Melis918, Can you tell me how you researched the issue of self-clean not negatively-affecting these models? Thanks!

I use the self-clean on my ovens (previous one was a KA, current one is a Fagor). I only use it about twice a year, and haven't had a problem so far, knock on wood. I'm willing to take the risk (compared to cleaning the oven manually).

I use the self-clean 2-4 times a year on my Gaggenau, and it works great. It does get a sponge out regularly, and I also try not to make messes to begin with. :)

They are all in theory designed so the electronics are safe from the heat.

If your particular oven has ventilation issues (crushed air duct, weak/bad fan, etc.) then you could run into issues. You are basically pushing the oven to it's limits, so if everything else is 100%, you're fine. If something is wrong, or about to fail anyway, self clean may push it over the edge. Though most ovens have some sort of protection against an over-temperature condition.

KitchenAid/Whirlpool had an issue a while ago that led to a widespread fear of self clean. Basically, the ovens were not designed with powerful enough ventilation, so in the middle of the cycle they would blow a "thermal fuse". It was a really cheap part and easy to replace, but the problem was you had to pull the whole oven out to do it. And the problem would re-occur every time the cycle was run. That problem was fixed years ago, and I'm not aware of any widespread self clean issues with any other brands.

The conclusion: pyrolytic self cleaning has been around since the 1960s, and is a proven, effective, and smart (IMO) way to clean an oven. Pick your oven based on looks, features, user reviews, and performance, and then use it how it was meant to be used.

I've never had a problem with self-cleaning on my GE Profile range. I don't bake all that much, typically run the cleaning cycle about once per year. The range is 10 years old.

I never self-clean, and never seem to need to, but bake pizza and bread at 525 frequently (and for a few hours per session) so perhaps that serves the same function. I have ten year old 30" double convection Therms, and probably self-cleaned once or twice when I first got them but never since. Simply no need - and we use the heck out of the ovens.

If you can why not design the cabinet so that you can add a fan that vents heat away from the oven to an inconspicuous area. We have a microwave directly above the oven that is designed to draw heat out at it's base to vent the oven. That works just pretty good. Can't put in a fan because the cabinet is barely wide enough for a 27 inch oven.

Sometimes the electronics problem is the touch membrane reacting to the high heat leaking past the oven seal and separating. If the top of the seal has become inflexible over time from grease residue buildup it may no longer provide the seal the manufacturer designed the self-cleaning heat levels to work with. This happened with a Jenn Air slide-in. The woven seal is held by push pins and can be washed in the DW.

Kitchngirl: my research has consisted of obsessively reading every thread on this forum regarding df ranges and wall ovens, as well as reviews on other sites and doing searches on various brands/models for any problems or complaints. My conclusion has been that gagg and Miele seem to have the most satisfied users overall, with the self clean not really being an issue. There is no perfect product, but I think I'm making good choices based on all I've read. The Miele ranges are new, with almost no reviews, but I am basing my decision on the track record they have with their wall ovens.

Dan1888 gives another good example. You can see the pattern that if you already have something else wrong with your oven, self clean can exacerbate it. But on it's own, it's not an issue.

I had a self-clean Viking wall oven with self-clean. The self-clean function only cleaned half the oven. It was weird. Additionally, the oven vent was located just below the control panel so, over not very much time, the heat from usage and cleaning fried the control panel. At times it was too hot to touch with bare hands.

With self-clean, if the ovens vent under the panel vs. on the bottom, I wouldn't go there.

In reaction, perhaps, I bought a non-self clean oven. It's been easy to maintain.

About the 4th of 5th time using the self clean function on my oven it "fried" the electronics and who knows what else. Usually used self-clean after Christmas cooking. Rest of the year wiped out with damp rag.

I do not use the self clean on the new oven for fear it will do the same.

I scrape up major spills, but otherwise never clean the oven either self clean or by hand. Yes a patina builds up over the years, but I've never observed any ill effect from it and the time saved can be spent doing something productive. The time or two I used a self-clean oven it produced huge billowing clouds of smoke that required evacuation of the apartment until they cleared. Seemed like a bad solution to a non-problem.

Never had a problem with self clean and I do it in the winter. Never summer. I put my pizza stone in there when I self clean, and it comes out perfect.

Everyone: thanks very much for your input! I'm actually surprised by the general (not complete) consensus to use self-clean (if there are no outstanding issues w/ gaskets, fan or duct defects). I really appreciate the various points on why self-clean got a bad name, as well as various specifics on what the real issues are.

Suzi: we moved from SoCal zone 9b (inland) a year and a half ago: know what you mean about "do it in the winter"!

With self-clean, if the ovens vent under the panel vs. on the bottom, I wouldn't go there.

Your issue sounds more like a Viking problem than an overall oven design problem. My Electrolux and the GE before it vent out under the control panel and both have had many self cleans with no problems. Several other oven brands work like that too without widespread complaints. The fan is there to cool the electronics, so no matter which direction it's blowing in or where the air comes out, it is removing heat from the location of the electronics.

I've had my Elux double wall oven for four years, and I've used the self clean probably 2-4 times a year. No problem yet, knock on wood. Sure beats the heck out of Easy Off and gloves and waiting and all that wiping and rinsing.

My issue is oven design and function. The idea that a high end oven dealer, selling a self-clean oven, would tell a consumer not to use self-clean is a very good example IM0 of a racket.

Self-clean worked perfectly well for many years. The fact that it doesn't work now, or causes oven failure or damage to the oven interior is very basic. It means that these companies are selling products they know will not work as they are marketing without causing issues.

I personally wouldn't buy from a dealer who told me what the dealer told kitchen girl because if the dealer had any integrity he wouldn't be selling an oven that he knows may not do something very basic without consequences. I don't care who the manufacturer is. Self-cleaning ovens aren't new technology.

Electronics and heat don't play nicely together. If an oven vents directly below the control panel and someone has no problems then they are lucky. Because that's just bad oven design. When I replaced my Viking oven I checked on that and ruled out any oven that vented under the control panel -- it wasn't just Viking.

I don't care what anyone buys. I state my opinion if they ask. But there are some pretty obvious problems that come up here over and over and for years -- not just once or twice. And people still go for the problems. If someone doesn't have anything better to do than wait for repair people they can knock themselves out. But I've been there and it's ridiculous.

Selling a self-cleaning oven knowing that the self-clean cycles may cause oven failure is a form of fraud.

I was glad to see the class action suit on the oven porcelain. Perhaps the self-clean will be next. About time.

Electronics and heat don't play nicely together. If an oven vents directly below the control panel and someone has no problems then they are lucky. Because that's just bad oven design.

Sorry but that's just not true. There are plenty of happy Electrolux owners on here who have self cleaned their ovens for years without issue.

The fan does not blow heat onto the electronics. Instead, the fan is there to remove heat from the electronics. The electronics are mounted on top of the oven cavity under a protective panel.. Naturally, no matter what, that area on top of the oven would get hot when it is on if there were no ventilation. Some designs pull in ambient air under the control panel, over the electronics, down the back of the oven to be discharged at the bottom. Other designs pull ambient air in below the oven, up the back, across the electronics, then out below the controls. Both designs have been used for years and either works fine. All that matters is that you're moving enough fresh air across the electronics. Doesn't matter where that air is coming from or going. When the air comes out, the heat you feel is the heat that was removed from the electronics area. That's a good thing!

I personally wouldn't buy from a dealer who told me what the dealer told kitchen girl because if the dealer had any integrity he wouldn't be selling an oven that he knows may not do something very basic without consequences

Completely agree with this.

I was glad to see the class action suit on the oven porcelain. Perhaps the self-clean will be next. About time.

There was a class action about the KitchenAid problem because it was so widespread. Other than that, there aren't any current known widespread self clean issues in the industry with a particular design. Of course some people will still have problems with self clean from time to time, the main reason for which I described earlier in the thread, but not enough with a common cause/failure for a class action suit. Similarly, there is now the class action out on Wolf that you mentioned about the porcelain, but there never was any class action against Electrolux for the same issue because it never became widespread.

I was speaking of hot air exhausting under the control panel either during cooking or during self-clean. I was not talking about a fan cooling the electronics. I was talking about ovens that vent hot air from cooking or self cleaning under the control panel. That is not a good oven design. I'm not naming names or saying every oven does this.

All I'm saying is that it's important to check to see where the oven exhaust is located. I feel it's an issue under the control panel. If you don't agree that's fine. Everyone needs to check for themselves. The vent on my current oven is below the door.

The patient and earnest sales guy in Pasadena was saying what HE'D do and his answer was rather old school (maybe how his mom did it when he lived at home). I asked him, just as I asked here, and he gave me his personal opinion on how to avoid potential trouble with expensive appliances, as rococogurl has decided, too, just to avoid annoying and potentially problematic service calls. Yes, his answer troubled me, and prompted me to ask the question more widely here.

Although I am well into middle age, I have not had ovens w/ self-clean since I lived "at home" with my parents. I think I've only run self-clean on my parents double ovens (GE from 1966 and the only thing that has failed is the clock) two times, when my elderly mother asked me to (she did a lot of broiled steaks in an aluminum pie tin…) and it gave me the willies: the obvious high temp, the odor, length of time. Nonetheless, I keep thinking I'd like to be able to have a self-clean oven and use it 1-2 times a year, if I can get over my concerns. My husband predicts I'm likely to not use it much...

One thing to be sure of with self clean is to do a preliminary wipe beforehand and get the big stuff. That way you shouldn't have any flare ups or too much smoking.

I was speaking of hot air exhausting under the control panel either during cooking or during self-clean. I was not talking about a fan cooling the electronics.

On every wall oven I've seen, one fan serves both purposes. With electric ovens the amount of heat that makes its way from the cavity into the airstream is quite small and is overshadowed by the fresh air being drawn in. What would be bad is if the fan were inoperative. Then the heat would build up and could damage the electronics.