I don't know if I agree. I'm sure technically, you're right...that would be more efficient. But many people don't have your artistic ability. It really helps to find one or two areas, where they can say, "this is what I want."

Then, it's the challenge of determining what it is the person likes. The white cabinets and marble countertops? Or is it the layout of the space?

Is it the trims and crown moldings in the dining room? The big wooden table or that cozy window seat?

Neither one of us is an architect, but I think most people have a difficult time 'seeing' blueprints in 2-D, let alone 3-D. So pictures make a big difference! And pictures tend to be of smaller parts of the overall home :)

No one is asking you to see in 2D. But you need the the big pictures before the detail pictures. The detail pictures are what YOU do to personalize a space after the architect leaves.

If you don't even have a house, then how can you have a kitchen with the backsplash, countertops, fun coffee cups etc. An architect doesn't need to see that you want blue subway tile and a farmhouse sink with a rohl faucet during the first meetings. What they do need to see is an overall feel for the house, like the rooms JJ just posted.

we met w/one that's pretty well-known here in CA and they handed us a book full of their stock plans and said you can pick one, modify one, or draw your own and they'll draft, etc. and get the ball rolling. Since we've not ever built a custom home, we thought that's what we're supposed to do. They told us to even drawn a rough sketch on a napkin and that'll do and they'll take care of the rest. REALLY?! People just hand over the reins just like that?! Wow, so that's why we started coming up with a floor plan. At no point did they say try an architect or even a designer. We tried to modify one of their stock plans but it would require quite a few mod's so it became pointless and therefore we decided to go the custom route.

That's how we got started too. Except I trusted that his draftsman could take my rough ideas and put them into a working plan. He couldn't.

I had to do it myself but I have a design background and can visualize walking through a house etc, and it soon became obvious to me that the draftsman had really no design background. That became clear when he made the second floor windows on my house 2x as long as my first floor windows. When I made a comment that second floor windows normally are smaller or at least the same size as first floor windows, he gave me an attitude and said "Where did I read that design rule?" I ignored him.

If I had went with an architect from the beginning, I probably could have saved myself many months of going back and forth and would already be building.

Tcufrog got it right!

I'm sure your "panelized home builder" or your "PROFESSIONAL homebuilder" did not ask you what your priorities are in the way you live; but thats okay because THEY DON'T CARE, they just want to build a house. The worst way to build a home is to pick a floor plan and plop it on a site. A home is a response to it's environment and a reflection of people it shelters.

Take this PROFESSIONAL architect's advice and start writing your list(s) and start interviewing architects like tcufrog did. When you select an architect, meet with them, give them your list(s) and discuss the list(s) with them; also discuss with them the services they are able to provide. The meeting will generate many questions and answers from both of you. Also meet with the architect on your site to discuss the site's attributes.

After a short period of time the architect will come up with a schematic design(s) and review it with you. After a schematic design that meets your needs is finalized, the architect will produce design development drawings that are more detailed and will review them with you. After the design development drawings meet your approval, the architect will produce a set of construction drawings that will guide the construction process.

Not all architects offer the same services. You may wish your architect to perform other services such as interior design, landscape design, bidding services, contract administration, etc.

In the end you will have a home that fits your needs and the environment in which it sets. Not so specialize that you will not be able to sell it if the time arrises, but something you can live in for many years to come.

Here's our list of criteria that DH and I agree on for the most part. Can't get bullet points to post on here...

3-car garage or at least 2.5 car, we have lived w/a 2-car garage for 12+ years now, no bueno. He grew up w/a deep 2-car and I with a more shallow 3-car and both are much better for our needs

Great Room preferred over separate family and
living rooms
1 master suite w/larger walk-in and toilet w/door
that has a window

2 kids’ bedrooms (reasonable size is ok, we want
the family to spend time together in common areas more than in their own rooms)

1 guest room (preferably a suite w/bathroom but
not must)

Walk-in closets in all rooms (in kids and guest
rooms do not need to be big, just do not want sliding door type closets
anymore!)

1 classroom/that can be multipurpose (doesn’t
have to be very big, just reasonable)

1 home theatre (preferably no windows/dark for
viewing)

1 smaller computer room/library, but can be
forgone if not possible to fit

Kitchen w/big island (doesn’t have to have
windows, but needs to be close enough to have natural light)

Prefer close access from garage to kitchen but
doesn’t need to be direct access (diagonal access ok)

Pantry that’s close but doesn’t have to be directly
within kitchen (again, I had mentioned we don’t have one now and found we need
one)

Separate laundry is nice but one that doubles as
a walkway/hallway is not a deal-breaker

Really would like to avoid the long & wide
hallway at the foyer/entry that we have seen in MANY new developments here in
Sacramento (so do people write them off as all poorly designed just b/c they’re
tract homes? Some of them aren’t bad but SO many of them have that long wide
hallway at the entry, wasted space)

Again (as mentioned above), the limitations are house can only be 55’
across towards the back of lot where it is 65’ wide although in the front it is
possible to build as wide as 65’ across b/c the lot is 75’ wide in the front
(think slight rhombus shape, see plot plan posted above), but our lot is 125+ feet deep so lots of room to work with, just not very wide.

No vaulted ceiling, prefer coffered ceiling
instead – plan to have 9 foot ceiling in common areas and 8 foot ones in
bedrooms

FINALLY, our budget, we're looking at $120-$150/sq ft for a no bigger than 2500 sq ft home (40% of lot size of 8260 is 3304, so subtract out garage of 650-720 and our livable space cannot be over 2654, but we think around 2500 sq ft is big enough) so $310,000-$387,600 is our limit as we do plan to DIY some parts of the house after the big items have been done. That budget is do-able for us, under $400K.

***I understand that all of these criteria may not happen in
a one-story house but that part is non-negotiable again b/c we do not plan to
downsize from a two-story like my parents are currently having to do due to old
age and health and so we need to stick with a one-story***

Thank you to those who have been helpful and not rude. Is it inherently wrong to tinker with floorplans for fun? So only those who can paint like Rembrandt should pick up a paintbrush? I posted all my subsequent "floor plans" more for me to keep a thread going of my own ideas, etc. but perhaps I need to do that offline.

As I explained, our approach may not have started off right b/c we were told to draw something up on a napkin (so our attempts at our own floorplan is just a logical extension as we thought maybe on the computer would be better than on a napkin, no?) and let the "professionals" take care of the rest. Obviously, that may not be the right way. We are meeting with a couple of professionals in the next few weeks. Merry CHRISTmas!

I wrote late last night the following: "I had to do it myself"

That should be amended to, "I had to do it myself WITH the help of lots of folks here on this forum. I couldn't have done it completely on my own.

"Team effort" is a key ingredient.

"Spouses cannot agree" is a common occurrence. I need to get myself a black and white vertically striped shirt and keep it in my briefcase.

***I understand that all of these criteria may not happen in a one-story house but that part is non-negotiable again b/c we do not plan to downsize from a two-story like my parents are currently having to do due to old age and health and so we need to stick with a one-story***

And why can't you just do as most of the homes in FL do that are two story? The master is on the first floor and just the guest rooms on the second. Chances are if you're at the point where you need help just to get up the stairs, you won't be cleaning your own house anyway, so you'd have no reason to go upstairs.

Or make one of the closets on the first and second floor "elevator ready" so that if the time ever came that you needed an elevator, it would be a relatively easy job to put one in.

You say you're planning on homeschooling in two years which says to me you and your DH are young. You are assuming that you will live in this house until they drag you out, and that may be true, or it may not be true. However to build a house for the distant future and constrain yourself now, is not necessarily a good idea. No house can meet all our needs for now and the future without modifications when the time comes.

JJ..

That's a good list to take to an architect for a basis for opening discussion. We would love to have a one story house but it wasn't possible given our lot so we put the kids' bedrooms and their hang out space on the second floor. If you can't fit that all on one floor given your lot limitations what about putting the classroom and kids' bedrooms on the second floor? Once you've gotten to the point where you can't climb the stairs anymore the kids will (hopefully) be out of house and you won't be home schooling anymore. This will leave all of your empty nesting rooms on the first floor. A friend of my parents' did this. They never go upstairs anymore because they don't need to. If their grown kids are coming for a visit they pay a cleaning service just to clean the second floor since they can manage the first floor. Making your home a two story house usually saves you money.

Tinkering with floor plans is a lot of fun and that is partially why I do what I do, but many times tinkered floor plans go down the wrong path and should not be built.

If one wants to paint like Rembrandt, there are certain paths to get there. I would think posting my painting and ask what can I do to this painting to make it look like Rembrandt did it, is not the best path. I have a little experience in this area.

And . . . Have a Very Merry CHRISTmas.

Thanks for all the feedback. I forgot to mention that there are other reasons for our general dislike of two-story homes:

- we'd have to trek up there for now and it's tiring even though we're relatively young. We don't want the kids' rooms to be up there and ours downstairs while they're young. My husband would probably never go up and I'd end up doing everything that needs done up there and his alibi would be "I told you I didn't want a 2-story b/c I don't want to climb stairs, I'm tired after a long day of work, etc..." He does work 1 hour away from home each way and he's part of a van pool where he's a driver, and his job is demanding, so I can't fault him for not wanting to trek up any set of stairs.

- I grew up in a two-story and b/c it only had centralized heating/cooling, everyone pretty much migrated downstairs and stayed on the couches/guest room during the summer b/c it was so damn hot up there even with the AC blasting. I understand we can have dual systems now, vs. my parents 1990s home, but I'm sure it'll cost a pretty penny and our current gas (heat) and electricity (cooling) bills are AMAZINGly low b/c our house is so well insulated (all except the vaulted master bedroom which we call "antartica" in the winter and it's seriously 10+ degrees colder than the rest of the house every winter) and we do NOT deprive ourselves of heat/cooling b/c we both grew up w/parents who did, so we are always comfortable and yet our bills our totally reasonable b/c it's a one-story. You might not believe it but in Northern California where it's "mild," people's heating and cooling bills are upwards of $100-200 a month (we're always at $50 or below, and comfortably so). We don't have that problem in our one-story (we bought and self-installed bats and bats of R-30 in our whole attic when we first got married).

- my kids are still young and they'll break their necks, esp. the little one, he's an animal. I know we can install gates as many do, I also know many parents who have fallen down flights of stairs themselves b/c of those very gates.

@Mark, I see your point, I wasn't posting to say hey, I paint like a 3-year-old, now help me fix it enough to look like a Rembrandt, I'm saying I was posting floor plan after floor plan b/c going through a panelized homebuilder with a drafting department, they *somehow* (I don't know HOW...) apparently just run with even the most rudimentary and poorly drawn out (I had to delete word "designed") floor plans on napkins and they're fine with that. So we thought as long as we have a rough sketch that has good flow, they'll take care of the rest which they have many times in the past for their customers. Now I don't know how those "custom" homes turned out, but I also can't visit any of them, so in retrospect it's not a good idea, but the way they explained the process, they made it sound like their drafting department will take care of any design problems (i.e. completely illogical or unfeasible elements on that said napkin). It did NOT even occur to us to go to an architect or designer, since they do the drafting, engineering, and permitting, their "packaged" home process made it sound too easy, but probably at the cost of bad outcomes?

So are y'all saying that stock plans from packaged home builders all "suck" b/c they're stock plans? Are they inherently poorly designed just b/c they're not custom? Or are some of them ok if a family doesn't have such specific needs as my family or they're more flexible? In an ideal world everyone build their own custom home, but in the real world, lots of people are buying tract homes and I don't think they all hate their new homes...

I also want to ask how much it would cost to hire an architect, I know the price could range widely, but since it's not a service I've ever used (I know how much is too much for a certain car b/c I have experience buying cars, or how much it should cost to hem some trousers, just mean I have a sense how much certain services cost but none whatsoever in this area), I just want to know ballpark figure (low of, high up to), we will need to budget for that cost.

Your "want list" is the best thing you've posted yet. This is your real starting point.

However, I don't think you're going to get it all in 2500 sf -- or, if you do, the rooms will be so small as to be impractical. So I'd ask two general questions, which hopefully will help you further refine your list:

- Which things are prioritized more highly? When something has to be dropped from the list, will it be the guest room or the TV room? The oversized garage or the classroom?

- Where could you combine items to make them more functional? For example, you say you don't want to waste square footage on a foyer -- yet you need an entrance. Could you place a floor-to-ceiling bookcase in the foyer, making it into a library /computer area? You could close it off with a pocket door so it could act as a room, when it suits you. Could you build a room that can be a classroom now, and later it can become a guest room? Could the computer area not be combined into the classroom? Could the kids share a bedroom? To get all the spaces you want in 2500 sf, you're going to have to combine something somewhere.

And some smaller, specific questions and comments:

- I never see the point in putting the toilet into a closet, but I really don't understand why you'd want a window in the closet door.

- We also wanted to encourage the kids to be in the living room as a family, not tucked away in their bedrooms. More important than the size of the room is what they have in the room: We have TVs and game systems ONLY in the family room. When the kids were younger, we had only one computer: a desktop in plain view in the family room.

- I don't think the no-windows-at-all in the theater room is a good idea. You're probably not going to stay in this house for the rest of your life, and a task-specific room like a theater room may or may not appeal to a potential buyer -- but you'll find very few people who will want a living area without any natural light.

- I'm not sure DIYing a portion of the build is realistic, especially in a one-story house. DIYing with small children always takes more time (and money) than you expect, and if you're borrowing through a construction loan, you're likely to drag out your build, negating the financial benefit of DIYing. On the other hand, if you do an unfinished basement, your lender will let you close on the house ... and you could put in the classroom, guest room, theater room later.

I'd like to take a stab at some of your other comments. :)

- we'd have to trek up there for now and it's tiring even though we're relatively young. We don't want the kids' rooms to be up there and ours downstairs while they're young. My husband would probably never go up and I'd end up doing everything that needs done up there and his alibi would be "I told you I didn't want a 2-story b/c I don't want to climb stairs, I'm tired after a long day of work, etc..." He does work 1 hour away from home each way and he's part of a van pool where he's a driver, and his job is demanding, so I can't fault him for not wanting to trek up any set of stairs.

Um, you're taking care of two young kids. Isn't that equally if not more demanding? I've done both. Worked full-time commuting 1 hour each way into the city to a managerial job, and then to a job where I ran my own company, and I've stayed home taking care of two young children. Trust me, taking care of the children while much more rewarding, was equally if not more demanding!

I can understand your desire not to trek up and downstairs constantly though. However to get everything you want in your house on such a narrow lot, you may not be able to do it any other way. Hopefully the architect can figure it out for you.

- I grew up in a two-story and b/c it only had centralized heating/cooling, everyone pretty much migrated downstairs and stayed on the couches/guest room during the summer b/c it was so damn hot up there even with the AC blasting. I understand we can have dual systems now, vs. my parents 1990s home, but I'm sure it'll cost a pretty penny and our current gas (heat) and electricity (cooling) bills are AMAZINGly low b/c our house is so well insulated (all except the vaulted master bedroom which we call "antartica" in the winter and it's seriously 10+ degrees colder than the rest of the house every winter) and we do NOT deprive ourselves of heat/cooling b/c we both grew up w/parents who did, so we are always comfortable and yet our bills our totally reasonable b/c it's a one-story. You might not believe it but in Northern California where it's "mild," people's heating and cooling bills are upwards of $100-200 a month (we're always at $50 or below, and comfortably so). We don't have that problem in our one-story (we bought and self-installed bats and bats of R-30 in our whole attic when we first got married).

Heating and cooling is not what it was back when you grew up. With 2 and 3 zone systems upstairs and downstairs will be equally comfortable. If it's not, then your builder or whomever did a poor job of insulating your house and designing your HVAC system. Plus with a well insulated and tight house, it shouldn't cost anymore than a 1 story house. In fact, you answered your own comment when you said YOUR current house was well insulated, so sorry that is NOT a reason to go with only a 1 story home.

Plus with multi zone systems when you're not using the area, you just turn it off or lower the temp.

- my kids are still young and they'll break their necks, esp. the little one, he's an animal. I know we can install gates as many do, I also know many parents who have fallen down flights of stairs themselves b/c of those very gates.

I moved into a house with a straight run of 15 stairs when my baby was 1 year old and my "animal" was 4. Both survived as do most children who are TAUGHT how to go up and down stairs safely. And yes, gates help.

It did NOT even occur to us to go to an architect or designer, since they do the drafting, engineering, and permitting, their "packaged" home process made it sound too easy, but probably at the cost of bad outcomes?

In my case if I didn't have a design background and didn't have the help of the folks here, then yes, it probably would have been a lot less than what I wanted. I've seen some of our builder's other plans and some are well designed interiors, but a few are awful. And any of the exteriors that the draftsman designed look absolutely hideous. In fact the salesman talked the builder into redesigning one of the exteriors because it was that bad.

So are y'all saying that stock plans from packaged home builders all "suck" b/c they're stock plans?

No there are some really good stock plans too.

Are they inherently poorly designed just b/c they're not custom?

They are good for basics. However in your case you need certain specific things that are not "common" such as your theater room and your home schooling room. For a basic lot in a basic development the plan can be just what is needed. However most of the plans are designed for the "average".

Or are some of them ok if a family doesn't have such specific needs as my family or they're more flexible? In an ideal world everyone build their own custom home, but in the real world, lots of people are buying tract homes and I don't think they all hate their new homes...

Exactly. Mrspete found an online plan that works for her with a few small modifications. I believe Amber did and so did many others here. And the homes are beautiful and work for their needs.

Many years ago, my aunt bought a plan house. Back in those days they were in magazines. She sent away for the plans, had her builder modify a few rooms in terms of size and added more windows to the living room. And she had a fabulous house on a lake from those plans. But there again, she was able to see and visualize the plans herself. She had an excellent eye.

Obviously I have no idea what it costs for an architect. I'm thinking you don't need the whole package but just to get the overall general layout of your house interior and exterior and how it relates to the land. Once you have that, my guess is the design/build team can take over?

@mrs.pete, I totally agree with the multi-functional way of having fewer rooms but still achieve the purposes we need. Like a classroom can have a computer niche to double for our "paperwork central" for DH and me, just close the niche and lock if needed when guests are coming by, and that classroom can double as a playroom too, I don't know that kids need to be in class much when they're little anyway, esp. in a homeschool environment.

Basically, I agree with all your suggestions, I'll have to have the architect/designer tell the same to DH (such as it's better to have a home theatre that has at least some natural light via one/more window and then use black out curtains to make it completely dark as needed) for him to listen b/c I've told him this many times in the past few weeks, that the home theatre needs to double as something else sometimes, maybe a classroom, maybe have bookcases in there next to his DVD collection and so it turns into a library, and it'd be nice to not have artificial light during the day when natural light would be so much better. Does he agree with me? No. I'm not a "professional" so who am I to know, right?

So I'll just wait for the profs to tell him the same. The home theatre was actually my idea as I want NO TVs in the family/living/great/common room whatever we want to call it. I grew up where my parents always had the TV on, and I don't think it helped our family to bond or helped anyone's communication. The TV turned into the focal point and the same at relatives' house, every function, people are watching the TV a lot more than talking to each other, what's the point of gathering then... The TV will be in the room for PURPOSEFUL TV watching like if they're over for a football game, then ok...

We'll be refi-ing our current home to build this, the DIY parts will be limited to like installing laminate floorings in common areas and interior painting. That's about it, I have an uncle and aunt and my dad who are all very handy and have done their own tile work but we don't plan to have tile, but they may help some things like installing light fixtures and door knobs, basic plumbing fixtures, toilets, these have all been done by them many, many times over the years. My dad have fixed leaks that professionals couldn't fix completely (leaked again later) at church, so we have some help, not at all trying to do things like electrical or rough plumbing...

I'll be asking the professionals we meet w/what realistically can be combined. I'm thinking library in the classroom would be a natural fit (built in book shelves) w/a computer niche that can be closed off tastefully. It wouldn't be out of the question (to me) to have a computer niche in the Master bedroom since we do a lot of paperwork in the middle of the night since our sleep hours have now changed thanks to the kids (3.5 and 1.5). I was wrapping presents, etc. at 1 am the other day after going down w/the DD at 9, went back to bed around 3 after getting lots done w/o anyone hanging on my legs!

JJ I wanted to message you but you don't have messaging turned on.

Ok, I didn't turn it off, how do I turn it on? I've gotten messages from a person on here before.

I think you have to go into your houzz and there's a place to change your settings.

I am wondering -- does a TV room need to be dark? I mean, growing up with my folks, I'd almost always rather be reading, while they had the TV set running (and Mother would look at her magazines while we watched TV.) In a dark room, the other option would have been for me to go off and be anti-social and read alone. I guess I'm just not seeing a TV room as being a movie theatre, and it was just as easy for us back in the day to watch the TV with reading lights on, or with daylight streaming in. (Just situate the thing so glare from sunlight doesn't land directly on its screen.)

Just curious.... And I am asking because if darkness is not necessary could this modify your layout some? (PS, when growing up, TV would only be on after dinner. News, a few sitcoms, maybe a movie, maybe a PBS NOVA episode -- I liked that last when we had the choice.) So wondering if while you are watching TV, if your children who may want to be with you during this time, will have options (as in reading) when they are older.

Exactly. Mrspete found an online plan that works for her with a few
small modifications. I believe Amber did and so did many others here

Yes, stock plans work if you're looking for something fairly basic -- but most houses that work boil down to basic floorplans. The thing is, you have to be sure your plan works with your land ... and you have to be sure the lighting /directions work ... and you have to be sure you have to be sure you're not looking at too many alterations. If you're looking at moving multiple walls, adding and reducing rooms, etc., you're probably better off having something custom done.

And don't underestimate how many plans you'll have to look at before you pick up on details that make a house work -- flow, room size, and more.

@mrs.pete,
I totally agree with the multi-functional way of having fewer rooms but
still achieve the purposes we need ...

I suggest you try an exercise from Susan Sarahka's (spelling?) book. She suggests that you list all the rooms you want ... and then make a list of activities you expect to happen in that room and things you'll want to store in that room. in your case, this would help you communicate that you want a room for socializing and a room for TV watching. Don't think yet about how you want those rooms to look -- just think about how you want them to function, what you want to do in those rooms.

Part of this would include things you want to include in the room. Perhaps you've already bought a 60" TV and want to be sure it'd fit on the wall. Perhaps you have a nice cabinet you want to convert into a TV cabinet. Do you want space for two sofas, or a sectional? Or do you want those TV viewing recliners, which take up more space? Do you want this room to be closed off with doors? Do you want storage for DVDs, etc. in this room?
We'll be refi-ing our current home to build this, the DIY parts will
be limited to like installing laminate floorings in common areas and
interior painting.

You're not selling your current home?

It's fun playing around with floor plans and also productive in thinking through your wants and needs. It is especially helpful once you have the lot, but even if not, having an idea of your desired floorplan helps in selecting a lot.

No one program works for everyone. For some people a stock plan with modifications is fine. Others want something a bit more unique. Neither is better or worse, just different strokes for different folks.

We are building a fairly unique duplex with our DD and SIL in a resort area. Budget (for building only) is between 1.2 and 1.5 million (only reason I am saying that is because when I say we are building a duplex, certain readers jump to a conclusion that a duplex is by necessity a mirror image, tract, lower end home, which is not the case in our area). In our case we had an idea of how we wanted our floorpan to work before selecting the lot. After purchasing the lot, we tinkered with the floor plan to work with the lot topograpy, views, etc. By that time we had a pretty good idea but considered an architect a must. On advice here we did not initially show the plan to the architect, but instead translated it into a narrative list of needs wants and desires. That was a mistake. But about an hour into the first meeting, DH insisted that I show our architect the plan I had drawn and that was the correct move -- at a glance the architect understood exactly what we wanted and actually was extremely impressed. His first preliminary plan, incorporated much of our plan but also put his artistic stamp on it made some great changes we never would have thought of. Since then we've been working on tweaks and he asks for my sketches -- some of which he will use, some he will reject (and tell me why) and some of my work he will modify. So far it has been a delightfully colaberative process. We expect final design review plans next week and hope to break ground this summer.

Thank you all for the further comments. We had a busy week with family over the holidays. We met with one designer and I did show him our "sketches", although not right away. We told him our lot location, he already knows many of the regulations and limitations given his experience in the city, as well as in our specific area of town, then we shared our needs and wants and finally with some hesitation, I showed him a couple of our sketches as presented above and he got an idea of what we are trying to do with this custom home. He hasn't gotten back with us with any preliminary sketches, but he said he liked this one (posted above): http://st.hzcdn.com/simgs/f1c26d610673350c_8-0813/home-design.jpg and find the flow logical and open. He explained that it is not a make-or-break to have any room not have windows although it is not advisable, he even brought up those circular skylights (don't know technical name) as one way to bring light into the Home Theatre in my husband's sketch. At this point, we are still trying to line up interviews with other designers/architects, but we also went to look at other model homes for ideas b/c what is happening is that a lot of builders are trying to maximize in the usage of smaller lots so their floor plans have the same condition we are giving ourselves, which is that we have to stack front of the house pretty much flush against the front of the garage which creates the "long wasted hallway" issue in the entryway. We saw some model homes where they put a small(er) sitting/living room right at the entryway and I liked that although husband says we don't have the luxury of space to have that and still fit within the 40% of 8260 sq ft footprint limitation and still have our "desired" rooms with their various purposes. I am willing to forgo a great big "great room" next to the kitchen (since in his version of the floor plan) the Home Theatre can open up to make the whole area feels bigger, in lieu of having a sitting room right at the entry in order to not have the entry hallway issue. I plan to present such a sketch to whomever we hire as our designer, but the one we interviewed so far did mention that given our one-story decision and the footprint size limitations, there are only so many ways to configure all the rooms. I'm a little concerned that he's on the more conservative side. He definitely got the technical side down but I'm not sure he would think much outside the box.

He didn't bring sample of his work for us to see, and we didn't (know to) ask to see any, can those of you who have hired architects and/or designers please give me some pointers on how to interview them before our next interviews? Thank you so much.

@mrspete, for now we don't plan to sell our current house, we plan to rent it out, financially it is doable, but we don't know long terms our plans for it yet.

@cpartist, I got a message from another commenter on this very thread here who let me know she was able to message me just fine so I don't think my settings are the problem.

@artemis_ma, we're undecided on that, but the designer gave us the idea of skylights to brighten that room and we're open to that as well as using pocket doors to open it up for light as needed since it's attached to the great room which will have sliding glass doors out to the backyard and light coming from the kitchen.

@mrspete again, I kind of did that with the listing of rooms we want above, but certainly I don't mind doing such an exercise if it'll help us really get on paper what we want from each room. I wanted to present such a list to this first designer, but he didn't ask for it (should he have?) and he seemed more concerned about the technical aspects so I'm a bit concerned that he is just going to do a "cut and dry" job. The interviewing needs to continue either way.

@mojomom, thanks for the encouragement that playing around with floor plans can be productive b/c I certainly think it's helped me see why some are so bad (period) and some are bad for *my* family's needs/wants, and some can be worked with, and some will be modified so much that it's almost like one drawn up from scratch although all of my tinkering as posted above were based on stock plans that resonated with me on some basic level so that fundamentally they weren't too far off from what we want except we needed to add a couple more rooms to all of them since we want 4 bedrooms and 2 extra "multipurpose" type rooms, that's a lot to expect/want out of a one-story house and we fully understand that.

Having said all that, here's my version of hubby's plan that I *CAN* live with. Also, the designer upon seeing my hubby's plan did not say it's horrible and I actually don't think it is just ridiculously bad either b/c I have seen several model homes within the past few weeks that are very similar and they have problem areas but none of them were so bad that they shouldn't have been built (and I've walked through homes that are literally like mazes and shouldn't have been conceived let alone built).

Sorry had trouble attaching in the last entry, here it is. I really *really* want a sitting room/living room right up front. I told DH it is my one criterion that is non-negotiable b/c I want the option of having people come into the house "this far" and no further, say for people dropping off things or picking up things from me that are more like business/acquaintances. I prefer them not enter into my kitchen/great room area. I am ok with being flexible with what I do w/all the other rooms be it educating my kids in the home theatre room instead of the "classroom" or in the guest bedroom if it comes down to it. But I think a living room isn't a bad thing and for my intended hosting purposes, having separate areas may be really necessary.

Here's a VERY (to me) similar design that I also think is pretty ok, but of course DH is more agreeable with a modified version of what he came up with vs. me modifying (as, yet) another stock plan. I will be presenting these two (and ONLY these two) sketches at the next interviews with other designers and architects. At this point I don't think tinkering with any other plans will do anything for our process/progress. I will flesh out the list of rooms with descriptions of what I envision for each one as mrspete suggested per that book (I'll go look it up) and then leave it there until we get professional input and his/her technical advice. Meeting the first designer helped as he pointed out to DH some things that simply aren't good ideas if we were ever to resell the home even if our intentions are to live in it long-term, and/or not really doable/advisable from a technical/architectural/regulatory points of view.

Here's the second one, again not too different from above, but also has the sitting room upfront that takes care of the tunnel entry that I couldn't live with.

he seemed more concerned about the technical aspects so I'm a bit concerned that he is just going to do a "cut and dry" job.

It sounds like he's NOT a designer but a draftsman. Don't do as I did and get stuck with a draftsman because you'd be looking at someone who really has no clue about design. I have a design background and I feel I wasted months of time trying to get the draftsman to do what I designed.

Be sure to ask about their schooling. If they didn't have any architecture or art school design but only engineering or something similar, they are not what you need.

Ask to see examples of their work and also ask if you can call their references.

Ask if you can actually walk through their finished houses.

You're having a guest bedroom with no closet? (Your hubby's plan.) Not so bad but where the heck will your guests go to the bathroom? They have to walk across the main hall? (Remind me to get a hotel room if I am invited to your house. ;) )

Honestly, do yourself a favor and DON'T bring these plans. They don't work.

There is no way to message you on either of your names. I can "follow" you but that doesn't give me the option to privately message you. Go into your privacy settings and turn on messaging.

Can you count the bedroom where you live as a bedroom if there's no closet? If you can't then your resale value will go down if you try to sell the house.

@cpartist, ok, I adjusted it to allow anyone to message me, my default was "allow only those who follow me to message" me, and lavender and someone else were able to message me no problem. They sure buried the privacy settings... https://support.houzz.com/hc/en-us/articles/201921783-How-do-I-adjust-my-privacy-settings-

@cpartist, towards the end of the interview/consultation, I expressed that Hubby is a civil engineer and that's why we are really looking for someone who can bring in design expertise that neither one of us has (although I have an art background to a small degree and definitely more left-right-brain balanced although my line of work is statistics still technical) to help us design this custom home. As I said, there are "must have's" and then wants, and I'm willing to give up a few wants here and there, such as garage a bit far from the kitchen is ok as long as it's still within reason walking through a common area and not a bedroom, something like that, or a bit smaller bedrooms for the kids (to encourage spending time in common areas and b/c we simply can't build beyond the 40% footprint of our lot). The no closet in the guest bedroom is actually my idea, all the latest changes to Hubby's plan were done by me. I decided that a separate living/sitting (i.e. smaller than traditional "living") room is a must after all and for that I am willing to have a smaller Great Room by the kitchen. I actually really like the second floor plan I posted above. It needs work, but I think it's a huge improvement from earlier plans. We are still hiring a designer, but I disagree that these plans absolutely don't work. They have potential.

The consultation with this first designer taught me a few things about where we're building and confirmed that we don't have a choice but to put some kind of room up front at about the same level as the garage (be it 3-bay or 2.5-bay which Hubby and I talked about going with a deep 2-car instead of wide 3-car last night). Per our City's new regulations per this designer, who currently is working on several residential projects in the city, no new residential home can have an entry way that is far inset from the garage. This is for safety and for the city's aesthetics, according to him. Which makes sense b/c literally every single one/two-story model home we have visited recently have an entry way that is a longer hallway in order to have front of the house lined up close to the front of the garage (regardless of 2 or 3-car). The lots also are tending to narrower, deep lots, which is also why builders are designing homes with the same "problem" as ours (i.e. what to do to avoid a long entry way).

Back to the point, after disclosing that Hubby is a civil engr, this first designer says he's a mechanical engineer (or was), so the interviewing will have to keep going until we find the right person.

@tcufrog, the no closet is not set in stone. I made it that way for now to make it more a multipurpose room but again it's not a firm decision. The designer told us that where we live, every room that has a built in closet is considered a bedroom (yes) and therefore will increase property taxes, so I was trying to balance the resale value vs. costs, but as yet I don't know if it'll make such a big impact. I'm wanting a walk in (even if small) closet vs. sliding door closets in EVERY bedroom. Older homes in my area have tiny 4x2 closets and today's residents pretty much all have to add chests of drawers and/or wardrobe to contain all their clothes, etc. so I don't think in a guest room to not have a built-in closet is a deal breaker, but it's not a final decision yet.

I have no problem with the room not having a closet as one can always be added to call it a true bedroom. What I have a problem with if this is your guest room, and I was a guest, I would not appreciate having to walk into the main hallway area to go to the bathroom.

I agree your plan is better than your DH's.

If you have a great room and a theater room, do you really also need a living room? Couldn't the theater room double as a living room type of area?

I say that because I can see you eliminating the living room, adding a hallway behind the great room to connect the bedrooms and making them all private so you're not entering your master from the great room. There is still the problem of the fourth bedroom having to walk out into the main hallway to use the facilities.

Trust me I understand about zoning laws. I don't know if you saw my long winded threads about my lot and zoning, but in a nutshell. We are a corner lot. About 6100 sq feet. We are only allowed 35% under roof. That has to include a front porch that is a minimum of 6' deep x 10' wide or by 1/3 the width of the house/whichever is larger.

Garages and lanai's count as under roof. Because of that we downsized to a one car garage (we're in a small city on a city lot so we mostly walk and only have one car right now), made our lanai a balcony above so the roof is not solid, and added the porch.

So when I first designed our home, we were told the garage had to be 15' back from the front of the house if the door was on the same side as the garage. So we put it 15' back. What we missed was that it also had to be 25' back from the lot line. If I did that, DH would have lost his study or had to move it upstairs which he didn't want to do. So because of zoning we had to move our front door to the other street. And of course that changed lots of things within the house; mostly for the better. :)

You keep mentioning "designer", are you interviewing architects? You know, those professionals that are educated, trained, experienced, and licensed to design buildings.

While "designers" may be relatively inexpensive, they often tend to be "drafters" who simply use a CAD system to draft whatever you give them. Few designers are capable of digesting your conversation and sketches to come up with original creative options to consider beyond what you have already considered. Designers/drafters are in business to simply produce a measured drawing of what they are given. While there may be some notable exceptions, designers/drafters are there to simply give you a drawing with dimensions on it. If that fits your needs, or anyone else's needs, then you are in the right place. On the other hand, if you want someone whose creative and business experience in architecture exceeds that of most consumers you will want to hire an architect as a professional, in the same way you would go to a physician, attorney, accountant, etc., when you have a serious need. Civil engineers possess a great deal of professional expertise in their given field. That field is not architecture, even if the civil engineer specializes in structural engineering. For most of us, financing and building a custom home is the single largest expense in our lifetime. The old saying "you get what you pay for" holds true.

Exactly what Virgil said.

If you get what you pay for holds true, then the free advice given on this forum would be worth nothing.

Send me a penny. Make that two pennies, my advice was good.

This project is challenging even for a skilled architect.

JJ,

My suggestion would be to reconsider and place the secondary bedrooms upstairs.

If that is not possible, and given the circumstances, I suggest you to bump out the garage half the way (about 12'). This is a subdivision lot. Most subdivision houses are like that and it is more important the way you live everyday than the way a garage will look. This will avoid the tunnel you have from foyer to great room.

I'd place the classroom where you have the casual dining so the kids have easy access to some backyard recreation, chances are you will spend more time there than in the kitchen - this will place kitchen closer to garage.

Some of my most challenging projects are when a client comes with a preconceived floor plan; especially when the husband and wife don't agree. Wait a minute . . . .

If you get what you pay for holds true, then the free advice given on this forum would be worth nothing.

Huhh?? Everytime I post advice here, Houzz sends me $100.

Dang, I only get $1.98. Gotta get a better agent.

I knew I should have read that fine print!

I appreciate a sense of humor, that's worth something. But clearly, obviously, just paying more for something doesn't mean it's better. Lots of people successfully do their own taxes, not everyone requires a CPA and if there were a forum thread on taxes and some posters responded to every question with "you should hire a CPA" it would get old pretty fast too (and I know others feel the same way).

Hey omelet...who said my advice here had any value?!?! I just said I got a $100 for it!!

Ok, all seriousness aside, you're entirely correct about value vs. cost.

Omelet you bring up a good point regarding taxes. However tax programs nowadays are easy for the average person to use. They start by asking your name, SS number and what that final number is on your W-2, 1099, etc. Then the computer figures it all out for you.

Good design is not like plugging numbers into a computer and designing a home is even less so because it requires you to think in 3d on a 2d surface. Good design requires thinking outside the box, something that you shouldn't need with a tax program. Where most people will connect dot A to dot B and then dot C, a good architect or designer will start with dot A and connect it to dot H, then dot K before coming back to dot B.

An excellent example is the following:

This is Picasso's famous bull made from a bicycle seat and bicycle handlebars. Most of us would look at the seat and think bicycle seat. Same with the handlebars. It was because Picasso could think outside the box that he was able to see the possibilities of attaching one to the other and creating a sculpture of a bull.

A creative architect will be able to see possibilities most of us wouldn't have thought of.

I thought of using that in my promotions, "I see things that aren't there."

I will admit that a lot of my comments are along the lines of "hire a local architect", but when I see a lot of things wrong with a design and I haven't been given enough information to make a worthy suggestion, I default to the best advice I can.

I thought of using that in my promotions, "I see things that aren't there."

As long as you don't use the line, "I see dead people."

That would be reserved for a mortician.

1) Having grown up in the house with stairs:

• It is totally possible to have comfortable and not expensive heating/cooling on both floors.
• Because you use your stairs daily, you immediately get into and stay in good enough shape to use your stairs every day. They do not feel like a major effort to use ever. I now live in a place without stairs, and I notice when I go back to my childhood home (where my parents still live), the stairs feel to me like a lot more work than ever did when I was living there. My septuagenarian parents still pop up and down those stairs with no issue at all because they use them every day. I think, after a couple months of living in a two story home, you will not ever feel as if the stairs are too much at the end of a tiring day. You seriously won't even think about your stairs.
• Why not leave a natural spot where you could install an elevator in future years? If this does indeed become your forever home as you are hoping, install the elevator if you ever become infirm enough to need it.
• If you do leave a spot for the elevator, then your master could just as easily be upstairs with the kids' bedrooms for now. It's nice (quieter, more private, safer) to have the bedrooms both farther from the living areas and from the ground floor/street. It also can afford you some better views from the master if that room is on higher floor.
• If that alleviates all your concerns about a second story, a second story would really help you out here. Laying out your first floor to your satisfaction will be much, much easier when you aren't trying to fit so much into it, AND you'll get a bigger yard.

2) If your goal is to have more family time and less TV time, having a separate TV room means people will go into that separate room to watch TV and not spend time with family. A dark room away from the noise of the family is the best kind of room if all you want to do is watch TV, be completely absorbed by the TV, and not interact with the family. A separate TV room also makes it more difficult for someone elsewhere (a parent) to monitor what is being watched and for how long. Especially once the kids are older and occupying themselves more independently in the house, you will randomly discover them in the TV room all the time.

Honestly, if instead you have a small TV placed awkwardly in the great room so the TV viewing experience is never awesome, quiet, or private, and you have strong rules about when the TV can be watched and enforce them (which you'll be able to do easily because in a more-frequented area, you can more easily keep an eye on things), less TV-watching and less away-from-family time will happen.

You set up a proper theater in your home when you are a TV enthusiast, not a TV avoider.

I know this from experience. My husband wishes he had a perfectly dark, silent room away from all of us where he could watch his choice of surround sound bluray movies and TV shows on a giant screen and not have to ever be disturbed by all our noise and activity. Instead, we have the TV in our open layout living room where all the kitchen noise, windows, and family hubbub ruins his viewing experience all the time. But then he is forced to help me with dinner, feed the cat, put on a show we both like, hang out with me, etc. He complains and shushes me a lot, but if he had his desired movie room, I'd never see him again!

Given your desires, you might be best if you have no theater room AND no TV in the living room. Instead, just put a TV in the master bedroom so you and your husband are the only people in the house who can watch TV.

3) Can you describe how you intend to use the computer room? Is it just a home office? Or is it meant to be used as part of the homeschooling? Seems as if it could be combined with something else.

This post reminds me of one of those plastic jigsaw puzzles where you slide small boxes around.

http://bogieworks.blogs.com/treppenwitz/images/img_4005.jpg

I think the advice is pointing to not focus on the floor plan at this point. Create a list of your needs/desires/constraints, agree with your husband on those, then start to test the representative conceptual floor plans you have found/drawn against those needs. That should get you to a short stack of plans that you can assess what you like and do not like about them. You will then be in the best position to gain insights and comments on specific aspects of your desired outcome.

I started to read through all the above posts and match the comments to the various posted floor plans, but it was too confusing.

If your kids are young enough that they haven't even started homeschooling yet, I think it would be a challenge to dictate now exactly how and where you plan to go about homeschooling. You really have no idea whether you will prefer a dedicated classroom or to work at the kitchen table. In your situation I would plan to use a bedroom as your "classroom" so that the space isn't wasted if you decide to go another route.

Also, building a house on one level for aging in place when you still have preschoolers in the house seems like you are creating a house that might work well when you are 70 and have no children at home rather than right NOW and for the next 20 years. That seems awfully short sighted. A main floor master and laundry room would seem sufficient. I can tell you from experience now that I have older children sometimes it's nice to have a bit of space between the our room and their bedrooms. My 2 boys are in the finished basement and as soon as I can convince DD that the basement isn't scary I'd love to move her down there so she isn't right next door.

We don't have a TV in our main living room but we do have a big screen hooked to an HD projector and TiVo in our basement family room (another plus to multi-level). On our main level we play games, read, play piano and strings, and chat. Downstairs we have our home theatre. That space you are trying to carve out in the middle of your family room does not work.

There are far more skilled people than me commenting on this thread but I think you are really in over your head and need an architect, NOT a designer.