You can get car insurance in 10 minutes over the phone, so there's no reason to give him any "grase period."

Call him TODAY and tell him you forgot to take the car off you insurance and you are cleaning up the policies for the New year. Tell him he has to insure the car in his name immediately because if it's not at your house and under your control you don't want to be responsible for what happens to it.

One thing you can do is have him specifically, by name, excluded from your policies. Call your agent NOW and get it done.

Perhaps a middle ground would be for you to get him off your policy immediately but to split the cost with your sister for a month's policy in his name. After that it's up to him whether he maintains it or not. I'm not saying you owe him this at all, just that your sister and husband might like this option better than cutting him off today.

Let me see if I get this: You're afraid of getting sued if your alcoholic brother drives your father's car because the car is on your insurance policy, right? I'm surprised that you're even able to get insurance on a car that's not titled in your name, but I'm not familiar with that situation. I'm also not sure why you think you have liability in this situation - or perhaps you're trying to protect your father's assets.

In any event, shouldn't you be worrying about the possibility of him DUI, regardless of any liability questions? Your first priority should be getting him into AA or similar. Or maybe it should be getting rid of the car; does he need it for his new job?

Agree. No reason to carry him for 10 minutes. You should never have given him the keys in the first place, while you had it insured. It is possible your insurance would not cover the car with him driving it. Your dad's ability to pay for his care is what is in the balance here.

If your dad isn't on Medicaid and is private paying his care and has assets, I'd be more worried about him as the owner of the car not having insurance to cover HIS liability. If he's never going to drive again, why not have him sell/give the car (even for $1) to your brother, so that no one else but your brother is liable for his own actions - drinking, driving, and insurance included.

You may or may not have liability, but you have the insurance policy that would be attached in a lawsuit and I would think that would be a big mess that could affect your ability to get insurance in the future.

eta: If he's on Medicaid or will be in the future, giving away or selling his car for less than market value will affect his benefits.

This post was edited by olychick on Mon, Dec 29, 14 at 13:08

Let me get this straight - it's your Dad's car, it's on your insurance policy and your brother is the driver. That's a real mess and you need to get the car off your policy and inform your brother immediately. If he's drinking again then you, your DH, your sister and your father are enabling him. Is there any way to get the keys from him?

Insurance laws can vary by state but it's possible that both you and your Father could dragged into a lawsuit. And even if the end result is that you're not liable you'd still be out attorney fees to defend yourself - after all when someone sues they go after who has the money.

Regardless of who owns the car or who is paying for insurance, you need to put an ignition interlock system on it if he is going to be driving.

Here is a link that might be useful: Ignition interlock system

"In any event, shouldn't you be worrying about the possibility of him DUI, regardless of any liability questions? Your first priority should be getting him into AA or similar"

No. The first priority is getting the insurance out of Magdalena's account of course. Nobody can force an alcoholic into AA, rehab or indeed any type of treatment--they can be forced to *go* but sobriety is completely an individual effort.

Also, please let's not blame the victim here! Magdalena did what she thought was the right and best decision given the knowledge she had at the time. No need to pile on her with why-did-you and you-should-never etc.

As others have said, a quick phone call to the insurance company will get him removed from the policy and that's the most critically important thing to do right now. Maybe it is possible for him to get the insurance transferred over into his name but you should make it clear he needs to be *off* your account immediately. I do think it is very worrisome that the car is still titled in dad's name because in the case of a drunk driving accident a lawyer could certainly come after those assets. But that is probably more complicated because either the car will need to be repossessed or brother will need to agree to transfer title and once an alcoholic is actively drinking, logical and cooperative thought processes are often lost pretty quickly.

When all is said and done, nobody can make an alcoholic be sober. What can be done is to not get sucked into disastrous consequences of an alcoholic's disease and this is certainly one of those.

I'm so sorry your brother has relapsed. Holidays are often very fraught for addicts and alcoholics.

Ann

lazygardens - Thank you, great advice.

I sent him a text pretty much saying what you said about "cleaning up for the new year." However, I gave him until the 1st. He texted me back and said I'm an "F-ing B." I texted back and said the car is uninsured as of this moment and he better stop driving the car or get his own insurance. So, that settled that.

Bestyears - Thank you, also great advice but I guess we are beyond that now.

GaryFx - Not only are you not familiar with car insurance but you are clueless about alcoholism as well. I have financially provided for rehab for my brother twice, I paid for medical treatment, I've begged and pleaded with him for over 10 years to stop his self-destructive behavior. So you tell me exactly how I make a 50 year old man go to AA. I'm listening . . .

Arc - "You should never have given him the keys in the first place, while you had it insured." You think? This wouldn't be happening right now otherwise. I've been beating myself up all morning for being so stupid.

Olychick - Thank you. Dad is on Medicaid and veteran benefits - he has no assets. Well, except for a car worth about $3k. Dad will never drive again and he can't communicate anymore. I have no control over making decisions for him.

Maire_cate - "If he's drinking again then you, your DH, your sister and your father are enabling him. Is there any way to get the keys from him?" Please see my response to GaryFx

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

(((magdalenalee)))

Stand behind what you said. It's not easy being a "B" (which you AREN'T). It's called tough love, and you did the right thing. Don't worry one bit. It was the right to do.

Graywings - Good suggestion but the car isn't mine and not in my possession so I can't see how I would be able to do that.

Runninginplace - Thank you so much for your kindness. You absolutely broke me. I haven't cried yet and now I can't stop. I needed to get it out at some point, so again, thank you for the bottom of my heart.

I'd say that him calling you an Fing B is your answer to whether he's drinking! OH YEAH!

Magdalena- I apologize if my comment struck a nerve because I certainly didn't intend to do so. We had a situation somewhat like yours in our family. This wasn't a case of drinking - but of a beloved father who refused to give up his car keys when I felt he was no longer capable of driving. My brother was the softy who gave in repeatedly but he lived out of state and was able to ignore it. Dad lived with me and I was a nervous wreck whenever he took the car. I felt responsible and like you I imagined all sorts of possible accidents. We even called our attorney because I was concerned about our liability.

But whenever I broached the topic to Dad he always said he was fine and then my brother would vouch for him. I was fortunate because one day he did hit a parked car - no one was injured - but he came home and handed me the keys.

It's a difficult situation and again I apologize.

Well you made the call, now see if you can relax a little - easier said than done, I know. You did the best you could do under the circumstances. It's never easy and it sounds like you've been dealing with this a long time.

I'm sorry you're having to deal with this. I'm glad you have canceled the insurance. Now the car needs to be taken out of your father's name since he could loose whatever he has if your brother is in an accident.

I've had to deal with issues in my immediate family, so first hand knowledge. It's hard to be a B sometimes to those we love and care about. But at some point we have to stop trying to help them for our own sanity. You can talk until you're blue in the face and spend every last penny trying to help, but unless he wants to help himself, it's pointless. Tough love is tough. ((hugs))

Magdalena, you have already done the most important thing in getting the car off your insurance.

Your father had previously given permission for your brother to use the car, but if he can't communicate now, is he competent to continue permission, or is another family member now his POA for financial affairs?

You absolutely do not have to take any kind of responsibility, any more, for this situation.

But, If you are so inclined, you (if you are POA) can revoke permission for him to use the car, demand it back, and file a theft report if it is not returned. Once the police have confiscated the car, he is off the road. That would be a drastic measure that would likely cost him his new job -- and one that you might want to take only if drastic measures are needed -- in which case he likely will already have lost the job.

Good luck to you. You are not alone, you know.

Sorry you find yourself I. This situation but you did the exact right thng when he replied on that text. Save it just incase

Does your father have a conservator that can donate that car to a veterans goup? Or have it towed and sold?

Rob333 - Thanks for the hugs and kind words.

Arkansas_girl - Yeah, he can get pretty aggressive/nasty when drinking. "Drunk Brother" and "Sober Brother" are two different people.

Maire_cate - It's fine, I didn't mean to get testy because I understand how frustrating the whole situation sounds(is).

Quilly - Thanks, I felt some relief after clicking the submit button on the insurance website. Yes, my brother has been an alcoholic his entire adult life. He's burned through every family member willing to give him help. I'm pretty sure he's at the end of the line.

Allison0704 - Thanks. Dad has nothing to loose so that's not really a problem. My step dad is a recovered alcoholic (over 30 years) and DH is too (almost 20 years) so I'm no stranger to it's awfulness, however I'm still always surprised by how horrible it is. ((hugs back to you))

Raee & Kippy-the-Hippy - I nor anyone in my family has POA. Some lawyer has it. It's kind of a complicated situation. Dad is mentally ill and he was abusive, so we never had a very good relationship with him. He has severe paranoia and would give/take away POA from me over and over again until I told him I didn't want it anymore. I was trying to help him get his veteran's benefits when I said enough.

So dad contacted a lawyer who specializes in veteran benefits. The lawyer doesn't charge anything but recoups his fees when the benefits come through. When I was working on it, I found that dad had tens of thousands of dollars in benefits he was entitled to (they are retroactive).

Anyway, dad put his complete trust in this lawyer and the next thing I know, dad's house and all of his belongings are sold, he's in a nursing home and I have no access to him. I have no idea if his benefits came through or not. Due to not really having a relationship with him and truthfully, not caring, I never followed up with the situation. I don't even know if the lawyer knows about the car, I've just assumed he did.

No advice and no opinions to offer, Magdalena (surely a first for me, lol!) just a hug and hope for a better 2015.

I'm glad you canceled the insurance on the car, you're hands are clean of that problem. If your dad is unmarried, if he's on Medicaid, he'd be 'judgement proof' meaning he has no assets that could be attached in a lawsuit. But if he got a big VA settlement, equity from the home sale, etc. is it possible he's not on Medicaid, but you're thinking Medicare? Medicare doesn't pay for NH care except for short rehab; Medicaid is for people who have no other funds to pay for NH care.

Either way, it is not your problem, but whoever the POA is for him should be advised so that they can protect your dad's assets should he actually have any (like by getting the car back).

Hugs to you MagdalenaLee. Good decision about the insurance-nothing like an abusive response when you are trying to be kind to help you make up your mind! My DH is in recovery, so I understand. Sometimes, it is just best to remove yourself from those toxic relationships. It is hard, especially when your hope has been built up by a period of sobriety.

I hope your new year is calm and better than these past days have been.

Best wishes to you, MagdalenaLee.
Your brother sounds like my brother.
Been there.
Tough situation, but only he can change it.
Maybe your brother will.
Sadly, mine never did.

MagdalenaLee, thoughts are with you.
Although everyone wishes for a perfectly packaged life, everyone has a behind-the-scenes story that could be told about family. We can only accept and move on. You're handling things as best as you can at various times. Wishing you well.

(((Hugs))) Magdalena. You sound like a wonderful, caring woman. Your brother's bad behavior towards you made the difficult decision easy.

All my best wishes for a wonderful year.

Thank you everyone for your good thoughts and hugs.

My brother called last night. He was very apologetic and said he understood and did get his own insurance.

He also said that, yes he was drinking. He met a woman and didn't want to tell her he couldn't drink so they went out and he got really drunk and ran her off. Since he's been back, he hasn't gone to any AA meetings and knows that should have been the first thing to do. He promised he would find a meeting today.

So, I'm hopeful. Cautiously hopeful.

Hugs and positive thoughts, MagdalenaLee. I know how hard it is to have a family member who is an alcoholic. I agree with Runninginplace, it is not your responsibility to "get your brother to AA."

From the time my oldest son was less than 2 years old, I have seen the influence an unrelated girl of a similar age can have on behavior. Maybe his drunken behavior chasing off the very one he sought to impress can be a catalyst you or your family could not provide. I hope it will be a helpful step for him.

Perhaps you can help him by reminding him that alcoholics in recovery are not the only people who don't drink. Many people chose never to drink and others cannot drink for other medical reasons (past illnesses liver or kidney issues, medications they take), religious issues, etc. I doubt most folks would press for an explanation if he chose not to drink, but there are better ways to deal with the situation than to get drunk. He could simply say he took some allergy medication earlier and can't drink on top of that, ate something that didn't agree with him a day or two ago and is taking it easy -- nothing that commits him to a long term story. He can reveal himself if and when he's ready. He just needs to be prepared so he can handle the situation. Though I'm surprised that any treatment wouldn't include discussion about handling those situations, he obviously wasn't -- or he didn't want to believe that he needed to be. Maybe he needed some proof. Hope he see that he got it and that he's ready for it now. Cautiously hopeful for both of you.

Lascatx, the story about being led astray is just that-a story. Alcoholics are so adept at blaming any and every one else for lapses; it's part of the pathology of this disease.

And there are no guarantees that IF someone gets sober, s/he will be able to maintain it. The 'one day at a time' saying so perfectly expresses what life is like for the alcoholic or addict.

A rational non-alcoholic mind often has tremendous difficulty understanding and more importantly accepting these truths. My own path to peace is one on which I struggle to find a foothold every day with and for the alcoholic in my life.

Ann

Lascatx--

I have learned that telling the truth is a huge part of recovery for any addict.
It is ill-advised to lie, even a little white lie, and there is no need for it.
If a drink is offered, all he has to do is say, "No, thanks."
If people are ordering drinks, he can order a coke or water.
If someone asks, "Don't you drink?", he can say, "No, I don't."

He doesn't have to share anything about his alcoholism immediately, but he doesn't need to lie.

Hugs to you. You have done what you can. I hope for a better year for you and for your family. For now, you have received good advice and done what is right.