Persil was not available in Canada for awhile. They said something about packaging issues. I see it is now back in stock at this vacuum seller.

http://www.mchardyvac.com/brands/Persil.html

I did see over on AW awhile ago..I think right before US Persil hit the market that US Miele dealers wernt getting any new stock of German Persil, but whatever was going on than resolved itself, so I guess if this is a newer issue only time will tell.

I've done 4 loads now with the Somat and I'm ready to post my opinion, first load came out perfect, clean and sparkly and no rinse aid, I have no rinse aid dispenser. But it was only about a half load and nothing too complicated, no baked on, stuck on and no grease.

Next 3 loads sparkled, but I found pieces of debris here and there on bottom and top racks, enough that I had to run the load a second time once, but it was the silverware that suffered the most. I had been using Mich's recipe for several weeks and only found something with a bit stuck on it a couple times. I'm sure Somat is probably an amazing product for newer D/W'ers with their longer wash cycles, but mine is 21YO and although it uses more water than the newer ones it also has a much shorter wash time. And that means I need Chlorine Bleach. So I will be sticking with Mich's recipe from now on. I enjoyed trying this detergent and have no regrets buying it, but my old D/W just wasn't compatable with it. Lol

How long does the main wash last and does it start with very hot water from the get go?

I never actually timed it but I will this morning and let you know Whirlpool. But I do run the hot water at the sink to bleed out the cold just before it fills with prewash and just before it fills for main wash, problem is my tap hot has been comming out at 128deg f...so I dump in about a gallon of near boiling water at the start of the wash cycle...I've tested the temp in the D/W during wash after dumping water in and its usually around 135-137. I should probably turn the water tank up some but its electric and really racks the bill up.

Mich, yes I'm going to wrap the Somat good and put it in the detergent closet, its away from all water sources. Ya I plan on getting a new D/W after the Queens are paid off..I don't want to leave this earth and leave Amiee with this D/W..yes I love it but she's gonna need a new one that all the nuences have been worked out. I post D/W times later..Thank you.

Whirlpool, as you can see from the pic ill send in next, I don't actually have a marked prewash cycle, I call the Normal Wash cycle my prewash, it does fill with hot tap as long as I bleed the hot water line at the sink, this cycle fills, washes 8 minutes, drains and goes into the Light wash cycle, fills, washes 15 minutes, drains...I always thought it strange that Normal wash has such a smaller wash time compared to Light wash.

I do wish there was a way to bypass the door lock, I'd love to see what's actually going on in there, lol

Sorry to go slightly off-track, but this thread got me to thinking. What's the age cut off on dishwashers for old versus new? Mine is a 2008 Whirlpool model. Here's the chart that came with it on dosing. However, with my hard water, it's pretty easy to dose - fill up the cups! So, based on the chart below, mine holds 3 Tbls (45ml) in the Main and a little over 2 Tbls (35ml) in the pre-wash.

Light Wash on the dial is just the Main Wash portion of your cycle. If you started it on Heavy or Pot/Pan whichever yours has, chances are the first wash would be longer, then a rinse between, then the Main Wash. Not sure how often you clean your machine but it might help to clean it out. Either use one of the products on the market OR start the machine, let it get to the 15 min wash, then open it and add 2 cups white vinegar. Let complete cycle--you can skip the dry for this. That way if you have any kind of build-up that the STPP hasn't gotten out yet like on the impeller(s) the vinegar will help with that(minerals).

Forgot to post the pic

Pretty clean for its age huh Sparky

There has never been any deposits build up, probably because of the soft water and using STPP.

Mich and I thought something was missing from the center top of spray arms but its just a cap cover

Your Light Wash starting position vs. Normal Wash just skips part of the timer sequence. Normal Wash runs two wash periods (first shorter, second longer) then the rinsing and drying. Light Wash skips the first wash period. You sure there's not another drain and fill (which would be a rinse after the 1st wash) about halfway between the Normal Wash and Light Wash positions?

There's a lot of room between Off and Normal Wash. Nothing happens when the timer is set anywhere in that space?

When running the Normal Wash selection, you can make that first fill either a prerinse (no detergent) or a prewash (with detergent).

The reason is asked about the initial temp of the main wash is that... you know, very hot water + enzymes = you know the rest. My Bosch washes for 25 minutes, which isn't terribly long either. However, it fills with cold water, dumps the detergent and then heats, so enzymes don't get cooked. The bleach in Somat products is boosted by Tead, which means it works even in 100 to 110F water.

Dadoes, i'll let you know that later, I have to watch and listen to be sure, but it will get run again tonight, I'm having a big dinner so it will be loaded.

Thank you Dadoes, and Alex.....dis you both think this machine looked clean as far as you can tell lol.

Pink: I wasn't suggesting yours was nasty, I was meaning underneath in the pump etc stuff can build up, grease etc. Mine looks clean also, never anything stuck in the arm holes but I still run the cleaner or vinegar through it ever so often just to make sure.

When you first turn your dial in the space with no writing, does your pump come on, or does it not start until you hit Normal? Some machines without Heavy/Pot/Pan on the dial still use the same timer as the next model up that has that cycle. This way if the pump starts yours might do a longer wash at the top of the dial then it will continue on down. Just something to try--that is if it starts up in that position.

I ve typed two posts here and they disappear

Dadoes no rinse between first and second wash cycles only a drain...first wash, drain only, than goes straight into second wash, than drain and rinse.

Sparky I was joking about the clean D/W, I know it can be dirty where I can't see..I've actually been thinking about trying to get into the drain and see what's in there lol. And I tried turning the knob one click at a time in that empty space before the first wash, nothing happens. Nope the pump doesn't come on until I turn it on the first wash cycle.

Since Somat isn't perfect for your dishwasher, I remembered a use I had for it some years ago: a heavy duty presoak. I had some greasy, greasy cleaning rags that I soaked in a bucket of warm water and a scoop of Somat overnight... next morning there was a layer of greasy sludge that Somat had released from the rags on the bottom of the bucket. 0_0

Then again... maybe it was just the phosphate in there. Hm...

Oh boy, well today I bought the lime green Cascade to try out!

I have recieved my order of Somat powder. The exact one that Mamapinky has above. I have a 5 year old Kenmore Elite. It is a higher efficiency, newer type washer, with water saving features. Typically I use the "pots and pans" setting with temp bust (145f), and sanitizing rinse. I have been unhappy with the cleaning results for the most part. I started using STPP a few years ago and cleaning improved. Now I have the Somat to try.

I watched Whirlpool's video using the Somat10 tabs. He had baked on stuff on a lot of his dishes and things came out very clean.

Can I expect to get similar results with the Somat1?

I am about to load the washer and start it on the settings listed above. Does the 145f disable the enzymes?

Do I fill both cups or can I get by with just filling the main wash cup? (I will fill both today)

I am willing to try other wash combos in the future. I don't think I am up for a lot of independent experimenting with the dishwasher though, so any ideas are welcome.

I never did figure out how much to use.

But...I have found for me The liquid gel Cascade with Chlorine Bleach in the lime green bottle...fill the dispenser stir in 1&1/4 teaspoons STPP is Magic for me, works better than anything else I've used. This is Mich's recipe.

Mamapinky, I have some of the green Cascade too, waiting for me to try with the STPP. Which BTW, I have now a new supply from Dafna. I got the replacement STPP and I don't see a difference in the dissolving rate or characteristics with either the old or the new. The new is a bit finer in texture though.

When using Somat In my Miele, on pots and pans, I fill the main cup to the 30cc mark and add about 10cc to the prewash cup. For normal loads I fill to the 20cc mark and may or may not put any in the prewash cup. I've found that I get the best results if I do not run hot water before I start the wash. It gives the enzymes a longer chance to work while the water is heating. I've used this powder for several years in the Miele and the Bosch before it, it's worth every penny. Haven't had any issues with etching both when I was adding salt and now that my water is naturally soft.

Well, maybe I won't try the bleeding of the hot water line, that I have always done, and that is recommended by Kenmore instructions.

The results were not any different than my use of cheap dishwasher powder and STPP. I will keep trying and see if the cold fill will help with the baked on food that doesn't want to come off. I had egg that I microwaved in a bowl, and a sauce that was baked in the oven. Both these items I typically have to prewash totally to get them clean before I put them into the washer. I didn't do that this time in the trial run, and they didn't come clean. Maybe its the dishwasher.

I don't think I have ever had a detergent that would remove microwaved egg from a bowl.

When I use powder, I typically add one tablespoon to the main wash and a teaspoon to the prewash

This is why I won't give up my 21 year old D/W it will clean anything ...I do wonder about enzyme detergent in some of your D/W'ers that have water temps above 140...generally with temps that high a Chlorine based detergent is a better choice since the enzymes become ineffective at 140.....by the way I've never microwaved an egg so I don't know about that, I'll have to try it one morning or lunch time soon for the boys and I'll let you know if the bowl comes clean.

Mamapinky, be sure to stir the egg, or the yoke might explode, LOL.

Am I the only one, who gets totally sick after eating microwaved eggs? I've tried it a couple of times, always huge regret.

I find a microwaved egg or 2 very convenient when I am leaving for work and I eat them in my car as I drive down the gravel roads to the main highway. I don't always eat breakfast like this, actually rarely, lol.

From what I have read and discovered, chlorine based DW detergents are best for dishwashers with a shorter main washes (10-15 mins), BUT require much hotter water for good cleaning (140+). Enzyme based DW detergents function best in dishwashers with long main washes, but cooler water (105-140). Not all enzymes die over 140 degrees, either. Euro dishwashers can heat main washes to up 165-170, and those detergents contain enzymes for sure. Commercial dishwashers and their detergents wash at 160, and today use enzymes because it is more environmentally friendly than bleachy ones. I do not think I would sweat killing off enzymes in laundry or dishwashers in water over 140.

Side note, microwaved eggs sound pretty ewwww to me. lol.

Ok, in keeping with GW laundry forum tangential trends, I will give my best tasting microwave egg recipe,lol.

1. 1/3 cup old fashioned oatmeal (or steel cut 5 minute oatmeal yum) in a microwave (ceramic bowl)

2. Add water to make it very wet, maybe about 3/4 of a cup (you'll need to play around with this)

3. Apple cut up into cubes or bite sized slices

4. Dash of salt

5. Microwave for 3 minutes full power

6. Now if you need a bit more water, add a couple of tablespoons

7. 1-2 eggs added and moderately stirred into the bowl of cooked oatmeal (DH uses 2 eggs and adds dates too, I use 1 egg) The egg should be cooked at this point.

8. Microwave for 3 minutes at power 6.

9. Remove and add milk. I never add sweetener but you could add honey or whatever.

I eat this all the time, daily in the mornings. DH is on board with this too.

Enduring..I'm curious as to how the Somat is working for you?

@Joel... Commercial Dishwashers are a different animal altogether. From my experience, most use "Solid" detergent... which contain strong alkaline agents and chlorine (Sodium Hydroxide, and Sodium Hypochlorite) as washing agents, followed by a "Solid" rinse agent. These cycles are like... 2-3 minutes, they don't have time for enzymes. I have seen some though.. that just use Alki, a Chlorine Rinse, and then.. Alcohol Based Rinse Aid.

I think most of them... have on board heaters.. that heat to 160*, or require a nearby hot water heater and booster, to perform properly. They don't have heated dry though... they work off that high-temperature, and rubbing-alcohol to dry dishes.

Personally.. I'm not a fan. They require heavy pre-rinsing, or the results are beyond terrible, laughable honestly. But... I can't say I've seen one that uses Phosphates, or Enzymes.

Domestic Machines... are where it's at. But restaurants don't have the time for 30 Minute+ Cycles.

@whirlpool_trainee, Eggs and Oatmeal have never been a problem for either the Whirlpool Ultra Wash (American) or Bosch Dishwasher (European Style) machine I've used, regardless of Enzyme or Chlorine Detergent. Honestly.... the only thing, these machines have a problem with... is anything greasy stuck on baking sheets. Those never, ever come clean.

Oh... and occasionally rice. Every once in awhile, I'll find a small grain of rice, still stuck to a lone plate. I love Asian Food :P

Stuck on Brownie or Mix? No Problem. Mac & Cheese? Eliminated. Oatmeal? Gone. ;)

When I microwave egg, I usually have to remove the residue with a scrubby sponge - that's who tough it sticks to our plastic bowls. Maybe it the bowls, though - or the fact that I don't add any grease.

Other than that, it's fine. Can't say much about oatmeal or baking sheets, as neither are popular here. ;)

Germans don't make baked goods? That's such a pity. :(

Stuck on food isn't a problem for me...but once in awhile I find granules of what must be food debris in cups..not often..that's when I run the D/W again. I can't figure out why it does this. I rarely put pots and pans in..occasionally a cookie sheet type pan that I bake pork chops on, it comes clean. Oatmeal no problem and I make it at least 3 mornings a week since the boys LOVE it. My only real problem is those occasional food granules. I also want to add Mich's Recipe Cascsde Gel with Chlorine and STPP is fabulous. .I used to put the gel in the dispenser cup sprinkle the STPP and stir...now I put the STPP in first the gel on top and don't stir..Works Great I highly recommend this mixture for anyone with an older D/W.

Another thing my electric bill has been sky high..I couldn't figure it out since nothings changed, it should have gone down with no A/C running non stop, about 5 weeks ago I thought maybe my D/W heater for the dryer so I have it shut off..I got my electric bill last week..it dropped 60 whopping dollars. I won't be running the heater again..its almost time, I'm really going to have to retire this machine. I'm on the hunt for a rebuilt vintage one.

Sparky remember that Lady Kenmore I could have had..damn I regret that loss.

Mitch I can only speak for myself but this German does bake!

Mamapinky, I think the Somat is ok, but my microwaved egg has to be scrubbed off like Whirlpool describes. Otherwise it is good. If I ever get another dishwasher I will go with a Miele I believe. But I hope to get many years of service out of this Kenmore.

Enduring..I will probably be replacing my D/W next summer..if I haven't found a rebuilt vintage machine by than I will probably go with a Miele, I'm even questioning myself on getting a vintage, I'm not getting any younger and I need something reliable for Amiee, who needs to learn the functioning of the D/W ect... after all someday she will have to depend on herself...I don't want to leave her stuck with a machine that requires special knowelage. LOL

Have you been on the Appliance Forum with dishwasher questions? I have not.

Yeah, but if you notice on Appliance Forum, the people there that have had Miele problems, the parts and service cost them as much as a new regular brand machine. That is something to think about also for the future IMO.

O I've only ever been on the D/W forum I think once....

Germans do bake... but we don't use baking sheets. I don't even know what the exact term in American English is - I think it's rimmed baking sheet or maybe tray? Anyway, these span the entire width and depth of the oven and replace the wire rack. Being so large, you can't just pop them in the dishwasher without, usually, removing the upper rack.