If the house is on the MLS a realtor is involved.

Not only is it on MLS, the agent listed is the deed holder. It's $155,000 today.

like someone else said, "you don't ask, you don't get." i made a few lowball offers before buying. in many instances they wouldn't even counter. not sure what your home was listed at. maybe i'd be less shocked at 50k less than asking if it was a million dollar ask than a 200k ask:) i understand your frustration though. we recently sold our co-op and got full ask within a few days of listing. the buyer was rejected by our [evil] board and we were forced to take an offer of 10k less almost a year later. frustrating indeed.

As a buyer, I just wanted to comment on this. We found a house we like that has been on the market a long time (months). We lowballed (big time) our first offer because we felt that if the sellers were motivated they'd be willing to negotiate. If a house has been sitting on the market, there's no reason not to at least try to get a better price. Why pay more for a house if you can negotiate a better price? Besides, usually a first offer is a starting point for a discussion. If you don't like their response, you can counter. Don't take it personally. It's not like they insulted you or your house. One agent told us "the only insulting offer is no offer at all". Keep in mind that your perception of your asking price being "well within norms" is based on the information you have on hand. You and your agent may be using different comps than the person making the offer. How is presenting an offer of any amount "wasting your time"? If you don't like the offer you don't even have to respond.

I have a close friend that looked at a house with an asking price of $4.7M. He offered $900K as that what is was worth to him. It needed lots of work. He went on and bought a house for $1.9M with an asking of $4.3, which didn't need much at all. First sellers came back a year later and begged him to pay the $900K for first house. He passed. A house is worth what a buyer will pay, period!

No, a house is only worth what a buyer is willing to pay and what the seller is willing to sell for.

That's right tete. It takes both parties to create a market.

An offer of $50,000 less on a $150,000 house is 1/3 less than asking. An offer of $50,000 less on a $1,500,000 house is chump change. It all depends on where you're starting from.

I once purchased a home at 60K under asking. The house was overpriced, by the emotional son of the owners. I knew the area values very well. They took the offer. It cost me all of that to repair and upgrade it over time.

I did think the post above indicating that the potential buyer thought it was appropriate to deduct $29,000 to remove a wall was funny though. Some buyers are indeed nuts. Wanting to reconfigure the space for your own purposes is not the same as deducting a reasonable amount for defects that need to be remedied.

I had "my" agent offer me 21% less than what the property was worth on the market. Apparently he was working for both the buyer and the seller. Bizarre Ontario legislation that lets them get away with that! How many seniors do they rip off like that? Also he seemed like he was in an incredible hurry to close the deal although he had just been hired 3 days previously and I did not have to close until 6 months time!

Your agent did not offer you anything. Sounds like he presented an offer that was much lower than your valuation. May well be that he is required to present any and all offers.

Have you read through this long old thread? Lots of good info.

Suzy, the local Board of Realtors requires agents to present all offers. I cannot imagine it is different in your area. The Realtor has no authority to decide not to present an offer.

First time I have heard a seller complain that he is getting offers sooner, rather than later.

Right, if you don't like the offer, counter. If somebody is forcing you to accept it against your will, go to the police.

It's just human nature I think. For the most part a person making a lowball offer has nothing to lose. They can't afford your property (but the want it) or they think they are making an offer more in line to what they believe the market price of the house is, and they believe another similar house will crop up for sale. For a buyer emotionally invested in the property (in it is just what they have been searching for) human nature dictates they will offer full price or close to so to not let the opportunity be lost.

It's also cultural to some extent. I've sold two houses in the last three years. We priced the house right at where the comps are (I.e., we didn't inflate the asking price). The first sold right at asking price. The second got a low ball offer. I was going to suggest the Don Corleone counter offer of more than asking price. But, my agent convinced me that since I didn't have Luca Brasi to back it up, I should offer a slight reduction in my price. Essentially, we asked $480K, was offered 455K and we dropped to 476. The agent was able to thwart a $468 counter by pointing out that another near-identical unit sold for our original asking price weeks earlier and they accepted our counter.

It is interesting what is interpreted as lowball in different areas. $455 on a $480 asking price is hardly lowball around here. Maybe it is because it is not a hot market?

Yeah, 5% reduction from asking is not really a lowball.

Depends on market conditions and cultural convention in a particular city. What one market would call an insultingly low offer is what another market would call standard procedure. Where I live, if you settle on a 3% reduction you got a pretty good deal. We've seen sellers snub their nose and counter with full on a 5% reduction.

Ron Natalie That actually happened to us. We offered fair market price on a slightly overpriced home. Not only did seller come back with full, they mentioned a few more costs they hadn't put in the listing. HOA fee was higher than they remembered, there was an abandoned sprinkler system on the property sold as-is that they just remembered having, etc. So their somewhat overpriced listing became a much more overpriced gamble. Still, they were convinced the listing price was already a steal.

When we were not impressed, their agent resorted to saying we won't go up because we can't afford it. We walked. We came across that listing a few days ago. Still for sale.

We've seen sellers snub their nose and counter with full on a 5% reduction.

Yeah, but that doesn't make it a lowball offer. My next door neighbor has had his townhouse on the market for a couple of years now, at 174K (last sale price here was 140K), and a year or so ago he got an offer of $170K, which he spurned. That didn't make them lowballers; it just shows he doesn't really want to sell.

I put an offer that was 9% under list for a house that was overpriced for for the condition (it had tens of thousands of dollars worth of deferred maintainance) and showed horribly. The sellers were so shocked at the low-ball that they opted not to counter at the time. They came back to me a few weeks later wanting to make a deal, but by that time I was under contract with another house that was a better option.

They are still on the market. Some people just aren't motivated to sell that much.

Yeah, but that doesn't make it a lowball offer.

When rejection of such offers is standard practice in your city, and not just one or two exceptions, you have to adjust your perception of lowball. Many houses here get multiple offers within the same week, and they don't need discounted prices to do it. Our agent routinely advised us to not go below 3% on offers.

The buyer of our condo originally lowballed us. The buyer came in with an offer that was 16.5% lower than asking price. We knew we were priced fairly based on the comps, although we didn't realize at the time how much the 6 other condos being built around us would hurt our market.

Later on we found out our buyer bid what he/she could comfortably afford. We knew the buyer loved the condo because they kept asking all sorts of questions, came around to talk to the front desk a few times, had friends in the building, etc.

We originally countered by dropping our price by $9,000, which in our price range was peanuts. And we didn't hear from the buyer for well over a month. At which point the buyer came back to us and had upped their offer enough that we felt we could negotiate with them. We settled on a price that was 6% off our original price.

We agreed to that price because while the year before everything in our building sold quickly, this past year things had started to slow down. (Those 6 new condos being built around us!) Ours was the only condo in our building, in the six month period to sell at that price. The only other two to sell in the 6 month period needed to be completely updated (last updated in the 80's/90's) and sold for about 1/3 less than ours did.

As it was, the price we got for our condo was still one of the highest paid in the past 7 years in our building so we were quite happy. (Everything was in perfect working order, and the place had been completely updated without being too taste specific.)

It turned out that the buyer had a child who was very successful financially and insisted on paying the difference so their parent could afford to buy our condo. They bought the condo together.

My point being you never know why or why not someone lowballs you and you should still counter every offer. In our case, it wound up working in our favor.

And the minute you put your house on the market, stop thinking of it as YOUR house. Think of it instead as a business commodity.

stop thinking of it as YOUR house. Think of it instead as a business commodity.

Sellers often remember that back-breaking weekend of labor it took to plant the privacy hedge, or how many ramen-noodle dinners they ate to build an addition, and they feel like a million bucks worth of effort went into their house. Buyers were not there when that stuff happened and thus do not care.

Another way to think of it is that you are the keeper of the house for the time you live in it. You don't own a house because any well built home will long outlast you. So think of it as you passing the house to the next keeper.

Hopeforthebest, are you saying that you would consider someone offering 3% below asking price on a property priced 21% over market a lowball?

If so, I guess I'm just glad it's unlikely I'll ever be in negotiations with you :-)

writersblock I'm just complaining a little about the market in my city. Properties in my area never lost a whole lot in the recession. They took somewhat of a hit, but for various reasons there was never a big bust. I could see a seller in my city starting a thread like this OP. For buyers (like me) it sucks, but it is what it is.

It matters what the asking price is. If the asking price is competitive, any reduction is low ball. If you assume the asking price is inflated, then you can play your percentage games.

Thanks for the clarification, Hopeforthebest.

I am talking about the real estate listing a condo at 20000 dollars below the city property assessment and then selling it for even less than that. You assume that a real estate agent you have hired is representing you and knows the fair market value of your property. This is not so. He did not even give me the last years figures for equivalent properties. I was very sick at the time and wasn't paying proper attention! He sold it in a day as it was at bargain basement price! Equivilant properties in the condo building are selling for 320 to 330,000 dollars not 250000$! Have I been scammed? The buyer and the seller real estate agents were from the same company. It was barely listed before he sold it!

I don't understand. Did you give the realtor power of attorney to accept an offer without your involvement? You had nothing to do with the process once the realtor was engaged? No say in whether to accept an offer or counter?

I'm also confused. Were you sick when your realtor first came up with the price? Were you sick when you hired the realtor? When did you discover these other selling prices? Are they really equivalent (in terms of appliances, decoration, floor condition, etc) or just in the same building? Did you have a short sale/estate sale situation?

Did you talk to more than one realtors when choosing the listing agent? Did you have an RE attorney review buyer's offer before you accepted it?

Seems like there are a lot of sleezeball realtors out there who will steal from you if they can rather than earning their commission by doing some work! There don't seem to be any controls on them in the Toronto area either! Should definitely have attorney review any "deal" made by these "representatives" before signing it. Thank you to the last commenter for the helpful advice! It is silly to think that they actually represent you in Ontario just because you are paying them to represent you.

Perceptive, it really is dificult to list and sell a property for significantly less than market value if it is exposed to the market. A property priced far below market value will generate multiple offers which will then raise the sales price closer to the true market value.

There is really not a benefit to a Realtor to list a property extremely below market value, unless agreed to by the owner.

It worked really easily as the two agents from the same real estate company handled it- they were buyer and seller. It was done really quickly - listed for less than a day and then taken off really quickly. I was given 24 hours to sign. It was obviously prearranged! I can see it now. A man in my building just died so I guess the two Elios will be in there "taking care" of his property....They may even get the coppers from his eyes this time!

Why do people make lowball offers? Nothing to lose.

Perceotive, If you think you were the victim of a crime you go to the police. If you think you were scammed, talk to a lawyer.

Some people are just not good at looking out after their own interests. If it was elder abuse, get somebody to help you. Don't whine on an anonymous forum.

Good luck.

I am not whining -I am stating facts and warning other retirees about this scam that can lose them part of their retirement funds - the equity on their property. Beware of paying real estate scammmers to ROB you of what is yours!

Like others have said, talk to a lawyer.

Thanks. After reading the comments I understand the process or what is supposed to happen in the process better. I can see why many people are electing to sell their own properties without a real estate agent if my experience is not exceptional!

Have a lawyer and he is on it! He is actually representing ME like I am paying him to do and one would expect!

Negotiating 101: Your goal is to sell your house to someone who will pay what you want for it. That's it. Counter an offer you perceive as "insultingly low" the same way you would counter an offer you perceive as a little too low. If they will not meet your walk-away price then walk away. Attaching so much drama to an arm's length business transaction that may well end up being a price you're okay with is SILLY.

We listed our condo at 350k and one buyer offered 320k. A few months ago, 2 condos next to us sold at 345k without a furnished attic and basement (ours have them). I had no idea why that one buyer would try to low-ball us. We ended up accepting an offer at asking price from another buyer. The low-ball buyer later kept calling my agent and said she would pay full price (or higher) if the other buyer backed out. She insisted she's been "monitoring" our neighborhood, waiting to buy, and really love our condo. Yes, she said she loved it.

Honestly I would have picked the low-ball buyer if she had offered asking price to begin with. Big down payment, stable job, best credit score and all that. We're in a seller market region, I simply don't understand why some buyers would still give low-ball offer if they really LOVE THE HOUSE. I sure didn't myself.

Maybe she got bad advice from someone. Happens a lot, especially when buyers are influenced by family members. You have no way to know, but it happens all the time.

A lot of times, buyers come from an area that has a totally different type of market and no matter what their agent advises them, they swear they are right in trying to lowball, even in a hot market.

I think it might be family members in many cases.

The former owners of my house dropped their price over 4% the day their listing popped up into our price range. We still ended up paying 9% below their already lowered price. They were chasing the real estate market downward, and our timing was such that we bought at the bottom of the market. Additionally, they wanted to buy a home in a community that had only one unit left, so they were getting desperate to sell, having never anticipated a real estate collapse and having their house on the market for over a year. They got what the market would bear, and we offered a price that was a mixture between what we could afford and what we felt it was worth. It's not personal...most homeowners start out pricing high, hoping to see what they can get. Ultimately, they sold their house for 21% below their initial asking price, in what was already a significantly declining market.

Some people make lowball offers, some people ask highball prices. Ultimately, the "fair" price is what someone will pay for what someone is selling.

I can't believe this thread is still going?! But an interesting update on the house I listed above.

"House 1 (3 bed/2 bath 1273 sq feet) just put on the market at $275,000, but lowered to $185,000 a week later, and even lower to $175,000 the next week"

I said I wouldn't buy the house for $118,000 (the house next door to it sold for that), and it sold for $110,000. You can price it however you want. You have to put the shoe on the other foot, if you were buying it would you pay that? That's how you have to look at it. You have to realize, other people are looking at it with that same critical eye, and are likely just as smart as you are. Sure that realtor wanted to sell it for $275,00, and our market was cooking on a high boil, but no one was about to pay that for it. I think overpricing a house can cause a lot of heartache all around.