New addition/kitchen renovation

9 years ago

I've just finished the footprint plans for our addition and renovation. We live in a 1959 split level brick ranch. The main level is the foyer/kitchen/dining/living room. We are going to knock out the back wall (along existing kitchen and dining) and the wall between the kitchen and dining and add 8 ft along the back. We will add another 5 feet or so to the side to add a powder room and mud room area and then a screen porch off to the side.
While our structural engineer is doing his thing, I'm going to keep moving ahead with the interior layout.
Here's where I am -
Large bank of windows bumped out. All base cabinets along exterior wall except maybe a dish hutch after the last window (near probably location of dw).
I'm showing a center island. I want two ovens, but after reading all of the issues with double ovens, I'm thinking of a cook top with a separate oven underneath (I want it to be built in) and then one to the side.
The only upper cabinets I'm imagining would be on either side of the hood before the bump out. There would be pantry storage on other side of oven and then another small pull out pantry next to the refrigerator.

I'm wondering if my clearances are enough.
Or if there are any more interesting/better layouts. I've played around with several versions. There are so many experts here, I thought I would let you guys chime in on this.

Here is the proposed plan so far:

This post was edited by RaleighSharon on Sun, Dec 7, 14 at 13:57

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Comments (8)

raleighsharon
Original Author
9 years ago
Here is the existing plan (demo).
raleighsharon
Original Author
9 years ago
I forgot to note that the area outside of the kitchen will be dining and a small sitting/keeping area.
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My suggestion is that you combine the living room and dining room functions, but keep the kichen separate. Don't get yourself wrapped up in trying to replicate all the features of much-larger spaces. A dining room table can be easily intergrated into a living room and do double duty there as long as you don't try to copy the big table with chairs all around it plus sideboard. Think of a table (with leaves) that generally sits behind a sofa, for instance. Some times it's a sofa table, some times it's a dining table. The chairs need not stand around it all day long. They can be spread around the room, or even in different rooms if you don't use all of them for every day meals. The sideboard function can be handled by a cupboard, or a hutch, with some books as well as linens, serving pieces, and other DR accoutremnts. Bookshelves that are wonderful in a livng room are also fab for the walls of the DR space. You may be able to get a few seating postions (one or two) at a small island in the kitchen for those times when you have a kitchen companion hanging out with you, or when you're just grabbing a quick snack. I would concentrate on making the kitchen the most efficient and highly functional that your space allows. Since this is working area, function will really make or break the space. Think of your downstairs as having two rooms: a sitting room with the dining table in it AND a well-designed kitchen with a great place for another person to hang out with the cook. "Opening up" the rooms is a currently a popular trend, but its pouplarlity will wane (like all highly sought after and endlessly copied things). Meanwhile if you have made major structural changes in your building you will be stuck with them. Save yourself angst and money and make two great rooms -- you'll be way ahead of the style curve and you'll have two wonderful rooms that really work. Don't worry about "sliders here" or "sliders there" question at this point - think of the rooms' uses and work on those questions first. Once you have that worked out you can see how to integrate the fenestration pattern with what you already have. I think part of the current urge to open up the kitchen to the other rooms is because of the enormous size of most houses. In smaller houses there isn't as much os sense of estrangement between the people sitting in one room and those in another. Don't think you have to copy the "remedy" for the faults of houses that aren't like yours simply because that's all you see in shelter mags. Small houses are special, not the least because they are very human scaled and require you to think very carefully about your space and the choices of how you use it. I suppose you are familiar with the work of Susan Susanka of the Not So Big House fame. If not highly recommend getting her books from your library. She is a master of wonderful, small space planning. Above all else, don;t think you have to rush into a renovation. The most successful ones are those which start with a period of living n the house to see how it feels. This is the standard advice for new owners of old houses, but even less-than-antique houses have much to teach you about how they feel that you can't tell just by walking around in it a few times. Live there for 6 months ot a year -then you'll know what needs to be done and you'll have fewer regreats about your choices. HTH L.
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I actually love what you've planned. But I'm definitely biased because it's close to my personal ideal kitchen layout based on the way I cook. I'm just drooling over what you have there! Our current kitchen has a similar island layout but completely dysfunctional builder layout where the fridge and range locations are opposite of what you have on your new design. Brutal layout, and we're now in process of planning new side runs that will hopefully end up similar to yours above (though without all the great windows in your plan). My main comments are: 1) Not sure if you'd even need the prep sink in your layout. Take this comment with a grain of salt however since I didn't see your original design or description of how you function in the kitchen. If you're a two-cook family or will have someone cleaning at the same time you are prepping, then yes it makes sense. But if you are the chief cook and bottle washer, then having the prep and cleanup area merged would be preferable in my opinion since you'd have that whole long run of island for prep with just a half-turn to the range. So if you're a one-cook kitchen I'd omit the prep sink altogether and use that cabinet space for dish storage (and you could put a small sink in the pantry for beverage/coffee center usage to keep family out of your path if you wanted). If you're a two-cook family I'd move the prep sink to the other side of the range, and you'll probably end up finding the island would be your primary prep area anyway with the "prep sink" used for overflow. 2) I'd keep the pantry where it is. No biggie losing ~5 feet of window that looks at an ugly hot tub and would only lighten a few feet in front of a load bearing dining room wall. You have close to 20 feet of window in your kitchen plan which I think will look stunning. 3) Perhaps consider shortening the pantry to the 4'2" x 9" area behind the fridge, if you were just going to end up filling it with some appliances anyhow. Then you have some potentially more interesting choices. You could put an extra wall oven/micro on the back wall just before the pantry would start (across from the side wall where you show the fridge now). Or you could do a double wall oven there, changing your planned range to a cooktop with pot drawers underneath and thus gaining more drawer space in the kitchen for dishes. Or you could do wall ovens where you currently show the fridge, and perhaps fit a larger 42" fridge on that back wall. 4) Do you know what counters you're getting yet? If quartz, then check the slab sizes and you might want to adjust your island plans accordingly to avoid seams. We wanted a huge island as well but we also wanted a particular caesarstone surface that came in a max slab size of 120 x 56 inches. So we adjusted our cabinets accordingly to make it a 9'9" length and 24"+12" depth plus pillars and seating area for a total finished island size of 10 x 4.5 feet, in order to get it in one seamless slab. So if you haven't already thought about it, you might want to check the slab sizes of whatever surface you're looking at and plan the island accordingly. Good luck! I think your kitchen will be amazing!
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I like it. I think you're going to have good storage and a nice work flow. Definitely use boxes or furniture or something to simulate the island and do some play cooking to determine how wide you like your aisles to be. Some of us like a bit wider than the recommended 48", some less. I thought I was going for 54" but I recently decided to widen mine to 62". Some people might consider that too wide but I really like it. When facing the range, how long are the counters on the left and right sides? I ask because you may have room for a prep sink to the right of the range. That would make your kitchen even more efficient with all clean-up on island and all prep/cook on perimeter. Of course, the island could also be used for secondary prep, if needed. What is #6? It looks like an appliance of some kind? I would put the DW in #14 with the most used dishes and utensils in #21. This is especially important if you don't go with a prep sink on the perimeter. This way someone can prep on the closest path from refrigerator to stove without crossing over the clean-up person. And this also leaves your dishes closest to the dining area to make setting the table easier and the person doing that needn't enter the prep/cook zone. Make sure you do a deep enough overhang for seating. Here are the recommendations. Some folks here like the overhang a bit deeper than these so you might also want to mock up something to see what works best for you. Definitely don't go shallower. And the items stored under really do need to be items not needed often like, maybe, seasonal dishes and serving pieces because you would get tired of crawling under there to get things very often. I would use pull-out shelves so you can at least bring things closer to grab.
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First, I would reduce the width of the island, especially if it is moved out another six inches to provide a 48" work aisle. You need at least 36" of walkway on each side, between the back corners of the island and the walls framing the FR. Second, add a pull-out cabinet between the fridge and stub wall, to make sure the left side fridge door will open fully. Then, if you move the range toward the window, on the left you can add a glass front cabinet the same width as the window, and have symmetry. On the other side of the window, widen the uppers to the width of the fridge, and reduce the width of the tall cab. Center the island sink on the range, with both DWs to the left (as you face the island), where it will be easy to unload them to the perimeter cabinets. Put the trash pull-out to the right, in the primary prep space, with a MW drawer on the end near the fridge, since most MW'd items come from the fridge. MW could open to the side, to keep anyone using it out of the primary prep space. Many don't like a sink back-to-back with the range, but the most time is spent prepping to either side of a sink, and a 48" aisle is sufficient if two people are working at the same time. I'd omit the peninsula between the kitchen and breakfast nook, unless you feel you absolutely need it for serving or storage. The UC fridge can go in the corner, with coffee pot on counter above.
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dccurlygirl
9 years ago
RS, I am in very much the same boat --- 4 level split, all brick, LR,DR,K and hall on main level. For many years, I tried to imagine a plan that would repurpose the rooms so that I wouldn't have to do an addition. I've finally taken the plunge and am pushing out the back (only), just shy of 8'.

As for any layout advice, my plans are for the K to be open to a casual LR and a separate DR. So, my DR will move to the front room (currently LR) and once the back wall comes down and space is added on, I will have the K and LR as one large-ish room. In the kitchen, I desire table space, so I'm adding a window seat along a portion of the back wall, followed by french doors that will lead out to a deck. (I'm envious of your plans for a screened porch!)

I will be watching this thread with interest and excitement, as I move forward with my remodel. Good luck!!
Robin Morris
9 years ago
Since no one has given you any feedback yet, I'll take a shot...

So you have what people call a barrier island. That means for the normal kitchen workflow you would have to walk around your island.
If you read this thread, you will see the main problem with your workflow:
http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg111625296905.html
(Maybe this thread should be made sticky?)

To fix your workflow, you could either move your fridge to the wall with your sink or add a prep sink on your island.

Also, through what door do you bring in your groceries? The small door in the kitchen to the foyer seems like it will encourage a traffic pattern through your kitchen. Having more counters/pantry there may be better.

Regarding the powder room... having the guests go through the mudroom to the power room seems awkward and inconvenient. Could you have it open on the other side into the living room (I think that is the living room)? Also, you only need 2 more feet for a full bath. It seems like you have plenty of room to add a full bath if that is something that would be of value to you (it does help resale).

Hopefully some others will chime in and help you out with this one.
raleighsharon
Original Author
9 years ago
Thanks Robin -
I am planning a prep sink in the island (if we go with that layout). I agree about the small entry off the foyer, but the front door is the door we use the most (closest to driveway and our primary alarm is set for that one). The back door is from a fenced backyard.
I had thought about closing it, but don't think it will be practical. I tried to keep the work zones in mind while at the same time keeping the exterior wall as open as possible. The ceiling will bump up past the new beam (in alignment with the bumpout). I may do some research to see if there are any cool/modern half doors/gates - or even hidden doors. But that may be getting a little too crazy.
ControlfreakECS
9 years ago
When we did a major first floor remodel with addition, we ended up moving the kitchen to the former dining space in order to solve the exact problem of walking straight from entry into kitchen.

Also, just like you, we added a mud room space between the new kitchen/dining and garage. I actually am happy that we come from mud room into kitchen rather than dining, and ended up adding a walk-in pantry to the mudroom. You are doing so much anyway, you may want to consider it. We ended up being able to create a much more functional kitchen space and we couldn't be happier with our decision.

As much as I am function over form, possibly the best part is that now when we enter our home, we have a wonderful view out the back windows into our yard rather than the kitchen. I hated walking into the house and immediately seeing the kitchen sink.
practigal
9 years ago
Sorry, but I just don't understand the new plan. What are the spaces around it? I am not sure on which side the "front" is. It looks like you are getting rid of both the dining room and the living room entirely or are you only showing the portion of the new plan that is the kitchen area?
sena01
9 years ago
I'd move the fridge to the cooktop wall and add a prep sink on the island. Moving the fridge to end of the main sink counter can be another alternative, but I think fridge and cooktop would be too far from each other in such a layout.

Can you turn the coat(?) closet 90 degrees and move it to the other side of the kitchen entry, as much to the left as possible? You can then enlarge the kitchen doorway and maybe move a little to the right, so aisle b/w the cooktop wall and the island wouldn't be right across the entry. That may encourage people to use the back of the island, instead of going through your prep/cooking zone. In case you need additional storage, I think you can add shallow pantry cabs on the DR side of the entry.

For mudroom+bath area, moving the porch(?) door and DR entry closer to the bath may be better. If you can't move the porch door, then maybe you can add another entry to DR closer to the bath.

For the aisles, if they are from edge to edge of counters or handle of appliances, the aisle b/w the main sink and the island seems fine to me. I would consider a larger one b/w the bottom wall and the island, and 42-48" for the cooktop-island one.

New addition/kitchen renovation

Comments (8)

raleighsharon
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raleighsharon
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New addition/kitchen renovation

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raleighsharonOriginal Author

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Robin Morris

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raleighsharon
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