Ms. Poland:

As a former solid surface fabricator, it is absolutely maddening to me to repeatedly hear of the shortcomings of natural stone, especially in light of the availability of information, here and elsewhere.

I fabricated and installed Corian and other solid surface products for over a decade and never, yes I said never, had customer disappointment the likes of which the natural stone industry seems to get away with regularly.

When guys like me post pictures of residential granite cracking from hot pots on stoner websites, we are banned, even when we put them in the non-public areas.

It sounds to me like you're got an excellent case against the fabricator and contractor for misleading you as to the nature of this stone. That can't happen quickly enough to suit me. Good luck.

P.S. Salespersons lying to customers is completely unrelated to salespersons setting customer expectations. Had you had honest salespeople and properly set expectations, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I'd do butcher block. Black granite wouldn't go with your perimeter counters. And yes, what you have is marble. Honed or leathered marble is just as succeptable to etching (being dissolved) by acids as polished. It just shows it less because the surface is more matte.

Is there a particular reason you are steering clear of soapstone for the island top? It sounds like you are very happy with it for the perimeter of the kitchen (a beautiful space, btw!)

Well, I was just looking for an accent. I do love the soapstone, but I wanted something on the island that would pop. We may end up doing soapstone though. However, I'm worried about that too because we have very distinctive soapstone on the counters but that was bought and installed in October, so I don't even know if we could get anything comparable. It would be bad if it looked SORT OF THE SAME. I'd rather have something completely different than something that "almost matches." I am so bummed!

I agree with Sophie. Butcher block would look great in your kitchen. Or do as laughable suggested and carry the soapstone throughout.

BTW, I used to have a table just like yours.

Your kitchen looks so warm & welcoming! Couple of things. If you love the stone and find out it is marble can you learn to love the etching? Many people on GW who love marble seem to embrace the etching & patina that happens over time. It certainly sounds like you were mislead & shouldn't pay for quartzite if that is not what you received. Just something to consider. It certainly is a beautiful stone. If that is not a consideration then I think butcher block would be beautiful in your kitchen. I am going in circles myself trying to find the right countertop so I can understand your disappointment.

I would agree that the black granite looks too close to the soapstone. Butcher block would be great. Or if you aren't okay with the scratches, etc that come with butcher block, maybe one of the lighter engineered quartz tops would work.

We strongly considered butcher block prior to choosing the quartzite. I would have to really think about either BB or marble, though, because the soapstone we chose is already the sort of finish that shows a patina and wear and tear, and I really wanted one area that was not going to look all chopped up and worn with time if you know what I mean. This is the very center of our kitchen and the focal point of the room. We do have black accents and I am familiar with how the honed black granite wears - it's what's on the work table in the designer's showroom and I know it takes a beating and still looks great. My husband seems to lean in that direction. I just spoke with him and we've decided to allow the contractor to refinish the quartzite surface and reseal it, and then we're going to give it the lemon juice test. If it etches, then we're going to replace it. Not sure how etching looks on marble, but I don't like how it looks on this stone.

How about a true quartzite in a white/gray (although I can't really tell what color your floors are)? I worry that the leathered black granite is too "sort of the same" in the same way that you think a soapstone would be. Sea Pearl or Taj Mahal? Would depend on your floor....

" I am familiar with how the honed black granite wears - it's what's on the work table in the designer's showroom and I know it takes a beating and still looks great."

Are they using cooking oils, vinegars, and pickles in the designer showroom? If the showroom countertop is not being used in the same manner as your kitchen workstation, I would be leary of making that comparison. Perhaps they can give you a sample to bring home and do some tests on.

They're going to give me a sample and they want me to do some testing on it. They called me this afternoon and discussed it with me. I'm eager to try it out.

My opinion is live with it. It looks good, you like the look, enjoy, use it, and quit worrying about it. Part of using a natural product, is living with it's shortcomings.

Give it a year or so and then revisit replacing it. If after a year, it is still that big of a deal, replace it.

The problem with giving it a year or so is that it was very expensive and if I decide I don't like it after a year or so, I've just thrown my money out the door. I don't mind living with a natural product - like I said earlier, my other counter tops are soapstone, which is very soft and develops a lot of scratches and worn areas quickly and naturally. That is not the finish I wanted on this island and that's not the finish that was sold to me. I HATE round rings on wood furniture where a glass has been left, and I can't imagine ever embracing that look on the focal point of my kitchen. We spent $30,000 on that kitchen - that's too much money for me to have to "make do" with the island in the center of it! If you could see it in real life, you would see that it no longer looks good by the way. When the installer came out the other day to try to buff out the etched ring, he left a much larger roughened spot on it that is very obvious, so basically he damaged it more. He even admits that he made a mistake and used the wrong products on it.

Let us know how everything works out. Good luck with your testing.

Just to back you up Melanie - yes, that is marble, and obviously they didn't know what they were talking about when they told you it was bulletproof. We have seen that happen fairly often on GW, which is why I write these geology posts.

Joseph's initial post to you is a real head-scratcher and kudos to you for doing your homework and standing up for yourself with the salespeople.

The dark granites can show hard water deposits and also they can get spotted if they are sealed. I don't quite get why this happens, but I've seen photos of what looks like etches on Absolute Black and similar stones. Do a search here and see if you can find those threads.

Sorry for your trauma, what a bummer. But you are clearly headed for a better resolution. Keep your chin up!

Thanks, Karin. I was pretty surprised by the "tear it out and quit whining" post by a supposed "pro" myself. Tear out a slab of stone that cost me over $1200 just four months ago and blame MYSELF for not "researching" it well enough when I had not one, but two professionals who I had hired and paid to give me accurate advice telling me that it was quartzite and very durable and would NOT etch or need sealing more than once a year? Homie don't play dat! Besides that - quartzite is a relatively new product here in the US. Even the professionals who imported it and sold it to me were stumped by it's performance or lack thereof and freely told me that they had only sold a few of these honed/leathered pieces and weren't particularly familiar with the pros OR the cons of them. My gosh, if they don't know - how is a layperson supposed to be an expert on this stuff???

He's right though, either replace it, or live with it.
If your fab/installer is offering to replace it, free/discounted, or not, those are your options.
Personally I would live with it for a while, as I would possibly realize that it just isn't that big of a deal. That's me. If a stain/etch/spot on your island is that big of a deal, then see the first sentence in this paragraph.

That said, I can't imagine telling a customer that a product could be so durable that it wouldn't ever etch/stain/chip/break/need sealing. Sales people think when they oversell a product/service that they are doing you a favor, but what they are doing it making your expectations unrealistic, and then any and all problems will be blown out of proportion (don't take that the wrong way, I'm not directing that at you, just to everyone in general) because joe blow the office guy said it wouldn't etch/stain/chip/burn/need sealing/whatever.

I get what you're saying - but that's not what he was saying - LOL! He was saying "Rip it out and quit whining - it's your fault because you didn't do your research." That's not what happened. I did do my research, and on top of that was told that this quartzite was NOT prone to etching or scratching and would be a durable surface for a work station, which has not proven to be true, since it has scratched and etched very easily in the few short months we've had it. They didn't say it would NEVER etch/stain/chip/break/need sealing - we wouldn't have been naive enough to believe that. They said it was tough and wouldn't EASILY etch and would only need to be sealed about once a year, similar to granite. That has not been the case, so that's where the disconnect is. So we are probably going to allow the installer to replace it with a different stone, probably that honed granite.

We have soapstone counter tops so obviously wear and tear doesn't bother us - we're not anal about it in other words. But on this ONE focal point of the kitchen, we wanted something that would wear well, and the etching in particular bothers me. I can't see spending $1200 for an island top and not even being able to put a jar of pickles or a glass of wine on it without it leaving a round ring. That's not how the product was marketed to us and it's not what we want for that particular spot in our kitchen. So I'm very glad the installer is prepared to replace it with something more suited to our needs.

it's painful to see you have to defend and explain yourself . you were obviously misled. it's generous of you to even give your installer a second chance. third chance actually, considering he used the wrong product for repair. they clearly don't even know what the material is themselves.

sorry you're not getting the look you originally wanted, but at least you'll get the durability.

Thanks. I hate to lose the beauty of whatever it is that we have in there now, but proof to me that it's not what it was said to be was when the installer used a product FOR quartzite on it and damaged it further. There you have it. It's not pure quartzite, which is what we paid for and what we expected. But it will all be OK. I don't believe that anyone intentionally misled us and it's going to be corrected and the kitchen will still look great and I'll have a durable surface to work on.

The bottom line here is that quartzite IS much more bulletproof in the ways Melanie was seeking. She knew that because she did her research on quartzite - and obviously had done enough research on marble to know that she did NOT want etching. It's not so much over-selling the properties of a stone that happened here, it was actually misrepresentation of the type of stone she had picked out. And, luckily, the fabricators and contractors are owning this error and are dedicated to making it right. Not everyone who ends up with these scenarios is as fortunate.

I like the idea of exploring a TRUE quartzite, as that was what you wanted in the first place and it would perform as you want it to. Why compromise now? Luca de luna, for example, looks similar to your stone and is a true quartzite - and there are other gorgeous choices. I'm not sure I'd go honed or leathered with it, though. I hear the performance starts falling off when you do that...

You make some excellent points, steph2000. Thankfully we have some time to research it because the installer has agreed to come out and refinish the piece completely with the correct sealant and has agreed that if we aren't pleased with it, he will still replace it. This gives us the slim chance of keeping a stone that we love the looks of, and gives him, by his own admission, the opportunity to learn something new about quartzite that may not be pure, or that may be in a finish he isn't familiar with. Nothing ventured, nothing gained and if we aren't pleased, we get a new top anyway. This gives us the chance to look at our options more closely. Hard to go through though.

I'm sorry this happened to you, but thankfully your installer is working with you. That is a beautiful piece of stone, what a shame. I am considering quartzite for my island as well and these type of issues get me really worried. If the stone professionals can't tell you whether or not it's true quartzite, it seems like quite a risk. I don't understand why they have such difficulty with doing so. Keep us posted on the end result.

Sounds like a great resolution all around. You get to try to keep your lovely stone and if it doesn't work out, you get to replace it. I'm glad your installer has really stepped up on this for you.

I can certainly see being bowled over by the looks of your quartzite, Melanie - truly stunning!!! Please keep us updated on the progress - not a huge thing in the grand scheme of things, I know, but it still sucks for you and I'm sorry!

"Salespersons lying to customers is completely unrelated to salespersons setting customer expectations. Had you had honest salespeople and properly set expectations, we wouldn't be having this conversation."

Actually, a salesperson lying to a customer is absoulutely related to setting customer expectations. If a salesperson is uninformed, makes a mistake with the information, flat out lies, etc. with the information he gives to a customer, he has set that customer's expection with false information. So how are we supposed to know if we have an honest salesperson? How are we supposed to know if our expectations have been set properly?

I'll take it one step further. I don't think the supplier, the installer OR the contractor was intentionally deceiving us. I think the supplier knew it was a soft quartzite but didn't know where we were going to put it or what our requirements were. I think the installer wasn't familiar with the various types of quartzite and their variations. Same with the contractor. I think both the installer and contractor just heard "quartzite" and didn't press the supplier for more details, so I do hold them responsible even though I think it was an honest mistake. And they have admitted to their mistake so we're all on the same sheet of music. My contractor even gave me the phone number of the supplier and we had a good conversation and the supplier was very open about it being a "soft quartzite" which would etch with acidic liquids - and was surprised that we hadn't been told that by our contractor - but then they hadn't told the contractor that either, nor had they been asked about the differences - which showed them that they need to be more proactive about telling contractors about the differences in their stones. The supplier was also surprised that the installer had apparently used the wrong sealant on it initially and also didn't know how to remove etching - so you see that there had been a breakdown in communication at a level higher than the one we were dealing with. The contractor and installer and supplier were not on the same sheet of music. We had basically zero interaction with the supplier - all our communication was with the installer and the contractor.

The irony may be that you got lucky that the installer used the wrong sealant, thereby showing the etching sooner. A better sealant may have only postponed the inevitable, perhaps just long enough that your supplier/installer would be less willing to replace.

Glad it's all going to work out.

The Lamborghini/tire analogy was a bad one. It's more as if you had researched the hardness of flooring, decided on maple, and had pine installed instead. The research could be impeccable, but not applicable to what you got. (Except that most people would recognize that switch, so that analogy isn't perfect, either.)

The terminology in the stone business drives me crazy-- I don't understand why it needs to be so garbled. Quartzite and marble are not even siblings, more like cousins (I'm also a geologist.) I am not even sure what is meant by "soft quartzite that might etch." Quartz is quartz, its hardness isn't variable. Maybe they are talking about something with a carbonate cement? KarinMT,what do you think?

As much stone as there is getting used today, I would think the industry could come up with some standards and commit to some standard terminology. There are many quarries in the world, but not an infinite number, and it really isn't hard to name the stones correctly. Sure, they might want to have their colorful or "common names" as well for marketing purposes, but the actual rock type would be included and maybe some kind of classification system that would help consumers. You shouldn't have to take mineralogy and igneous and metamorphic petrology in order to make reasonable countertop decisions (OK, I'll put that on my list for things to do when I rule the world...)

Amen to all of that, Lori! If I wanted to be a flooring expert, I'd go take some classes. If I wanted to be a geologist, I'd go take some classes. Likewise, if I wanted to be a dental hygienist I'd take classes too! But I don't have time for all that - that's why I count on reputable professionals to know their stuff - and I'm willing to pay them for their expertise. And a true professional backs their recommendations and actions and takes responsibility for their mistakes, so at least I do have that going for me since all professionals involved are as dismayed as I am and very willing to correct the issue. Clearly they don't consider this my fault. You are absolutely right - there needs to be STANDARDS for what is called what. For instance - what the heck IS "soft quartzite?" It's impure quartzite and actually it's the impurities which make it beautiful - and fragile. If they have enough problems and complaints about it, and have to eat the costs a few times, they may change their industry and marketing standards. But we have to speak up and we have to demand transparency and accountability from them. What we shouldn't have to do is be experts in geology.

Melanie - let's say the stone guy refinishes your counter top and it looks great. Does it really matter? The stone that is currently there is not appropriate for your stated needs. I think you may be setting yourself up for more disappointment because as beautiful as it may look after it is refinished, it is still the same stone and it will still etch. Perhaps you need to consider having them take it away since the stone is never going to meet your needs no matter how pretty it looks!

For durability and because I love the way it looks, I have a stainless steel top on my island. It is strictly for prep work. The island has a pullout table with two legs for an eating area. Perfect for just me and hubby.

Well, I already have the island base and it was custom made for the space. The look is a vintage farmhouse look so I'm thinking either honed granite or VERY polyurethaned/protected wood - maybe some repurposed antique wood. Of course I couldn't chop anything on it but I always use a cutting board anyway. My husband seems opposed to the idea of wood though, even very highly sealed and protected wood. It makes him nervous.

From your description of the type of performance you want for your island, I seriously recommend you steer clear of honed granite -- it looks beautiful, but it is in many cases prone to oil stains. You said earlier that you wanted the same performance as your prior countertops, which where polished granite. If you want something that wont scratch, dent, stain, or etch, then you should probable go with one of the hardier polished granites, like uba tuba, blue pearl, etc. Or maybe a solid surface or quartz product. You are likely to be disappointed with many of the lighter-colored natural stone options, as they all typically have some performance limitations.

I feel for you regarding the crummy advice you got from the "professionals". I too found the folks in the stone trade to be either uninformed or intentionally misleading when it comes to the properties of their products.

Can I get an amen?!

We purchased 3 huge slabs of sequoia brown quartzite and loved in. Then we started noticing etching and scratches. We had white scarring all over the counter from a spoon droppingon it and many other things that should not damage it. Luckily the store from which we purchased offeredto remove and replace the counters and backsplash. It took 10 months to find a replacement. A PAINFUL EXPERIENCE! We are awaiting the fabrication of our new counters Antique Spinella leathered? The photo is our new counter with cabinet door and backsplash

Just FYI, Soapstone is one of the softest countertop options available

"Just FYI, Soapstone is one of the softest countertop options available"

And as an FYI, this is a 3 year old post............

Just curious - what was the end result Melanie? What ended up happening? (curious b/c i'm researching a quartzite for a kitchen countertop as well)

I am a fabricator. It distresses me when someone goes thru an experience like yours because the stone supplier or fabricator did not accurately communicate the material properties of a particular stone. In my shop we make CERTIAN a customer knows the properties of a stone they are considering including signing off on the details because we don't want that unhappy customer coming back a few months down the road.

"soft quartzite " doesn't exist. If it's soft (and etches) it's marble and has all the performance deficiencies marble is known for. with Real quartzite is so hard it's a challenge to process in the fab shop which is part of the reason it's considerably more expensive.

For your application the only long term option is to replace the top with any one of hundreds of options in natural stone that will hold up to your planned use with little or no maintenance.

We just built a house and when I went to the supplier for my counter tops I was told that the Sequoia was granite and the few scratches that were on the slabs would buff out and disappear when sealed. Well... we are living in our home and the counter tops are scratching with every little jar, knife and even hard plastic! I finally called them and they did some research and told me that it is marble. I called my installer and told him it was marble and he argued with me until I told him the supplier is the one who told me it was marble. Now we will wait and see what happens. We installed 3 slabs in our brand new home.

I’m having the exact same problem as Melanie! Was sold a product supplier called quartzite with a leathered finish. Material immediately began etching, with dull areas appearing on surface. It is so soft I can actually scratch it with my fingernail! The pictures Melanie took could have come from my kitchen. What in the heck did these people sell me? Seller says I cleaned it with a harsh cleaner or fabricator put something on it that’s peeling off. I used soap and water and Fabricator says he put nothing on it. Short of hiring an attorney, which I definitely don’t want to do, I’m at a loss. Melanie, please tell us how’s your situation was resolved.

Kay David: You need matte Stoneguard. It will solve your problems for a fixed fee, unlike taking a shot with a lawyer.

Joseph,

Matte Stoneguard can this be used over Dry-Treat Stain proof? My installer use this product but won't guarantee stains on marble. Thanks in advance.

@oldryder

What would you suggest to be used on a counter? I don't want quartz and I don't want formica or corian.

I am looking for a natural stone that is some what durable but light in color. My last kitchen Honed Virginia Jet Mist which was wonderful. No issues. Loved that counter but in this kitchen I am looking for a slab backsplash that will have movement and be light in color like a calacatta marble.

Any ideas.

Thanks boxer

Karin & LE: someone commented that to hone or leather quartzite might negatively impact its hard/durable qualities. Is this correct? In what ways would it change the characteristics of the stone? If Brown Sequoia is a marble, would it be equally problematic in a bathroom as in a kitchen?

Nope, honed/leathered won't change hardness or durability,

The rough finish is a bit harder to keep clean, and in some cases can stain sliiiiightly easier than a smooth polish. But I have yet to really test that idea, so I'm not 100% sure.

Bathrooms are easier than kitchens - less hard objects flying around, less acids. BUT, some cosmetics and cleaning products are just as bad.

Brown Sequoia is mostly marble, but maybe a smidge better than pure marble. IIRC, the hardness is around 5 and it does etch, but slowly. It's silty/sandy marble, not pure calcite marble.

I have heard that sometimes pieces of stone are labeled quartzite but they end up actually being marble, which is very soft and porous.

Melanie, I know this post is old but do you know the name is the stone supplier? And yes, I have the same stone with the same problems.

Your quartzite is gorgeous. As for getting oil stains out, my stone company used 100% acetone and my quartzite looks amazing again. I had oily stains from the bottom of an old sheet plan that was placed directly on the stone. I had used every granite oil remover on the market but nothing worked. I worked on it for over a year before calling my stone company to come out.
They put paper towels over the stains, soaked those with the acetone, covered it with plastic wrap and sealed the edges with regular masking tape. Let it sit covered for 3 days covered and then two more days uncovered. It worked like magic!