That has to be the best response ever: don't share the information someone needs for due diligence until you say how much due diligence you did. Ostensibly, so we can blame you.

None of those things you mentioned should even cause pause before posting a review. The due diligence or lack thereof may explain how the customer got into the situation and may reduce sympathy for them, but will not in any way diminish the review. Culpabilty is not an excuse for bad work.

So Tundra, if I hire a contractor who does a lousy job, I should take the blame for it because I hired him? That's some pretty lousy "blame the victim" thinking. True, she should have done more due diligence. But that doesn't excuse the lousy job, and she absolutely has the right to let others know so they don't make the same mistake she did.

I'd do what LWO said: be very factual, not emotional in your description of how things went down. No long narratives or diatribes, just facts about cost, timeliness and quality. That will give your posting maximum credibility.

Now dont get mad !!!

Every story needs a protagonist, how could one condone this person writing a bad review without proof / pudding !!

It is equally the contractors place to do due dillegence in Taking a project on

(I.E. Is this within my scope of skillset? or Have we both determined ill be able to give the quality expected and is it in writing etc... .

My questions have not been answered yet i may add......

Feel bad for both parties "equally" happens all the time..

I can't believe that people are suggesting that you just keep quiet and allow the contractor to continue screwing people over because he shouldn't be blamed for being bad at his job.
And posting a short review that just says "I didn't like his work" is just as useless to anybody as an overly emotional bias review.
An honest, unemotional review is not attacking him or being vindictive. It's making him accountable for his actions.

I was just wondering if my posting a review would make him come after me with a gun or break my windows or something.

Nobody can answer this because nobody knows this guy. But I think it's safe to say that that isn't a normal reaction to a negative review. He'd have to be mentally unstable to do that.

Tundra - first, in a story the protagonist is simply the main character. Not sure what that has to do with proof or pudding.

Again, nothing you wrote has anything to do with writing a review. Even if the OP is culpable in the hiring of the contractor it has nothing to whether or not the OP writes a review. In fact, I would argue that denying information to others extends the culpability beyond the original job and holds the OP partially responsible for any future client who while doing due diligence is denied information.

Then we have natural selection at work, if you suck as a contractor then you should not be able to feed your family being a contractor. Hey my pro basketball career ended early because I suck at it. Will you buy tickets to my games if I go pro just because you don't want to take food from my mouth?

Finally, the whole shared responsibilty idea is ridiculous anyway. You are not at fault for the bad things other people do including their misrepresentations. You protect yourself with due diligence to mitigate the costs of said misrepresntations, it has nothing to do with any kind of sharing in the fault.

I'm sorry, but the OP said they were upset due to his "mismanagement, bad planning, and under-budgeting" and then ends with saying they were told by the contractor "don't tell me how to do my work."

So, was the contractor hired to mismanage, badly plan, and under budget and did not meet expectations? Nothing was said about any actual physical work done and what was wrong with it, so do we assume it was okay?

To be more clear, here is my original post: http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/2969253/first-time-home-owners-and-issues-with-contractor

Years ago I was in the contracting business. I got to wondering how I was doing and, with great trepidation, began going back and asking my customers how I had done for them. it really was devastating! I am not a bad person, but I also didn't know how to run a business. I could design it, install it, service it and repair it. I just didn't understand how to run a business. You have to understand that a lot of contractors are mechanics who "end up" in business because they have no other choice. it wasn't long after that I decided I needed to get out of it, which I did, joyfully! I then stayed in the industry and told these stories to a lot of contractors. Some thought I was pretty sharp. Some thought I was an idiot. It is still arguable either way.

I have worked incredibly hard to earn a 4.66 rating out of a possible 5 with over 200 homeadvisor reviews. Those who are advocating keeping silent are demeaning my efforts.

This is the internet age. If you are so stupid as to give a customer ammunition to fire back at you, you deserve every word.

By the way, I wouldn't let homeadvisor delete a single poor review of mine. They add a credibility that money can't buy. I deserved every one, not because of poor work or unfair pricing, but my own inability to screen customers.

If you're on the receiving end, here are some tips.

joelovesjeannie - Oh that thread. It's clear that you both went in with unreasonable expectations. Write what you will publicly about this contractor but remember that you yourself said the job started well. I would treat this like a first junior high romance.

For some perspective, check out this thread (warning, it's long and with the Houzz merger a lot of it is missing but you'll get the gist of it)

Hobokenkitchen saga

Hobokenkitchen, continued

I never write and tend to ignore online reviews because the motives of the writers are never clear and there is usually another reasonable side to the story. I've found some that were so similar they sounded suspiciously like they were written by the competition. When you interview a contractor you should ask for references and call them. That's where you will find the truth. If you do write a review keep it short, polite and to the point if you want anyone to take it seriously. Make it about the contractor's performance not about your reaction to it.

You should never take anyone's side of the story as 100% truth. And while online reviews may be more likely to be skewed against the contractor, you can usually spot the "vindictive" ones from the honest reviews.
And references that are provided by the contractor are obviously going to be skewed in the contractor's favour. They aren't going to give you contact information for jobs that they screwed up on. So those are no more the "truth" than the online reviews.
Due diligence means that you take ALL of these sources and try to get an overall view of the actual performance of the contractor.

More telling than a bad review is a contractor's response to it. As one contractor above claims, even his negative reviews are no reflection on him, but were only received because he didn't choose his customers carefully enough. IMO, if a contractor replies to a negative review by discounting what the customer complained about, especially if he does it more than once, that raises a red flag. If a contractor can't reply to a bad review without making the customer look bad, he's better off keeping his mouth shut. I don't really give much credence to online reviews, but I do give some thought to how the reviewed person responds.

The contractor that did the siding and gutter job on my house requested that I change my review of the job on Guild Quality Survey, because he said it was the only negative review he got for that year. However, that was not entirely true. I praised the quality of the siding/gutter work in and of itself, and even added that the installers had done some additional work as well. What I did object to was that I had great difficulty communicating with the crew about certain things I wanted done/not done during the job (and I had emails to/from the head office as proof), and repeatedly the crew would ignore my requests. Partly this was was due to a language difference (only the supervisor spoke understandable English), and partly due to their determination to do it THEIR way, even though their boss had given me the go-ahead to have it done MY way. My other complaint was the crews' behavior on the job site, re: smoking and leaving butts all over the yard and urinating in the yard and the bushes. I WAS willing to "soften" my review at the contractor's request at a later date, but Guild Quality does not allow changes. Needless to say, the "lifetime maintenance" quarantee on my leaking gutters is slow to take place; daresay I am last on their list? And I did do extensive research on this company from the get-go, which is why I chose them for the job."

Joe:
Your statement that poor reviews mean your customer screening was imperfect implies that you think you never make real mistakes and have nothing you can improve. I would hope, for your sake, that you can take negative feedback and find ways to improve, instead of just having blinders on that say "bad review=bad customer, don't pick one of them again." To be honest, that sounds like one of those "false weaknesses" that people try to use in job interviews. You're saying it's your fault, but you're really blaming the customer.

What's a "bad customer" anyway? It sounds like to you it's anyone who disagrees with you, asks questions, or has the temerity to not like the way you did something (whether it be related to quality of work or communication or business process). Sorry, no one's that perfect.

Here are some examples that come to mind of how an otherwise decent contractor could manage a relationship better to minimize the chances of dissatisfaction:
-explain clearly up front the methods and materials you will use (less likely to have a customer who gets something different than they expect). Then do it that way.

-explain clearly up front when you'll start the job and how long it will take (less likely to have a customer who says you took longer than expected). Then meet those timelines.

-when you run into an unexpected snag and need to make a design change, stop, explain it to the customer, and give them a choice about how to proceed, including any extra costs associated with the options (less chance they'll second-guess your decision and resent your not consulting them).

Bottom line: treat the customer with respect and they'll be much more likely to trust you and appreciate your work.

I daresay there are more complaints about quality of service/communication than quality of work. And I'd bet you've got room to improve some of those, which could make your fraction of negative reviews even smaller.

Im sorry but, Weedy just sounds mad. wronged and mad. wish I could have been a fly on the wall during the wrongdoing. Then id be able to comment on the review process being fair for both sides, surely it effects the contractor .

Why would the review process be fair for both sides? When you went to the grocery store did you ask the cashier to rate you as a customer? Or when you bought a car, did you call them up a week later and ask them how you did as a customer? As a consumer you have the money. Businesses (of which a contractor is one) would like to relieve you of a bit of that money, so that he in turn can be relieved of it at the car lot and the grocery store. The onus is on the contractor to prove he deserves the money, not the other way around. In fact, not only is it the contractor's responsibility to prove that he deserves the money it is his responsibility to note the expectations in the market and adapt to those signals.

Weedy, doesn't sound mad or wrong to me. To me she sounds like a customer who is frustrated about the level of service that some providers now feel all too comfortable giving. I am good at my job, very good, and I make mistakes. To state that all mistakes are just customer mistakes, even if it was true, would seem disingenuous.

Wronged and mad? No. We DIY most everything, so I've had minimal experience hiring contractors and those experiences I've had have been generally good (current thread elsewhere about flaky contractors not even following through on quotes notwithstanding).

The irritation you're sensing in my post above is at what lands on me as contractor arrogance. I can't stand the "blame the customer" attitude of some of the pros on here.

bry & I cross-posted, so I'll add a P.S. to his post. If you get bad service in a restaurant, do you self-reflect and ask "what am I doing wrong that my server hasn't been back to refill my water glass?" or "wow, I didn't do a very good job of picking a restaurant, I'll do better due diligence next time, and I'll still tip my server 20% because it's not her fault I picked her." Heck no, you've got an incompetent server.

If you drop your car off for a repair, they tell you it will be ready Friday, and when you call on Friday they haven't started it yet, do you ask, "I wonder if I said something wrong to make him put other jobs in front of mine?" or "hey, my fault for not checking reviews better to know that they don't usually meet their deadlines, and it's thus reasonable to give them another week to finish." Heck no, you chew out the auto shop because they either overpromised or underdelivered and didn't communicate properly.

But for some reason in construction/remodeling, some pros get it twisted up so they make customers think that it's their job to please the contractor so he'll deign to work for them. B.S. That's completely backwards. But we've got legions of people that come to these boards halfway through a job with a bad contractor and they're paranoid of pissing him off for fear he'll walk. How messed up is that? In any other industry you'd walk and take your business elsewhere.

Well said, weedyacres.

I just spent a night at the Rosen Hotel across the street from Coverings in Orlando, Florida. When you're charging north of $200.00 per night, things had better be damn near perfect.

Other than the 12-car 20-minute line-up to get into the parking garage and the pitifully slow free internet, it was very nice.

Shoe, meet other foot, please.

<< wondering if my posting a review would make him come after me with a gun >>

Remodeling is nothing if not dramatic.

Nah, the cops would read the review and nab him immediately.

"What's a "bad customer" anyway? It sounds like to you it's anyone who disagrees with you, asks questions, or has the temerity to not like the way you did something (whether it be related to quality of work or communication or business process)."

You forgot 1) someone who gets other bids (tire kickers), 2) those not giving a contractor carte blanche with their money and 3) those unwilling to be charmed into taking the first bid, no matter how high it is.

To put it into a nutshell, a bad customer is one who does not actually respect the time or abilities of contractors. That can mean not paying them in a timely manner, or it can mean being too snobby to let them use the facilities in your home, or it can mean a constant stream of snotty comments directed towards contractors in general. Poo stinks, no matter the source.

I just spent a night at the Rosen Hotel across the street from Coverings
in Orlando, Florida. When you're charging north of $200.00 per night,
things had better be damn near perfect.

Exactly. And if they weren't, would you have blamed yourself, for insufficient due diligence, or questioned whether or not you had offended the front desk clerk and thus deserved the lousy service you got? Or would you have insisted that they make it right?

Sophie: I like your nutshell. The 3 things I was thinking of when I posed the question were:

1. Doesn't pay promptly
2. Is unreasonably nitpicky/has unreasonable expectations
3. Is indecisive (wastes time/delays project)
   All of these would fall into the category of disrespectful.
   
   And I'd say the things that seem to elicit most complaints about contractors are where they don't respect the time, desires, or homes of their customers.

As mentioned above, I would keep the review fact-based and non emotional. Lay the facts out there and the readers can determine if they want to continue working with the contractor.

I think it is unfair to write a bad review and the contractor is completely taken by surprise. He already knows you are unhappy.

Bottom line...it isn't your fault that he is losing money. He should have done the proper due diligence during the bid process to protect himself.

"being too snobby to let them use the facilities in your home,"

Toilets again? I think most people would be fine offering their bathrooms if they didn't have to worry about them being hosed down.

"or it can mean a constant stream of snotty comments directed towards contractors in general. Poo stinks, no matter the source."

That's gotta be one of the funniest, double-standards I've read here for a while. Hilarious, considering the source.

If Sophie's comment about being too snobby to let the contractor use the facilities in your home is directed toward my post, I'd like to respond. I specifically addressed two concerns with the gentleman who did the estimating for my siding job: (1) would the contractors smoke on the property, and (2) how would bathroom needs be handled, as I have a one-bathroom, very small house with five indoor cats. He assured me that the workers would only smoke off the property and would leave no butts around, and that they would take scheduled breaks at nearby fast-food establishments/gas stations to handle bathroom needs. Personally I think the company should have provided a Porta-Potty. Instead, what happened was smoke breaks where the guys lay down in the yard smoking and then tossed their butts everywhere, plus they urinated in the dumpster for construction waste, behind my sheds, in the bushes, and in my small fenced back yard not 20 ft. from the back door. If this was MY fault, I'd like to know how.

How did a thread asking how to write an honest review about contractors turn into a thread about bad customers who are disrespectful, non-paying, snotty, and snobby? I'm all for some "thread drift" but this is a complete turn around.

Jelly, I fear your comment : "More telling than a bad review is a contractor's response to it." may have triggered the need in some members to tell war tales. And they're never as interesting as ours, right?

LOL, well, I didn't say they weren't interesting, just wondering how it got so turned around. I don't really want to take credit for steering the ship off course because my comment was concerning actual posted reviews where contractors respond to their reviewers. I think a review that includes a response from the contractor is more beneficial to anyone considering hiring them, because it gives a glimpse into how they deal with problems. Do they take any responsibility, or do they put it all back on the customer? After all, I'm not hiring their customers so I couldn't care less if they sound crazy or not. If the contractor sounds unreasonable in his response, that's something I care about.

Not to beat a dead horse, but if any potential future contractors were to read this thread, they'd run back to school for an accounting degree. The utter contempt that some posters show for contractors goes well beyond being disappointed by their work. And yes, if some of those folks write reviews like they post, really, it's only gonna do a contractor good. Others that read the ravings will wonder less about the contractor and more about the poster. Reasonable people don't see the world in black and white. Nor do they rub their hands with glee for the chance to denigrate an entre profession over issues with a select few. Makes as much sense to say that all police are corrupt racists because a few have proved to be that.

The vast majority of contractors that I have dealt with all want to make their customers happy. Many may not be great at communicaton, or getting specifics in writing, but, just like the OP here, neither are the clients good at communicating their expectations, and they also failed to document their expectations in writing. Both fail contracts 101. Both had hopes of a successful relationship. If 50% of marriages end in divorce, and the two parties have a much more agreed upon course of action and interest, how well does that bode for less committed relationships? Communication is ALWAYS the key, and it's vital for BOTH parties.

First, let me say that I very strongly recommend running to school for an accounting degree! In fact, stop reading this and go enroll now! Second, I don't think the thread has been all that abusive to contractors. There is nothing wrong saying that you were not satisfied with the services you were paid for. Contractors, like everyone else, must struggle with that line of maximizing benefit by pleasing the customers who can be pleased and writing off the ones that can't. This is a struggle that every business in a free market can sympathize with.

As for the original question, everyone will weight reviews differently and I am not sure that we really need to discuss the power of a bad or good review. Personally, I kick out both extremely positive and extremely negative reviews. I want to know what led to people being generally pleased with the work but not completely pleased. Along those lines, I prefer that people use the that classic something good and something bad rule: Find a couple of good things to say before you say anything bad. If you can't find any good in the work or the experience then you have a larger issue than writing a review, and should probably focus on that. The early comments were solid advice along those lines.

Only later on did we get led down a different path. I would argue that a Pro's comments started us down this path but many of us jumped on that path with both feet so we can share that. To be fair, I think a large part of the problem is that all businesses now feel pressure to get perfect reviews. Which I think makes less than perfect reviews more hurtful than they should be and perfect reviews less helpful than they could be. I recently bought a car and I think the guy asked me half a dozen times if I felt like I had gotten 5 star service. I was thinking it would be better if you quit asking. When I completed the survey thing they twisted my arm to make me do, I felt like any criticism was tantamount to beating up his dog.

Hello again,

I was away because of a death in the family, but now I'm back. We moved in a week ago and as of Tuesday all materials are here and we notified our contractor, but he has not responded at all. Today we had a electrician come in to take a look at my toddler's room because a plug outlet was causing trouble. He looked at all the rooms to make sure there was nothing left unsafe. He was shocked at how our contractor installed our ceiling fans and said they were installed illegally and that they needed to be up to code. Our contractor used a wire mold to hold the wire on the ceiling and the adhesive part was falling apart and dangling from the ceiling in both rooms he installed the ceilings. He advised us to not confront the contractor and rather call the licensing board right away. Unfortunately the contractor's license expires at thinned of the month and there is no way to tell it will be reissued. Sighhhhhhhhhhhh! I wish I could use my bathroom. Please give me a bathroom. We are using the tiny guest bathroom with a shower and we have a toddler that is not even two. Heaven help me. When is this going to end?

" He advised us to not confront the contractor and rather call the licensing board right away. Unfortunately the contractor's license expires at thinned of the month and there is no way to tell it will be reissued."

This is excellent advice. The state will accept a complaint as long as you get it in before his license expires.

In many states, a general contractor cannot perform electrical or any other mechanical work (plumbing, HVAC, etc.) which require separate licensing. He could be charged with unlicensed contracting.

"We are using the tiny guest bathroom with a shower and we have a toddler that is not even two. Heaven help me. When is this going to end?"

A couple years back some clients of mine had their kids from overseas visit with their two year old son and baby daughter. I had removed all the tubs in the home to make way for showers both curbed and one curbless. The delima was what to do with the kids at bath time.

The home was massive and had a carriage house with a working tub but that bathroom was for the staff and not up to speed. The secret came from a daily walk past the dollar store. They say a small blow up pool in the window and bought it for their grandson. The pool was used in the shower to make a little bath.

I don't need to tell you the down side here to standing on the edge would be massive but the pool worked without a hitch under ever present parent supervision.

Maybe a Kiddie Pool well help you out in your small shower?

joelovesjeannie, How are things going? I hope you get you project done, correctly and safely (and soon). I've been there, and I also struggle with the concern about honest negative reviews. I want to urge you to write it, but when someone knows where you live and already has shown disregard for you and your safety, you worry about the repercussions.

I once posted a negative Angie's List review. It wasn't horrible, but it wasn't straight A's. The person contacted us, was very defensive, and begged us to change it. I've heard similar stories from others. Plus, if you post a bad review on A.L., a little window pops up asking if you want their help. I naively said "yes" the first time. They asked the subject to respond, and after he did, dishonestly in my opinion, A.L. considered the matter closed. Not only that, they changed his grade and said I had to accept a "B" or better grade.

You mean Angie's List actually changes the reviews that customers give? What is the point of a review site that negates customer's reviews?

Comes down to the almighty dollar and pay for play and AL plays that game quite well.............

jellytoast, Here's what they said:

"Thank you
for utilizing the Angie's List complaint resolution process. I am
pleased to report that [I'm omitting company name, although not sure they deserve it] has agreed to resolve your
issue.

Please
find enclosed an updated report form. We would like to add your report
to the company records as soon as possible. Because this company has
resolved the aforementioned complaint according to your request, we will
discard the report you originally submitted. If
you would like to provide a positive (A or B) report, based on your
experience with this company, you may do so by completing the form
below."

When I objected to these constraints, saying I'd be doing members a disservice to provide such a good review, they said:
"Thanks
for your feedback. The “constraints” that Angie’s List has put in place
for reviews that are left after a company resolves a complaint are
policies that you agreed to when beginning this process. You are not
obligated to write a new review."

millworkman, I've heard before the "pay for play" claim about them, and yet they claim the opposite, that reviews are based solely on user experience. How does this pay-to-play supposedly work?

"How does this pay-to-play supposedly work?"

I have no experience with Angie's List, but I can assure you there is no "pay to play" at homeadvisor.

I have a customer's signature that he is completely satisfied with the work I performed and homeadvisor still allowed him to write a negative review, despite my proof.

I had a woman complain that I didn't get the stain out of her countertop in a review once. When I showed homeadvisor the email from the woman proving I was never hired to remove a stain, they removed her review.

So, back to Angie's List ... a customer has to change their review to an A or a B if the company says they resolved the complaint, regardless of whether the customer says it was resolved? Either that or it is removed entirely?

From Angie's list

What if the company resolves my complaint?

We will delete your original report, and you will be given the opportunity to replace the initial report with a positive one.

What happens if the company responds but doesn't resolve my complaint?

You have the final say as to whether you feel the issue is resolved or not. If the provider agreed to your requested resolution, or supplied a counter that you find acceptable, the case will be closed as resolved. However if the provider does not resolve the matter to your satisfaction, your report will continue to affect the company's rating with Angie's List, and both sides of the story may appear in our monthly magazine and online.

"You mean Angie's List actually changes the reviews that customers give?
What is the point of a review site that negates customer's reviews?"

In my case, the company resolved the matter to my satisfaction in that they gave me a complete refund (over $1000). And it's likely that they wouldn't have if I hadn't gotten Angie's List involved, because they hadn't responded to my previous complaints. But I thought others might benefit from knowing that they did a bad job in several ways and didn't respond promptly to my direct complaints. If other shoppers wanted the product they sell, they probably wouldn't want to get it from them if the end result might be no product, just a refund.

Could you have given them a "good" review by giving them a B with the comment that they gave you a total refund after not being able to fix the mess that they made. :)
Or are Angie's List review purely grades without any comments?

I don't know, but AL's reviews are not just grades (it's up to the reviewer). As I recall (this was over a year ago), I was so frustrated by AL's response, I didn't try any further.

"If other shoppers wanted the product they sell, they probably wouldn't want to get it from them if the end result might be no product, just a refund."

I agree! Giving them a "B" rating and stating that the company "resolved" the complaint is extremely misleading.

I know this thread is old, but for others like me who are in the same boat as the original poster and are reading for advice, I feel I have something to add. So many are just saying either to speak with the contractor directly or simply say "no I would not recommend." This is probably why we ended up with a contractor who had an amazingly positive online presence and within the community. No one left a negative review explaining their issues. Only after we were in too deep did people start coming out of the woodwork talking about their horrible experience with the contractor we are using. Horrible as in not finishing work, drywall falling from the ceiling, leaking roof, etc. So now we are having issues too. If these people would have got online and given these negative reviews then I'm sure we would have gone with someone else.

BEWARE OF BULLY CONTRACTORS, THERE WORK QUALITY IS POOR, VERY DISHONEST, AND TO TOP IT OFF THE WALKED AWAY WITH OVER $30,000 OUR MONEY ! IF YOU WANT MORE INFO. FEEL FREE TO CONTACT ME, bluethread53@gmail.com. THANKS !!