@browncoat

I have read every response and accept the opinions openly as consideration on the matter. And I have had no other issues with any other responders except for you. As you can see from my responses to them.

The reason for my reaction to your post is that you did in fact take my words and twist them or use them in a way that was not intended in at least one situation that I can think right now, in your initial response. I don't have time to go back through and read through all of it again, but I did read it several times through initially to be sure I didn't miss anything, etc.

So again in your second response, you made assumptions about me that are incorrect and also twisted my words yet again. No, I am no interested in that type of response because it isn't helpful or productive. I did not write my first post to hear form people like you, and this will be my last response to you. When you open with a line like "I don’t want you to take offense to this, because... (And sometimes I speak a little too bluntly, so I apologize if I offend you – that really isn’t my intention!!)" But then follow it with a basic attack on me, my intent and my life, that is absolutely harsh and snarky, and too blunt. So you lead with an apology because you probably knew that you were making assumptions about things you knew nothing of.

I was able to respond to everyone else's posts kindly and answer their questions, and only you have caused a problem here. You are still trying to turn the entire post and me into something other than reality. That because I stated that my fin ace was handsome as part of a description or picture of him, somehow lead to me being afraid that he would find someone else attractive so all women must be banished. I have no doubt that there will be other women he crosses paths with that he finds attractive or men that I find attractive. That is not the point.

I absolutely take offense to the way that you still make me out to be a liar for actually caring about my intended and his well being because I want to hear from him every night. He needed to be the one to make contact because he had his phone set up for calling me via wi-fi when he was back at the hotel, and it wasn't as easy for me to initiate the contact. So he knew going into it that I'd wait for his call since he was the one on the trip with all of the activities.

And you don't know ANYTHING about me or my fiancé. Which is why most of your words are useless. All anon anyone can do in here is base their response on the info that is provided, but hat's not what you did here. You made tons of assumptions but did not position them as such, only positioned them as absolute truth. And if someone comes to a forum like this seeking opinions of others, obviously it's because there is an issue that is in question. Obviously we are disagreeing on things, and obviously I sought out opinions on whether those things can be overcome or not. But the fact that you like to use little insults like point out a typo {because I was obviously typing fast and furious) just points to the kind of person you are. As if I am an idiot because I didn't proof read the entire post and has a typo before pressing submit. The advice of others in this forum AND in my personal life have suggested that we go to marriage counseling and that is part of the reason that we have already made an appointment. So thank you for making one valid point.

Stripping is a way of making money, and I understand that is some people's choice. Does it mean that I have to support them by myself or my fiancé going there and tipping them or being patrons of their business? No. The only judgment that I am making is that it's not the right choice for me and my life partner. Does that make me a bad person? No. I wish them all the best, but it's not what I want in my life. It's all about life choices. Does that make sense? And then you go on to say how judgmental I am of strippers, etc by stating the story of mary and Jesus stating "Jesus certainly did not judge. “Judge not, lest ye be judged,” right? There is a certain hypocrisy and irony in using a mask of piety to judge." … Let me be clear here. I an NO Jesus. I am just a regular human being who is doing the best I can. And no one can compare themselves to Him. So let's be careful when we bring the Holy One into the conversation as we throw daggers. Let's not use His name in vain. You are right about irony, because there is also an irony in your statement about "judge not" because you are judging me as well. So that's fun. It's all a circle. Be cautious as you take a stance behind scripture. You may be doing the very thing that you are speaking against.

Finally I am not forcing my intended into lying to me. That is also a choice. And he can either be honest with me and we can work it out, or he can be honest with me and we can split up, or he can NOT be honest with me and I find out or don't find out. These are all choices or life things that happen in life. At the end of the day, I'm not holding a gun to his head and he can do what he wants. And then I have to do what I want or need. We are talking about the possibility of ending a relationship that was intended for marriage. I came seeking help in that area, not personal attack. We all make choices and there are choices to be made now. That was the intent of the original question. Thanks for trying to not be too blunt. But you kinda were. The last hint I water form this post was to get into a text battle with a total stranger. Can't we all just get along? I was seeking advice and opinion that would actually help, not to duke it out on the world wide web.

I think it's only fair to give the OP the benefit of the doubt with regard to what she states as being factually true. I don't know a reason why someone would come here, to anonymous people, seeking an opinion and then lie about the fundamental facts on which people will base their advice. The advice would be inaccurate and misleading at best, not helping the OP resolve or think differently about her situation.

KBH - Honeychild, You have no business marrying this
guy. I am going to be quick and to the
point. Unless your man is Stephen
Hawking in your first marriage, someone like you will only realize the
importance of what "too controlling" is on your 3rd marriage, because
only a miracle at this point will save this one. You are going to build up anger and
resentment against everything he does and everywhere he goes and he is going to
turn you off which is going to make you even more mad. Counseling, PRE-MARITAL?! You should just
throw in the towel right now! Bottom
line, Browncoat nailed it, and she sounds smart, mimi had good points too but, you, not so much on the convincing side just yet.

Im a Catholic myself, and if my man wanted
to see others boobies, fine, as long as hes coming home to mine every night or
at the end of trips, I will do more than just show them to him. I can tell you this, a year or two down the
road, as soon as he sees the neighbors wifes boobies, I think coveting them is
the first thing hes gonna do, after that, you will find out more after the divorce.

I commend you on your principles, however, we don't live
in the 1950s anymore, with the internet and social networking, your attitude
will only push him away. And this is way
bigger than just the boobs, wait til you talk about finances, you might as well
tap out now and save yourself some frustration because you are gonna try to
control that too and he will end up hiding money in the sconces above the
fireplace.

Men aren't that smart, or they lack common sense, but I
can tell you this much, you start acting like this now, his instinct is going
to take him elsewhere by nature. He is a man and it is out of your control, and
the whole Jesus take the wheel is gonna come out and your man will be gone and
you will be pissed and you wont know why.
Everyone else in the world, however, will!

*****Look, if there is anything you take away from this post, it should be this, fight the battles that you know you are going to win, don't fight the ones that you wont********

Men seeing other boobs, for godsake hun, you need to get over that one. That's all men want to see! He knows that you don't want him to go, but you should know that he wants to go. You should go with him! See how he reacts to things being done to others in the club, then you go home and you do those things to him. Men are wired one way and its not with their brain!

Good luck in planning your wedding but 1 other thing I can think of is that, why haven't you included him,? Again, you making decisions, and him not. There may be things that he wants. My man wanted legos on all the tables at the reception. That was all he wanted and he was happier than anyone else there. Stop trying to run the show, yourself, fight the battles you can win, and put out. Happily ever after!

@mimipadv

Thank you for your thoughtful words and insight. I think you brought up a great point about "It's important to contemplate WHY he lied to you.

Did he not want to let you down? Did he not want to face your anger (avoidance)? Are you setting the groundwork for a parent-child relationship here?

If your intended needs to lie to you to be who he is, he will resent you. If you continue to expect him to be obedient to you, he will resent you. If he continues to be himself, and not who you want him to be, you will resent him."

And I think this point you bring up is a huge part of what we are struggling with. We both have things that we want to feel in control of. I think all people do. But what form is the relationship taking? I strive for a team and supportive mentality. I want intimacy so badly. Does he want the same things? And how do we interpret the others intentions? Do I want obedience, or do I want and need agreement on basic fundamentals? And do we really agree on those things, or enough of them to remain in line with one another?

Just because he went to the strip club once {yes it was against my wishes and he told me he wouldn't and it feels like a huge betrayal} but it was once, does that mean that he is "strip club guy?" The struggle is that he lied and it was about something that I feel strongly about. I'm sure I've told him lies about things before. But this was a big one for me. Not a "little white lie." I am sure that if we do still get married there will be times when he is not 100% honest with me, because we are human. Maybe it's a time when I need a lie, like 'honey does this make me look fat?' Or maybe it's something bigger, like he is emotionally or otherwise involved with someone from work. Or who knows. I pray that I never have to hear the latter. But the truth is that we can never 100% KNOW what our future holds. And while most ,arraigns begin with the best of intensions, it doesn't always hold up. I guess that's just life.

Since my original post my fiancé and I have talked a lot about the situation, and he has said that he was so sorry and he shouldn't have done it and he doesn't even care about strip clubs, it was just for the party for his friend and he didn't know that the strip club was on the agenda before he went, etc. I don't think he has ever been to a strip club previously in the time that we have been together, and I the only time I think I'd ever worry about him going is if there is a Bachelor party. Basically, I'm saying I don't think that he is the guy that wants to go all the time, but he went this time when he knew how I felt about it. It's the doing of something when he made a promise and knew how I felt about it, and with our wedding 45 days away, it makes you think about standing in front of that person at the altar and making promises to the other person and wondering if they will just be piss in the wind or actually hold up to the test of time.

Life is hard and relationships are harder. I think marriage is the hardest thing most people will ever do. Because even a good marriage is the joining of 2 people with different backgrounds, baggage and for lack of a better word, CRAP. I think it's time to draw the post to a close and focus on whether or not we are the best match for all of the reasons, not just for this one thing. And maybe we aren't and if we aren't I have to somehow be ok with that and trust that the right person will come my way. Or be ok with the fact that maybe they won't. It's just hard sometimes to decipher what's right in front of you. Is someone dying to tell me that this isn't the best for my life? Or is someone else trying to steal and destroy the best thing by revealing every little flaw all at once? I just wish it was clearer. Thanks for all the comments and for trying to help me sort through this.

The exact same situation was in a letter to "Dear Amy" in Monday's paper, before this was posted. Hmmm.

Haha @sushipup1 that wasn't me but I wonder what the outcome was?! I'm going to search for it now. Is Dear Amy online?

And now I totally understand why I've never posted in a forum like this in my life, and will never do so again. @Triathalon Vixen we are obviously not the same, nothing alike, and what's best for your life, will never be best for mine, so why would you even comment on my post? Your words aren't really helpful even though I'm sure you are trying to be. Or hope at least. Did you even read my posts? I have given him control in our wedding planning where he wants to have it, but I also understand he is a man and I can't expect him to care about certain aspects of the wedding planning. I just can't. And if I do expect him to, I'm setting myself up for disappointment. I just can't read this stuff anymore. People aren't dying to help. They are trying to continue to further destroy.

If you cant get it through your stubborn head, the destruction IS your help. You're right we aren't alike. Im in a marriage that will last longer than the reception.

Look. The point is that he knew what is important to her, promised he'd abide by it, and then didn't. For me, that's it! Whether she's unreasonable or not isn't of any matter. If he thought she is unreasonable then he shouldn't have said he wouldn't go.

kb,

It might help if you realize that marriages aren't fairy tales. Half of them fail for various reasons. If you think you two will be in perfect harmony and not have secrets and lie to each other, you're being delusional. I lie to my wife frequently and she lies to me too. Not over big things. For example, she'll ask me to buy something at the grocery store. I see the price and decide it's too expensive and i'll get it when it's on sale. I tell her they didn't have it in stock or I couldn't find it.

Both of you will do things together, but each of also needs to have their own life and keep secrets from each other. You'll go insane if you communicate everything. It's all about compromise and picking your battles. He's going to do things you don't like and you'll do things he doesn't like. There will be times when you'll hate him and vise versa, but you'll get over it and work it out. Every week, in my neighborhood, I hear a husband and wife yelling at each other. Sometimes my neighbors hear me and my wife. No one ever gets divorced. It's just part of life.

I think it would silly for you to cancel your wedding over this. Unless your fiance is a total jerk (it doesn't seem like he is), I think you and your fiance should still get married and good luck.

Actually kbh, your responses read that as long as the posters are nicey, nicey and some what agree with you then that is fine, no retaliation. Butttt, if they are suggesting something you don't want to hear and don't say it in the perfect way you retaliate and give excuses. How boring the world would be if we all sounded the same and said things in the same way and had the same opinion. If I were to post a situation on a Marriage forum, I would consider ALL responses, whether I like them or not. Because I asked for them. And just to let you know, I agree with a few of the opinions put forth by browncoat. Some are spot on imho. I also agree with the quote " When he showed me who he was, I should have believed him" . Don't expect change from him after the wedding if you do go through with it. Oh, and AtomicJay, don't know how long you have been on GardenWeb, I have been here since 1998. We have had trolls make up posts, just for the fun of it. We have had long time posters make up financial difficulties just to get people to send them goods and money. We have had people not live up to their end of a "swap". We have even had a poster fake their own death for the sympathy and money. So lying on these forums is not unheard of. It has happened many, many times. Do I think that kbh is lying, no. But as stated it has been done before. NancyLouise

@nancylouise_gw

Thanks for your opinion, and please believe that I do NOT expect everyone to agree with me, but I guess I did expect hat constructive criticism would be given in a kind way. And I did expect them to read what I wrote, now to read into things and make crazy assumptions. I am new to posting and have never done this before here or anywhere else. I guess I didn't expect people to try to tear me down when I am seeking anonymous advice. That is all. And if someone's lifestyle is 100% different than mine, posting what works for them is never going to be constructive in any way. If I don't want my husband to go to a strip club, then why would I want to go to one with him as one poster suggested? This is clearly just not what I thought or hoped it would be. I would never tear someone down in their time of need. Thanks.

I didn't read all of the above posts in their entirety especially those that went deep into relationships, etc. And the reason for me is simple, I think your complaint is silly. I understand he made a promise and he broke it, but this is his wedding too and he gets this one bachelor party with his friends and unfortunately that's what guys do most of the time, they get strippers. Let it go! In the big picture of life and marriage, this is so small and not worth it. My husband told his best man he didn't want strippers and they got them anyway. He didn't want to insult the guys so he just played along with it, or that's what he told me anyway. I'm sure he ended up enjoying every minute of it! But it doesn't matter, its one night of fun for them and as long as there isn't s*x involved, just let it go. I'm Christian too and hate the whole idea of strippers, but that's just how it is. If you want your marriage to work, just move on. His friends put pressure on him, he went through with it, but it's over. And I'm not saying this to insult you, but asking him to check in with you every day on his trip is too controlling. Don't you want him to call you because he wants to? Because he misses you? Please take my advice and give him a few more feet on the leash otherwise your marriage will never survive. If you give him more freedom, he won't feel the need to lie or break a promise. I wish you the very best.

Yikes, KB. Your
martyr complex is showing.

Again, I didn’t bring up anything that wasn’t already
brought up by other posters. I also
never called you a liar. I said you were
being disingenuous, and I stand by that statement. It is my opinion, based on your responses. Not me reading things into it, or twisting
your words, but your actual words in the context they were used. And I cited examples. As I said, my opinion is no less valid than
anyone else’s opinion that is posting on this forum. I didn’t attack you as a person, or your
lifestyle – though you certainly crossed that bridge on your own to attack
me. Look, I’m not the one that “caused a
problem here.” That would be you, and
you asked our advice for solving said problem.
You wanted an unbiased opinion, you got one.

“I did not write my first post to hear form people like you,
and this will be my last response to you.”
Next time you solicit honest opinions, make sure you add your
disclaimers at the beginning. You know –
no opinions you don’t agree with, no negativity, and absolutely nothing that
requires self-reflection or critical thinking on your part. Good luck with that.

kb,
Cut the guy a little slack. You can't go into a marriage supposedly based on trust by being controlling his every action and suspecting him of things he is not doing.

Marriage does not mean you are joined at the hip permanently.

I'm 66 years old and if my H didn't catch a look at a pretty girl walking down the street I would point her out to him. He appreciated me for that even though I am no raving beauty. Oh, he looked but didn't touch and always comes home to me.

Sad to say, if you don't loosen up a little on your demands, I don't see any marriage between you two lasting very long.

"I want husband who has friends who don't put him in those type of
situations. Godly, Christian men who hold each other accountable to a
higher standard. I guess I am asking what to do"

After reading all of your arguments and justifications, I am dismayed. I don't think there's any man who would live up to your standards as they are now. I see only unhappiness for both of you if you don't mellow out. Although I would agree that trust and veracity are essential components of a good relationship, so are forgiveness, tolerance, and compassion. As a victim of actual infidelity, I can tell you that what your fiance did -- does NOT compare. At all.

"Finally I am not forcing my intended into lying to me. That is also a choice. And he can either be honest with me and we can work it out, or he can be honest with me and we can split up, or he can NOT be honest with me and I find out or don't find out. These are all choices or life things that happen in life. At the end of the day, I'm not holding a gun to his head and he can do what he wants. And then I have to do what I want or need. We are talking about the possibility of ending a relationship that was intended for marriage"

******

I hope things turn out for the best, and wanted to say that you sound very brave.

I wish I'd had your bravery years ago!

@nancylouise - that is crazy! I cannot believe people would do that. Well, I can, but to infiltrate a virtual community and spend presumably years developing relationships just to take financial advantage is beyond the pale. I hope no one here has fallen for these scams. And I completely would be more circumspect if this were some hardship story wanting $ or personal information, etc. I get there are lots of people who do those kind of scams. However, I still stand by my initial opinion that I'd rather give OP the benefit of the doubt in this instance b/c, unlike someone seeking $ but instead free advice, I see little benefit in lying.

@kbh - I hope you can take everyone's advice in the spirit it was intended, and that is from a position of wanting to help. All of us here have had widely varying life experiences and, without knowing you or your husband, we do the best we can to tell you what things we would think about/consider/reflect upon when facing a major decision like yours given our past experiences. I have a hard time with this myself, but try to separate the message from the messenger. Even in the posts that aren't worded as kindly as you or I'd like them to be, there are still valuable insights. Those insights may 100000% not apply to you, or indeed they may. Just consider them. I think in wrapping up this conversation the one thing that no one has said, and I failed to mention earlier is this: Follow your gut. It knows what your head and heart haven't figured out yet.

DH and I got married in the Catholic church, and in doing so, went through pre-cana. We also met with an Imago therapist, which was amazing-blew the pre-cana out of the water!

Imago therapy helped us with communication skills and to understand how to give to each other, what we ourselves want and need.

http://www.imagorelationships.org/

@kbh: wow you hit the jackpot. I just randomly saw this whole site and read many other threads before I saw yours. Usually these threads seem very slow. Yours has sparked a lot of interest. Before reading any responses I had wanted to support your likely position, but from what I assume you would feel to be a strange starting point. I am an old man, an atheist and find it embarrassing and shocking that magic stories still hold sway in the 20th or 21st centuries. I also expect that educated people should be able to uphold good moral standards because they are reasonable. More reasonable than stuff from two and three thousand years ago when people believed in witches etc., but I digress. I believe you should be expected to hold high standards for yourself and your husband, and I believe you are internally consistent holding your Christian values; after all I was brought up in the same society. I agree with you that strip clubs are stupid and degrading for both the actors and the audience. I agree that something you felt so important about being broken is very bad and I wanted to say that I felt that it could or should be a deal breaker for you since your feelings are so strong. I didn't have a solution. I believe in right and wrong but usually think 'christian (small c) values are questionable at best, but I felt an unexpected sadness for your position.

Then I read the responses. I am very impressed with the high quality. Like suzieque, I was blown away by atomic_jay's first response, not to take anything away from the rest of everyone else. I believe everyone had something useful to say.

kbh: You know what a rorschach test is, similar to seeing things in clouds? There is an old joke: A guy in a bar is complaining about his therapist. He says the therapist is a pervert because the therapist keeps showing him dirty pictures! Rim Shot! Your responses have given indications that the suggestions from others that you might want to look at your own attitude and desires and attempt to adjust them, is a good idea. Browncoat actually gave you perfectly good things to think about and you chose to 'twist' those thoughts just like you felt they were twisted by browncoat. My initial impression was that you were just intensely moral, but I suggest it could instead be called rigid and controlling. My first impression suggests you skip the marriage because he doesn't meet your standards. Modified rigidity gives the opportunity for a reevaluation of your position.
I guess that should be the stopping point but one thought on the strip club. You really want your guy visiting all his best friends to be called 'hen picked', yes I'm old, or (sorry about this), 'pussy whipped' even before he gets married??

Maybe marriage isn't for the two of you.

Brown coat and triathlon vixen,. I am with both of you.

Kph, I agree with them because, before I started therapy, I spent lots of energy and words trying to explain and justify my thoughts, feelings, standards. Once of the most useful things I was ever told was that if 1, 2, 3 people say it looks like a duck....I should start looking for feathers. I hope you can find your feathers.

Two questions to ponder: into what religion will you bring the children? If you are both devout you want to fully discuss this one. Also, how do you feel about personal time-he with his friends, you with yours?

Just let it go, another poster said they'd been thru actual infidelity and this doesn't even come close, and that's so true. Also, don't ever tell him to check in with you every night, you'll have a much better marriage if he does that on his own. I hope it all works out for you.

There seems to be an element of a parent/child relationship going on here. You forbade him to go to a strip club. He did and he lied because you put him in a no-win situation. Honestly, would you really have felt any better if he had walked in from the trip and said " guess what, we went to a strip club Saturday night." I don't think so. He was dammed if I do dammed if I don't. I really don't think you're upset he lied, I think you're upset because he went ahead and did something you told him not to do (parent/child) and using " he lied" to justify your indignation at his disobeying you.

Ok, so you don't like strip clubs, but most guys do on occasion and you are pretty naive to think guys on a bachelor weekend won't end up at a strip club. You are also naive if you think your fiancé never looks at porn privately. If both are occasional, it's harmless...and pretty normal...men are visual beings. When your fiancé left for the trip the only thing you should have said is "have a great time." Telling him to call you every night is, again, acting like his mother.

Only you can decide if this is a deal breaker. You must trust him or your marriage doesn't stand a chance. You know him......deep down do you think he's a true blue guy no matter the temptations of a bachelor weekend, business trip, etc or does your gut tell you he could easily cheat on you? If it's the former, then back off, be grateful you found a great guy and if his going to a strip club on a bachelor weekend is the worse thing he ever does you'll be pretty darn lucky......it's nothing in the grand scheme of things.

I just cannot see this marriage lasting at all. Get out now before the wedding or afterwards, it's divorce.

News flash!! Men are DIFFERENT than we are. They enjoy visual stimulation. You are being ridiculous and so is he, for trying to please you and sneak in his manhood, if he can. And please, don't hide your complete misunderstanding of men behind religious ideals. Sex and sexual stimulation are perfectly natural, biological feelings. Please seek sex education B4 you marry anybody. (Unless you want some henpecked doormouse with no testosterone.)

This is an old post but I am curious how things turned out for you guys? I am dealing with a similar issue. I think its expected but disheartening to see so many people try to belittle your morals and convictions just because they believe that strip clubs are okay. The ways of the world aren't right for everyone and finding someone with the same moral standards and beliefs is sooooo important. To someone who feels strongly that this type of entertainment is wrong, it's not something you should just have to let go or let slide because a bunch of strangers say "boys will be boys"... Its funny how liberal people are until you try to express your own Christianity.

I can't speak for everyone else, but my post in which I basically said "let it go" wasn't saying that I thought it was okay. I am Christian too and repulsed by the whole idea of strippers, male or female. I'm also a realist though and the OP needs to be too, otherwise she'll spend her entire life by herself. Don't forget, some of the worst offenders when it comes to womanizing, cheating, pornography, etc. have been Christian leaders. So that label in itself is not going to save a marriage. The OP's tolerance and forgiveness will.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

kbh5460:

Your aversion to strip clubs is coming back to haunt you. Your man is telling you what you want to hear and you're forcing him to do so.

I've been happily married for almost 34 years and I have and will continue to go where I please when I please. You need to switch to "don't ask, don't tell" and everything will be fine.

Oh, and on a technical note, the most difficult women on earth to pick up are strippers. He'd have a much easier time at a sports bar, trust me.

I wouldn't call of the wedding because of the strip club. I'm not a fan of them, either, but I'm wondering if this is what happened: The guys decided to go to a strip club and your fiance was not in a position to refuse. It would like kind of silly to the other guys and maybe they would say he was henpecked and get on his back about it. Men hate that. So he went along and just decided to put it behind him and hope you wouldn't make a big deal about it. (And asking him to phone you every night looks like keeping tabs on him. I wouldn't like that myself.)

kbh5460: if there's any chance you still get notifications on this old thread, I'd like to know how everything turned out. I'm in the same situation and at this point I don't care about the strip club, the private lap dance only pisses me off when I think about it, but the disregard for my feelings/ boundries after we discussed it is what hurts the most. That and the fact that he doesn't seem very remorseful. Anyway, curious to know what you did and how it ended up.

elizrip:

If the biggest offense your man makes is getting a lap dance twice a year, consider yourself a very lucky woman. You may as well ask him to quit breathing. Keep up with your wifely duties and you'll have no competition.

Joseph Corlett, you've missed the important bit:

"the disregard for my feelings/ boundries after we discussed it is what hurts the most...and the fact that he doesn't seem very remorseful."

Yep, that would piss me off too.

Let's talk about feelings, please. The feelings of resentment at your wife when all the guys at work are going to Jimmy's bachelor party at the strip club but you can't go because of her irrationality towards normal fantasy. And listening to them call you "pussywhipped" for the next decade. Great. And you are, by the way.

Here's an alternative. Tell him to enjoy himself at the party. Send the kids to grandma's, and when he gets home, answer the door with a bottle of champagne in one hand and two glasses in the other while you're wearing that thing you picked up Victoria's Secret that afternoon. He'll take it from there, believe me. On the way home, he thought life couldn't get any better than at the strip club and he's never been happier to be so wrong. Win-win.

Wow, I thought Neanderthals had died out but apparently not. If wanting your wife to feel happy and secure in your relationship is being "pussywhipped" then that's a sad indictment of your attitude.

Not a win-win if someone who's too gutless to stand up to the guys at work in case they call him bad names comes home and starts comparing his loving wife unfavourably to the fantasy girls he's just been slavering over.

Is it OK if the wife goes out to watch the Chippendales and comes home and starts wishing hubby was similarly well...built?

So her feelings are more important than his? He should just sacrifice and suck it up? His resentment is somehow less legitimate than her jealousy?

"Is it OK if the wife goes out to watch the Chippendales and comes home and starts wishing hubby was similarly well...built?"

Yes, perfectly fine. It's fantasy. You have to control what your body does, not your mind.

Don't look good in lingerie? Forget the champagne. Let him see you tapping a riding crop into your palm when he gets home. Make that naughty boy pay.

You're single, right?

Happily married for 37 years on September 26, 2018. She knew the deal when she married me.

Oh, and way to not ever answer my fairly asked questions.

Congratulations on finding a live doormat. I guess _you're_ happily married, but would your wife say the same thing if asked?

As to not answering your questions, you totally missed MY point, which was that many men end up unfavourably comparing their wives to the fantasy girls they see at the strip clubs. And then they become dissatisfied with their wives, and then everything goes downhill. Why should a wife have to imitate a stripper to keep her husband's interest? Presumably if she wanted to be a stripper she'd have been one in the first place. If a man wants a fantasy wife, he should marry one.

Yes, his wife's feelings are more important because unless that was the deal when they married, he shouldn't be moving the goalposts, especially when he can see that it's something that upsets her, makes her feel insecure and inadequate, not necessarily jealous. This is called _consideration and compromise_. No doubt there are activities his wife foregoes because she knows her husband wouldn't be happy about them.

"...MY point, which was that many men end up unfavourably comparing their wives to the fantasy girls they see at the strip clubs. And then they become dissatisfied with their wives, and then everything goes downhill."

Where did you get such a strange idea? You always want what you don't have. You see someone else's car, you want that one, you see someone else's house, you want that one. Wives are no different, except the man you want knows he, like everyone else, is suffering from "Grass Is Always Greener" Syndrome.

I'll control my actions to please my wife, but I'm not giving up the thoughts in my head.

"You always want what you don't have."

Speak for yourself. Not everyone is as covetous as you appear to be. (And isn't there some kind of "thou shalt not covet" suggestion out there somewhere?)

But you've just made my point. If you always want what you don't have, this implies you're not happy with what you've got. That's not a good feeling for the person who's the one not wanted.

And on this forum alone (along with dozens of other fora) there are soooo many complaints from women who say "My husband has been looking at strippers/porn and now ignores me".

"your wifely duties"

Joseph, OMG. You're really something else. Not only is that comment utterly repulsive, but your comparing the wife's feelings, as indicated, similar to the husband's "feelings" that he needs to go to a strip club two completely different things. The fact that you think his urges are the same as her emotions shows your true self. And to think that you use your real name on these forums!

Heck, women have thoughts in their heads, too ..... I'd love to hear whether your wife thinks of George Clooney, Tom Cruise, or whom while you're having sex. Don't fool yourself into thinking that she's always thinking about you. But I'll bet that she doesn't go to strip clubs, right?

Sheesh.

Suzieque:

I knew that antiquated phrase would drive some feminist nuts. I pick my words carefully most of the time. Thanks for letting me know I hit the mark.

Perhaps you can do what colleenoz hasn't, which is directly answer my fair questions. Neither of you have addressed why her feelings are more legitimate than his. Why his resentment means less than her butthurt.

My wife likes Nicholas Cage; whomever floats yer boat.

I use my real name here because I don't need or care to hide behind anonymity. My offering practical solutions and searching for some common ground solution is easily and proudly defensible.

Her FEELINGS and his URGES are not the same. Her's are emotional, mindful, emotions that deserve to be honored. His are urges that, if acted upon, hurts her. So - hers are emotional feelings. His are physical .... um .... feelings, if you will. Not the same.

Why are her's more important? Because him acting on what hurts her .... hurts her. In so many ways (not the least of which is his lack of respect for her emotions). His ... urges .... are certainly legitimate (they are biological), but his way of letting them manifest is hurtful to her.

Got it? Or still too difficult for you to understand?

And him being "resentful" after his wife has made a not unreasonable request is childish. What part of "love, honour and cherish" does "doing something that will hurt my wife and possibly ultimately endanger my marriage because my dick tells me to and I'm afraid my workmates will call me names" fall into?

I also chuckle at Joseph's use of the word "feminist". Seriously, Joseph? Ay yi yi. Are you living in the '50s? Never mind. You've been left behind, in so many ways.

KB, how did it go? Did you marry him? How’s your marriage?

I went to a strip club several nights ago with my significant other, my niece (she used to work there) and her boyfriend. We had a great time.