If I weighed 300 lbs and wanted to wear a bikini to a beach, I honestly wouldn't care one whit what someone like you thought! You and those like you don't get to decide what is "tasteful" especially when it comes to another's enjoyment of their life. I thought this conversation was about bullying - actions and attitudes.

It's sad that you think this is a go nowhere conversation, which just means that you aren't willing to look at how wrong you are and believe you can't win it. I agree.

Skinny people get bullied just as much as obese people. People with funny looking facial features get bullied more than either. So extrapolating, if you have a big nose and pointy chin you should know better than to dance in public lest you be humiliated because it's up to you to deny your genetic heritage and get plastic surgery to look like a Ken or Barbie, no matter the cost, pain and scarring of the soul? If you have alopecia, vitiligo, eczema, moles, or flippin' freckles, you should be shamed for showing yourself in public? If you have limp hair, big ears, or untoned upper arms, you don't deserve to live a full life?

How dare anybody who has not been approved by a casting director enjoy himself! Only pretty people should be allowed out. Everyone else is a troll who must hide in a cave lest he bring down the pretty people's good time. Oh, but she's not really pretty--her head is too big. To the caves with her! He looks great in a suit, but at the beach he could be the model for the "98 pound weakling". Off with him!! Vavavoom! She's exquisite! No! Horrors! Her nose is crooked! She's like a beautiful vase with a crack! Bar her at the door! .... This is supposed to be a dance party, but there aren't enough people here to get it going. Why can't we get enough perfectly pretty people in the club? I hear they're having a great time down in the caves, but I can't see how that could be possible when they're just a bunch of toads, trolls, and wombats.

I've even known someone bullied because they had blue eyes! YEP! Bullies seem to find anything to bully. Weight is only one reason. I was bullied because I was too quiet/shy.

Yes, bullying is nothing new, it's that now people are addressing the issue in a social media directed world. People are more aware and accepting because of it , but if teens are still committing suicide, we still have a long way to go.

We have another thread on what people see as appropriate dress. I think I agree that you can wear what you want when you want it. So, I do agree with Oly's comment. At the same time, you won't be seeing me in a bikini on the beach this summer. It is all about your own personal comfort level.

I do get what Snidely is trying to say. It is just a sad commentary that there are still people in today's society that think it is okay to make public comments about others.

We don't have the right to laugh or ridicule another's weight, lifestyle, clothing choice, profession etc. Keep those thoughts to yourself. End of story.

While there certainly IS bullying in the world, it's sadly become a catch phrase that gets misused all too often. All too much of the "bullying" is people who can't accept themselves so they claim they're "bullied" for whatever reason. It detracts from the credibility of the problem and people who are actual victims. Often people just need to stand up for themselves a bit and/or understand what true bullying is. Catch phrases come and go. Just like people who are "addicted" to anything from cigarettes to chocolate. Sometimes you need to take a little responsibility for yourself instead of blaming the world for your perceived shortcomings in life.

Kids can be cruel. That's how it's been forever. And with all these advanced parenting models and spank-free society, don't yell at a kid or they'll be traumatized and cellphones for 3 yr olds, kids can't walk two blocks to school, guess what, kids are still kids. And people still don't want to accept responsibility for themselves either.

When I was growing up there was a saying about "sticks and stones..." but now suddenly names will hurt you and it hurts you more when you let it. If people would learn when to respond and when to walk away, (and for that matter, what "bullying" really is) much of this "bullying" and such would be gone.

Isn't it ironic how people so "sensitive" to bullying start namecalling, accusations and other things toward someone who just presents a different viewpoint? Hmmm, is that what some call.... BULLYING? LOL

Snidely, I find your comment more misguided than anything. For one thing, it's strange to me that you singled out obese people, and continued doing so throughout, as the targets of bullying?? I think you might be confusing bullying with discrimination, and sometimes those two things cross paths. But bullies are very insecure people and cowards who pick up on a perceived weakness in another, and often that perceived weakness is not overt at all, i.e.: obesity, the color of one's skin, whatever. And in fact, bullies usually target people they feel threatened by, for whatever reason.

Next, to suggest that people should agree that bullying is "rude" (it's more than rude, btw, it's a form of violence and abuse) but "part of human nature" )true" is not relevant. Murdering others is part of human nature; so is belching, farting, thieving, lying….all kinds of pretty terrible things. Just because something is within the realm of human nature doesn't mean it should just be accepted and the subjects of it told to get over it. In fact, part of being a human being also gives us the ability override those "human nature" tendencies, whether by the law (murder), societal etiquette (no burping or farting in public), by punishment, religious doctrine ("do unto others")…whatever. Human beings are the one animal that can make moral choices and choices about its own behavior. So the "human nature" argument is probably the weakest out there.

Cynic, non-bullying that is called bullying does not make actual bullying not bullying.

My! My! What an excellent example of "bullying" some of you have displayed.

"Isn't it ironic how people so "sensitive" to bullying start name calling,
accusations and other things toward someone who just presents a
different viewpoint? Hmmm, is that what some call.... BULLYING? LOL"

Bravo, Cynic! You nailed it!

Cynic, what name calling are you talking about? I don't see any. dissent is not bullying. making a counter-argument is not bullying. Even criticizing the comments of another is not bullying.

Snidely, this discussion is not about dissuading people from having private negative thoughts about others. It's about those who act outwardly on those thoughts in a bullying manner.

" insensitive, uncaring, uncharitable, perverse, small mindedness "

Tally, that is not name calling. It's addressing a behavior, not the person. Name calling would be, "Loser", "Idiot", "fatso", "fa**ot"…pejoratives that go to the PERSON him or herself and which have nothing to do with the argument being made. That is name calling. "Small mindedness" walks up to the line. The others do not.

The links in the original comment had to do with episodes concerning two different overweight people. That was the topic that I guess many of you ignored.

I'm not an eloquent person, cogent comments don't flow easily from my thoughts. If I had these skills, my comments might have been similar to what Cynic wrote.

Overused and misused catch phrases....kid cruelty.....personal acceptance of a personal problem.....name calling..... Exactly!

I think the word, "bully" is getting overused, and it chaps me when adults use it.

I think the term should focus on children who don't have the maturity to deal with adversity, not "celebrities" on their stupid Twitter time lines.

I think tibbrix nailed it in saying that bullies are insecure and feel threatened.

To clarify: Bullying is using taunts, threats, and intimidation, sometimes including physical assault, to humiliate or abuse the subject. More often than not, it has a passive audience to increase the humiliation, which is magnified exponentially when video of it is posted in social media.

Yes, the two original examples of counter-bullying had obese subjects, but most of us understand that these kinds of things happen to many other types of people.

It's much more than calling names. "Hey, Fatso, we need one more for darts. Come play with us," is name calling, and the opposite of bullying. "Hey, Shortstuff, can you even see the dartboard from way down there? Gimme those darts! Go play jacks! That's down at your level," is lightweight bullying. It's nasty, but not grossly humiliating, and a little backbone gives the subject the ability to answer back in kind.

Posting an online video of a kid with glasses trying to learn to play darts and having trouble hitting the dartboard, just so people can make sneering comments about his bad sight and ineptitude, so that people in his neighborhood whom he didn't even know, start catcalling and calling him "blind" and other references to his eyesight (even though people with top notch sight have to practice to be good at darts), and make him sit crying in his room rather than risk being seen on the sidewalk, let alone playing any kind of skills game, is the kind of bullying that the anti-bullying movement is trying to stamp out.

You can certainly tell who are the bullies IRL. I cannot imagine saying to someone "if you don't want to be made fun of for being fat then you need to lose weight". UGH! So apparently in their narcissistic world, anyone that's overweight is FAIR GAME!?

Bullies are cowards and internet bullies are more so, since they don't have a face and hide behind a made-up name, except that sometimes their name fits to a tee.

anneliese, a person's true character is who they are when they are anonymous. Or, as H. Jackson Brown, Jr., said, "…what we do when we think no one is looking"

You said it Thumper!!!

I was bullied (some) as a kid - I hope that I didn't perpetrate such disparagement.
I was taught to respect others, and if I disagreed with them, to deal with issues in a respectful fashion, not sneeringly.
Those who stand by and allow the bullier to sneer without asking that more respect be shown are somewhat enablers.
It is a human trait to gather a group, or be part of one, and often it tends to solidify that group if they can find another individual, or group, to look down on and sneer at.
When we extend such habits to the international scale ... we have some of the messes that beset our world at present.
Let's help one another to respect our capabilities, and to work together at improving some of the aspects of our selfhood that we feel are lacking, are ashamed of. [The censor doesn't like the "selfhood" - but I don't assume to be "bullying" me: would you buy, "suggesting a better way"/"correcting"?]

ole joyful ... "fuelled" by thankfulness to live in a free, democratic society where we have much to learn about respecting one another ... and thankful to be reasonably healthful in body, mind, emotion and spirit, even at an advanced age

Agree. Those who stand by silently while disliking what is going on are just as guilty as those doing the bullying and those standing and "applauding" it in one way or another. Moral cowardice - yuck.

Just saw this today Father sick after disabled son is bullied, called ‘monster’ at school... how sad people - adults and kids - can be so cruel. I don't think our society is any more enlightened today than it was 30 years ago.

Not noticing the date of the original, and most of the replies ...

... I was surprised when I came to what I had to offer on the subject!

ole joyfuelled

Elmer says:

"I'm not an eloquent person, cogent comments don't flow easily from my thoughts. If I had these skills, my comments might have been similar to what Cynic wrote."

i see a pattern with Elmer. He posts a comment seemingly without clarifying himself, someone calls him out on it and he has to backpedal or explain what he "really" meant. I think we should take his first comment as who he really is.

The disturbing part is, I'm sure, that he enjoys the subsequent comments and attention he receives.

Elmer needs to be ignored.

And Elmer, I won't be looking for your comeback for me.

Isn't it easier as a little older adult, to identify the bullies? It isn't as complicated as it was when we were children. The only one's they are making miserable are themselves. Sad really. While they are plotting their snarky little revenge, we are out dancing.

Scarlett, you have only two posts on this entire website and they are both attacking Snidely. I assume you're someone's alter-ego but I think it's kind of mean.

Maybe Scarlett is a newly registered Troll? Don't feed it.

as Cynic said, "When I was growing up there was a saying about "sticks and stones..." but now suddenly names will hurt you and it hurts you more when you let it. If people would learn when to respond and when to walk away, (and for that matter, what "bullying" really is) much of this "bullying" and such would be gone."

i often find Elmer a bit harsh but he is right on target with this one!!

Eleanor Roosevelt once said, " No-one can make you feel inferior without your consent."

I've learned that those who are inclined to belittle others are the ones who feel inferior themselves, to their very core. One isn't born to be mean spirited.....one learns it somehow. Oh, I suppose that there are people who are 'wired' that way, much like being left handed. But mostly, it's learned in childhood or somewhere in the years of development.

Individuals who gain a feeling of power and superiority by preying on others are parasites. They don't have the ability to like themselves, to feel empowered and confidant and must suck it out of those around them. It's as simple as that.

Parasites are a natural part of all living systems and aren't necessarily bad. They do seek out the weakest of their target group with an unerring eye; that's true whether the parasite is bacterial, fungal, plant, or animal.

It's difficult to understand that a human would take pleasure out of making another human feel 'lesser than'. Sadly, we see individuals like this of every age and their victims might be of any age, physique, gender

In this day and age, internet bullying is rampant and the victims are countless because they are easy prey. As cold as Eleanor Roosevelt's quote seems to most of us, it has a whiff of truth. We can reduce the injury of internet abuse by ignoring the source.

In real life not cyber its a bit hard for a child to understand and accept Eleanor Roosevelts words if wisdom.

I believe bullying is a learned behavior. I don't think anyone is born a bully. I've watched a classroom of children kindergarden age at a birthday party bully a child while about 15 parents sat around watching and never said a word, swinging plastic play swords, ninja weapons ect..all yelling...ohhh don't touch me I don't want to look like you...not one parent said a word...these children obviously learned this behavior from their parents...or more likely the parents told them don't touch XXX or you will get XXX...so the children over reacted and the parents allowed it..reinforcing to the children its ok to treat someone this way. What do you think happened after the birthday party...that's right a almost full class of children found it acceptable to bully this child....I was more than shocked at these parents..

Children I don't think are naturally cruel. They see what is around them and imitate. I also think gender roles contribute as well. Well, boys will be boys ... boys always fight ... stand up and be a man ... you are bringing this on yourself by acting and speaking the way you do (bullying victim here because I didn't conform to the established gender binary of the period I grew up in).

But I also hear so much about girls bullying girls, and the cyberbullying that occurs between girls is remarkably vicious as one can create different identities because of the technology. There was a case in Missouri where the mother of a girl instigated vicious cyberbullying which resulted in the suicide of the targeted girl.

Now, what get's quite complex and interesting is that now we have exposed the scapegoat mechanism (see Rene Girard, The Scapegoat), it still occurs. Deliberately, not naively. The highest official of this country is deliberately whipping up the scapegoat mechanism and continues to do so with his social media account.

Yet also the exposure of the scapegoat mechanism can also breed a weird kind of competition: I am more of a victim than you are.

I was going to stay out of the rebirth of this old thread, I didn't do well getting my point across when it was fresher 2+ years ago. Maybe I'll have better luck on the newer thoughts.

I'm not going to use the B word because it's been overused to the point of perhaps becoming almost meaningless, in my view.

Kids tease and pester each other. Siblings tease and pester each other. I was a kid, I was a sibling, I was on the giving and receiving end in equal meaure and no more and no less than others. Weren't any of you? It happened less and less after elementary school. It was play, it wasn't hardcore or serious. I understand sometimes it's not gentle, it's not benign, it can be very hurtful and dangerous beyond what's reasonable, that's not what I'm referring to.

Just as child play is a prereq and preparation for kids to be ready for work and serious time when older, is mutually haranguing behavior preparation, as a step of human development, for more normal social or group relations later? Or a practical lesson for "here's what happens when things don't work right, try to do better"? I'm thinking out loud and wondering. I don't know one way or the other and I wonder if the experts do? Certainly the "let's make nice and sing Kumbaya" types don't.

Most adult friends and those in any kind of relationship engage in playful teasing and honest banter, it even happens with work colleagues. Maybe it crosses the line when the perpetrator isn't being friendly or playful?

Teenage girls can be brutal to one another, by the way. This is more common than not and in my own experience as a kid and then later with my own kids of both genders, is not the case nearly as much with teenage boys.

Being kind to someone bullied however you want to define it is not fighting bullies. Nothing changes for the bully.

I agree with Elmer on this one. General meaness and speaking badly about someone is not in and in itself bullying. I get really really tired of how every is redefined toady to suit some agenda. Taunting is bullying, regret sex is rape, a cat call is assault, people redefining everyday words or expressions so they make up one more reason to to be offended. A male acting manly is aggression, a female acting feminine is weak and anti-feminist. My bitch is now a girl dog? WTF? My eyes are rolling about in my head as I type. My the world has become an oversensitive bunch.

I was bullied, pushed shoved, threatened by an older girl and her friends in high school. You know how it ended? When I'd had enough and punched her square in the face. Someone doing something "nice" for me certainly wasn't going to end it but that punch sure did. Felt good too.

I didn't get into before, but here's my thought on what was going on and should go on when people pick on/bully someone. Everyone else who is around and there when it happens, tells the person in the wrong (anyone who picks on anyone is wrong!), not just the recipient [expressing it] (edited to add that). I think telling them they're wrong, or calling them out, shining a light on their stupidity, etc., might get them to rethink what they're doing, or at least it might limit the behavior.

.

Although, I will say befriending a bully ended the bullying at my son's school. More than once. I think they have to be really young for it to work.

I guess I never developed correctly then, Elmer, because I didn't grow up bullying anyone. Even now, the way to make me really mad is to pick on someone else, especially if I should see this while at a school.

As a child, Eleanor Roosevelt was ridiculed mercilessly by her mother. She was homely and not considered a good example of her privileged heritage. She was very sensitive to the discrimination of others and would be, hopefully, angry that a quote of hers was used to defend bullying.

However, she did come from very long line of the wealthy aristocratic population. It was part of her DNA to treat a portion of the population as servants, "lesser thans". Eleanor's grandma was a slave owner.

She was an extremely intelligent person, deeply thoughtful and caring.....she clearly rose above her background and became a warrior for the disenfranchised.

sjerin, if your childhood interactions with siblings/classmates/friends included not even a stitch of friendly bantering or taunting, your's was an unusual experience.

Eleanor Roosevelt was an important figure of her age and was widely loved and admired, and for good reason for all the positive things she did. However, just like her husband, behind the public facade was a dark and troubled life with conflicted conduct that defied the standards of the times and maybe even those of today. She was no Mother Theresa. And for that matter, neither was Mother Theresa.

My grand kids age 3 and 5 taunt and tease each other all the time. However they love each other to pieces. Horrors to some of the sensitive types here but they even get into physical fights. Parents only intervene if someone could actually get seriously hurt.

I burst out laughing the other day when they got into it with one another. DD yelled at them, "Stop it! Stop! Pictures, pictures, picture day! No black eyes or bruises!" LOL

My boys will argue back and forth and once in awhile the younger will hit the older knowing he won't hit back..I will stay out of the arguing as long as I can in hopes they can solve the issue on their own if I see its not going anywhere than I step in...but hitting I will always step in. Nothing is ever solved by hitting. Might be cute when they are little tykes but once they are in school and hit a classmate because it was acceptable behavior at home..its not so cute anymore.

Bullying is a major problem and I have seen much of it in adults throwing their power around. What is even worse is the example set bumpy our new Bully in Chief. It is nothing new, but it seems to me that it is the adults who set the example.

once in awhile the younger will hit the older knowing he won't hit back..

Not for a moment am I implying that this is an example of bullying but some food for thought. Bullies pick on people who won't fight back. So the younger is sort of learning it is OK to hit those who won't hit back.

My grands are big for their age. The 5 year old is the size of an average 7 year old and her little bro looks like a really sturdy 5. She's bigger, he's stronger. But what both of them know is hitting hurts. They know that if they bully they are just as likely to sustain damage as the other. That is the lesson in letting kids work things out for themselves. It's a lesson most kids in the 50s/60s learned.

Lots of kids today grow up without taking any hard knocks. Eventually they come across violence on TV, in the movies or in games no matter how sheltered. Those are the ones who use guns instead of fists. Often after years of being the objects of bullies or becoming bullies themselves through frustration. Violence is all imaginary to them since they have never had the experience of being hit or hurt growing up.

I don't think hitting/punching by kids of other kids should ever be tolerated.

http://nypost.com/2013/10/20/the-bullies-will-keep-winning-if-kids-dont-fight-back/

You know, I was a shy, picked on kid. And during college, I made a very concerted effort to come out of my shell. I became skilled at choosing friends who were as sensitive as I was, and at negotiating social interactions with more prickly types, to prevent getting offended. And I learned how to "be" in group situations, without so much self-consciousness.

As an adult, with kids whose temperaments and sensitivities are very similar to my own, I see now a clear path toward, not protecting them exactly, but giving them tools to "deal" with all kinds of kids, and how not to be bullied. I have been, if I do say so, very successful in this. I have used some of the strategies mentioned here: get to know the bullies a bit, have a playdate, have them become very good at SOMETHING, to build confidence. And have a few effective things to say to the "bully". I do agree that the word bully is overused. Insensitive is a better word, or actually, unskilled-at-helping-behaviors is even better. What I have observed at school recess is a kid getting made fun of by an insensitive kid (or a nice kid having an insensitive moment), but the kids who stand by and laugh, are not skilled at a more grown up behavior, which is stepping in to ease the discomfort of the laughed-at kid.

Many adults can't do this. Some teachers can't do this. It should be modeled and role-played, and taught. And the bullied kid needs to defuse the discomfort somehow.

To that end, I see Snidelys point of view, in that, (sadly) there IS something the bullied can learn to do, and it does NOT have to be losing the weight or changing their orientation or identity, but it sure would be helpful to learn some fresh coping strategies. I knew an obese girl in high school who bullied me horribly. It's not always the "differences" that are the problem, tho sometimes it obviously is.

And, let the insults fly, I guess, but I find Snidely entertaining, and I don't have to agree with him to respect his point of view, as it helps me tap into what I think. Piling on anyone for their point of view, even if it is despised, isn't giving the helping behaviors that indicate maturity. And I point it out to kiddos all the time in my duties as playground mom.

The problem is a lot of bullying is verbal. I was a kid in the 90's and I was bullied mercilessly by many kids. No one ever touched me. They used their words to hurt me and damage my self-esteem. Hitting one of them wouldn't have solved anything as there were many involved. And I would have gotten in big trouble for punching someone who called me a name.

It's even worse now with social media. At least as a child, when I got home I was safe but now it follows you. I can only imagine what those jerks would have done to me online. And it's not so easy to just log off.

I teach young children and we don't allow hitting at all - the instigator is promptly punished, usually a time out and a talking to. If two kids both hit each other, they are both punished, regardless of who started it. We reinforce that if someone is hurting them or bothering them, to go to the teacher, not to try to handle it themselves. Otherwise you get the 5 year old thinking it's okay to hit the 2 year old who stole their ball.

The poor little boy in Idaho is hit and shoved and having stones thrown at him for having a rare disease that deforms his face. He's had multiple surgeries. His dad made a public plea and now other school kids and people in town are watching out for him to make sure that he's not bullied and that he's safe.

Kids need to get off their high horse and spoiled and entitled behaviour and quit thinking that they're above/better than anyone else.

ya know, i think just about every living thing has the natural tendency to "dominate" others to some extent. bigger & stronger win out. is it bullying when that cheetah catches that cute baby zebra? is it bullying when taller sunflowers grow taller and bigger?

i'm convinced that a LOT of so called "bullying" can be walked away from!

Thru a rare birth defect support I met a parent who's son had what looked like a port wine stain covering most of his face..Alex was his name.one day and this was before all the schools were locked down Alex's mother took something into the school that Alex forgot...when she looked in Alex's class room thru the glass door she did not see Alex at his seat, panicking she opened the door asking where he was. ... the teacher responded with I can't have him distracting my class....So where was Alex?? He was in the coat closet sound asleep. This teacher lost her job in this school district, but not before she made a five year old feel ashamed and terrified and not before she taught a class room of other 5 year olds that its ok to treat others this way.

I don't think this example is representative of any widespread problems. It sounds like this teacher was lacking in good judgement and should never have been placed in a classroom. If she hadn't lost her job for this incident, there likely would have been something else before too long.

Unlike in many countries, salaries for school teachers in the US are low. Other than the minority who feel a pull for the job as a personal calling, work hard to do their best and can live with the low income levels, our society's best and brightest college grads aren't lured into the teaching profession. Hiring standards are pretty low in many places, certainly in my area. We get what we pay for.

Only by raising salaries, raising hiring standards, and raising performance expectations (which would be fought by the unions) will things get better.