Water softener sizing

9 years ago

First I am sure that you have answered this a million different ways but I just want to be sure what I understand from what I read is correct.

I am replacing the main water line to my house and removing all the old galvanized piping (This is due to various leaks and a working pressure of 30psi). While doing this I thought I would have a water softener installed. The plumber I have chosen to work with does not sell water softeners but said if I buy it he would install it at no additional charge. My question is what size unit do I need.

Water Quality information

Water Hardness at my tap 11.8 (I am on city water and the people that tested the water didn't say anything other than the hardness)

Link to my water quality report ( http://www.cudrc.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/2013-Water-Quality-Report.pdf )

Water usage

I have a family of four(a fifth on the way) with three bathrooms and a two story house. Our average daily water usage from my water bill is 150gpd I have a large garden tub and my current flow rate is around 5gpm (My plumber told me this would improve once we addressed the issue with my main line and my piping) I am anticipating a flow rate of 10 to 15 gpm one I have addressed the issues

I have read many of the comments and looked on line and this is what I have come up with.

Daily Grain 1800

Grain Capacity 14400

With 15% reserve 16600 Grain Capacity

With the above numbers I would assume I need a.75 cuft unit but if I am looking for the higher SFR I am thinking that I need a 1.5 cuft unit

Can I get the larger unit and just program the value to lower grains? I don't want to oversize the unit and create a channeling problem. In addition I was going to put on a carbon pre-filter (probably a big blue 20 or similar) to protect the resin from the chlorine in my water which can run as high as 3mg/l is this a good idea or should I scrap it?

Thanks for all your help and let me know if I left anything out

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Comments (3)

User
9 years ago
For your potential flow, definitely go with the 1.5 CF softener. That way, as your children grow and turn into teenagers that use a lot more water, your softener will still be large enough.

It is absolutely possible to program the softener to be efficient even when it is oversized. However, it is necessary to know TDS and pH. It is likely your water treatment plant routinely performs the analysis even though it is not reported on the water report. Call and ask. Otherwise, test stips will be fine for these. Do you have any particulates in your water?

Carbon filtration: You may certainly install some carbon filtration if you wish, but it is not strictly necessary. If you order specify 10% crosslinked resin in your softener it will be able to withstand the chlorine. If you do decide to install carbon filtration, a backwashing filter is better. If you prefer cartidges, install two in parallel so one may be block out to change the cartridge without disrupting water flow to your home. Make sure you install 4" NOT 2" housings to maintain flow.
swc3086
Original Author
9 years ago
I did a ph and TDS test from the tap ph is at 7.4 and TDS is ~200 ppm (test strip has 200 and 250 the color is closer to the 200 ppm) I do not have any particulates in the water, however sometimes the water can be cloudy. What else might you need to know
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Suzi - You are confusing salt with sodium. A gray water system would use the regen water (which DOES contain salt in high concentrations) for your plants and certainly that would damage them. Softened water contains slightly elevated sodium (about 1/3 of what is in milk for comparison, which is only a problem if you have been placed on a severely sodium-restricted diet by a physician). Additionally, using KCl rather than NaCl is possible with ANY softener with a simple programming adjustment - no specialized equipment required. Don't "imagine" and spread misinformation. Know the facts. jwith - Your calculations are off. I suspect it is because you are assuming around 32000 grain capacity for one cubic ft of resin, which is only true when it is new. Once in operation, capacity is determined by salt dosage. Since you have iron and manganese, you will need to regen at 8 lb salt/cf resin, which will give you 24000 grains capacity per cf resin. Additionally, when you have iron/manganese time is your enemy. To prevent fouling, the softener should be regenerated every four days. Given than, the difference inn salt usage between a 1.0 cf softener and a 1.5 cf softener will be 30 lb/month, 360 lb/yr. If you are don't expect 10 gpm usage to be frequent and sustained (and that amount of flow in a 2-person household would be unusual), I would go with the smaller softener. The problem with iron-laden water in a softener is that softener resin has a great affinity for iron and does not release it easily. Iron will slowly foul the softener resin from the inside out. Consequently, future-proofing for 15-20 years may not be a reasonable expectation. With with right precautions, 10 years can be achieved. Extra measures need to be taken to remove the iron. For this you have several options. The easiest option may be to simply use Iron-Remover salt. Alternatively, you can use Super Iron Out. You may choose to layer this in with your salt. If you choose this option, use 1/4 C per 40 lb bag of salt. Super Iron Out is more effective if used monthly with the following procedure: A liquid iron removal system such as Res Up can be installed in your brine tank to feed citric acid to the brine to aid with iron removal. My preferred methods are 1 or 4 because they employ citric acid, which is a much safer chemical than those in Super Iron Out (sodium hydrosulfite and sodium metabisulfite). The choice is yours - pick a method and follow it religiously and your softener will give you many years of reliable service.
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Virgin resin does not need to be regenerated to put it into service. New resin is good to go right out of the bag. There will be some water left in the brine tank even after BD (brine draw) cause the pickup is slightly above the bottom of the tank. Here's how the Fleck 7000 works... the last step in regeneration is BF (brine fill). The amount of water put in the brine tank is calculated to dissolve the amount of salt we determine. For you it's 20 lbs so 20/3 (gallon of water dissolves 3 lbs of salt)= 6.7 or 7 rounded off. You have a BLFC (brine line flow control) that is .125 gpm so 7/.125=56 minutes, the BF setting. I told you 54 but you can use 56. During BD (brine draw) the control valve sucks the brine from the brine tank into the resin tank. All the brine the pickup can get will be sucked into the resin long before the 60 minute BD is up. That's what the air check is for... so there's no air being sucked into the resin. After the first regeneration the correct (amount we calculated) amount of water returned to the brine tank. The control valve knows, if it's set up correctly, so trust it. The Fleck 2310 safety float only comes into play if the control valve goes haywire and water is continuously sent to the brine tank. Even in the worst scenario if the control valve goes nuts and the safety float doesn't work there's an overflow gravity drain fitting on the back of the brine tank that should be plumbed to a drain. In an industry standard softener (like yours) the float does not set the correct amount of water to make the correct amount of brine. Kinetico uses the float to set the brine level and the brine line is always under line pressure. I'd never buy a Kinetico because of that design choice.
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In order to size a softener correctly we need to know the water conditions at the house after the water has travel who knows how many miles through who knows the condition of the supply pipes. IMO water authority reports that are usually years old and sampled at the treatment plant are not the smartest choice. That said, you've provided almost all the other info necessary with the exception of the SFR of the plumbing and the diameter of the water service pipe at the installation point. The Hellenbrand Promate 6.0 DMT is not a bad softener but I avoid softeners that mix media and the Vortech distributor device they tout is new and does not have long term proven reliability or any benefit in the field. The industry standard distributor tube with top and bottom baskets has been around for decades with no problems. You can get an industry standard softener assembled with proven first rate components for a lot less money. So, here's water softener 101... Get a water test from a certified independent lab. A certified independent lab has no agenda and won't be trying to sell you water treatment equipment. This is a MUST DO because without it everything is a guess. A quickie water test from a water softener company won't be as accurate (and possibly not as competent) as from a certified independent lab. If you're on a water system the water utility can supply you with the specs of the water AS IT LEAVES their facility but that is not necessarily representative of the water conditions at your water meter after traveling through miles and miles of pipe and valves. Hit the Yellow Pages and call at least three local water treatment pros. Make sure you call at least one of the big dogs like Kinetico or Culligan for comparison and at least a couple independent pros who will be listed but without a national brand name affiliation. DON'T TELL THEM YOU HAD YOUR WATER TESTED. Give each an opportunity to offer suggestions and provide you with a quote to meet your water treatment needs. IGNORE ANY THAT DON'T TEST YOUR WATER THEMSELVES as they can't speak intelligently to water treatment without knowing what needs to be treated. Ask lots of questions. Softening the entire house or just the water heater? Warranty... parts & labor or just parts, how long and on exactly what? Install... permits required, licensed plumber? Routine maintenance and costs? Do they stock parts? Response time for emergency (water leak) calls? If they don't explain things to your satisfaction that is a good indicator of how you'll be treated after the sale. After they've gone use your water test to compare with theirs. Are all your treatment needs being addressed? Ask your neighbors if they have any water treatment experience. They might tell you who's good or who to avoid. Come back here and post the specific recommendations and hardware components with the costs and we'll give you our opinions. If you're a DIYer then you have other options but remember, when you do it yourself there's no one else to blame.
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Hi everyone, I'm hoping there are a few experts left on this board. I know it's a question that's been asked frequently, but I'm trying to find the right water softener for my parents. They recently purchased a new house, 4800 sq ft, 5 bathrooms, but they'll be the only people living there. Should I purchase a twin tank or a larger tank for when the rest of the family visit? (12 total) We all live locally, so we'd never sleep there, but their grandchildren might once in awhile. pH: 7 total alkalinity: 240 PPM total hardness: 25 gpg / 425 PPM no Iron no nitrate/nitrite no chlorine .1 copper I originally had thought of purchasing the fleck sxt 7000 64,000 grain because the water is pretty hard, but would that be overkill? Thanks in advance
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User
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
You need a 1.5 cubic ft softener. It will regen weekly once you have five in your home, and every 9-10 day with four.

Call local water treatment reps and see what they can offer you. You may wish to order online, but realize this will mean you will be on your own if anything goes wrong. In any case, you want to ensure you receive a softener with the correct specifications.

The following requirements are for
an industry standard softener. If you
are looking for a non-electronic softener, Kinetico offers the more reliable
options at a premium price (and you would need to deal with a local Kinetico
rep). Any decent softener vendor should
be able to provide the following:
1. High quality American or German made resin. This will provide a tight size distribution
  for optimal flow within the resin, longer resin life, and more reliable,
  predicable water softening.
2. Since you have CITY WATER: 10% crosslinked resin. The oxidizers that city water treatment
  plants use, such as chlorine or chloramine, are harmful to softener resins. Higher crosslinking will resist chemical
  attack longer.
3. Top basket.
  This serves two purposes. It sets
  up a proper water distribution during normal operation and prevents resin loss
  during backwash.
4. Gravel underbed.
  The gravel underbed is there to set up proper flow patterns, improve
  backwash, keep the bottom basket in place, prevent basket failure, and prevent channeling. Many softener sales companies like to leave
  this out or sell softeners with a vortex system instead. Vortex systems weigh less than gravel so they
  cost less to ship. In addition, they are
  a more expensive item that adds profit for the softener salesperson, but
  provides no additional benefit to the homeowner . It simply adds another piece of equipment
  that can break.
5. Fleck or Clack valves. These set the industry standard. Be aware that you will not be able to
  purchase Clack valves online. This is
  not a problem if you purchase locally.
6. The valve should regen based on water usage, not
  time.
7. Install the softener with a three-valve
  bypass. This will make it much easier if
  you ever need to remove the softener for repairs or wish to take it with you
  when you move. Use full-port,
  quarter-turn valves.
8. Noryl bypass.
  Most softeners are available with either Noryl or stainless bypass
  valves. Both are good valves, but the
  noryl tends to be more reliable when not used for long periods of time. This is a redundancy if you install with a
  proper three-valve bypass. I prefer a
  bit of redundancy but it is your call.
9. Brine tank:
  Although either round or square will work, round brine tanks are more
  structurally sound and will not deform like a square tank will. Additionally, if you need a softener 1.5 cuft
  or larger, a square tank will most likely be too small.
10. If you live in a cold climate, ensure equipment
  is stored in a climate-controlled environment.
  Frozen softener resin is damaged softener resin.
11. Purchase a Hach 5-B test kit. You will want to periodically check to
  ensure your softener is working correctly and this kit is your best option.

Water softener sizing

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swc3086
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swc3086
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