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What’s a good safe cure to stop or slow root entering sewer line?

9 years ago

What’s a good safe cure to stop or slow root entering sewer line? This has been a problem at our home built in 1969 with a 1” dia Ball Cypress on top of the line. We planted a Live Oak that I felt was the closes (until I learned our line ran diagonal across our front vs straight to the City’s main.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

I finally geared for yearly summer PM cleaning after having a needs 2-3 winters. After 10–20 years my machines and I slowed, wishing we had an easier to use camera to ck for needs first. So I moved the PM to 2 yrs or indications.

Recently I was hearing an indication at the AC’ trap (a low gurgle sound) and seeing a slight sign at the Kitchen’s Clean-out Entry (due to a screened vented plug to show overflow). My inspection showed I got approx 16 oz of water from the washer spinning water out ( mid to late in the spin cycle when the 2” pipe filled, with good flow showing in the 4” home to City main pipe).

I had replaced approx 20’ of 2” cast iron pipe in 03 due to a camera discovering a hole in the bottom of a section of the pipe (said to have a 40 yr life span cleaned/drained properly). My guess was to open the replaced pipe in the garage storage area’s floor. I drilling 3/8” holes in an 8” dia broke a hole in the concrete. Then dug 8-10” to the pipe. My plan was to drill a 1” whole or as needed and push or feed ½” cable 10’ or so (in both directions) looking for signs of grease as the camera showed before.

Before drilling I realized there was a finger size root with finer roots in the area. I did not drill to add to my 2 hrs of investigating. I could see one of the stainless couplers that were used on the replaced cast iron. I did not see a root entering the joint but that will be my next test when I Rotor Rooter (to see if I can feel or recover roots from the sections added).

I would appreciate any tips or experiences controlling roots. Thanks!

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Comments (13)

loger_gw
Original Author
9 years ago
Past prevention methods were to trench along my driveway and flowerbed that shields the tree from the house. This idea came from seeing surfaced roots on the opposite side of the double drive. I felt the flowerbed’s bricks d/n have good footing causing the brick trim to have four breaks. During my effort to repair, I found at least a 4” dia roots at each break and “Good Footing”. Plus at least four 4” dia roots were cut in the trench along the drive. The surfaced roots on the other side of the drive continued to grow (indicating the 6”sections removed were from different roots). <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

A Camera did not see any sighs of roots in the 4” line this winter. This was while the City inspected. I signed-up for a clean-out tap at the curb approx 6’ from the tree.

30 years ago a friend recommended that I remove the tree but d/n stress the reasons. The Builder planted one in the majority of the front yards on this block.
loger_gw
Original Author
9 years ago
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Pics of my past efforts of slowing root’s damage.
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bigdually
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We have laid bare copper wire on top of tile to keep roots out of it seems to work
loger_gw
Original Author
9 years ago
Thanks bigdually!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Good info that Tree roots avoid copper sulphate. I found plenty info at links as this one listed. Usually for every positive benefit there is a negative. Please share more of both. I would need to treat my under the concrete slab through my clean-outs across the house and house to street. Would copper wire in the two sections be better than or as good as adding pellets or chemicals (the full dist or half ea)?

http://www.balkanplumbing.com/tree-roots-in-sewer-repair-replacement-sewer-line/

Will bleach stop roots from entering sewer lines from personal experiences. If so, what would be the negative of using bleach?
rgress
9 years ago
A few years ago This Old House did a show on how a sewer line can lined with an hard epoxy lining. I don't know how expensive it is but probably not real cheap.

http://www.thisoldhouse.com/toh/video/0,,20808120,00.html
loger_gw
Original Author
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Thanks for sharing. I had seen methods of lining Cast Iron pipes and felt it was related to larger City Mains vs small residents. The residents in these small track homes have used two methods on the 2” line under the concrete slabs.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

1. Jack-hammering and trenching or tunneling to the closest exit from under the slap toward the 4” pipe going to the street. This can be a big “Expensive Mess” depending on how far you need to travel inside.

2. Exit at the kitchen sink usually on an eternal wall and travel around the house with the 2” to the 4” line. In these 1968-69 built homes with Cast Pipes “Just Before PVC Became Standard”. The problems have been 2” line vs 4”. The washer and A/C are usually worked above the floor in the garage “if possible” to exit to the 2” coming around the house.

3. The 4” lines to two commodes are usually just under the same ext wall that tunneling is not as hard or messy but I’m sure expensive.

We had planned to move to a newer better built home (1990 to mid 90s affordable). We made a serious effort about 2000 to learn newer homes can have their challenges. Retired in 03, “Was Traveling” and Fishing But Relaxing Happy In This 1,800 Sq Ft For Now!
bigdually
9 years ago
We have laid one on top could try copper sulfate in clean out don't know if it would effect rest of system
loger_gw
Original Author
9 years ago
Is there a debate on using Copper Sulfate and Etc to kill/clean roots without harming trees Etc outside of the sewer pipes? My reason for my question is due to a search on “Using copper sulfate to kill tree roots in the sewer lines” in this site. “Some Opinions”, Plus I talked to a 40 + years experience Plumber at home Depot and checked the site below. I’ll say I was hearing two sides related to using chemicals.

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

http://npic.orst.edu/factsheets/cuso4gen.html

1. They can be harmful without and with all the safeguards.

2. Per the Experienced Plummer, Roto Rooter is the thing to do. He went on to say Cast Iron will only last so long. I doubt they would use designs with it under concrete foundations w/o it lasting and extremely long time (if installed properly). I have heard that the life is 40 yrs which is not reasonable IMO. I feel I have seen some 60 years old w/o a problem. I know or feel not draining properly due to settling or foundation issuers in a section was the problem here vs Roots initially. I replaced the cast until it was back to approx new thickness.

3. My plan is to Rotor Rooter to get the faster flow and flush of normal dangers to the pipe (which can look rough and deteriorating). That brings the next concern as to how often would maintain the opening w/o some chemical that will slow the roots (1-2 cleanings yearly is what I hear). Owning a 1/2” and ¾” cable/machine made it reasonable 30-40 years. “But Now”. LOL!

The worst of the 2” pipe I replaced is attached and inside the 4” pipe to the street.
loger_gw
Original Author
9 years ago
Three holes (attached) in the Kitchen floor allowed me to replace the bad cast iron pipe and joints needed. A mix of cast iron and PVC in sections was used due to 1-2 cast fitting were not available locally. Why some cast pipe was used in the garage is what I can not remember. It was hard on the back and time consuming tunneling vs being to destructive. Most time consuming was getting a “Y” out of a concrete beam connecting the kitchen sink across the walkway to the washer before traveling through to the garage. It seemed we jack-hammered forever hoping either would break. That hole was under the Frig where all the damage was. We had 20 year old extra tile to replace the few needed. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

I doubt I saved a penny (listening to my body) but was pleased not to deal with my Insurance Co. The Camera Tech and others told me the Insurance would cover the damage of getting to the plumbing matter and repairs afterward. The plumbing in some cases were covered if roots were involved on some Ins. I’ll have to go back and look at the Root Clauses for future references (Before We Bail Out To A Retirement Etc).
loger_gw
Original Author
9 years ago
Kitchen/Washer/Sewer Follow-Up:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

A follow-up on the 2” 1969 installed sewer line as Good Or Bad. The last section in the 2003 repair looks full size and good vs deteriorated. There is "New" restriction in the line. Even though, the washer is not overflowing at the Kitchen’s Clean-Out. The 2” cutters will not pass through the line as they should.

The 2” cutters snapped at some point trying to force them through resistance. The shorter sections were not traveling when discovered.
1. I installed a spring recovery tool to try and bring back the resistance and it went through the resistance (as one cutter would have with no signs of roots “dragging the line out vs rotating”.
2. What ever the resistance is, it has moved as I slowed to grind roots but it never reached the 4” line (as that was my objective. It sounds hard as a piece of pipe.
3. I’ll play it by ear since all seems to be working well, except for a clean 2” to 4” line. I will research renting a camera since I know there is a problem.
4. Summary, resistance is moving in 2” line vs signs when the cable is pulled w/o rotating. No signs of roots, no backflow from washer or gurgle at AC’s trap with good flow showing in 4” line to street.
Any tips are appreciated, see the attachment.
loger_gw
Original Author
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Please share any experience you have had personally with a simple mid costing Sewer Inspection Camera. It’s hard to believe what I’m seeing for Commercial Grade Cameras cost or rental. 300.00 A day is the approx cost I’m looking at a day in this area to rent or probably to have it inspected as in 03. I see some simple cameras that will probably show my restriction and location.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

I can see a 9’ handheld camera/scope or 45’ cabled pushed camera working due to my multiple entries of the 50’ of 2” section of pipe. I felt renting or independent Plumbers would be the best option w/o a question. With one option of rental X 2” and no contacts or replies back from independents this seems strange. I feel I can re-open my past trench in my garage’s closet and find or reach the problem. Except, I added extra strength concrete and steel in the 8” wide trench.

Since this is not pressing due to draining with a known resistance, I’ll plan to measure the cable to the resistance. If it’s in or close to the past trench, remove a 30-36” section of 03’s pipe. I feel I will find some broken cast iron form shifting soil or roots since the resistance appeared to move, broke my cutters and the retriever goes through w/o resistance. At this point a 4” Camera will travel “Straight” in the 2” cast at 40.00 per 4 hrs.
loger_gw
Original Author
9 years ago
Thanks for sharing the This Old House method of lining a cast pipe. I had my pipe inspected with a camera yesterday. We found a deteriorated break (bottom left side) vs a snap break just before the pipe makes a downward brand. I feel the downward bend is due to my raised front entry that you step down 5” to a Hallway or Den. I feel my cutters have been hanging up at the start of the bend due to seeing bent metal vs snapped cast. I hope the liner will work and be the most economical. Helpfully this will be the only damage since 15’ of pipe was replaced before this point and it all showed to be still good since 03.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Another down side is I was not cleaning to my 4” line in this 2” line compared to the camera’s measurements. My 50’ cable was coming up 15’ short compared to the camera. The entry, trap, cable cage and a 45 degree across the 10’ kitchen area accounts for maybe 6’+ differences vs 15’???? It appears and sounds to be draining fine but I can see and know there is a problem at this point and grease and Etc 15’ to the 4” line (in the 50’ wide house). This would have been detected in 03 if I had let the Tech pressure clean the line to the 4” line (for an additional 100.00) vs me thinking I was cleaning enough.

I will try to share a PrintScreen shot taken with my camera from my screen LOL to show the damage. I have had trouble capturing Pics from the video the Tech gave me. Has anyone in the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" />Dallas/Fort Worth area had a 2” cast pipe repair using the epoxy sleeve method and by what company??

PS. I hate to think my wife is trying to get me to move from our 1973 purchased home, enlarged/enhanced in 1977. I’m ready if we can match the comfort of this 70’ X 120’ lot Holding my 2 trailers and Stuff.
loger_gw
Original Author
9 years ago
Broken 2” Cast Sewer Line Update:<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />
1. A sewer line camera located the break.
2. I had plans to remove 12” X 24” above and below a 5” step-down (12” X 18” was allowed due to a beam).
3. We found the break under the beam (working tight) as a Home Owner vs A Plumber.
4. Got the Camera Tech back out to examine the remainder of 2” to 4” pipe and all 4” to The City’s Tap (all looked fair).
5. There was a sag in the 2” holding water, the cleaning’s sound and camera view exposed (as possibly the next issue).
6. Looking back at the video, broken cutters and end of cleaning traveling was the hole in the bottom of the cast.
7. 38” of 2” cast was replaced with PVC.
8. I have Walk-Boards trapped in the openings and will observe for 3-4 days (Breaking) before Filling/Finishing.
9. This would be an ideal Trench-Less Re-Lining Repair if 2” line is possible (As I Saw W/O Researching).
10. 40 Year Cast under concrete foundations IMO will be an Expensive Mess Until The Old Homes Are Replaced.
11. PVC has it’s problems In Shifting Soil (breaks) vs Decaying From Poor Draining/Cleaning And Tree Roots.
12. I have approx 16 hrs in this repair and expect 8 + to close/finish vs 70 hrs total in 03’s larger repair.
13. Having a few skill pays when this is not covered or added in your Home Owner’s Ins Clauses.
14. I d/n seal off the drilling working alone vs plenty water with help. I had no idea from my 1st repair how dust travels.
PS. Is Rock Salt a better option in your cast sewer (w/o causing rusting) to resist Roots vs Aluminum Sulfate?

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