Kitchen Design Help! Completely rearrange or appliances in two corners
I need some design help in this kitchen. It would be an easy
set-up if not for two issues: There are windows essentially all along the back
wall (can’t put gas range there), and I am tearing down the front wall to about
where the counter top starts to angle. I have three designs drawn using free
software, and I am not sure which one will turn out the best.
I am looking to do the remodel as cheaply as possible, but I
do not want to sacrifice efficiency and design.
Below are my notes for each design.
Design 1: This one has the gas range in the bottom right
corner, and the refrigerator on the right wall as far up as it goes. The issue
with this one is the space between the range and refrigerator is pretty small,
and when I do the 3D view, it makes the kitchen look cramped. The 2D model
makes it look like a lot of space, but it doesn’t seem to show up that way in
3D. This layout would be the easiest, but I’m afraid it will make the kitchen
feel smaller than it actually is.
Design 2: Having the refrigerator in the upper right corner, and the range in the bottom right corner. The refrigerator would be
close to the end of the pass through window would be. This set up allows
good counter space on either side of all appliances, and makes the kitchen
appear larger since I don’t have two appliances butting up to one another.
However I am concerned about the extra space both appliances would take in the
corner position. Especially considering the width of the kitchen is just 11’
2”. Also, the space between the sink and refrigerator is pretty small.
Design 3: Moving the range to where the sink is now, and moving the sink/dish washer to the back wall in front of the windows. This would work, however I would need a range hood over the stove, which will partially block the opening, which is the whole purpose of knocking down the wall. This layout leaves plenty of cabinet space between appliances and really opens up the kitchen. I would need to move the gas line/water lines for this to work, however. The main concern on this design is the range hood blocking the open concept feeling of the space and having a range below a pass through bar, as well as moving both water and gas lines.
Below are the measurements of the kitchen, with the layout of design 2.
There is currently about a 2 foot header. If I can I plan on removing the post to the left of the cabinets. If that is not possible/too much, then I will make the pass thru go to about the end of the cabinets and frame it with mouldings, etc. Below are pictures of the current kitchen. Currently the entire back wall has no bottom cabinets, so the only counter top space available is what shown.
Thank you all!
Comments (22)
sheloveslayouts
8 years agoCan you move the door near the windows to the other end of the wall so it's adjacent to the entrance from the dining area?
If not, I'd start with something like this arrangement :
loadedlongboard1 thanked sheloveslayoutsRelated Discussions
Can you help rearrange my kitchen cabinets? Lots of pix
Comments (12)Any particular reason you put the sink across from the range? There was a pretty exhaustive discussion of why not to do that in Small Kitchen & Dining Room thread, and also in the thread about what ranges are safest for kids (link below) (the title of that thread was sarcastic--the point was that kitchen design, not range choice, is what influences whether you have accidents/burns happening). The basic problem is that if the range and sink are across from each other, you are designing a kitchen in which accidents are waiting to happen because you force yourself to walk across the kitchen with hot water and hot and/or dirty pans. It's especially dangerous if you have pets or small kids or if pets/kids are ever guests in your house, but the danger is only reduced, not eliminated, if pets/kids are not an issue. A galley or modified galley like you're proposing is fine, but it is MUCH SAFER to put the sink and range on the same side, and the fridge/freezer on the opposite side. There is no safety advantage to putting the fridge on the same run as another fixture (i.e. sink or range), but there is a major advantage to putting the sink and range on the same run: you can empty your boiling pasta water, take pans to the sink after you use them, etc., without ever walking across the open floor. So there is no opportunity for kids or pets to get underfoot or in the way, or for you to slip, and drop hot things on kids/pets/the floor. Given your constraints, I would suggest putting the sink on the same run as the range and the wall oven on the fridge run. Putting a wall oven there is way less dangerous than putting the range there, first off because using a wall oven never involves pots of boiling water, and second because usually when people take things out of the oven the first thing they do is set them on the counter to cool--so stuff would come out of the wall oven and be set down beside it to cool; stuff would not be carried, hot, across the kitchen. But I think what would actually make the most sense here, since you have a longer run on the bottom, is to put DW, sink and range along the bottom, and move the fridge and freezer up to the top. They should probably go on the end where the wall oven is shown, so put either a pullout or a couple of feet of counter between them--from right to left it would go freezer, fridge, counter or pullout, wall oven, more counter. Here is a link that might be useful: Thread on burn-safe kitchen design...See MoreNeed help for our kitchen design -- complete newbies
Comments (23)I love your angled walls and octagon shapes and think your kitchen/dining area is going to be incredible. Since nobody uses your garage entrance except family, I think entering through laundry is just fine. Even if you are coming home from a Costco run because I would imagine that a lot of that Costco stuff is going into the pantry, right? So, really it's a straight shot. I would make the wall opposite w/d as a mini-mudroom type of set up. Although, really, I do agree that it would be best to move W/D upstairs near bedrooms so do share your upstairs floor plan with us so we can help you do that. In our previous 2-story with bedrooms upstairs, we moved W/D to the master bath upstairs and it was, by far, the best thing we ever did in that house. Of course, if W/D are moved upstairs, that whole room would make a great mudroom and give you lots of landing space. Someday, a future family with kids will thank you for both changes. I actually like your current fridge location but I think that's because I don't like the look of fridges and always want them off where they are less noticeable as long as they are still in a place that makes sense for ice-water-stone-fire. And I think it achieves that where it's at. But it would work fine on the other side if you choose. But, yes, please consider a smaller island with a larger prep sink with adequate counter on each side of the sink. In your original island plan, your sink was so close to the edge that you would have to put food to the right of the sink and then put it back where when done washing it. So much easier to have unwashed on one side, wash it, then clean food moves to the other side. While I like the two island ideas much better than the huge continent-sized island you originally had, I question whether a second island is necessary. You have a LOT of counter space and really don't need a second island for buffet service, imho. Get rid of the desk, make it into a beverage center that would work for both coffee or drinks, and use that area for buffet service. If budget allows, I'd put another small beverage sink there to make coffee/tea/drink-mixing convenient, and a small beverage fridge and/or wine cooler. Or both. You have the room. If budget doesn't allow for all this now,I'd plumb and wire for it and add them later when money frees up. Instead of the second island, I'd go for more comfortable seating as well. I totally agree with AnnKH that you have room for a sitting area and you should go for it. Our remodel is allowing for that and even though we're far from done (DIY takes time), those comfy loveseats are getting a lot of use. It so welcoming and I appreciate people sitting there to visit with me. It keeps them out of my work zone but close enough to chat. If you search through threads here, most people dislike desks for all the reasons previously stated. I love the idea of including a file drawer and storage for office supplies and, really, with laptops and tablets, you can sit anywhere. I'd be sitting in one of those comfy chairs. :) Unless I needed space to spread out papers, then your island or dining room table will do nicely. I really look forward to seeing your final plans and your reveal. I just love the space you're working with....See MoreNewbies need advice and opinion on kitchen design and appliances
Comments (42)I need to warn you. I'm not one of the talented design gurus here, just an interested amateur. I think Lisa was working with the wrong dimensions, correct? I wrote them on the diagram. Please let me know if they're correct. If so, cpartist is right. You don't have room for an island. I left off your peninsula only because you never answered the question Lisa asked: If a peninsula is put in the location in your original plan, will you have at least 60" from the edge of the peninsula to the edge of your dining table? That is the minimum needed to have seating at both and still have room to walk if people are seated at both locations. Anyway, the best I could do is this: First, let me know if the dimensions are accurate. I didn't bother to draw uppers in on the fridge wall. The blue line will be about 117" fro the end of the counter to the edge of the kitchen. The yellow line measure will be about 86" from north counter edge to south counter edge and about 81" across where the fridge is (unless you get a true counter-depth/built-in). A lot of people do something a bit different in kitchens like yours that adds counter space and storage. They go with 30" deep counters. This adds a lot more counter space and, if you get custom cabinets, also a lot more storage with the deeper drawers. It will allow you to make a regular fridge look more built-in as the counter-depth will come out to the fridge door (you do need to allow for door swing). It also gives more space behind the range for less grease splatter on the backsplash and behind the sink for cleaning items (or pretties). If you do that, the north/south green line would be 74" and the east/west will be 105". Without an island or other blockage, there is plenty of room to walk from fridge to sink so crossing over the cook's area isn't a problem. It's not the most creative layout but it is a functional one. I know your wife wants some glass uppers. I wouldn't recommend them right next to the range and hood due to potential grease collection in that proximity, harder to keep clean. Also, keep in mind, your hood should be larger than your cooktop. I think you're going for a 36" cooktop? If so, you need a 42" hood. With a 30" cooktop, you need a 36" hood. If you go with the wider hood and have a couple inches clearance on each side before the upper cabinets start, then glass doors there should work fine. Hope this helps a bit. Have you read the "New to Kitchens? Read Me First" thread? If not, please do. It kinda bounces around from pages 1-3....See MoreHelp with kitchen design, trying to decide between two layouts
Comments (79)You know, I agree with you that the island perpendicular to the window wall doesn't feel as right as the island parallel to the window wall. Interesting. I stopped and thought about why that would be. My first thought was that, with the island perpendicular to the window wall, the end of the island closest to the living room now feels as if it's intruding into the walkway between the kitchen and living room. Even though the island ends in line with the side of the fridge closest to the living room, the island still feels as if it's intruding. However, when I look at the island parallel to the window, I also think the end of the island closest to the dining room feels as if it is intruding into the dining room. Even though the island ends in line with the side of the perimeter cabinet closest to the dining room, the island still feels as if it's intruding. So when you're standing in the living room, you like the perpendicular-to-the-window-wall island orientation less (because the island feels as if it's intruding towards you). And when you're standing in the dining room, you'll like the parallel-to-the-window-wall island orientation less (because the island feels as if it's intruding towards you). Given all that, I actually think this shape island (posted earlier upthread) feels the best from both perspectives: That is because the island is completely and clearly inside the invisible borders of the kitchen as delineated by the side of the fridge closest to the living room and the side of the perimeter cabinet closest to the dining room. A square (ish) island doesn't even touch the borders -- it's well inside them by a foot or two, making it impossible for the island to feel as if it's intruding into another room. This home layout is so open that it lacks some of the normal cues (walls/doorways/floor changes) marking where the kitchen ends and another room begins. So in this island's case, a setback from the technical kitchen border helps to clarify things. The island's definitely in the kitchen and only in the kitchen. Here is an edited version that stops the island a foot or two short of the borders in both directions: I'd recommend having seating just on the living room side of the island. Seating on the dining room side puts those chairs back to back with dining room chairs, and I always think that looks/functions a bit oddly....See More
Buehl
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoSo I spent some time trying to figure out your dimensions...are these correct? The blue text & lines are those I tried to determine. (It would have been much easier if they had been labeled and on graph paper - even if the layout was hand-drawn - to be honest, hand-drawn on graph paper layouts are usually easier to read than IKEA Planner and similar software.)
From the pictures, it looks like the doorways lead to the DR (top) and a hall that leads out to the Bed Rooms? Is that correct? What about a back door? Is it in that hallway as well?
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loadedlongboard1 thanked BuehlBuehl
8 years agoBuehl
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoHere's an idea...but it has different modifications.
NOTE: The layout is based on the above measurements.
The wall to the DR is remade - 27" wall segments on each side and a 132" opening in the middle. This opens up the kitchen and gives you more options - much more functional options, IMHO.
Expand the left doorway (to a hall?) to 42" wide
Construct a 5' wide reach-in pantry (much less expensive than pantry cabinets and much more efficient). It has 12" deep shelves - deep enough for just about anything you can think of without being so deep that things get lost. I had 18" deep shelves in my old kitchen and they were too deep - things got lost all the time! I now have 12" deep shelves and things rarely get lost. With constructed pantry, you can utilize the entire space - floor to ceiling - and you can see everything at one time (no opening drawers/doors trying to find something in deep shelves).
Upper cabinets are minimized to give the room a more open feel. (The Pantry is instrumental in making this possible.)
The refrigerator is standard depth and is recessed into the wall behind it 2 or 3 inches (but no more so you don't have to take space from the room behind it and so the refrigerator doors extend out past the 27" wall on the one side and the 25.5" deep counters on the other side.) If you cannot recess it into the wall b/c of plumbing or HVAC that you don't want to move, then get a counter-depth. Counter-depth refrigerators cost more than standard, but they can be worth it if they make the layout work.
It has an island for dish & glass storage. The upper left corner of the island can be either a 21" cabinet or a single seat - your choice.
The single-bowl 30" sink base separates the Cleanup Zone and the primary Prep Zone.
The primary Prep Zone is b/w the sink and the range. It has 42" of workspace (not counting the corner) + 12" next to the range. That's a nice amount of space. It's in front of the windows for the most part so it should be a pleasant place to prep.
The Cleanup Zone is on the other side of the sink with the DW and a 24" cabinet for silverware, glasses, etc. There are 48" of counterspace on that side. It can also work as an additional Prep Zone in a pinch, but it's not ideal b/c of the DW and its distance from the refrigerator and range.
The trash pullout is in the primary Prep Zone but easily accessible from the Cooking Zone and Cleanup Zone.
The island serves as both additional dish storage (both plates/bowls type of dishes as well as prep dishes like mixing bowls, etc.) There are 45" of space there to be allocated however you want (all one cabinet or 24" + 21" cabs or some other configuration.) I also included another option with 48" of cabinets facing the range & refrigerator. I would design it based on what type of storage you need in the island - a lot of serving dish storage vs prep & cooking storage and/or small appliances.
The island also serves as a secondary Prep Zone. It's not primary b/c there is no water in it.
The Cooking Zone is in the most protected part of the kitchen - as it should be.
In fact, through-traffic will not go through any of the three primary work zones b/c the shortest distance will be to the left of the island - people generally take the shortest distance b/w two points - no matter how convenient/inconvenient that path may be.
The MW is mounted under the upper cabinet b/w the refrigerator and range. The refrigerator will help hide it from general view - many people don't like the look of a MW. Personally, I don't mind it, but if you're someone who does, this will be an advantage. It's also next to the refrigerator and out of the main work zones (Prep, Cooking, Cleanup) so someone MWing a snack or even food for the meal will not get in the way of others working in the kitchen. Most food to be MW'd comes from the refrigerator/freezer, so it's location is convenient. It's not next to water, but water isn't too far away.
The refrigerator's landing zone can be either the island or the counter b/w it and the range - I would prefer the island, but both are available.
The refrigerator is located so it's easily accessed from both the kitchen and the DR and. possibly the LR, although I don't know for certain b/c I don't know where it is!
The island can act as landing space for groceries destined for either the pantry or the refrigerator.
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Layout:
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Zone Map:
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Optional island:
loadedlongboard1 thanked BuehlBuehl
8 years agoBuehl
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoA few more measurements....and what is that white box on the far left (outlined in purple below)? Is it a permanent structure that cannot be moved? Or, is it cabinets or something else that's just part of this particular layout?
Labels from starting on the bottom left and going clockwise:
A =
B =
C =
D =
E =
F =
G =
H =
loadedlongboard1
8 years agoA = 3.25"
B = 101"
C = 3.25"
D = 150"
E = 34"
F = 12"
G = 41"
H = 49"
Please see layout below with updated measurements.
The purple box that you colored in is just a large kitchen pantry cabinet. It can be removed. See image below.
Buehl
8 years agoUser
8 years agoloadedlongboard1
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoHi Buehl,
Thanks for all of your work on this. I really like your layout, it is very open and user friendly. I was trying to keep part of the original set up to cut down on extra expenses (additional cabinets, new flooring most likely, etc), but if the cost is not too expensive then your plan is much more attractive.
I have a couple questions I wanted to get your input/advice on:
- Why have 27" wall segments at each end of the kitchen? Are you using that size to match the refrigerator depth? Is this necessary? Would it look weird/not be symmetrical if the wall segments were 24" or a little smaller (reason for this #3)? I plan on getting a counter-depth refrigerator.
- Can the wall segment depths differ? I understand the 27" segment is required to cover the refrigerator, but on the other side if I could make it a 20"-24" it would open up that side of the room. Since that side will only have a 12" depth pantry, the 27" makes the entrance to the right of the island (facing the kitchen) appear smaller when there is ample aisle way space on that side (the largest in the kitchen)
- I would like to have a little bit larger island if possible, a 50 L x 54 W. If I make the wall segment on the left (away from kitchen) 20", then I can move the island towards that wall to still allow good aisle way space. This would give me 45" aisle ways and a 44" opening from island counter to the wall segment (see image below).
4. There is nothing where "A" is located in the above diagram. Would you recommend leaving this empty, or just extending the 60" pantry by an additional 10-12 inches?5. I am working on the layout sketch now. Below is what I have right now. Also, which program are you using to create your sketches? The one I am using is pretty clumsy imo.
Thanks again for all of the help. These ideas are really great.
dreamhouseforsomeday
8 years agoBuehl
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoBuehl
8 years agoBuehl
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoBuehl
8 years agoBuehl
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoBuehl
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoBuehl
8 years agolast modified: 8 years agoHere it is...
The aisle b/w the pantries and the island is down to 46". However, I think it will be OK since you won't really be working on that aisle.
I removed the wall altogether. I did not move the refrigerator or the pantry into the former wall space, but you could, if you wanted to.
(The Zone map is the same as the previous layout from a few days ago.)
loadedlongboard1Original Author