to the time you get to move into your new home.

Just read the responses about the dogs. My daughter has two pitbulls and they are the sweetest most gentle dogs. I just love them. Just had two add my two cents worth.

littlebug

I was not looking for racial trouble. That was simply a possibility that ran through mind in a moment of deep distress. I do tend to think the worst at first so that I might prepare for it. The only reason it ran through my mind was because of some of the ridiculous treatment we have received. But now upon calmer reflection I agree that they probably did not mean us harm personally, but they still have no business on other people's land. To me, trespassing is not harmless fun, whether or not they mean harm. Maybe because I grew up in a neighborhood where property lines were defined with fences and the lots are small enough to see all your property at once. Rural life is certainly new to me, but I can't imagine that many people purchase their land with the intention of allowing strangers to gallavant around on it without a worry in the world. And I would imagine that many people would be as unnerved and upset as I was, and still am, though I do feel reassured by the kind people here.

How are your dogs restrained on your property? Just curious.

Yes, of course they have no business on your land. I experienced this myself when we owned a remote acreage (130 acres of timber, creeks, ponds, and pastures) and I was equally as distressed as you to find trespassers. Obviously I did not spend my money to purchase the land and pay property taxes on it so that some yay-hoos would have a place to ride their 4-wheelers!

"Hey, nobody is ever around here - this looks like a good place to ride! Nobody's going to chase us off!" That's the good ole boy mentality. You are fully within your rights to discourage them by any legal means from being on YOUR property.

In my state, as someone said above, you must post no trespassing signs to have a strong legal position. Seems ridiculous, but that's the way it is.

Rhizo

We have fenced off part of it where the outside dogs will be and where we will kennel them at night. Just waiting on the kennels completion. They are in there. The fence goes right up to the back of the house and runs along the end of the driveway where the trespassers were unloading their four wheeler. (The driveway is paved past where you would turn into the carport. The dog houses are there already. We are going to build the kennels around them as they are hand-built and very heavy (people think I'm nuts because my dog houses have shingles on the roof-but I don't know that a metal roof is appropriate for dogs) This is where they will stay tonight. The German Shepard tends to stand on his back legs and bark when he sees someone amiss. I figure the mere sight of a six foot tall dog (when he's standing on his back legs only anyway) might make them think that perhaps its time to work hard,save and plan so that they can buy their own land to run amok upon. Or if not, the presence of the dogs would at least suggest that people are living there.

SAVE that CAMERA FILE. Its evidence. If you complain to the local authorities and then stuff begins to happen to your place, that video identifies prime suspects. Do not do anything to tip off the malcontents that you have video recording capability.

Maybe it was group who 'played' on the property and nearby land when no one lived there. Their peeking in windows may have been an attempt to find if anyone was home, or was the property still vacant. Let's hope it was bunch of ATVers that was surprised the property might now be occupied.

Please go get your dogs and don't leave them up there alone. If people are looking to make trouble for you for whatever reason (be it race or something else), what would be easier than releasing your dogs from the yard or worse, hurting them? The type of people that would try to chase an interracial couple away wouldn't give a second thought to shooting your dogs to send a message. Plus, the dogs want to be with their family. I personally could not fathom dropping my dogs off in a potentially dangerous place to be left for hours on end and outside overnight. Buy yourself a good homeowners insurance policy and relieve your dogs of their security guard duties.

I would not leave dogs left alone no matter how vicious the dogs may appear! In this day and age, there are too many crazy people doing horrible things to dogs! They are not safe there alone!

"Please go get your dogs and don't leave them up there alone."

Agree. If there are prowlers around, the dogs may get stolen or hurt.

"My daughter has two pitbulls and they are the sweetest most gentle dogs."

Apparently many of them are, until some of them aren't. That is not simply my opinion, though. If one goes to sites about pit bulls, I have seen it said that some pit bulls have the tendency to be dog aggressive, and that owners should be aware of the possibility that this aggression might eventually and suddenly surface in even the sweetest ones.

A good owner may be able to watch for this possibility and thus have a harmonious dog household, but if the dogs are alone and unwatched they cannot be separated if conflict occurs.

If this widely provided advice to monitor one's dogs is not correct, please take it up with the sites that provide it. A recent thread here about a dog bite at a party had many saying that the owner should closely watch their dog for signs that the dog might be fearful or upset. One can't do that if they are out alone with each other.

lucille

I did not mean to start a dialogue on the ridiculous garbage that some people read and believe about pit bulls on the internet. I do not intend to get into a debate about it now. The belief that pits have some sort of aggression gene is just silly. A dog is a dog. The difference between dog breeds is size,strength,color,etc. The temperment and personality of a dog is individual to each dog,purebred or mutt. Anyway, like I said I don't wanna start a debate on the subject,as anyone who believes something like that because someone who doesn't like or trust a specific breed typed it on the internet is not likely to change their minds. I have lived the truth. I don't think it's a coincidence or luck that ALL of the many pits I have owned together are exceptions to the evil, aggressive, crazy dog waiting to snap pit bull rule. All together over the years i have owned dozens. Not one dogfight. Not one person bitten. The only dog that I have been bitten by was my brothers golden retriever. But I'm not gonna rally for a campaign against a whole breed because of it.

As for leaving the dogs alone. No one is ever at home 24/7/365. Good grief. I have not abandoned them to starve to death,alone and forgotten. They were out there for the night and we're not waiting by the fence,looking forlornly down the driveway when I went there this morning to pick them up. They were playing with their basketballs. Who in the world monitors their dogs every second? And as far as theives, I have had a pit bull stolen from inside my home before. It was sammy, the one I mentioned earlier. We were at work. The dog was in the house not outside. In any case, as I have said, after thoughtfull consideration and the great advice I got here, I feel that the trespassers were indeed just looking for somewhere to joyride. If they wanted to get into the house to steal what little is in there they could have easily done so, I realize that now. Besides, who loads up and brings four wheelers to a burglary right? I feel a little silly for overreacting at first,but that is my nature I'm afraid. I do so appreciate the reassurance I've gotten here.

"I did not mean to start a dialogue on the ridiculous garbage that some people read and believe about pit bulls on the internet."

KT is a place where many people talk about what they hear. It is fine if you do not want to talk about certain subjects, I stay away from some of them too. But I certainly have heard from many sources that pit bulls have been bred to be, and some of them are, dog aggressive. Is it true? Well, talking about the subject is the only way to hear the opinions of others.

It is OK if you do not want to participate, but I think leaving any dogs alone loose with each other outdoors with no owner within hearing/sight overnight is a taking a chance, and all of us at KT are able to volunteer our thoughts and concerns as long as they are courteous, which mine certainly were.

You're right lucille, I did not mean to offend. If I did I apologize. My mama bear comes out when I hear the same lies over and over about a breed I love so dearly.,especially when the sources of the lies have likely never owned or loved a pit. I can assure you that aggression is not a product of breeding but of training. There is no aggression gene that can be passed on to offspring. But aggression can easily be instilled by people,into any breed. People tend to blame the wrong end.of the leash.

We live out in the country and it is still amazing how many people will drive down our long, one lane driveway, past 8 no trespassing/posted/keep out signs, to try to sell us something or to "just see what was down here." Maybe it's innocent or maybe it's not, we never know. One time, 2 guys with a wrecker tried to haul off my husband's truck (there was no lien on the vehicle) and claimed it was a mistake when they were interrupted.

I wouldn't be able to leave my dogs outside with no one home since there are predators that could climb or jump over a fence. I would be worried sick.

i hope everything settles down for you out there, as locals realize that your property is off limits for their playground and hunting needs.

We live in a suburb. One of our property lines extends to the middle of a small creek. Kids want to play under the bridge and in the creek. When I talked to our local police about our responsibility for anything happening to the kids I was told to post No Trespassing signs or be liable.

AFAIK if you have not posted your property, you have no grounds for charging trespassers, and you can have claims filed against you for injuries sustained on your property. Is the law different in other areas?

amylou -

I own a pit and agree that they are sorely misunderstood. I didn't mean to imply in my comments above that the dogs shouldn't be left alone because one of them is a pit; I just don't think it's a good idea to leave any dog unsupervised for that length of time. Nor was I suggesting the dogs needed monitoring 24/7/365. But there is a great divide between constant monitoring and once-a-day check ins. Now that you are convinced the people weren't trying to rob you, but just use your land for off-roading, please bring your dogs back home.

There seems to be one person making exaggerated statements about the dogs in any manner, and that's amylou. No one has commented on them other than the concern over leaving them untended for hours of the night and day.

As long as her dogs are well cared for and loved, who cares what "type" they are? And how many she has is her business. Do you ask rude questions of people that have more children than you think they should?

murraysmom -

Not sure who your message is directed at, but just want to say for the record, I am not anti-pitbull, owning one myself, and didn't intend to imply amylou had too many dogs. I have four. I'd have more if it was feasible for me.

Rhizo and atomic Jay,

Another poster mentioned that they heard or read that group should not leave a pit bull alone with another dog. That's where my further comments came from. Atomic Jay, I only left them there for the night. They are back home and no doubt ready to move to the country to frolick freely in the vast amount of space I acquired just for them. I hope we can be moved in by February.

It sounds like you are going to have an awesome space for them to live! I wish all dogs could live in a place where they had acres of room to run free.

Me too! :)

Are you going to fence in this vast amount of acreage? You aren't going to let them roam, are you?

The fact you left your dogs alone to deal with potential criminals bothered me more than #$%& yokels peering in your windows before you moved in. Serious #$%& would have killed your dogs.

Make your property look occupied without dogs. Make it a point to get to know your closest neighbors. If your neighbors see that the two of you are a 'nice' couple willing to look after the neighborhood...they are more likely to feel the same about looking after your property.

Atomicjay, my comment was directed at golfergrrl for the rude comment she posted and seems to have removed.

There's a frequently recurring history of bull terriers that are "sweet" with their owners going on rampages where other people are mauled or even killed, and that is a fact. After one comparatively recent attack that led to a court case, television news coverage the apparently in-denial owner brought snapshots of the animal that made it look cute, talked about what a sweetie it was - with her at home.

The victim had had the usual injuries such as biting or tearing of the face or neck.

Yes, I removed a comment so as to not get into a spitting match with Murraysmom. I think it best to back away from what I really think about this dog issue. Each to their own.

I personally know some very sweet pit bulls, and have personally experienced some that were not sweet.

There seem to be some statistics, and a lot of information that says that some pit bulls may be dog aggressive. Is everyone just making this stuff up?

http://dogbitelaw.com/dog-bite-statistics/all-dog-bite-statistics

My sister taught dog obedience training for 35 years. She's now retired and raises Labradors. She has told of incidents in her classes where a dog turns on other dogs, for no reason. She has been lunged at for no reason, with no provocation. The dog in question? Pit bulls. Of course the owners all say the same old, tired mantra. "Not my dog." "My dog would never do that." "My Pit is the biggest baby." And on and on. Until something happens, Pit owners all say the same thing. It only takes once.

I've been in personal injury law for 25 years. In dozens, if not more, of "dog bite" cases we have represented, not one was a pit bull.
amylou, I hope you and your partner are welcomed into your new community and enjoy your new home. Merry Christmas!

The media has made people believe that this breed of dog is something possessed by demons. It's all a bunch of hogwash! Any dog can be aggressive. I belong to a dog park, have been going there daily for a few years now and of the dogs that have lost their memberships due to aggressive behavior, none have been pit bulls. One is a Australian Shepherd, one a doberman, and another is a lab mix. Of the pit bull type dogs that belong, they are all very social and play well with other dogs.

The reason this breed is used to fight is because of their physical traits, strong with strong jaws. They are taught(by evil dog fighters) to fight from the time they are babies and if they don't fight, they are killed or used for bait. A pit bull raised in a normal house, trained to be social and raised with love would not be any more prone to aggression than any other breed of dog. The real problem here is not the breed of dog but rather the humans that abuse them!

Isn't it interesting that this breed was once raised to be somewhat of a babysitter for the kids. Amazing what a twist the media has put on this breed!

Not everyone agrees with the nanny dog stories. It's hard to know what to believe sometimes.

http://thetruthaboutpitbulls.blogspot.com/2010/08/nanny-dog-myth-revealed.html

How did a vent about trespassers turn into a debate about pit bulls?

For those not interested in the somewhat O/T discussion of pit bulls, feel free to skip over this post.

angelaid, I'm glad you reported your experience with dog bite claims made involving (or more accurately, not involving, pit bulls.) I have struggled reading through various statistics, reports, etc. that try to evaluate whether pits are inherently more aggressive than other breed types. As most all of us know, statistics typically can be manipulated to support whatever outcome is desired by the person/group funding the report. That means there are reports on both sides, some saying pits are dangerous, some saying that pits are no more dangerous than other breeds. So, you have to do some deep digging to find out what assumptions and data sets were used in arriving at the conclusions in any particular report. Some of the more recent and (I think more fairly) conducted research dispels a lot of the previously believed "truths" about pit bulls.

Without going into great detail, more recent reports have identified a couple of main problems with previous reports concluding that pits are involved in more bites/attacks than other breeds by several magnitudes of order. The first problem is that previous reports included data where victims/witnesses self-identified the type of dog involved in the attack. This resulted in just about any dog with a square head and muscular body being called a "pit bull." The study presented people with a poster with photographs of 16 different dogs and asked if people could identify which of the 16 were "pit bulls." (Only 3 of the 16 were pits.) It has been a while since I read the study, but if I recall correctly, less than 10% of people could correctly identify the 3 true pit bulls on the poster. The other 90% could not only NOT correctly identify which of the dogs was a pit, but they over identified a dog as being a pit bull 75% of the time. So dogs that did not have a trace of "pit" DNA in them were being wrongly identified as pits in a vast majority of instances. Based on these misidentifications, the researchers concluded that previous claims that pit bulls were involved in 4, 5, 10 (whatever number) times the number of bites than other breeds are simply unreliable and not accurate.

When researchers controlled for identification bias by looking only at bite data where DNA or a veterinarian identified a dog's breed, the number of pit bull involved bites decreased dramatically - lower than German Shepherds, Rottweilers, and even Chihuahuas. There was no longer any support for the presumption that pits were X times more likely to bite than other breeds.

Finally, (as I've already gone on more than I intended to), second problem the more recent studies have dealt with is to see if of those breeds still at the top of the bite list have a genetic disposition to be more human aggressive. This has been a bit more difficult to study, but it does appear there is a correlation between owners and dog bites. Quickly, the study found that people who are drawn to own a pit, rottweiler, etc., are more likely to have a criminal history involving domestic abuse and to have more contacts with animal control regarding not properly restraining/containing the dogs in a yard. Although there is not now enough evidence to show a cause and effect, the researchers find support for the idea that dogs who are treated violently or who are left to roam the neighborhood are more likely to be involved in human bite incidents than those dogs who are not regardless of the breed.

Thank you atomicjay. It appears the lines are clearly drawn on this issue. No amount of facts will change the mind of someone who simply doesn't like the breed and will not be persuaded otherwise. AND there is no changing the minds of pibble lovers who know better. I guess the old "I'm sure some of them ARE sweet,but most are aggressive" is the only compromise some pit bull haters will make. As for me, I love all breeds,even if I prefer to own one or two breeds over the others. This happened by accident, as all but one of ours was found by my truck driver boyfriend starving on the side of various roads. They all just happened to be pitties or pittie mixes except Sebastian,our German Shepard (also found wandering on the side of a highway,all skin and bones) There was that one rat terrier,but my coworkers wife fell in love with her one day after we found her and so she went to be with their family instead, but she fit in to our strange menagerie right off the bat as well. But from necessity came compassion,love and a deep connection and understanding of sadly misunderstood and often horribly abused breed of fur babies. Now.....let's all get along..

CHRISTMAS TIIIIIIIIIME IS HEEEEEERRE...

HAPPINEEEEEEESSSS AND CHEEEEEERRR....

EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!

" It appears the lines are clearly drawn on this issue."

Actually, some were simply asking questions and seeking answers. In my opinion, jumping from that to insisting that lines are drawn is not productive.

I look kindly towards all dogs, but on Thursday ,my dachshund and I were attacked by a pit bull who pulled away from the guy who was walking him. I pushed my dog against our fence and shielded him with my legs fearing the worse. The dog was snarling and wildly barking. The owner hollered, I screamed and fortunately no one was hurt. I was waiting for my legs to be ripped from behind. Now I can see the other side.

AtomicJay, I'm so glad you continued on and wrote the second half of your post as it rings so true! I live about an hour north of Detroit which is notorious for the exact scenario you describe. I used to go there for work and have had people who live there look me in the eye and say that mean and aggressive is exactly how they want their dogs to be. It's not the dog's fault, it's clearly the mentality of the owners but I just don't get it.

A couple of weeks ago, a four year old boy walking to school with his mother was grabbed from her arms, mauled and killed by 4 dogs (described as pitbulls and pitt mixes) that "somehow" got out of their yard. Along with several other charges, the dog owner has now been charged with second degree murder. I don't know if charges like that are common but the case is big news here so if he's convicted, maybe that will send a message. I certainly hope so.

I have no problem admitting that I have really mixed emotions about the breed. While I'm an avid lover of all dogs, I could never have a dog I couldn't trust around people and other animals 100%, but that sentiment isn't limited to just pits; there are several breeds that fall into that category as well. As I've suggested before in another thread, I believe that permits to own a dog should be required and part of the criteria for getting a permit should include classes regarding proper care and handling as well as some general breed information.

mauling of 4 year old boy

Fighting Pit Bulls are not people aggressive, they are raised to be dog aggressive. AtomicJay's post is spot on.

The best behaved, most socialized dogs on my block (other than my own ;-0) were 3 pits that lived up the street. They were raised as family dogs and their owner "looked" the profile of the gangsta owner but was the sweetest guy and the best neighbor one could have. I was so sorry to see to see them move.

I like the bullie and large breeds in general. My dogs all crossed the bridge closely so now I find myself with an only for the first time in year. Rottie pup who is being well socialized, was the star student in her puppy obedience class she just passed and loves everyone she meets. Because she is a friendly dog she will be an excellent guardian when she grows up. Unsocial pups do not grow up to be great protection dogs. They merely grow up to be out of control dogs no one can trust. Not even their owners.

Amylou is so right that the lines are clearly drawn. There is so much misunderstanding of breeds and breed behavior. My puppy class instructor thanked me for teaching her so much about rotties. She had no idea they were herders for example. When I was looking for doggie daycare I found that although the day cares were inclusive they tended to separate the large breeds from the smaller and give time outs for the slightest hint of rough play. When I walk her it is black and white. Either people are drawn to her or not. Even in puppy class some people sat well away from us even though she sat calmly by my side, play bowed and never barked or growled once to the other dogs while they yapped and pulled at their leashes. LOL I finally found an excellent day care. The guy forms packs of his clients. She had several visits to evaluate her fitting in. He does not segregate animals and he allows rough play. She loves it. She plays with Huskies and GSDs twice her size and has several pitties she plays with. This place can have 50 plus dogs in the room. The pack is strong and secure because the people who work there as leaders understand the importance of alpha leadership by humans and letting the dogs work out their hierarchy.

I take my rottie everywhere that allows dogs. The most unsocialized behavior I see is from small breeds whose owners treat them like children or little fashion dolls. So many of them are vicious little snowflakes.

Congrats Amylou for forming a strong healthy pack with your rescues.

Have a great Christmas everyone.