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rhome410

I self-cleaned my new oven... (and a note about my gas rangetop)

rhome410
13 years ago

A lot of you helped me out through my oven journey, replacing 2 Fisher & Paykel ovens in a row, and finally settling on a Monogram, so I thought I'd give a little update.

Anyway, I ran the self-clean in my oven the other night and the porcelain is still intact and looking like new! This shouldn't be news worthy of a post, but you all know this is a new experience for me. And the famous Monogram full-extension, glide racks are still working just as smoothly as ever, too. It's nice to have them get clean with the oven. This oven isn't perfect, but it'd be hard to go back to 'regular' racks after these. Note to oven manufacturers: Need an oven on the market that performs/bakes amazingly, DOESN'T have the porcelain flaking problems, and has glide racks...It'd be nice if it was not the price of a small car, also. Ha!

Some of the very-baked-on little grease spatters on the glass door are still there. Any secrets to getting rid of them? They're not bad now, but someday I may not be able to see through. :-)

The rangetop note: I was noticing (and appreciating) the other day, how great it is to be able to make just the tiniest adjustment of the knobs on my Wolf rangetop and have it make such an immediate difference in how vigorously or calmly a whole pot of something is cooking. Is this characteristic of all gas cooking, or just certain, higher-quality appliances? It's certainly something I never experienced on electric ranges. I know that I've always heard about the responsiveness of gas, and now of induction, but it really is more amazing than I'd imagined. You'd think with the stored heat in the heavy grate and the heat also in the pot and ingredients, that there would be a bigger lag time than there is. It's hard to believe that a small adjustment of a flame (a fairly primitive thing), not even enough to see, will make that difference. --Just an observation from an inexperienced/previously ignorant gas cook that I thought might help someone.

This is what happens when I'm up too early, waiting for dough to rise, and have too much time on my hands and no one in the house to talk to. I talk to you all instead! :-)

Comments (41)

  • beekeeperswife
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Yay!!! Good to hear. I'm nervous about running the self clean on mine. (Capital) I don't know--something about the 500 degrees for a long time--wonder if we would run out of propane and then freeze to death. I don't think the propane man can find our tank with all this snow and the fact that more is coming down again....so I'm holding off until Spring! This was NOT the year to not plan a Caribbean vacation.

    Anyway--glad things went well, and my Capital has those gliding racks--those are the best!

  • rhome410
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Beekeeperswife, we don't run our ovens (or anything else) with propane, but if it's any consolation, we've been on one 120 gal tank of propane for our rangetop for 2 years and still have over 1/3 of it left. Unless you're getting pretty low, I think you'll probably be OK to do self-clean. :-) (But maybe you want to wait until it's warm enough to open a window. Pew.)

    Does the Capital let you set the time for yours? I did the shortest one I could. I have, in other ovens, just run it until I think things look burnt off enough and then just turn it off, rather than run it the entire time.

    Stay warm!

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  • weissman
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    rhome410 - you can most likely clean the oven door with COLD Easy Off and a BLUE scotchbrite scrubby

    yes, gas is amazingly responsive - I haven't cooked on induction so I can't compare

  • cotehele
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Thanks for sharing your experiences. I have not run the self-clean cycle, but I should do it pretty soon.

    I have been wondering how your ovens are performing by now. You had some questions and frustrations when the ovens were installed. Mine still do not bake evenly, especially baking multiple racks of cookies. GE will not make a house service visit anymore. They say everything is working according to their specs. Very frustrating, but I have given up. I am just not a fighter.

  • rhome410
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Thanks, Weissman! I will try that, as I have some on hand.

    Cotehele, I think that I am not a fan of the temperature averaging thing these ovens do that make the fan turn on during baking...even in a non-convection mode. I think the temp is not as even and goes up and down, rather than staying constant. The oven seems to use the bottom element more than my F&P ovens did, since things baked on the lowest rack position burn on the bottom...but things, in general, also brown more on the top. I think the tops are due to the fan thing. This makes doing anything on 'multirack' difficult, because there are so few rack positions that it seems if you use 2, one is either too low or too high... Which, I guess, is a downside of the glide racks that take up so much room. I baked sandwich rolls/hamburger buns this morning. In the F&P I could have done both pans in one oven easily, without risk of bad result, but I had to do one pan in each oven, which is very frustrating.

    I wish they sold ovens at Costco for the no hassle return! Or any return option would be welcome. I wish I'd tried the Dacor, but I'm sure if I'd done that, I'd be pining over the Monogram somehow. The grass is always greener! But I would trade the racks for better baking performance. I wouldn't notice the problems if I hadn't had the F&Ps first, most likely, because the Monograms are no worse than other ovens I've had...Just not as good at baking as the F&Ps. We use our ovens SO much, it's sad to be frustrated with them. I'm sure you know that feeling.

  • weissman
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    rhone410 - does your oven have true convection where all the heat comes from around the fan? That should eliminate the problem of too much top or bottom heat - at least it's supposed to.

  • beekeeperswife
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    rhome--I have no idea about the self clean setting on my Capital. I'll have to get the book out when ready to do it. I know there is a "lock" setting. But other than that--ya got me!

    Normally I wouldn't worry about the propane but since I called the provider and they estimated (correctly) that we had 35% left (2 blizzards ago) and they said they would be coming soon---but we haven't seen them yet! uh oh.

  • Buehl
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I'm glad to hear this oven is working out!

    BTW...If RHome410's GE Mongram works like my GE Profile, the middle heating element is used for multi-rack and the top & bottom elements are used for single-rack.

  • weissman
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    yabbut - if there is a multi-rack "true convection" feature, it can also be used for single rack cooking to get things more even.

  • jaybird
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I get the little "tidbits" off my oven door glass with a "Mr. Clean Magic Eraser". Works like a charm!
    I'm glad your new stove is treating you right!!

  • cotehele
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Rhome, in a perfect world a trial period would be golden! The monogram has true convection as well as 1-rack convection and multi-rack convection. The fan also reverses direction very so often to distribute the air evenly. Except it doesn't. The cookies on the back left side of the oven brown much faster than the other cookies. There is also a difference between the positions in the oven (rack positions A,B,C,D,E). The trays need to be shifted between racks to bake anywhere near evenly. I have also tried using the single for multiple racks as well as the multi-rack setting for single rack. Nothing helps.

  • jsweenc
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Is this a problem particular to the Monogram or with convection in general? We are about to get our first convection-capable oven and I'd love for it to be a good thing for us (but since we've never used it we won't miss it if it's not).

    I hope those other solutions work for the grease on the door, but if not, I've had success with Soft Scrub. Actually, we now have a "green" Soft Scrub that works almost as well... I'll see if I can get to it through all the dust outside of my little hovel.

    Glad you're enjoying your cooktop!

    How is it that you have 8 kids and not one is an early riser?

  • rhome410
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    The Olympics have taken care of the early risers. :-) DH is the only true early bird, anyway. The earliest risers of the kids get up about 7:30, but they were puttering around upstairs still when I was typing this morning...Showers and some chores before coming down.

    The multi-rack convection is the 'true convection,' isn't it, Cotehele? The only convections I have are 1-rack, multi-rack, and roast, which does not start higher and shift down like some brand's convection roast features.

    The 'reverse air' convection is unique to Monogram/GE, I believe, and I'm not sold...So, no, Jsweenc, you might not have these problems with another oven brand. It's supposed to classify as 'true European convection,' or at least do the same, but I'm just not sure. Seems to me that either of the convection features make over-browning seem more likely than less.

    Yep, Cotehele, I'd want a 30 or 90 day money back satisfaction guarantee. For $4000, these ovens should be GREAT in every way, especially baking. If we don't like them...then what? Another $4 or 5K to 'try' again? Grrr. So I know that they work 'OK,' and just try to look at how 'pretty' they are and how nicely the racks move. And at least the porcelain seems to stay put! It also took some trials and different approaches, but I figured out how to get our Friday night pizza just right, and that was important!

    And thanks to everyone for the suggestions on the oven door. They all sound reasonable and things I should have thought of! Just was thinking the self-clean might do the job on it, too.

  • jsweenc
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    We got the new Electrolux induction slide-in range. I haven't learned much about the convection option on it, but our salesman is going to come over one night after we get it to show us how to use it.

    Is that homemade pizza? Do you have a good dough recipe? We sort of had that tradition for a while but haven't found a good dough recipe yet, and now during reno our tradition is "every other night pizza". Ugh. Poor DD is about done with pizza for the rest of her life!

  • rhome410
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Yep, homemade. As soon as we discovered baking pizzas on a baking stone, we don't mess with anything but homemade...Too simple and too good!

    Our dough is super easy...But I'm not sure I can give you exact measurements, at least for the flour. Probably about 5 or 6 cups.

    We start with about 2 1/2 c warm water, 1 Tbsp instant yeast, 1 Tbsp salt, and all purpose or a mix of freshly milled whole wheat and all purpose flours. I use our bread mixer and add flour until the sides of the bowl are cleaned by the dough. Let it knead for 5 minutes or so.

    Put the dough out on the counter that's been sprayed with Pam. Divide into 5 pieces and form those into balls, stretching the dough over the top like for round rolls. Letting them rest 10 or 15 minutes, keeps them from fighting back when you try to spread them out for crust.

    Then I spread them on parchment (about 12" or more in diameter, I'm guessing), add sauce, toppings, and cheese. I trim the parchment around the edges to get rid of extra that might burn.

    Then slide one at a time (including parchment) onto the pizza stone (placed on bottom rack) in a preheated (1 hour preheat is best) 525 degree oven (on bake). Each pizza bakes for about 8 minutes.

    I'm sorry this isn't organized a bit better. Email me through 'my page' if you have any questions. I have daughters waiting to go to Costco. The cupboards are about bare!

  • mindstorm
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Heya Rhome,
    The rolling-glide is fantastic, isn't it? My original-Bosch has one of these - the other 3 racks (Euro-Bosch is a shorter oven with 4 racks only) are the regular ones. They glide very well too but I really appreciate the rolling when I'm cooking in water bath OR when I'm using the heavier dutch oven for the no-knead bread.

    Sorry your new oven doesn't bake evenly. That is one thing I truly treasure about my oven - the temperature is true to within +/-5degrees - that's the precision of my thermometer at any rate so I wouldn't evne know if it were any more accurate. And that is the case in the middle of my oven on any rack - caveat that opening oven door and shoving cold stuff in makes the interior temperature drop for a while. That said, it took me a while to get used to it (or to convection cooking) and until I figured convection operation out, thought I had a big ripe lemon. I actually needed to disassemble my oven to understand the fan and flow directionality to make sense of it and ever since then I've only ever completely loved my oven and had consistently good luck with it. (Now I just need to be careful not to wreck vengeance from idiot time-wasting colleagues on my oven, EVER again).

    Anyhow, what is this "temperature averaging" you speak of? I don't understand what that means. Who or what is temperature "averaging"? The oven controller? How do you know? Your oven may have a large dead-band but I'd be curious about how large that dead band is.

    Am also surprised about the bottoms vs. tops comment during convection cooking. I'd definitely try just using European convection for something - surely no tops and bottoms should activate in that mode? 'Course the other silly and somewhat didactic point to make would be about what you're cooking in. All that conventional wisdom lives and is correct about cooking in glass - thermal transfer is quite high so best to reduce temps there OR about dark pans vs light pans.

    Am truly surprised that GE Monogram doesn't compare well operationally to the F&P. I thought the Monogram was one of the good performers. Sure you can't return it and try for another oven? Miele is out with a Chef series oven. Cheaper because it doesn't have the dozen and one Masterchef pointy-clicky nonsense (my opinion, please don't flame) interface but it is the same animal otherwise.

  • jsweenc
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Thanks rhome! I will try that and e-mail if I have questions.... when I have the ability to do so, Lord willing within three weeks.

  • rhome410
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I knew as soon as I wrote it that someone would want me to explain the 'temperature averaging.' Rococogurl was the one who mentioned it to me as a possible explanation when I had weird readouts on the 'real time' temperature. Here is what she wrote:

    Very important note about the Convection Fan operation on p. 17 - next to the diagram. It appears it goes on and off during baking -- a bit like temp averaging. They say it's to equalize the air circulation. That might account for textural differences and I expect it can be offset by cooking a little longer or on higher heat. You'll figure that out in time. My best guess is that the fan is synched with the thermometer and that it goes off as the oven temp goes up so things don't get overbrowned. That's my guess and the only way it makes sense to me (doesn't mean they don't have a different explanation)

    The heating element in the ovens is on the bottom. The fan sucks up the heat and circulates it through -- so you are getting heat from the bottom on conventional bake/roast and bottom plus circulating air heat on convection whether it's bake or roast. So you have one-source-heat cooking (conventional) or two-source-heat-cooking.

    I also contacted Monogram to try to distinguish between the convection modes. Here is their answer:

    When Convection Bake-Multi-Rack is selected the third heating element in the rear of the oven is activated - a 2500 watt double-loop element surrounds the fan. The fan reverses approximately every 70 seconds to provide even browning on every rack.

    When Convection Bake-1 Rack is selected both the BAKE and BROIL elements are cycled on and off alternately and the fan reverses in approximately 3 minute cycles. Food browns evenly and there is no need to turn the food or rotate the pan.

    Convection Bake-1 Rack optimizes is great for foods like casseroles or lasagna and yeast breads, pies and pizza.

    When convection baking, the fan reverses direction to allow air to circulate around the food. Performance testing has shown reversing the fan produces more evenly browned baked goods. Food cooks evenly so that there is no need to turn food or rotate pans.

    PreciseAir Convection ovens have True European convection cooking. The oven has 3 heating elements:
    A 6 or 8-pass broil element in the top of the oven
    A 6 or 8-pass bake element in the bottom of the oven
    A 2500 watt double loop element in the rear of the oven around the reversing fan
    The PreciseAir oven has Multi-Mode Convection capabilities that give you up to 3 specialized convection modes:

    Convection Bake, 1 Rack (Glass Touch models only):

    Baking performance is optimized for one rack convection baking.

    The fan reverses rotation in 3 minute cycles as the bake and broil elements cycle on and off alternately.

    Optimized for foods like casseroles or lasagna.
    Convection Bake, Multi-Rack:

    Baking performance is optimized for 2 or 3 rack convection baking.
    The fan reverses rotation in 70 second cycles and food is cooked evenly by the third double loop 2500 watt element.
    Cooks more food in the same time. (3 racks of 12 cookies each cook in the same 12-15 minutes it would take to conventionally bake 1 rack of cookies)

    Convection Roast:

    Meats cook up to 30% faster than conventional roasting.
    The fan circulates air in one direction as the broil element heats the oven to brown the outside and leave the inside tender and juicy.

    It was an obvious cut and paste with some things that didn't apply to my oven that I took out. Some left in may not pertain either...such as anything that is specific to a Glass Touch model. Not sure mine is 'Precise Air' as that seems to be a range, but I don't know.

    It all seems to sound OK, and like it should work well.

    I had to chuckle that you actually took your oven apart, Mindstorm. Wasn't really surprised, though. ;-) The rest of us just blindly believe the hype, I guess!

    I hope some of this explains or makes sense. I got up early to bake sandwich rolls, and took them, along with the kids to see my parents today, then followed by a monstrous trip to Costco...My mind isn't all here any more.

  • weissman
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Frankly, if I had that oven I would tyr using only two modes, multi-rack convection when I want convection (for most things) and regular bake with just the bottom element for things that need bottom heat like souffles and popovers. I think the others may be a bad idea - the idea of using the upper element for anything but broiling seems wrong to me.

  • rhome410
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I started this thread wanting to emphasize the positives about my oven and now I want to cry again. It just isn't quite right for me, or quite what I'd expected (I was a good student of biology or social sciences...but never got into physics very far, so maybe my research wasn't thorough enough)...But it's in and I'm still paying it off. :-( It's an oven and it bakes. Maybe far from perfect, but also far from terrible...Just some challenge to it, I guess.

  • mindstorm
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Rhome,

    People have had v good luck with Monogram and once you figure it out, you will too. believe me when I tell you that I spent several weeks in frustration with my oven trying to figure out the whys/wherefores/when/where etc. of what to do with it. Mine isn't a million-featured oven but it does the things it does very well and I'm very happy with it. NOW, that I've figure it out.

    That said, given what you've written I settled on exactly the same thought as Weissman only to see my very thoughts spelled out right there. The "Multi-rack convection" is really the only convection baking facility there. I'd suggest you try just using that when you want convection as it really is the "true convection" / European convection facility there. Your F&P just had that for convection (although I think it had a zillion other modes too, yes?) and you found your bliss with it, didn't you?

    You shouldn't need a degree in Physics to buy an oven; and I'm not sure you need to. As for me, look I'm a much better engineer than I am a cook - so I get my jollies from figuring out how things work. Not how to make cool things in them. BTW, I'll bet you money that you'd have a learning curve if you'd bought a spendy Gaggenau or miele, too.

  • John Liu
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Are the cookies that brown too much the ones closest to the fan and it's hearing element? Could you try putting the cookies on foil, leaving one side of the foil long, and folding that extra length up to make a sort of "wall" or heat shield between the element and the cookies? I have no idea if this will work but I would try it. Make sure the foil cannot get caught in the fan.

  • cotehele
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Rhome, I am sorry, I didn't intend to make you cry! There is a learning curve, at least that is what GE is saying. The oven is what it is. It's learning how to adapt to its imperfections that is taking time. I've read about these same frustrations with other high end ovens, too. My disappointment came from wanting perfection the first time the oven was used. Maybe I am too picky, ha.

    JL, I had not thought of trying foil, which I have used with bread for years. Hope it works. :)

  • Circus Peanut
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    On the positive side, you're now cooking with gas! :-D

    Isn't it amazing how much more responsive it is than electric? That's what folks here mean when they talk about gas being more precise or having more control. When you can adjust the boiling temperature within a second, it really makes a difference for a busy cook. No second-guessing or waiting for elements to heat up/cool down. (I'm always burning things on my mom's electric coil range because I forget that 'off' isn't really 'off' for electric.)

    Here's wishing a smooth ride into baking ease with the new oven.

  • rhome410
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    You see, the thing is, I don't think I'm being dumb or unrealistic in my expectations. I don't like learning curves that have to include things like foil walls. I didn't spend that painfully much on an oven to do what I'd do in a cheap oven. My F&P had single rack and multirack baking (plus convect roast and pastry convect which was great for pizza, not for actual pies)...The fans stayed on constantly during convection modes, not off and on. It never came on during bake. For any of those modes for the things I baked/roasted with them, I got excellent results...Even browning, and not even pie crust edges got overbrown. Nothing ever burned on the bottom. Sounds too good to be true, but I got used to it quickly. :-)

    The Monogram literature shows things baking on 3 racks at a time. I have no idea how that would ever be possible with things so high and so low, and one rack right in front of the fan. When I tried to do pizza with the different convection modes, trying to replicate what I did with the F&P, I got burned bottoms and raw tops with 1-rack convect, burned tops and white crust with multiple-rack convect. Maybe I was just lucky that I hit on things faster with the F&P, shortening the learning curve and making it seem like there was none. The only thing I had to learn is what I used convection for. I think the truth is, I could have done without convection in either one...I did that my whole life without a problem. I just want a good bake that's consistent and reliable without 'work arounds' to make up for problems created by the oven.

    I don't mean to sound like I'm ranting or whining. Just honestly disappointed to have given up excellent performance for fair performance just because of porcelain...and have to spend a fortune to do so. F&P got the 'important' things right that seem they'd be more complex...why not simpler things like porcelain application?

    Thank you, thank you, Weissman and Mindstorm, for sorting through the info and letting me know to avoid the 1-rack convection and understand which was the better method. I have been using it, actually, when cooking with one rack when I know I want the air moving all around and good all-over browning...So maybe that was one part of the learning curve I came to incorporate without quite understanding the details of why.

    Maybe you'll know the reason for this one: Baking pies the other night and butter dripped from the crust and there was some spillover...Any of it smoked out the oven. In the F&P we certainly had the same drips and spillover (which burned on the bottom and helped wreck the porcelain), but it never smoked out the pies. The fan action? The heat of the bottom element? My work-around for that was to put a pan or foil on a rack under the pies so the drips weren't landing, basically, right onto the element. I was afraid that would affect baking time and heat movement to do so, but it's better than smokey tasting pie.

    Circuspeanut...Right on the gas. Fun and so responsive. Messy, which is the downside. I have burned myself pretty well on the grates of an 'off' burner, and even the one next to a recently off burner, so not sure I could say 'off is off.' But for cooking, the food seems to recognize 'off' unlike on electric. Like I said above, I'm not sure why the heat in the grates don't cause the same problems as a cooling off electric burner, which seem whimpier and like they should cool off faster. All in all, I have an amazing kitchen with tools like I've never been blessed with before.

  • mfhoop
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Rhome, sorry to hijack your thread, but I'm curious why you don't like having your stove across from the short end of your island. We're still struggling with our sink vs. range placement and that's a consideration.

  • guppy_2009
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I wnet with the Viking pro series double wall ovens and they are true convectionwith the slide out middle rack. So far, no problems. At times I need to increase the baking tiems by a couple of minutes (which is strange for convection) but it isn't a problem at all.
    Sorry to hear you are having a tough time.
    Gas is great though you are right! It's my first time with it too and I love that I can change the heat to quickly and it is instant! I have to say though, even at low or simmer, it is still quite hot and I have boiled a few dishes dry...my le creuset dutch oven is scorched on the bottom interior but still works fine...just isn'tgleaming white anymore.

  • rhome410
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I looked at the Viking oven, Guppy_2009. One of my favorites, but out of my league, pricewise. I'm glad you are having a good time with it. What gas cooktop do you have? Can the simmer be adjusted?

    Mfhoop...no need to apologize...I'd rather answer your question than whine more about my oven. ;-) I would like the feeling of protection for the stove, as well as the work surface that the long side of an island would provide, as opposed to the narrower end. Also, since the cabinets/drawers on my island open toward the sides, my knives, etc. for prep are on the side, rather than the end toward the stove, so I find that I wash things at the sink on one side, then move around to the other side to prep where the knives and cutting boards are stored and there is a wider work area, then move to the end to cook. It's not bad, since the food doesn't move much with it reachable from any of those locations, it'd just be nicer to do all that on one side and just turn to the stove. I find no benefit to having the long side of the island toward my cleanup area, so would rather have it toward the stove. As it is, though, I have my longer side toward my baking area, which is good too. Don't know if there's really a way to 'have it all.' :-) Somehow I lost track of your original thread, but looked just now and like the progress you made. Are you still considering that last layout you drew? Have you decided about rangetop + wall ovens vs 48" range? I like Bmore's corner pantry...One of those kinds of pantries I mentioned in the thread about 'what I wish I would have known".

  • mfhoop
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Sigh. Thanks for asking. We aren't settled on our layout. We talked to a kitchen designer who strongly recommended an L-shaped layout similar to one of the other versions we have had in circulation (which gets us back to having a corner and gives us less space on the short end). I do think we've decided to do a 36" range and 30" wall ovens. I definitely prefer the ergonomics of wall ovens and not ranges, so that's one piece we are mostly settled on.

    There are some pretty intensive structural changes involved in what we're doing, so we're actually taking a design pause while we have a contractor give us something akin to a feasibility study on our general plan so we can get a better handle on how big a piece of our budget the structural work will be. In the meantime, we also realized that our measurements for the doorways leading into the current kitchen and dining room were off, so the long end of our L might not give us the length to put all the things on that wall we want. We're hoping to put a revised plan out for concept later tonight!

  • weissman
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    rhome410 - it sounds like you have an exposed heating element on the bottom of the oven. Did the F&P have a hidden element? That may be why you're getting the smoking, in which case putting the pan or foil below the pie is the right thing to do - it never hurts to keep things from spilling over onto the bottom of the oven.

  • rhome410
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    No, sorry to give the wrong impression, but the Monogram's element is hidden, too...I just meant that the bottom is right over the hot element, and could the bottom be getting hotter than the bottom of the F&P did, even though it had an element there, too? Just not sure why I have smoke with this one and not the F&P under the same circumstances. Probably need to take apart both ovens to figure that one out!

  • plllog
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Oy. I'm so happy you were able to self-clean, with the racks, with nothing melting, flaking, peeling or otherwise falling apart!

    That shouldn't be a miracle, but nonetheless...

    I'm so sorry about the results and dearly hope that you'll get the tricks down, as others have said, and find out that it's really wonderful, after all.

    You're at the point where some of my more ritual minded friends would be looking for an imp that was messing with your ovens and get him out!

    I'm more practical: Give it a little time to really find out how to get the most out of it. If that doesn't work, start a blog and webcast showing all the ways you use your ovens and get Miele to sponsor you by giving you one. Because we both know that's what you really want, and maybe the other ovens do too and are rebelling. And I know all of us would watch your show.

  • rhome410
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    get Miele to sponsor you by giving you one. Because we both know that's what you really want, and maybe the other ovens do too and are rebelling.

    Ha! Could be! ;-) I'm especially Miele-minded since Mindstorm says they have a simpler version, and because I just read on the appliance forum that some of their new ones have gliding racks. Now if I get get a Miele oven behind the Monogram pro-style doors.... That's what they need! Modular ovens. Pick a part to get the oven you want. ;-) That, plus the 1 1/2 oven thing...I am full of ideas. Why aren't they asking me?

  • jsweenc
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    You have moved on from this question but I realized I forgot to come back with the name of the cleaning product I mentioned -- LeScrub by Method. Sorry to interrupt; back to your oven discussion. Sorry I have nothing of help to add!

  • mindstorm
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Pllog makes a good point. Thank goodness for small mercies - no peeling, no flaking. Funny about that with the previous ovens. Rather surprised about that too as I hadn't heard anything about it.

    Must say, am a bit mystified by a convection oven whose fan cycles off. Why??? Not to save energy surely since the most energy-light part of the oven would be the fan! I downloaded the manual and saw that bit on page 17 that Rocs pointed out to you. A convection oven that may or may not convect. That's not averaging, I wouldn't say.

    Anyhow, Monogram has received good reviews and I will say that the forward/backward flow is a not half-bad idea to get good coverage. Not to sound totally condescending, but I just wanted to reiterate a few things that you probably already figured out cooking oh in the course of your life and re: convection anywhere (these are the things that I needed to learn):
    - pre-heat time. Never mind the beep; let it pre-heat 30-40 mins.
    - Selecting the correct racks and rack pairs when multi-rack baking. All specify to watch for this esp. with multi-rack cooking.
    - Air-flow: Take them at their word when they talk whatever their oven needs for clearances and to ensure laminar flow in their ovens. Yours says 1-1.5" clearances on either side from the walls, center the dishes on a rack, stagger them when one on top of the other (mine is v. tolerant about the last in convection mode but the clearances for airflow are definitely imp. I've found)
    - cooking to dish type: darks, vs. shiny vs. glass.

    Spills vapourizing to smoke is also surprising. Sounds like the bottom element was on and scorched the spill. I think using your drip try from here on out to help catch spills sounds like the best bet. I don't really know what to say though as it sounds a bit odd. Wouldn't have thought the bottom element could get that hot that it would char spilt pastry. No way that Monogram will come out to check the element to see if it is out of place somewhat? (Its a stretch but that's such an odd happenstance, I'd be dying to see what's under the panels ;-) ).

    Rhome, you'll figure out the ovens' idiosyncracies no doubt.

  • rhome410
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Thanks, Jsweenc, for thinking to come back with that info.

    Mindstorm: The fan on and off thing is strange to me, too...Either off during convection or on during regular bake seem wrong and could have been a 'deal breaker' in the search. My fault for not picking it out of the manual that I definitely downloaded and read through...Ok, maybe skimmed is a better word, I guess, in retrospect!

    I do know/practice those things you list, Mindstorm. Maybe not always precisely correct on pan color, but mostly. I don't mind you asking or reminding at all. Sometimes it's the most obvious things to us that aren't to others. But that's why I said I didn't think I was dumb or out of line in my expectations. I have done a lot of baking, and I've had this oven for 3 months, which, considering amount of use, is probably 9 - 12 'regular-people months'. :-) I would have thought I had the bugs worked out that were workoutable, and now it just is what it is. The other problem is that I almost have to post the adjustments I've decided work best on a poster beside the oven...My dd and her friend were baking his famous cookie recipe the other night and made the mistake of using the bottom rack position...Those are my favorite cookies, but black on the bottom doesn't do them any good! Oh, well. It doesn't have glass flakes blowing around, and it didn't blow a board during self-clean, so I guess that makes it better than many ovens out there.

    Thanks so much for reading through and helping me think this all through, and for the vote of confidence that I'll work it out in the end.

  • steff_1
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    So glad that you were able to run the self clean and get the oven clean without incident.

    The response you are getting from the Wolf rangetop used to be common with all gas cooktops, but is now only the case with the higher end. I have a new Kitchenaid closed burner gas cooktop and I can't get a decent simmer. It takes forever to boil water, too. The Wolf has dual stack of gas ports on the burner that allows more precise control. Can you tell I'm seriously considering a switch?

  • rhome410
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Well, I can't say I think water boils quickly, Steff_1, but I'm just used to that now, and of course, I don't know how it compares to what you have. It's not as fast as on my old electric ranges, and I'm not really sure why, since it's more 'instant hot.' The rest is great, though, and I'm glad to have the nice simmer.

  • bmorepanic
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Umm, if you have that big cast iron grill, an interesting place to store it would be on top of the bottom of one of the ovens. The retry the bottom rack space.

    Not saying it'll work, but it did well for me in a profile range, p.o.c. that it is.

  • rhome410
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Do you mean right on the surface of the oven, Bmore? I think putting anything on that surface is verboten... Seems like it'd be in danger of overheating the element or causing problems with the porcelain...? Hmmm. Just read the manual. It says not to line the bottom with foil, but doesn't talk of anything else.

  • rhome410
    Original Author
    13 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    the idea of using the upper element for anything but broiling seems wrong to me.

    Was just looking at the manual for the new, non-Master Chef Miele. It is only available in a sgl, doesn't have a probe (a feature I love), and I don't see any, even the MasterChef ovens, with glide racks, as someone mentioned on the appliance forums. Oh, well...Anyway, Miele's non-convection 'surround' baking mode uses the bottom and top elements...but nothing I can see about them using the top element for convection modes.