Its really late to be seeding for your region. Maybe just see what happens with the rye, and re evaluate the situation in spring. You may have to work the soil some more in the spring, and there may be some weeds to kill before planting with Tall fescue. Scotts usually puts out pretty good products , so the Southern gold will probably work for you.

Should I be worried about all the small rocks. I know the big ones need to go, but what about all the small rocks. Will grass still grow? I mean there is dirt, but since it was new construction its not the greatest soil, I just don't have $1000 plus to bring in sifted soil and then I need to get it spread. This is a one man game, my kids are 5 and 3 so no help there.

While you might just squeak through with the fescue germination, winter survival (and summer survival in 2016) will suffer a bit. But that's true of the rye as well, so personally, since you're going to start the lawn regardless of what happens, I'd say add some fescue if you want.

Just don't spend a fortune on the seed. There's a very high probability that you're going to need to reseed somewhat to a lot next fall.

Tell the 5 and 3 year old that the rocks are magical, but only if put in this big bucket right here... :-)

Remove the large rocks, of course. Then prioritize and get rid of as many of the smaller rocks as you can, by largest size first. How small is small does depend on my answer as to how far to go. Pebbles aren't an issue. Rocks up to an inch are survivable if you have to, but I hate the things and removed all of them that I could. Larger rocks should be removed, no question.

Thank you so much for the advice! My kids will be collecting rock this afternoon!! I'll keep this thread going, I'm sure I'll have some questions over the next day or so.

Update:. I raked out about 4 full wheelbarrow loads of rocks! There are probably 20 more loads, but there are so many rocks, I felt like I was changing the grade, so I stopped. I was able to grab sound sand from a nearby lot and put a little down to help with the rocks I removed. I then spread a large bag of Southern Gold on setting 9 1/2 on Scott's Broadcast spreader. I"m thinking I should go over it again, but I only bought one bag and couldn't get back to the store yesterday. I then ran my irrigation for 10 minutes per zone and did see a little pooling of water. I read that seeds need to be kept moist, so I set my irrigation to run 6 times today. 4am, 7am, 9am, 11am, 1pm, 3pm, but I set it for 3 minutes per zone. I figured that would keep the ground moist but not flood. Does that watering schedule sound good? Should I wait a few days and then put down more seed? I was going to do a starter fertilizer when i first spot some seedlings? All that sound good? Anything else I should be doing? Mid 60s today and it was 58 when I woke up at 5am. I'm in the military so an early riser. Thanks

Why aren't the landscapers fixing the yard to your satisfaction? If the landscaping is supposed to be done as part of your building contract, it seems they should have removed the rocks with their equipment, fixed the grade, and seeded or sodded as agreed upon. They have seeded with rye, which considering it's almost November, is about the only thing that may have a chance. Rye, however, won't make through a Virginia summer unless you're in the mountains. But it will prevent erosion until you can do a permanent lawn. You have now put down fescue on top of the rye. In a more normal seeding time, putting down all that seed would lead to an overcrowding problem. It probably won't now because most won't come up as soil temperatures are likely too low for good germination.. But there is no point in putting even more seed down now. My advice is live with whatever grows until next August. Then plan to renovate with your chosen seed in late August or very early September. If you're going to do starter fertilizer, do it soon as the rye could germinate soon and you don't want to be walking around on the seeded area when the seed is germinating. As for the watering, just keep the ground moist. This time of year the morning dew usually keeps the ground moist until mid day.

4! Wheelbarrows! Did they not rake the property, because they sure should have! I thought you meant a standard property of rocks...I got probably five buckets full (well, as full as I could easily carry).

Keep an eye out for small sections of the lawn that mysteriously fade out quickly between rainfalls, or where the grass just doesn't seem to do very well. Probe with a long-handled screwdriver, bets are that you'll find a larger rock under there, relatively (less than 4") close to the surface. Remove those as you find them if you can.

>>I set my irrigation to run 6 times today. 4am, 7am, 9am, 11am, 1pm, 3pm, but I set it for 3 minutes per zone. I figured that would keep the ground moist but not flood. Does that watering schedule sound good?

That's fine, but overkill. Three times per day is usually entirely adequate, for periods of about 5-15 minutes (depending on how much your system waters) per zone. But if you'd rather stay at six times per day, more power to you.

>>Should I wait a few days and then put down more seed?

Seed should go all at once. You don't want to be trundling around on the seed bed once the seeds start dropping their embryonic roots because they tear out easily and that usually kills the sprout.

What was the pounds per thousand square feet you seeded at? And exactly what's the mix on the Southern Gold--seeding rates differ depending on the grass type mix?

>>I was going to do a starter fertilizer when i first spot some seedlings?

See above. If you need it (and you may not), it's best applied at seeding time. If not, wait a month for the roots to develop. At that point, I wouldn't recommend starter fertilizer due to the nearness of ground freeze, so I'd probably winterize at the correct time instead. The phosphorus from starter doesn't penetrate quickly and has a greater tendency to get lost over winter...which is a waste, as well as environmentally awful.

So the landscaping and grading has been a huge issue. In the contract it only talks about sod in the front yard, grading and seeding the back. Unfortunately the contract or city code doesn't discuss the type of ground that can be left behind. They are not required to bring in sifted soil, or remove all debris from the dirt unless it won't pass grading. Very crappy in my opinion but even the city said its vague. So I'm left with a bunch of crap, literally! Rocks, the irigation guy found tree trunks, bricks, orange nylon fencing, etc.. that was buried.

The only reason I was doing more waterings throughout the day but only 3-5 minutes each, was due to some areas where I get standing water. It's mainly where two sprinklers overlap.

I think it is more normal for the contractor to put in a better landscape. We don't see issues like that much on this forum.

Your idea of bringing in a lot more sifted soil hit me wrong at first, because you would be changing the drainage that the contractor's crew left you with. But if you have that many rocks to remove, you might need at least 5 wheelbarrows full to go back in. Contractors always (!) get the drainage correct and anytime you come in with more soil, that screws up the drainage. At least that's how it usually works. Drainage is supposed to be foremost on their mind. If they don't get anything else right, they should get that, so basically, leave it alone when they drive away. In your case, take note of the low spots, because those can be fixed later after the grass is mature.

How do I fix the low spots once the grass is mature? Also I'm not sure if it's a low spot or my irrigation set up. I have heads in the back that spray a big area, but the two in each corner overlap a little. Where they overlap it gets more water, so if that zone is on for 10 minutes, that one spot gets 20 minutes of water. Not really 20 because they aren't fixed on that area, so I should say double the rest of the surface area. That occurs in 2-3 spots, so I'll see a few puddles there and also small puddles right by the heads themselves. Is that normal or do I need to have my irrigation guy come back?

By the edges and along the fence is worse due to the clay deposits pulled up during the fencing. Any thoughts on the pictures? If it's really bad, fire away with suggestions

Shouldn't have puddles. Also if the contractor graded per contract, why is there low spots to fix? It should be graded if it was in the contract. If you have a small low spot , what I did was spread some soil sifted through a small rake over the grass to avoid smothering it. Repeat in a week or so after watering compacts it a bit.

October 27th the seed and starter fertilizer went down. Here is what it looks like now.

You're on day 9 post seeding? How's the weather been, temperature-wise? Cooler weather will slow sprouting considerably.

Personally, I'd wait until at least day 14 at the absolute earliest to add any more seed--realizing that the second seeding will have a lower survival probability than the first did due to the date getting later fast.

Never add lime to a soil without a soil test, it's too easy to use the wrong kind of lime (there are two common ones plus several less common types, and each has their uses), or the wrong amount (amounts will range from 4 to 30 pounds per thousand depending on soil capacity, calcium/magnesium balance, and type of lime used).

Always, always have a soil test from Logan Labs or UMass in hand and read by somebody who knows what they're doing before applying limestone! A mistake here can haunt you for years.

My guess on the average weather is lmid 60s. No leave for work around 5:30am and once or twice it was high 40s. We also had a few days of mid 70s and it even hit 80, but average is like I said, mid 60s. The 10 day forecasts looks to be more of the same. I see a few days in in the 60s and some in the 70s. I was going to put down some more seed and someone told me I could spread peat moss with a broadcast spreader to help keep soil warmer. So maybe I'll wait until next week and do that?

Seed planted in late October may or may not come up. Seed planted in November has little chance. You could try planting some in mid to late February or early March, preferably before a snow, which would then germinate later in the spring. For the seed already planted, I would stay off the area as much as possible. Fescue usually takes 1-2 weeks to germinate in optimal conditions. In less optimal conditions (like yours), it could take 2-3 weeks if it happens at all.

Can you explain why the month matters, and not the weather? Also why are my conditions not optimal? From everything I read, it is all about temperature (air and soil), keeping area moist, sunlight, etc.. Your in Richmond, so we have close to the same temps, and its been pretty warm. Today its rainy but 72, tomorrow its going to be sunny and 81. We have had a few days of high 50s to low 60s, and a few overnights in the high 40s, but for the most part the weather has been pretty good. I'm just wondering why the months matter?

Normal climate. While November can certainly be warm, it's a lot less less likely than September. So planting late is a far greater risk than planting at the proper time. Your weather has a greater chance of turning rather chilly pretty fast. Plus if it flips colder than average, that temperature will be far colder than it was in September.

Reduced sunlight has an impact as well--today is the first day of solar winter. Sprouting grasses are exposed to less solar energy than September, and have less energy to grow on. That's a double hitter, as well. The solar angle is lower, so the sun is more diluted per square meter, and the days are much shorter.

ok got it, it just seemed like Becky was saying October/November regardless of the actual weather in those months. I'm sure there have been Octobers that were a lot colder then this year, so maybe I lucked out a little. I don't want to be stuck with dirt, but it seems like laying down another bag of seed next week would be a waste of money. If I lay down seed, fertilizer, and peat moss on top, and they weather stays in the mid 50s to mid 60s, will I have a 50% shot at filling in the lawn?

It kind of depends. I'm in eastern Pennsylvania. If I did that here, now, my chance at filling the lawn would be close to zero. Temperatures are about to tumble too cold to sprout seed for the foreseeable future, although I might get some sprout. Particularly in sun-warmed areas that are protected from wind.

That sprout has far less time to develop roots and structure, so a very cold or dry or otherwise difficult winter will reduce survival. On the other side of the year, summer survival will also be lower as it missed most of fall to develop root systems.

The seed you planted may come up. I overseeded in mid September and in mid October there were some areas that were thin so I planted some more seed in those areas. The October seed took over two weeks to germinate and it is growing very slowly. The September grass looks well established and has been cut a number of times. The October grass is thin and short. But at least it's there. If November stays moderate maybe it can grow a bit. The best chance for you for grass this fall is the grass you've already planted, not for seed next week which would not germinate until Thanksgiving, if then. The seed is already on the ground. Walking around to spread more seed, fertilizer, peat moss could damage a seedling just trying to establish a root. Let it germinate before walking around on it if possible.

Ok thanks, I'm just going to wait and see! When do I cut it? Here is what it looks like? Also should I mulch or bag it?

If it gets to 3 inches this fall, you could cut it to 2 or 2.5. It may be that you don't cut it until next spring. Next year cut it longer, like 3 or 4 inches. Leave the clippings on the lawn. It looks like you have good coverage over the area.

Hold any seed until just before your first snowfall (or February if you don't get a good solid snow this year). You don't want a surprise warm snap that germinates it and then turns cold, killing the sprouts.

Cut as necessary, and you can mulch your leaves into the soil if you want--but on a very young lawn, I wouldn't let the leaf mass get too heavy.

If you haven't fed, feed when growth stops but the grass is still green. That's usually around Thanksgiving, but it varies a lot.