10am here Sam but no rain yet.... But its getting dark & cloudy now...

As Prairie Harvest petals open more its looking whiter with yellow tinge in the middle...

Jim: GORGEOUS and best-bloom ever of Prairie Harvest. That gave me hope for mine. Below was Prairie Harvest end of August, the rooting was really small, plus I almost killed it with my cocoa mulch experiment, then horse manure on top ... two other rootings died. But Prairie Harvest recuperated.

We got a good healthy dose of rain. It missed you Jim. Every plant is growing good. The grass is so healthy.

I was reading the other post that JessJennings is from South Africa . wow that is cool

South Africa... That is cool...

No rain here yet Sam but it is real cloudy & dark so might rain?... 12:13pm

I took advantage of the weather so far today and trimmed back our dogwood bushes a bit. Cut up the branches/leaves and applied to the worst section of our one rose bed... I'll be pruning the dogwoods to within 6 inches of the ground in the Spring I do that every 3 years...I'll cut the branches up and apply to the beds...

Raining hard here at 1:02 pm Sam!

Rains slowed down here @ 1:35pm... Looks like its almost done Sam...

Nope raining again....Nice soaking rain..

Suns out now here Sam... 3:24pm

Just stopped raining.

I am looking at the radar. The line of showers just past to the East. The windy part is hitting Philly. Did you get the heavier winds Jim?

Sam: Lucky you got rain .. we got none, typical of fall here in Chicagoland. No surprise.

Jim: Love the yellow color of your Prairie Harvest !! I went back to previous thread to search for some info., and I'm impressed with your healthy roses. Balance of nutrients & fluffy soil & right moisture is the key to healthy roses.

That looks like fun, Jim.. I love helicopter scenes. You captured that well. It didn't rain whatsoever Thursday night, nor today .. the weather cooled down. It's normal for us to have a dry late fall, and doesn't rain until Halloween. I had to water my roses by the hose today ... only the ones in full-sun.

Looks like this week is our last week for decent temps... Reality steps in next week with cold weather...I'm holding off cutting our grass until this coming Wed or Thur then I won't have to cut it again...

Thomas Affleck, Prairie Harvest, Earthsong, Easy Does It all have a bunch of tiny buds but sadly they will not have time to open... So the next new rose blooms you see pics of will be in the Spring...

People report "Easy Does it" struggles or dies after some winters in zone 6a and below so we shall see....I do not winter-protect because I want to see if roses can make it on there own without my help... Precious Platinum would die completely to the ground every winter but it rebounded back just fine... Grew back well & bloomed and bloomed inspite...Too bad it suffered so much from BS...But I prefer roses that are somewhat cane hardy too...I like to see a bit of cane sticking up after winter...lol

So soon the season will close but I'm grateful for the Double Knockouts for providing color all season long and right up until the very end.... :-)

Those two main actors a good. Denzel and the other guy Chris Pine was capt Kirk. I want to see that movie unstoppable.

Thanks, Jim, for the helicopter scene. I was up on a helicopter ride (a friend paid money), it was quiet & smooth. But when my sister took me on her small airplane to Michigan, it was really noisy. Another time a friend took me on wind-driven airplane (hooked up to a bigger one) ... that was quiet, but the ascent was steep, I was ready to throw up. NOT PLEASANT. The helicopter ride was the most pleasant, and worth the money.

SAM, you can watch full movie unstoppable here on youtube...

But hurry before they remove it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUwWldclx2M

This link below is why they made the movie from this real life experience...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mp7q3M4Ja7w

Thanks!

Ok enough about movies...

Just took this shot of birds eating seed I throw out for them...

Took this pic of the sun... Oh its going to be a long winter...lol

Wow! I love all those pics. Jim: You are a fantastic photographer. The helicopter is very pretty, and I love the last pic. The sun represents God's love and warmth to all mankind. Sometimes we get clouds that block the sun, but it's always there. Sometimes we go through hard times and don't feel God's love, but He's always there, just like the sun.

This shot of the sun is a bit better...Yep I like seeing the warmth rays of God's love... Cool how the rays spread out and even appear to touch the ground...

I'm deleting my posts that do not have to do with inspiring quotes in the quotes thread. Such a nice thread should be without BS talk....lol

From watching my friends roses and through my own experiences with roses and teachings from my grandpap I pretty much have figured out what to do here to achieve a successful no spray rose garden...

I gave up on trying to figure blackspot out years ago. Seen to many things that made me doubt my opinions over & over...So strong opinions I do not have on blackspot...

I do strongly believe in the following though for HERE:

1. Creating good soil by topdressing with well done yard-waste compost and by spreading uncomposted yard waste on the rose beds... (Duplicating the forest)...

2. Planting only disease resistant roses that do well in our area...

3. Taking the steps to help mycorrhizal fungi infect our rose roots so extra watering & fertilizers are not needed...

This is what I feel is best for us here under our conditions and circumstances...

Of course others have there own opinions on what's best for there own individual rose gardens and if it works out for them that's just great!....There can be so many different ways to achieve success with gardening...

God gave everyone a FREE WILL to do and think as they please so who am I to doubt his wisdom... When people argue or say nasty things to each other the devil wins! If I say nasty things about someone just because I disagree with them the devil wins! So like our Lord I believe in allowing people to have free will to act and think as they wish whether I agree or not...Our Lord will take care of things in the end...

Jim: Well said, I agree 100%. What both Sam and I don't like about Rose forum is that folks would say this is how we do things, then nit-pick on those who do things differently. I refuse to conform to others' dictates. As to different blackspots-strains, I got curious and research on that. There's the freedom to find out the truth here. I took microbiology in college, we viewed different bacteria strains under microscope, but if I can see different blackspots fungal strains under the microscope, and actually witness another rose infecting my garden with a different blackspot strain, then I'll believe it. It's NOT arguing, it's finding out the truth, rather than just believing whatever anyone preach.

I also have problems with the "self-proclaimed" authority like MichaelG who slander others, by calling me a "troll, and a fictitious character", just because I don't abide to his dictates. I also have problems with MichaelG slandering Kimmsr (the 1st poster in this Organic rose forum) by labeling her divisive and quarrelsome, just because she believes in healthy soil for healthy roses, rather than spraying with Bayer.

If anyone want to believe in the theory of blackspot-strains being contagious, I respect that. But I don't believe in that, after spending time googling, and having taken both microbiology and biochemistry in college. The only reason why I brought it up was a rose-dictator lectured me about "blackspots strains" not infecting my garden, that's why my roses are so healthy. Never mind the hours that I spent getting horse manure, hooking up 3-rain-barrels, digging out rocks for good-drainage, and the organic additives to make soil fluffy and to hold moisture. Plus the many experiments I did both to induce black spots, and to reverse it. I don't accept any "myths" that people create, I'm after the truth.

The bs discussion has been in the roses forum for more then 10 years. I choose to focus on the good memories this roses journey has taken me on. Karl rosenut is part of the good memories. It's good we continue on and share what Karl taught us.

Agree Sam, Karl shared plenty about his garden, rather than speaking for others, or imposing myths and dictates. He's real and honest. That's my approach. Some pics. of my garden, taken Friday Oct 9:

I don't water marigolds, they grow like weeds. Marigolds got chicken-manure early spring, but the tomatoes in front got stunted by bagged cow manure .. I'm still eating them everyday ... hoping to extend that until Nov.

Wilbur says in Vietnam they have a day to celebrate riches and good luck With yellow flowers. Tet holiday. 120 days from now.

Those look so nice Straw.

My right-hand neighbor's tomato, fertilized with woodchips & wood-ash are loaded, but my back neighbor used chemical fertilizer: goner. My tomatoes in the back, fertilized by chicken manure once in early May, are doing well, still green & lots of green fruits for Nov.

Yes, Chinese New Year (Tet) has lots of flowers & will have to look up what animal this year is. Roses are so different from each other. Here's one, Lavender rose for $6.59 from Meijers, grafted on Dr. Huey. That one likes it alkaline, BS and dropped leaves when I gave it Brewer's yeast while in buds ... I did that since there was some left-over stuff. I should had known better NOT to give acidic stuff when the rose is doing "acid-phosphatase", or secreting acid to utilize phosphorus for flowers. So it dropped leaves after pumping out 10 blooms, but grew back quickly with blood meal, plus left-over tap water (from washing veggies). Pic. taken Oct 9:

Yep I emailed Karl a lot in the earlier days of my rose growing...lol... He always gave me a chuckle...lol...Then emailed him once in awhile to see how he was doing. Was sad to hear of his death...

Our tomato area got compost recently so I will not fertilize tomato plants next year again. I'm totally getting away from using store bought fertilizers...

My uncle was in Vietnam but he had many mental issues when he returned up until his death a couple years ago. Flashbacks, bad dreams, agent orange on his legs, etc. etc.

refers to blackspot races: Science based articles:

http://journal.ashspublications.org/content/132/4/534.full

http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/45/12/1779.full

Phenotypic variability among single-conidial isolates suggests that D. rosaeis a genetically diverse pathogen (Wenefrida and Spencer, 1993). Pathogenicity tests have revealed the presence of numerous races. Five races were discovered in Germany (Debener et al., 1998) among 15 isolates, four have been found in England (Yokoya et al., 2000), four were described in Ontario, Canada (Svejda and Bolton, 1980), and seven races were described in Mississippi (Spencer and Wood, 1992a, 1992b). Although it is not known whether any of these races from different studies are the same, the occurrence of multiple races in each location suggests a large total number of races in the world.

• We thank Dr. Campbell Davidson, Dennis Eveleigh, Sam Kedem, Helen Nowell, Nick Howell, Ann Creamer, Donna Fuss, Paul Zimmerman, Jim Jacobi, Kathy Kilgore, Glenn Schroeter, Diane Brueckman, Julie Overom, Kathy Ahlgren, and Charles Tubesing for collecting D. rosae isolates. We also acknowledge Marilena Aquino De Muro for contributing expertise in DNA extraction methodology.

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http://plant-quest.blogspot.com/2009/02/tale-of-two-roses.html

http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/45/12/1779.full

David Zlesak is a huge believer in BS strains (races) and has been part of science based studies he also applied the knowledge William Radler gave him to create very disease resistant roses:

At ripe old age of 13 David Zlesak read an article in the Milwaukee Journal that changed the course of his life. The article was about Bill Radler and how he hybridized new roses. Fascinated by the article and the idea of creating new plants, Zlesak wrote to Radler. To his surprise, Radler wrote back and this letter was the spark and inspiration that started David Zlesak on his plant breeding career and ultimately resulted in the rose Candy Oh! Vivid Red.

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http://aikenmastergardeners.org/2015/01/24/black-spot-of-roses-a-brief-discussion-and-related-references-and-links-for-selecting-dis-ease-resistant-roses-for-your-garden-mt-kingsley-ph-d/

Because the fungus occurs in various pathogenic races (i.e. strains of the fungus that are pathogenic to some cultivars and not others are termed a race).....

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I'm so glad I did this research and found these articles because certain roses are listed as being highly disease resistant in those articles... Some rose bushes I never knew about... Awesome! And the articles answered most of my questions...

I'm so sorry to hear about your uncle. It's sad when I looked up Round Up: "Agent Orange was made from a mix of 2,4-dichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4-D) and 2,4,5-trichlorophenoxyacetic acid (2,4,5-T). It was later discovered that a harmful toxin was produced during the manufacturing of 2,4,5-T - 2,3,7,8-tetrachlorodibenzo-para-dioxin (TCDD). This toxin was found to be highly carcogenic. Because this toxin gets mixed in with the 2,4,5-T during the manufacturing process, 2,4,5-T has been banned in the US as a herbicide. Therefore, Roundup would not contain this chemical but may contain 2,4-D. However, the manufacturer of Roundup does not release the full chemical contents of the product. "

My neighbor was exposed to Agent Orange in Vietnam. Plus he was big-on-meat, he's a weight-lifter & muscle-competition. He died of stomach cancer in his 50's, really nice & strong and fit guy.

Thanks Straw! My uncle seen awful things in Vietnam! Children were carrying weapons or bombs to try and kill our soldiers... So they were forced to kill children to stay alive...He called it "Hell on Earth"! He seen so much death that it drove him almost insane when he returned home! He had 3 different kinds of cancers when he passed away...

I contacted Paul Zimmerman who helped collect samples for the study I posted above and he said so far they found approx 54 different strains (races) of Blackspot...

Nice sunny day here... Prairie Harvest and Earthsong might produce another bloom but will have to see...

I cut grass and used weed eater yesterday... Pulled a few weeds in the beds. We do not get many weeds in those beds... I thought we would when I removed the wood mulch but we haven't so that's a good thing...

The blackspot races are mutations, and they constantly change their genetics to become RESISTANT to fungicides. The breeders try to breed roses that are resistant to as many mutations as possible. It applies to a breeding-perspective, but NOT to a rose-growing perspective. But people who don't read the original abstract carefully, will take that wrong and sue nurseries for giving them a new strain of blackspots. Just read the complaints against rose-nurseries in Dave's Garden "The scoop of ... (name of nursery)" and you'll see.

A little knowledge, taken wrong in the hands of fools can be dangerous. Just like the Vietnam war, the ideology sounds correct "spreading democracy against communism", but the application isn't black-and-white, it's gray, and cause lots of pain and suffering. The Vietnam war should be kept confined to talks between leaders, rather than imposing that ideology to the masses (U.S. soldiers & Vietnam children). Same with the control against blackspots' mutations (races), that should be kept among breeders, than preach to the mass, they'll take it wrong and accusing nurseries of infecting their garden with new strains.

Here's the original abstract:

http://www.researchgate.net/publication/230385603_Identification_of_five_physiological_races_of_black_spot_Diplocarpon_rosae_Wolf_on_roses._Plant_Breed

Candida is a yeast (fungal) infection. The mutations among fungus are fast, and endless. Here's an excerpt from below link: " More than 600 fungus mutations were created from which a single gene was specifically removed.

As now published in the highly respected journal PLoS Pathogens, the molecular analysis of the Candida glabrata fungus mutations revealed 28 new genes that confer anti-fungal tolerance, especially to the popular drug Caspofungin."

http://www.news-medical.net/news/20140820/Analysis-of-Candida-glabrata-fungus-mutations-reveals-new-genes-that-confer-anti-fungal-tolerance.aspx

Blackspot fungus mutates to survive constant-changes in the garden: be it too much rain, or too little, too shady or too sunny, too much acid, too alkaline (lime-application), too much nitrogen, or too much phosphorus, or too much of a particular element in soil. No garden is exactly the same in composition as another garden, so plant fungus has to mutate to adapt to each environment. To accuse of a nursery infecting one's garden with mildew or black spot has no strong-hold, esp. when fungus is "custom-made" in each environment and mutates constantly with the changing garden. I have a bunch of phlox grew from seeds that became mildew (from my garden's conditions), also blackspots on my Thai basil, thanks to high-phosphorus cow manure. The other Thai basil, taken from the same clump, bought from Menards, is 100% clean in my alkaline clay. Fungus is created from a particular set of conditions, rather than jumping from one place to another.

All I know is some roses perform well under most conditions here but some (a lot in my area) do not... Not getting headaches bickering about any certain reason as to why...

I'm actually leaving this forum because I feel I can not add much to it...

Just not fun anymore so take care Straw, Sam, Carol, msdorkgirl...

I'll post pics next year on the pic part of the rose forum...

Prairie_northrose gave very good info. in the other thread "The myth of..." which clear up the confusion. My goal of posting is to understand things .. I post to sort things out, and NOT to bicker with you. Everyone who post here help others to understand things better. Jim, I'm glad that you brought up "blackspot races", so I could understand things better. The goal is understanding, rather than embracing myths, or blindly follow anyone.

My agenda is to get rid of the frustrations I feel when some rose-dictator pounded on me on "blackspots strains" NOT infecting my garden, that's why my roses are clean.

The second agenda is to protect rose-nurseries from being sued or complained against unfairly. When people complain about rose-nursery giving them diseases ... many nurseries either go out of business, or stop selling a particular rose. So we end up with boring Knock-outs everywhere, rather than variations of colors and scents.

I agree with the 1st poster of Organic rose, Kimmsr, who stated, "healthy soil produces healthy roses." My goal of posting is to find out what is the healthy soil that roses like, that has nothing to do with the races of black spots, which pertain only to rose-breeders. But Prairie_Northrose's info. in "The myth of ..." is worth reading, it clears up the confusion.

Hello Jim, I tend to lurk mostly, and I do feel as you have added incredible value to this forum. I hope to enjoy your posts again one day and I look forward to seeing your photos in the future.

Thank you, Prairie_north. for that beautiful pic. above. What is that white rose? I appreciate your feedback on "The myth of ..." very much, in the same way I appreciate Jim bringing up blackspot race (pattern). That set me out to taste the leaves in my garden, and to understand how disease occur.

I don't like Knock-out invading the nurseries, and people grow nothing but Knock-outs .. others also echo my sentiment. The myth of resistance to blackspots strains made Knock-outs popular, at the expense of other roses' varieties ... plus easier for folks to complain against nurseries. Instead of fixing one's soil, people just grow one type of rose: Knock-out.

Honestly Knock-out is a loser in my garden, NOT hardy as Austin roses. Austin roses bloom 1-month ahead of Knock-out, so does Kordes FlowerCarpet, regardless of what blackspots strains are involved. My Knock-out in full-sun got Cercospora fungus Leaf Spot .. while 10 Austins roses were healthy during 1-month-rain. I killed that Knock-out due to its thorniness. See link below on cercospora fungus.

The truth is healthy soil (balanced in nutrients) grows healthy roses, regardless of what's B.S. race or mutations involved. And the myth of "resistant to blackspots strains" only confuse people, hurt nurseries, and benefit only Knock-out roses, being championed as "resistant to blackspots strains."

The above is Blanc de Double Coubert.

So far this year my blackspot resistant varieties include (less than 10% blackspot): Therese Bugnet, Turbo, John Cabot, Wasagaming, Marie Bugnet, Sir Thomas Lipton, rosa woodsii, Quadra, Rugelda, Purple Pavement, Snow Pavement, Hansaland, Blanc de Double Coubert

Moderately resistant (10-30% blackspot): Winnipeg Parks (which is funny, as last year it had zero blackspot), Cuthbert Grant, Morden Sunrise, Bill Reid, Frontenac, Prairie Peace

Low resistance to blackspot (most leaves have blackspot, plant is now mostly defoliated): Champlain, the Hunter, unknown mini

Emily Carr has some leaf spot.

I need to fix my soil. I originally had amended the clay with peat moss. It is all glued up again. Gonna go get some compost once I have time. We did sheep manure, but it has been very bad for weeds. The horse manure that you've use, does it get many weeds?

Hi Prairie_northrose: Wow, I wish I could grow that white Rugosa, my soil is too alkaline. Thank you for that list of black-spot resistant roses. That would be great for "best roses for your soil and climate" thread, so people can see when they google. Sometimes I move my info, or re-post my info., to make it easier for folks who google.

So glad that you mentioned about clay glued up with peatmoss ... I have the same experience. My horse manure got oat-seeds one year, it was a pain to pull up .. so I skipped the next year. The cracked corn (pH 4) really benefit own-root Austin roses which like it acidic ... W.S. 2000 is 100% clean with that stuff.

But the cow-manure (high phosphorus, high salt) HURT everything I tried. Last year I spent 2 hours scraping that stuff off from 6 roses, after they broke out in blackspots, plus leaves became pale (salt and phosphorus zapped iron and zinc). Then I used cow-manure on my 8 tomatoes in front, and got one-tenth the fruits as last year.

Prairie_northrose: Pertain to what you wrote: "I need to fix my soil. I originally had amended the clay with peat moss. It is all glued up again." Did you water with alkaline-tap? Or only rain water? Predfern, Ph.D. in Physical Chemistry in Chicagoland, e-mailed me info. on how alkaline-tap water (has calcium hydroxide added) make concrete out of clay.

I once read how compost glues up with clay, unless it's LARGE CHUNK compost that takes longer to break down (egg shell, corn stalk, Pomegranate peel). I used composted horse manure, and that glued up with clay, same with pine-nuggets (small chunk) broke down and glued up with clay.

If you use lots of alkaline tap: Break up clay with COARSE sand .. which separate it forever, since COARSE sand doesn't break down and get glued up like organic matter. I dug up where I layered COARSE SAND with clay, and it's still fluffy after 12 years. In concrete making, if there are lots of sand added to the concrete, then it's brittle and collapse easily.

If you get lots of rain, then layering WOOD CHIPS, LEAVES, and long strand alfalfa hay separate clay much longer, at least 1 year.. since those take longer to break down. I dug up lots of roses (winter-killed, or the many that I gave away or move) .... coarse sand is the only thing that separate clay longest, even with tap-water. My neighbor paid $$$$ for a raised bed, she said the guy put special soil that never glue up with tap-water. I planted an herb for her, and I saw it's coarse sand mixed with clay (very fluffy). For the past year she watered that bed constantly with our hard-well tap water, pH 8.6.

I hope Jim comes back. I have enjoyed his posts. With all turmoil life brings we don't need more stress with roses. Roses are what helps us escape and make us feel better. Different roses work better in different areas, soils and conditions. Jim said that. It's good we can still see his pictures next year in the roses gallery.

Sam: Well said, thank you. I posted this in the other thread: Jim left for many reasons ... our winter is coming, and we are busy with family, plus the blackspot (BS) strains' issue. I was very stressed out and confused to the max:, didn't water my pots, was behind schedule in taking care of my family & went to bed at 2:30 am. I was distracted, puzzled, and I appreciate Prairie_northrose clearing things up with her excellent info. Even with taking both microbiology and biochemistry in college, the whole thing was a nightmare: sheer confusion and misleading.

The myth of blackspot strains benefit no one, but Knock-outs with its claim of resistant to many blackspot strains. The point I made was OTHER people buy Knock-outs only, being misled by its claim of resistant to many BS-strains. And nurseries are afraid to sell other types, for fear of being hassled about giving customers BS strains. I'm tired of seeing Knock-outs everywhere. I was happy when a shopping center replaced Knock-outs with some pretty Pampas grass.

I have seen too many people returning plants to HomeDepot or people complain against rose nurseries. That's why I post in Organic Rose forum, to make this a better world: to enable people to grow a variety of wonderful & fragrant roses besides Knock-outs.

The rose-tissue-analysis of ratios in nutrients have helped me, I should really start a thread with that title, so the info. can be google easily. For roses to pump out zillion-petals, plus fragrant oils & rose hips, plus thorny stems, plus solid canes, plus many leaves three or four times a year? They need to be fed constantly with the right nutrients. Every late fall, I gather a heavy bag of tomato branches (at least 10 lbs.), then 2 bags of rose-canes (20 lbs. total). That's the amount of ORGANIC fertilizer I should supply.

I got a bumper crop of tomato last year (enough to share with 5 neighbors), since I used a 10 lbs. bag of Jobes' organic, plus a 15 lbs. bag of Tomato-Tone ... for a total of 25 lbs. slow-released fertilizer, plus a 25 lb. bag of gypsum. This year I used 4 bags of cow-manure (low NPK), and we hardly have enough for ourselves, only 1/10 the amount of last year.

Thank you for the tip on how alkaline tap water can solidify clay soil!

Yes, my cabbage test indicated my tap water is very alkaline, and yes I have been watering with tap water. This explains so much!

I'll search on 'acid phosphatase' in relation to plant roots and fluffy soil.

I agree with the use of sand, there are some flower beds here where the previous owner fixed with sand. Huge difference.

On my shopping list now includes a load of sand, alfalfa hay, compost, and horse manure. I've tried cracked corn and was happy with the results. I got some gaia green glacial rock dust, but have not had a chance to properly test it yet.

I read a post once on gardenweb, a discussion about the greatest lesson in gardening, someone said theirs was if you want a great garden, invest in good soil.

I would love for people to grow other types of roses around here but HONESTLY its a tough area to grow many certain roses... I've seen my share of severe blackspot on many different types of roses. So most people avoid growing roses around here anymore... I wish it was different but its not...

That's why I'm trying to find other roses that do well here and hopefully others will try them.

But another sad thing is that most people around here will not care for a rose bush beyond planting it... So even most Ko's look like crap around here after awhile... Dead canes sticking out everywhere etc. etc...

I've contacted our local Catholic Church which has 20+ Ko's & D. Ko's that have really declined over the past few years. I spotted the problems why right away. Anyhow the Church is allowing me to care for the roses next year. I'll be showing the Church's maintenance person how to care for them.

I'm going to offer other people the same thing and for free. If I show enough people maybe others will start at least pruning there roses...lol

I'm going to start a blog to show people how do simple things like pruning roses, etc.

I see Ko's with weeds growing out of them all the time... The weeds get so large they actually taken over the bush...

I agree to that: Someone said spend money on the hole, rather than the plant. So true !! When I make the soil fluffy, roses' root go deeper and can survive winter, plus I don't have to water as much. The first poster of Organic Rose, Kimmsr, stated, "healthy soil makes healthy roses." Also Heirloom Roses recommend mixing 1/2 woodchips into clay to give oxygen to roots. When woodchips break down, it supplies trace-elements such as Zinc (anti-fungal), and manganese (50 ppm requirement in rose-tissue-analysis).

Hi all

My web search on organic rose growing brought me to this forum and what a wealth of knowledge here (though I seriously need to reopen my college chemistry books). Remember being on this forum couple of years back and recognize a few familiar names as well. I am in climate similar to Zone 9a (Islamabad, Pakistan). We get two months of monsoon with lot of rains and high temperatures here.

I think it will take me some time in reading various threads as there is so much here. This year I decided that I would not spray any chemical insecticides / pesticides in my garden even if I loose all my roses. Have been doing few organic treatments, some of which worked and some didn't. In the process I was able to shortlist roses that survived at their own / with minimum care and those which didn't and were always a source of trouble. Would discuss organic treatment for various rose diseases in another thread. In the meanwhile, a few pics of my roses taken in past 15 days (temps around 26-32 *C during day).

Two days back we had a rainstorm at night and his is early in the morning. We still have a month to go here before winter sets in and even during winters, roses keep blooming though we prune them in end dec and start of jan. Temperature stay around 0-5* C at the minimum here so it is just a very mild winter here from your standards. Will share few more pics of roses that showed high disease resistance

Regards

Here is another rose that I found very high in disease resistance. It just survives at its own. Classic HT blooms with a pleasing shade and intense old rose fragrance. McCartney is one rose that maintains its fragrance even on the hottest days when most other roses tend to lose it. It's grey green foliage matches very well with its large size pink blooms.

This is McCartney for you.

regards

Evelyn May is a good one from Peter Beales, UK. Flowers are quite open with a delightful shade of salmon orange with yellow center and prominent stamen. Fragrance is strong and nice. Fresh foliage has a very vibrant green shade and is a treat to the eyes. Very disease resistant. Survived the hot humid monsoon period at its own. The pics are of last week.

The bloom on morning 1st day

Shade on evening second day.... more of a salmon pink

Great shots of your roses Khalid Waleed... Healthy! Gee monsoon seasons and all...

Glad there doing well for you Khalid Waleed...

Khalid: SO GLAD TO HEAR FROM you. I enjoyed your posts since our days in English Rose forum. You are a very valuable poster with your courtesy, wisdom, and your vast variety of roses ... we are lucky to have you here in Organic Rose. I enjoy the pics you post of Whiskey Mac (always admire that rose), the McCartney rose (still kick myself for not getting that), and Evelyn May. Whiskey Mac & McCartney roses are on my wish-list.

Khalid: I re-read your info. Glad to hear that McCartney rose doesn't lose its scent in hot weather. With regard to what you wrote: "Have been doing few organic treatments, some of which worked and some didn't." Would love to know more. Also I would love to see pics. of your Zone 9a (Islamabad, Pakistan).

Sam in NY started a thread, "organic treatments, what worked and what doesn't" ... I will report for my Chicagoland in Sam's thead, and would love to see your response there too, thanks.

jim1961: thanks for your kind words. I am glad you like my roses.

Strawchicago: Wow wow so its you. I got confused initially as you have a different nick here but when I read your posts, I had no doubts that its you. There is only one person that I know who would take so much pain in conveying to the others what she knows with all her sincerity and honesty, without any desire for recognition or commercial benefit. God bless you. English Rose Forum was a nice place and we had few very good discussions there. I always learnt a lot from your posts. And BTW, don't bother much about those who refuse to listen (and thus learn). I absolutely agree with Bible verses that you have quoted in another thread. There a people who would never be able to come out of their so called "egos" so there is no point wasting time with them.

I am so happy to be around and I have been reading the old threads for hours yesterday (I am on holidays nowadays). There is so much to learn I must confess. I have already got answers to some of my questions and will be asking more. Will try to post photos wherever I can.

Let me acknowledge at the outset that with regards to organic rose growing, I am just a beginner and may not have anything profound to contribute. I will be more on the learning side. Nevertheless, I can provide information on behaviour of various rose cultivars in hot humid monsoon region of Islamabad. I won't say that it truly represents Zone 9a that you have in the US but it is close to it with regard to temperatures. What makes it different from US zone 9a is monsoon season where for two months (jul and aug), we have torrential rains, floods and very high humidity with temperatures ranging between 35-42*C. This is a torrid time for roses, all kinds of pests / fungus attack them and if the drainage is not good, most of them might die. At times, it might rain for two to three days at a stretch and whole lawn might be filled with 4-6 inches of water if the drainage has not been carefully designed. I don't have this issue in Islamabad as it is a semi-hilly area nevertheless one has to be careful while selecting location for rose pits.

I will post my observations in a separate thread as advised.

Best regards