I have to ask:

are mayflowers and may_flowers the same people or different?

Same person, Linelle. I took out the underbar recently to make it easier for people to type my name. I couldn't register as mayflowers on the original GW.

Yeah, oceangirl always posted one-line zingers, so she was easy to spot when she changed her name.

May, thanks.

This whole thread is kinda distasteful. Judgy. And mean spirited in much the same way that the OP wants to accuse others of being. Flagging people because you don't like them only clogs up the moderator's feed. If you don't like someone, don't read their posts. Change your viewpoint. You're the one with the problem.

OK I had to look up oceangirl.

I know I am blunt. It's the Nu Yawkah in me plus I'm usually trying to juggle several things at one time like most of us. I find that every once in a while someone will come onto the forum and ask what we think of their (kitchen, backsplash, layout, building, etc) and when people are not in love with it, they basically continue to tell us how they think it's fine.

Now I'm not talking about the folks who you offer suggestions to and they give you valid reasons why they can or cannot do what you or others have suggested. Even if the reason is they have an aversion to something like pocket doors or the color green.

No my beef is with those who come on wanting us to pat them on the back telling them how wonderful they and their bass ackwards layout, color scheme, busy tile and busy counter, etc are. Then they get incensed when we give feedback. So my question is, why did you come on and ask if you think it's fine?

As I was planning my house, I had to move the front of the house to the side street. (I'm on a corner.) I moved the laundry to the front hall behind closed doors. Several folks were aghast at that idea and called me out on it. My first reaction was, It's FINE! (After all, that's what I have in my condo.) However because of those good folks, and others who suggested different layouts, (with some reluctance at first) I was able to take what they suggested and get my laundry out of the front hall.

It's the folks in the first group who get my goat. Those folks I get blunt with.

I disagree (respectfully!) with the idea that the thread itself is distasteful, snarky,or whatever. I think some frequent posters above sound like they are wondering if they come across as snarky because they often disagree and may even offer blunt suggestions or opinions at times. I think that most us us can tell the difference, even on the Internet. Blunt opinions are not the topic, in my opinion. I doubt the snarky ones even wonder!

it is true that it is annoying and ungrateful especially to the posters who generously spend time and effort on re-designs to blow them off casually, or even to ignore them.

I also find it annoying when the criteria are clearly presented and then totally ignored, along with every bit of the up-thread commentary.

(And yes, this is a haven of civility in the world of Internet forums, no doubt about it! Thank you all for that.)

Lori I realize that many times threads that start off with "what do you think about my wall color?" wind up with posters offering uncalled for suggestions. In most of the cases it's because the OP is looking to put lipstick on the pig and the posters are trying to let the OP understand that it won't solve the problem. That it will only be throwing good money after bad.

Or the OP will have a question and posters will see something that could improve their, layout, color scheme, choice of appliances, etc. Should they shut up and just answer the question?

Personally even when I asked the question about my W/D as an example, I was thrilled when others picked up potential or minor things they thought should be changed or fixed that had nothing to do with my W/D. In some cases I agreed with them. In others what they wanted to do would never have worked in the real world and in other cases I totally disagreed with them. However in every case I thought about what was said, and in a few cases, even some of the "it would never work in RL" suggestions, it sparked another direction that solved a problem.

I'm an artist. What makes me an artist more than my ability to draw and paint is my ability to think outside the box and to use that thinking to go in different directions from the tried and true. I think I am open to all suggestions because of that. I would hope those who come here for help and advice would also be willing to maybe be open to suggestions and the outside the box thinking.

The examples you give, cpartist, are successful ones of lateral thinking. I never intended to propose that people ignore glaring problems. All I'm saying is that snarkiness is not a necessary component.

Haven't you seen the "you don't need that stupid feature" comment on a part of the house way beyond the kitchen that was based on ignorance of the setting, climate, family composition, or other aspect? Those are the examples I am thinking of. Others ask" is there a reason you did x, y, or z?" The OP can explain or just say yes and re-direct the question.

FWIW, I am also an artist, trained as a scientist, and the practice of both requires out-of-the-box thinking and a fairly thick skin. I think I have a reasonable amount of both due to the above, but not everyone does.

I approach my online interactions the same way I do my IRL (In Real Life) ones.

At first I'm somewhat timid, get a feel for the "crowd" and see just how much I can "be myself."

There are things I would say to my friends that I would NEVER say to my grandmother and vice versa.

Whenever I would start a new job at a new office, I had to get a "feel" for just how relaxed the atmosphere was before I felt fully comfortable saying what truly popped in my head.

In some instances it became quite clear that it was a joke around/non-PC environment, in some cases it became clear that a certain level of decorum was expected. Once I knew the level, I stayed within its confines.

On GW, my experience (pre-Houzz takeover) was joke around/non-PC environment; and once I got that feel, I let my hair down so to speak.

Personally, I wouldn't change this environment even if I could because I prefer people in their real, uncensored state.

Sure, sometimes what they say rubs me the wrong way; sometimes what my friends say IRL rubs me the wrong way but I still respect them and appreciate their contribution and the fact that they are being real.

As someone else said up thread I'm a big girl. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

This is the internet, not the country club. There is no hand holding and tempering of thoughts, they flow as freely as the keg at a frat party.

Personally, I prefer the bluntness over the "well, it actually sucks but I'm trying to be nice so I'll attempt to phrase it in a non confrontational way"

Just my two cents...

Is it only me or do we seem to have a fair number of these posts recently? (I may be thinking of different forums). We shouldn't have to keep defending the forum. OP - I took your comment somewhat personally. I'm sure I can make people crazy with my occasional distortions of their back splashes but my intentions are good. I think this is true in most cases. I post because I'm interested in a question or think I can help. Others may dislike my efforts (I do too at times!) but I've found it equally helpful to know what doesn't work as what does. I remember ocean girl/aka mean girl too. Very spiteful. Still, nothing like the occasional cat fight to liven up the forum(s)....

Someone has igored the ''more wine'' command of remodeling.

More wine. All around.

I was planning to continue ignoring this thread....

I found GW several years ago when I was doing my kitchen. I read for a while, then I posted. Boy oh boy I think the first comments I got made me cry. Then I put on my big girl pants and re -read them for what they were, comments from complete strangers spending their time to reach out across the internet to offer what they felt was helpful to a stranger. TY GW. So what that they didnt have time to phrase things more kindly, maybe that facilitated getting my attention.

People shouldn't be so sensitive. If you dont like it, ignore it. People should also be aware we are all from different places. And maybe this is a stereotype but some regions of the country are more blunt and therefore can be perceived as less polite. It is a regional difference which should be appreciated like a southern drawl not lambasted.

OB2B you are always helpful and without all your mockups I dont think I would have a backsplash I LOVE today.

Sophie you are extremely generous with your time and expertise. If people dont appreciate you they dont deserve you

LL the time you spend on layouts and mockups for others is extraordinary

To all the others whose names I have not mentioned MANY MANY Thanks!

Personally, I prefer the bluntness over the "well, it actually sucks but I'm trying to be nice so I'll attempt to phrase it in a non confrontational way"

I try to go with option 2, but isn't it sometimes difficult to find the right words?! Sometimes you just have to give up and take the blunt approach. I remember when Sophie said a huge ornate armoire was the "elephant" in the room and she got so much flack! I guess she could have said "My, that's a big-un" in her Mississippi drawl. (Sophie's a guy, right? I never know which pronoun to use.)

Lol, if Sophie is a guy, someone will have to break the news to Joseph (Trebuchet). Pretty sure she's a she. ;)

I did break the news to Joseph. I saw another KD refer to him by a male name.

This thread has turned into a monster. A few people are missing my whole point. I did NOT say I don't like blunt help. This is like the 4th or 5th time I've said it! Blunt HELP=Great, however, snarky-backhanded-better than you will ever be=Not ok!! If you have something to contribute to someone's legitimate question that's awesome. But, for instance, when you tell someone their new build looks "prisonesque" and then offer advice, I definitely find a problem with that. THAT is snarky to me!! THAT was my whole point!! THAT is why some people won't ever bother to ask for help when they actually need it! THAT is precisely why I have never posted my kitchen reveal! Why post if I know certain people will have nothing but negative comments? THAT was my point. All the snarkiness is pointless. Say what you need to say WITHOUT a side comment and actually help someone instead of bringing them down!

Ashley- what you call snarky (I.e. prisonesque THEN offering advice) I call humor and bluntness used to get someone to see a point.

No one can be politically correct all the time and even if we were, we would still offend someone somewhere.

No one has a right to not be offended.

To each his own. I'll never agree with you that its humor, but that's ok. I know everyone has their own thought process. I just think that it's running off people who do need help. Very discouraging to someone who is spend lots of time and money on a project. Lots of ways to get a point across without snarky comments.

Ashley, have people on GW made negative comments after reveals? Criticized houses after they're built? That's unfortunate. I can't imagine why anyone would consider that to be helpful. It's done. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. It seemed to me that GW reveals, by actual regular people who have been posting, were always greeted by kindness and congratulations, while "articles" on Houzz posted by professionals about the kitchens of anonymous people were the ones that were open to criticism. Of course, I'm gone from GW for months at a time, so I may have missed some unhelpful reveal comments.

I proudly posted the reveal of my small, partial overlay, cherry, unexciting galley (which I still adore, four years later), and no one said anything snarky. People just found something nice to say or stayed quiet. Mostly the latter; the big, glamorous kitchens do get more oohs and aahs, understandably.

But, for instance, when you tell someone their new build looks "prisonesque" and then offer advice, I definitely find a problem with that.

I think you're doing what I mentioned in another post--nitpicking one word from a helpful post with advice. You say you have a problem with that word, but did the OP? I have seen where the forum police have swooped in to criticize a comment, but then the OP comes along and says it didn't bother him/her at all. When we're not the OP, we're just audience. The comment wasn't addressed to US. So just let the OP respond if they find a comment snarky. Or they can just ask for clarity so the thread doesn't blow up. Or ignore it.

I don't recall ever seeing any snarky, mean comments in reveal threads. Has that really happened here? Maybe I'm overly immune to snark and didn't even notice them. I would have to agree with Ashley that no one should criticize someone's finished kitchen. When I go into a reveal that has finishes that aren't my personal taste, it can still be beautiful just not what I would personally pick. Or, if I really don't think it's beautiful, there are still usually things worth complementing like lovely windows, a charming eating nook, great layout, wonderful storage ideas, whatever. I don't think a reveal is the place to be negative at all. If someone truly can't find anything positive to say in a reveal thread, it's a good time to practice "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all."

I'm thinking of the recent discussion where someone hated her newly installed granite. I didn't read every comment but the ones I saw were actually very encouraging telling her the granite is beautiful, that the imperfections she is bothered by is what makes it interesting, and such. I didn't see any snark (but, like I said, didn't read all comments).

However, if someone is actually asking for help on some finishing touches, or expressing doubts about something that can be fixed within their budget if it does indeed need changing, I think that's a bit of a different matter. Then I think blunt and straight-forward comments and advice are just fine.

Ya know, after reading here for just a short time, I presented my first kitchen design idea. Yeah, it was blasted. Big time. Some stated their negative thoughts in kind terms, some not. I was taken aback because I really thought I had designed something amazingly clever. I did have a bit of a snit over it. Then I pulled on my big girl panties and realized that I had seen great advice given to others in the few short weeks I had been devouring discussions here and that I really did want the feedback from people I had come to respect and admire due to their design skills. It took two more tries to get something that was workable enough where people really jumped in to help me plan something I love and works well for my space.

No, I didn't take every suggestion because I did have some deal-breakers. Example: one person wanted me to put my fridge in a location that would be far to visible from the dining/sitting area and to cover up some of the glass blocks I had been itching to reveal after years of being boarded over. I love glass blocks and dislike the look of fridges. But the layout suggested was quite functional so it was a good suggestion if that hadn't been a deal breaker for me.

Thankfully, people continued to work with me to come up with something functional, that hides my fridge in a niche, and allows me to enjoy all the glass blocks. Sometimes people did have to give me some tough talk to get me to see outside my own myopia about the possibilities. And, for that, I'm eternally grateful. I fear that if they would have couched everything in nicey-nicey terms, I wouldn't have listened and would have ended up with an inferior design.

Actually mayflowers, the op on that thread did get miffed.

Ashley, I don't ever recall someone making snarky or even negative comments about anyone's reveal. NEVER EVER. If you have, please show us where because you're now comparing apples and oranges.

It's one thing to make what you perceive as negative comments (and we perceive as helpful comments to help the person get the best house, kitchen, bathroom, flooring, laundry area, etc) before a person builds, but when a person puts up their after pictures, I have only seen positive comments letting the OP know how wonderful their home came out.

And you know something? Those comments are heartfelt too. I know I drool over each and every home, kitchen, laundry, etc reveal, no matter what the price level or design choices. I do that because each one is beautiful in their own right with the wonderful features that make the OP so happy. I dream of the day I'll be able to post my reveal pictures.

If you choose not to reveal your own home because of your own insecurity or for any other reason, that is your right but please do not insult us by saying there are people on here who would be so rude as to insult you for showing your newly built kitchen.

Everyone has a different 'style' or 'tone' in their writing. It's what brings the personality across...good or bad. Some are easier to deal with than others.

I think there are well-meaning people with a critical tone....and nice people, who offer support but no real help. Then of course, there are helpful, supportive people and critical ones, who offer no real help.

So many times, we remember the one or two harsh (not very helpful) replies and they overshadow the twenty plus helpful responses.

When we do respond....does it help to encourage someone to continue with a bad plan? Probably not. If they are limited in budget and have to keep things 'as is' then we try to work around it. If the budget allows a change, it's more difficult to avoid "that elephant in the room". Not all of us would call it that, but that is what we might be thinking.

After two or three attempts (hopefully not too harsh) at pointing out why this is not a good idea, I usually go on to another thread. The person does not want to change and there's no reason to go on. Others are more persistent and may well finally convince someone to make that change. At the end of the OP's project....who did more good? Probably the loud, repetitive 'some might say snarky' person, who kept saying very bluntly, this is a *@%^ terrible idea! What is wrong with you? Are you @*&%* ????

So, tact is very nice, but at the end of the day....I would have moved on and the person may have built a dreadful kitchen and/or home. I used to teach and I try (not always successfully) to be nice, constructive, and not too pushy. Some days are better than others :)

But, I played little or no part in making that person change their mind, whereas the 'snarky' person might deserve a portrait over said new home's fireplace.

Something to think about....

Slight diversion - I'm dying to know - what the hell are big girl panties, and why does one need to pull them up? I've seen that phrase used here a lot and I can't quite wrap my head around it. I get that it's some sort of colloquialism, but can someone please explain it to me? (I'm sure I'm being dense. It happens sometimes.... )

And you may now return to your regularly-scheduled programming...

Grow Up, Move On and Be An Adult :)

Thanks Linelle. I just googled it and sort-of understand. All that pops in my head when I see that phrase are visions I'd rather NOT see, so I can't quite understand its allure. But I'll live. :)

My post was not written to you or about you, Ashley, but on this topic in general. My apologies if that wasn't clear. I meant no offense.

I grew up mostly in the Midwest but I've lived in a lot of different parts of the country and one year overseas. There are definitely regional and cultural differences in how we communicate and that includes how we express humor. I remember how offended I initially was when I moved from IL to S. Fla where there is a heavy presence of (love how cpartist put it) Nu Yawkahs. It took me awhile before I realized that it was just a style difference and nothing more. Because of that experience, I tend to not be bothered by the snark factor.

The other thing I keep in mind is that writing well is a skill. Even those of us who write or wrote for a living (I did) benefit from a good editor. It is easy to misunderstand printed words without the benefit of facial cues, verbal inflections and body language. I try to give the benefit of the doubt because that's what I hope others extend to me.

That's not to say that there aren't periodic troll posts and yeah, the
fewer we see of those, the better, but IME the best way to deal with
them is to ignore them and focus instead on the positive.

It's "big girl pants" not panties. Maybe from now on it should be "panties" cuz that made me laugh.

Lol might be thinking "Dont get your panties in a bunch". :)

I would say it must be regional. It's always put your big girl panties on here, I've even seen decor that says it.

The female equivalent to telling a guy to "grow a pair".

Both meaning grow up and deal with it like an adult.

Well, I was just watching this silly thread for entertainment and then I saw this which made me want to submit my own reply that YELLING at the forum, telling us how to form our replies and and respond within your 'rules' is just another form of snarky to be sure - so please re-read your own rude, sarcastic, disrespectful, snide reply below, and then please do what others have advised and get your underpants together, and grow up". I'd love to see your "reveal" and will make a point to sit on my hands - LOL

Ashley Weilacher - "This thread has turned into a monster. A few people are missing my whole point. I did NOT say I don't like blunt help. This is like the 4th or 5th time I've said it! Blunt HELP=Great, however, snarky-backhanded-better than you will ever be=Not ok!! If you have something to contribute to someone's legitimate question that's awesome. But, for instance, when you tell someone their new build looks "prisonesque" and then offer advice, I definitely find a problem with that. THAT is snarky to me!! THAT was my whole point!! THAT is why some people won't ever bother to ask for help when they actually need it! THAT is precisely why I have never posted my kitchen reveal! Why post if I know certain people will have nothing but negative comments? THAT was my point. All the snarkiness is pointless. Say what you need to say WITHOUT a side comment and actually help someone instead of bringing them down!

Stolenidentity if caps on a single word is yelling to you, I have no words. There was no yelling in my comment. There was emphasizing. If I knew how to type in italics maybe that would have been more to your liking? Your comment however was pretty rude. My "reveal" would have been great considering I got lots of advice from this forum. Sorry you have to miss out, but at least you won't have to sit on your hands just for me! On that note, I'm taking myself out of my own thread and getting back to reality. This was never meant to go to this extreme. It was so calm yesterday. Adults respecting adults. Most of the comments on here I respect and I can see their points, for the record. Carry on!

It was adults respecting adults when the thread was going the way YOU wanted it to go. When we started to get upset at some of your comments, you now decide we're not adults?

I don't think the problem is with those of us on this forum who comment, either bluntly or in a way you consider snarky. And no, not everyone is going to conform to your idea of decorum.

Made the mistake of not switching off notifications. Cpartist-this thread was never going my way. 99% of comments were about how I was wrong and they don't agree? Most yesterday wanted me to look at the bright side, not focus on one comment. Now comments are getting taken out of context on all sides, which is why I decided to excuse myself. I see your comments all around GW and have nothing but respect for your comments. You don't have to conform to me and I don't have to conform to you, btw. What I won't do is change what my OP said. I meant it, still do. Take all my other comments if you like out of the conversation. That OP is my thoughts. Not going to keep trying to defend my thoughts. We do not all have to agree. And please don't take adults respecting adults out of context from my mouth. To me that means pleasant conversation whether that means agree to disagree or just positive thoughts. What it means to you is that I meant you arent acting like an adult, and that's not the way I meant it to be portrayed for the record. Notifications off.

Funky & TG - it must be regional because I really did chuckle when I read "panties."

Must be, Romy. But it must be a wide region. Texas and Washington state are a long ways away. :)

Big girl panties, in reference to going from diapers to Barbie underwear, or whatever little girls are into these days. It's what you say when you're encouraging them to use the potty.

Pants is just the diminutive version of panties, from the diminutive for pantaloons. ''Smaller'' undergarments children or tweens. And certainly smaller than those of grownups.

Ashley, you did start this thread. You own it. You had to know it was going to be a provocative subject. And would stir the pot. You were successful; it did. Don't be disingenuous here. I have to agree with some posters - you appear to be the very thing you are criticizing.

I am just soaking in all the comments. For sure, a thread like this helps us understand folks better and help keep us civil the other 99% of the time.

I mean, really.. sometimes ya gotta have a thread like this so folks can blow off some steam and say things they want to say in other threads.

It is also a great way to learn how folks like to deal with questions and how readers like to deal with those answers. These threads are good....so long as they are not all the time.. heh

I, for one, have benefited from every single post I have read. I hang out here, not because I necessarily want more help (although I continue to learn more each time I log in), but more because I am hoping to give something back for that help.

Can people be mean at times? you bet. we all can.

Can the 'answers' sometimes be totally off base, and still be right? Sure. Take my choices for example.. while I think... no I know a lot of folks are right in their suggestions, in the end it is what I can afford and what I really like that matters.. until I sell.

Many, if not most, the suggestions are not based upon what we may like, but based upon what would 'sell'. From all that input, you pick and choose the things that are not about the sale, but about the 'smart'.. and THAT is why you wade through the good, the bad, and the ugly posts.

Now... back to my popcorn and show :P

Russ

I was intimated to post all of my layouts, etc. But guess what? I posted them because I knew people would be honest. You can ask people to follow your rules. But honestly, the people you're criticizing have offered an insane amount of expertise to strangers FOR FREE. They don't "need" to comment anything, they CHOOSE to. So if they choose to be snarky, accept it. Or don't post. We may live in an overly PC world, but you can't police public forums. I realize you had good intentions, but honestly, this reminds me of my eight year old who I'm pretty sure got on the bus this morning. It makes me want wine.

Wow. I see Ashley's point. Nothing wrong with bluntness. Mean and rude is another thing. There are a (very) few posters on this forum that I ignore for this reason.

Sure, use the forum to let off steam when other posters annoy us. But you're going to get steam back. Did it look like Ashley was feeling less steamed as the thread went on?

As an alternative to complaining on the forum when steamed, find something else to do. I'd suggest we all keep a package of those new addictive Oreo Thins on hand. Instant steam-release!

Let me clarify since I am evidently not clear. I did not mean to USE a forum post to let off steam.. I MEANT.. this sort of thread is a good way to say what you want to help make it a better place...things you would not normally say.

As an alternative to being sarcastic and aiming your comments at others, you should probably paint a room and show us the wonderful renovation pictures afterwards. The exercise and time of thought might do more good than starting a war of words.

I like the Oreo thin idea too. I tried to locate those last night when we were at the store... they had every single type of oreo you could imagine except those. No idea why. Dying to try them.

R

I think I ate them all.

dagnabbit.. I knew someone had! ;)

I doubt you're still reading this thread, Ashley, but in case you are ....

Typing in caps, even if it's just one word, while using multiple exclamation points is generally viewed as yelling on the 'net. There are friendlier ways to add emphasis to make a point: Add * before and after a word, like *this* or use the italics feature in the bar below the message window.

On a recent thread on a similar topic, I shared this bit of wisdom given to me about 15 years ago by a fellow forum co-administrator but it merits repeating, IMO. If a post makes you see red, wait 24 hours before responding. 99% of the time you'll see the post in a different light the next day and if you respond, you will be able to respond calmly. It saves wear and tear all around. Best bit of internet advice I ever received.

Sophie, I may start using "put on your big girl pantaloons" just for grins.

Russ, just a slight quibble with your statement that "Many, if not most, the suggestions are not based upon what we may like, but based upon what would 'sell'." That might have some true in the discussions related to finishes and colors as I rarely wade into those. But I don't think it has any truth when it comes to layout discussions. Layout discussions focus on function and efficiency, not what will sell. Although, a functional and efficient kitchen should make a kitchen more attractive for a sale...because who wouldn't want a functional, efficient kitchen?...the intent is for a better prep/cook/clean experience. :)

I agree Funky.. my point was more of a generalization. While structural changes may not be about what will sell, they are still more sell-able than naught.

Either way, the point of the statement was my goal, and to make that point I had to use a generalization or fall prey to not making a point at all :P

As my 12th grade English teacher said, and it is always true.. "to every rule there is an exception...there is even an exception to this one."

R