thanks for the personal note ... more thoughts for those sitting on the edge of their chairs.. waiting for more .. lol: hey dale personally ... fert is fert .... used minimally ... i dont care chemical versus organic .... never really understood the difference .. nitro is nitro is nitro ... know what i mean ... ergo .. cost is the only determinitive issue .... so i can buy more plants ... the best thing... plant 12 of the same thing.. in groups of 4 ..... 3 feet apart ... give one group nothing... one group a teaspoon of whatever.. and the third group.. a tablespoon ... and keep note.. and decide for yourself.. in your soil.. in your yard ... what difference it all made by the end of the season ... experiment .... all given the same sun and water.. etc.. all other things as equal as possible ... dont buy anything a snake oil salesman tells you .. fert is fert ... any brand name isnt better... etc ... but it really sounds like you have some nice soil .... and i wouldnt be surprised if you couldnt skip a year or two completely .. and not see a difference ... if the plants dont need it.. its just going down to the water table ... so go easy .... experiment.. and use as little as possible... to get the result you want .... i used to do the brand name 4 bag system for the grass ... and after a year or two.. realized i didnt need the weed part of weed and feed ... one less expensive bag to buy .. replaced with plain ole 16 cubed .... then realized i didnt need the bag of crabgrass preventer ... since none was left ... one less bag of expensive replaced by generic ....and then i realized.. if i cut out one bag per year.. i spent less time complaining about having to cut the lawn every 4 days.. because it was growing a foot a week ... and then i decided that 16-16-16 ... 50 pounds for 12 bucks.. did just as good as the brandname for $25 bucks time 4 bags ... last time i fert'd the lawn .. which i do NOT do on 5 acres .... i put one load down in late spring ... and one in late fall .... spring to juice it going.. and fall to grow some roots ... the lawn just didnt need the other 50 pounds of fert [2 bags] .... does that make sense???? you say you get nervous if you dont feed the plants.. i get so.. when i forget to feed the kids.. i really dont worry about feeding the plants.. they take care of themselves in good soil .. most of the time.. if i just make sure they get water ... its a whole new world when you move from half acre in suburbia to 5 acres in the country ... you just forget to worry about some things ... lol thanks for the private note.. i will post this back to the forum also ... as a followup ... take care ... ken

How does the watering affect - or get affected - by the frost? This is the first I have heard of it. Interesting stuff. Water's a major heat sink, requiring 1 calorie of heat loss to drop 1 gram of water 1 degree C. To transform from water to ice (frost) requires a loss of 80 calories per gram, or enough to raise a gram of water from the freezing point to 80 C (175 F). That's a lotta heat. Watering just before/during a frost, using 55 degree water, fends off the frost for several hours until the water you've sprayed out drops in temperature enough to turn into a frost. It won't work against a hard freeze, but if you're just trying to keep the grass or gardens from suffering a surprise early frost, it's great. I don't recommend it against extended frost periods later in the season--the grass has to harden off for winter, and frost does that beautifully. Basically, you're using water as anti-freeze. :-)

Unless applied constantly, the liquid Miracle Grow is not a substantial fertilizer. It's liquid form is meant to be taken up quickly by the plant. It's best used as a tonic or "pick me up," not as a long lasting food. Organic or slow release fertilizers are best for making nutrients available for long periods. The Miracle Grow and similar generic products will work if applied often at half strength. This way they supply a constant source of nutrients. Otherwise you get growth spurts followed by no or little growth until the next application. While trying to find the perfect easy way to fertilize, I tried diluted water soluble urea, which is the main ingredent in Miracle Grow and similar products. Using a fertilizer injector every time I watered. I dissolved a 40 pound bag of urea in a 40 gallon barrel of water and injected that solution at 200 parts per million. The roses grew really well with lots of blooms. When doing this I had to cut my grass every 3 days to keep it manageable. The fertilizer injector restricted the water flow meaning I'd have had to increase the number of watering zones to make sure everything got watered. In my condition, this was an impossible task so I went back to organics by hand. With the increase in oil prices, urea prices increased also so it got expensive to continue the practice but the roses responded well to it. To avoid the previous mentioned growth spurts it had to be applied each time I watered. With my sandy soil, that was every other day, or two bags of urea a week for eight hours of watering eight zones. I can fertilize with my organic mix for quite a bit less and it helps the soil in the process.

There is nothing wrong with fertilizing the first year. Miracle Gro potting soil has fertilizer in it so with the compost and bone meal, your Clem should be fine for a few months. No Clematis does much the first or even the second year. They need at least three to mature. I have Clems planted less than two feet apart that do just fine. I would not be terribly worried about Clems being planted together. I've seen them planted in the same hole doing great.