This is the unwanted grass

A picture of the clumps

Close up of the unwanted grass

Better focus

This is what much of my lawn looks like - the top of the picture is a uniform grass, then there are some bare patches, then on the bottom right of the picture is the thick undesirable grass

Another angle of the unwanted grass - what is this stuff?

Tiemco or someone will be able to help you id the weed. As for the rest of the grass, it looks dry. How long are you watering when you water?

How was it being watered before you came along and started watering once a week? If it had been watered daily, for example, you will need to wean it off the daily watering. This is something you cannot change cold turkey. You might need to start out with watering every other day 1/3 inch. Then start to back off on the frequency and extend the amount. You'll need to measure your sprinkler using a cat food or tuna can. Time how long it takes to fill the can. I was shocked to find that mine took 8 hours. I thought it was more like 3 hours. Others report they can fill a can in 20 minutes. It all depends on your system and the water pressure. 1 inch is the target to start. Then see if you need to go more or less. I found I can go with much less most of the time. I only need to approach 1 inch per week during the worst droughts. I have a second home at the edge of the Texas desert. I have let the grass grow up to 32 inches high in parts. It is an experiment to see how long the tall grass can go without any water. Turns out some of that grass has never been irrigated since October. We've had some well timed rains, but it has been several months since we had any real precip. Point is tall grass is crucial to cutting back on watering. Every lawn will have different requirements and even within the lawn, there will be differences between deep shade and full sun.

Weed looks like K-31 tall fescue, although there are other grassy weeds that can look like that too like goose grass. There are several grassy weed identifiers on the internet, do some searching, you'll probably figure it out. The problem with grassy weeds is most herbicides don't do much good, except Tenacity in some cases.

I think your main problem is lack of water, and soil condition. A soil test is definitely in order, and I would apply shampoo with a hose end sprayer (3 oz per 1000 setting, apply to drench soil. I use VO5 or white rain) then give the yard a good watering. A top dressing of compost might be in order as well. If you want your lawn to be one consistent grass, you will probably have to kill everything and start over at some point in the future.

Hey, this is great advice. K-31 seems very similar (if not exactly) to what I have growing in random patches throughout my lawn. I haven't read anything about using shampoo while drenching, though.

I probably shouldn't have - but last weekend I used Scott's Turf Builder with Crabgrass Preventer (did this before I started to read the forums). I have been watering about 1/2 an inch twice the past week and the grass HAS been getting greener. I also bought a de-thatch rake and realize how much work will be needed in the fall :)

In regards to soil testing, I think it's a great idea. What is the best way to go about this? I saw a soil test kit at Lowe's, but wasn't sure if it was the best route to go. Thanks again, guys - you're helping me a ton.

Soil test kit at Lowe's = worst way to go. Logan Labs (www.loganlabs.com) is what I recommend. $20 basic soil test. That fertilizer and crabgrass preventer wasn't that bad of an idea, maybe a bit late, but not really anything to worry about.

The shampoo thing is really easy, it really helps get water into the soil, and loosens things up a bit. I like to dilute the shampoo 1:1 with water, and use a higher application rate, but it's really not an exact application like fertilizers and herbicides, so don't worry too much about how much you put down. A side effect is your lawn will smell great. Use the cheap stuff, the more basic the better. Again, VO5 basic shampoo, White Rain, Johnson's baby, they all do the same thing. Stay away from ones that aren't clear. Buy a good amount of shampoo, it goes pretty quick.

Agree with tiemco.

What the shampoo does is soften the soil and allows the moisture to penetrate deeper for deeper drenching every time you water. Then that moisture remains in the soil longer because the deeper moisture is not subject to the evaporative heat at the surface.

Dethatching is not a normal thing. It is usually caused by frequent watering and frequent fertilizing with fast acting fertilizers. This practice brings the roots to the surface and creates a lot of fast growth that might die quickly before it even gets mowed. Normal lawns are not thatchy. If you do something simple like spray occasionally with molasses, then the bacteria in the soil will decompose the thatch and you won't have to break your back. Let the microbes break their backs.

One more thing. You can post as many pictures as you want in one message.

I'm planning on doing a soil test next week. Would it make a difference if I shampooed the grass before, or would it make sense to do it after? Same with molasses...

I have a feeling I'm going to want to re-do my whole lawn, roughly 8,000 sq feet, in the Fall. I patched up an area in my backyard using Scotts EZ seed, and it's a deep, dark green color - which I love.... but there's no way I'm going to use EZ seed for my whole lawn when it's 99.9% filler :)

Again, I live in Indianapolis with plenty of sun for 95% of my lawn - I have no kids and want the best looking lawn in the neighborhood - any suggestions on a specific grass blend/mix?

If I decide to do a total lawn re-do this Fall, am I wasting my time by spot treating weeds and entertaining the idea of shampooing and conditioning the lawn in the meantime?

The shampoo and molasses shouldn't affect your soil test results.

If you want the best looking lawn I would go all Kentucky bluegrass. A blend of three cultivars is what is typically used, and you won't find any of the top rated seeds in any big box store.

You definitely wouldn't be wasting your time improving you soil, in fact that is exactly what you should be doing. You are a little late to the party for a lawn renovation, and the sooner you have you soil test results the sooner you can get you soil in shape for a reno. If your test looks really bad it might be prudent to hold off till next year for a reno, but that's up to you.

Great... I'll plan on getting the soil in good shape in the meantime - to be safe, I'll hold off until after I receive the soil results. I'm getting married on September 1st, and after a week-long honeymoon, prepping and seeding a new lawn will be a good project for when I return :)

Here are the two grass seeds that I'm considering:
Premium Sod Blend
Showplace Mix

If I remember right, the Sod Blend (all KBG) is much more expensive; however, it seems that you get what you pay for, no?

In the seed world, you don't always get what you pay for. Those two blends/mixes you are considering are not the best options. The Premium Sod Blend is almost 100% compact midnight cultivars. What does that mean you ask? Well KBG is subdivided into different subgroups. One of those groups is the compact midnight group. The cultivars in that group all produce fine turf, very dark green in color, but they are all very similar genetically. While this can give you a nice consistent lawn, it also gives you a lawn that has the same genetic weaknesses. Today's KBG is much more disease resistant that say twenty years ago, but there is still the risk of large stand loss due to certain diseases. If you had a lot of experience with lawn care, it might be feasible to use that blend, or even just one very strong cultivar, but most people would be better off with a blend using 3 or more cultivars of different subgroups. By convention most people use equal parts of a compact midnight, compact America, and a compact. It can get a bit overwhelming, but there are certain "go to" cultivars that most people use with great success. The showplace mix has perennial rye in it, which has a very different growth rate than KBG, and establishes very fast, and can limit KBG to an extent. This can give you a lawn that looks good right after mowing, but shaggy in a few days. In my opinion, rye and KBG belong together in certain situations and a home lawn isn't one of them.

I agree with tiemco. As far as the comment on posting more than one picture in a post I havnt figured that one out my computer only lets me hit the browse button once then locks it after 1st use.

Soooo helpful, Tiemco - I would have had no idea about the different cultivars for KBG. Now it makes complete sense to me to keep out perennial rye. I'll have to do more research on KBG blends with different sub categories. What are some specific brands of blends you recommend?

Kubota - I could only choose one file as well. When I try to upload a second one, it just replaces the first picture. Oh well...

There are NOT a lot of blends out there that I would recommend, as most blends are created using older mediocre cultivars or whatever the seed seller has on hand. The blend you posted earlier is actually composed of very good compact midnights, it's just that that's all there is. Most people that want the best cultivars in their blend buy seeds from independent seed sellers, and mix their own if they need to. In order to determine the best performing cultivars, the best resource is the NTEP trials. You can find the results at www.ntep.org, or more specifically the pdf file is http://www.ntep.org/data/kb05/kb05_11-10f/kb05_11-10f.pdf. There's a lot of data there, but if you pick through it you can get what you need. Focus on the IN site, as well as most of the north central region. Here are a few things to know about KBG that you can find on the NTEP. Most of the compact midnights perform very similarly. They are similar in color, and performance. I think the main differences you will find is in areas like disease tolerance, heat tolerance, drought tolerance, etc., which are tested for by NTEP. Midnight is one of the mother of all the compact midnights, but it still performs very well. There are some newer ones that do better in certain areas like Nuchicago, and Granite which is supposed to have great disease tolerance. For a compact America the go to cultivar is Prosperity. It is very dark, and matches the midnights quite well. For a compact, Bewitched is the favorite, but Blueberry is a close second. For a pretty good list of KBG and what classification they fall into this list is good, and fairly complete http://www.sroseed.com/IdeasInPlay/PDF_articles/KentBlueClass.pdf (Prosperity has been reclassified as a compact America since this list was produced). Seed producers also have pdf files that describe their cultivars, but most of these are full of glowing praise, so it's hard to tell if they are accurate. Since you have full sun most KBG will do well in your lawn if the soil is good, and you care for it properly.

A lawn master named morpheuspa is caring for two lawns - his and his mother's. His is all improved Elite cultivars. His mother's is contractor grade. The mother's lawn is gorgeous due to his care. I believe he has demonstrated that even contractor grade Kentucky bluegrass can be the best lawn on the block if you get the soil tuned up and follow proper care. In fact here is a pic of his mother's lawn...

{{gwi:100603}}

If you want the best lawn in the neighborhood, then the Logan Labs soil test is necessary. New seed may not be necessary. I would see what you can accomplish this summer and, about mid-August, decide whether you need different grass. Renovating is a lot of work followed by a lot of stress waiting for the seed to come in. Then you are faced with a 3-year wait as the grass plants mature. If you already have mature grass, I would just make the very best of it first before jumping into the pool of renovation.

But also necessary is mastering the basics of lawn care as follows...

Basics of Lawn Care

After reading numerous books and magazines on lawn care, caring for lawns at seven houses in my life, and reading numerous forums where real people write in to discuss their successes and failures, I have decided to side with the real people and dispense with the book and magazine authors. I don't know what star their planet rotates around but it's not mine. With that in mind, here is the collected wisdom of the Internet savvy homeowners and lawn care professionals summarized in a few words. If you follow the advice here you will have conquered at least 50% of all lawn problems. Once you have these three elements mastered, then you can worry about weeds (if you have any), dog spots, and striping your lawn. But if you are not doing these three things, they will be the first three things suggested for you to correct.

Watering
Water deeply and infrequently. Deeply means at least an inch in every zone, all at once. Infrequently means monthly during the cool months and no more than weekly during the hottest part of summer. Do not spread this out and water for 10 minutes every day. If your grass looks dry before the month/week is up, water longer next time. If that does not work, then you might have to water more than once per week during the summer's hottest period. Deep watering grows deep, drought resistant roots. Infrequent watering allows the top layer of soil to dry completely which kills off many shallow rooted weeds.

You will have to learn to judge when to water your own lawn. If you live in Las Vegas your watering will be different than if you live in Vermont. Adjust your watering to your type of grass, humidity, wind, and soil type. It is worth noting that this technique is used successfully by professionals in Phoenix, so...just sayin.' The other factors make a difference. If you normally water 1 inch per week and you get 1/2 inch of rain, then adjust and water only 1/2 inch that week.

Mowing
Every week mulch mow at the highest setting on your mower. Most grasses are the most dense when mowed tall. However, bermuda, centipede, and bent grasses will become the most dense when they are mowed at the lowest setting on your mower. In fact there are special mowers that can mow these grasses down to 1/16 inch. Dense grass shades out weeds, keeps the soil cooler, and uses less water than thin grass. Tall grass can feed the deep roots you developed in #1 above. Tall grass does not grow faster than short grass nor does it look shaggy sooner. Once all your grass is at the same height, tall grass just looks plush.

Fertilizing
Fertilize regularly. I fertilize 5 times per year using organic fertilizer. Which fertilizer you use is much less important than numbers 1 and 2 above. Follow the directions on the bag and do not overdo it. Too little is better than too much. At this point you do not have to worry about weed and feed products - remember at this point you are just trying to grow grass, not perfect it. Besides once you are doing these three things correctly, your weed problems should go away without herbicide.

It is too late to fertilize with chemical fertilizers this summer; however, you can still fertilize with organics all summer long. You can start with organics before you get your soil test back - you will always have a nitrogen deficiency. Between the basic lawn care (water and mowing), organic ferts, and the corrections to micro nutrients prescribed by the soil test, your lawn should look amazing by August.

You can introduce yourself to organic lawn care by applying alfalfa pellets (rabbit chow) at a rate of 20 pounds per 1,000 square feet. No, you won't be overrun by rabbits. They only eat rabbit food when confined and fed nothing else. Get the alfalfa pellets at any feed store. Check prices between rabbit chow and alfalfa pellets. They are the same product but sometimes there is a difference from brown bag to brown bag. Spray the soap and molasses and you are officially on your way.

I'm very impressed with the amount of help and information you both are providing to me. Obviously, if I could re-seed without killing and redoing the whole lawn, that would be ideal. My only concern would be, if I overseed with the 3 cultivars of KBG in the Fall, how would that look? Maybe it would make the most sense to use roundup on only the patches of the K31 tall fescue, seed these areas, and then leave the rest of the lawn as is and only overseed there... Would it look silly if I overseeded with a dark green, KBG seed while still keeping the current grass in? Just don't want it to look peppered with lighter grass and have to eventually re-do the lawn to keep in uniform in color and texture. I hope I'm explaining this right... The nice thing is, I don't have kids yet, so I have the time to devote to improving my lawn now :)

Another question I thought of - is there a preferred or recommended % of blend between Compact, Compact America, and Compact Midnight? Would it make most sense to do 33.3% of each, or 50/25/25, 60/20/20, etc.? You've just opened my eyes to the world of lawn seeds lol

I was assuming you already had a Kentucky bluegrass lawn. If you do, then you don't need to reseed. KBG spreads to fill in bare areas. Fescue type grasses do not spread that fast and need to be reseeded in the fall to clear up spots like you are about to have.

Yes, just spot spray the weed areas. You might even try Grass-B-Gone. Tiemco could comment on that.

Yes if you don't have the same grass seed it will look silly. I'm confident that once you get the soil micronutrients tuned up, your grass color will be fine. Do you see a problem with the color of the grass in the picture I posted?

You haven't even scratched the surface yet. You'll want to consider cultivars that are close in color and blade. Then you'll be considering each of those cultivars ability to resist certain diseases, shade tolerance, drought tolerance, etc.

dchall - ha! no, the color of that lawn is awesome. I'm just not sure if I currently have KBG or not. If KBG easily grows and can take over current grass, it may not be a bad idea. Would you suggest Grass-B-Gone over Round Up?

Grass1950 - I know, I have so much to learn. My mind started spinning when looking at the NTEP, but I think I'm starting to understand it.

So, I shampooed my lawn today. 15 oz of VO5 shampoo and 15oz of water, sprayed at 1oz/gallon with my Ortho hose end sprayer. 1/2 my lawn is sprayed with molasses, but then I ran out :)