It is difficult to comment on pricing due to scope of work plus equipment all wrapped in one price.

Some general observations and comment.

You get better efficiency numbers with split systems over package units. I prefer split.

R8 duct rated insulation minimum. This small upgrade should be on the dealer's acct.

I am a little confused about the options you listed at the end of your post. Both are for upstairs system or one for downstairs, the other upstairs?

Here is a less expensive option for a 2 1/2 ton XR13 split system. You should have this priced out.

5270059 Active Systems TRANE XR13 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR3030C1 *AM7A0C36H31 1025 32200 13.00 15.50 29000 9.00 16500 1 HRCU-A-CB 258 662 Yes

2 other options for 3 ton split system for upstairs versus the pricey variable speed XV18 system. Both are 2 stage condensers with TAM7 var speed air handlers.

7039031 Active Systems TRANE XR17 TRANE 4TWR7036B1 *AM7A0C36H31 1225 980 36000 13.00 17.00 34000 9.00 21200 1 HRCU-A-CB Yes 263 772 Yes

7117217 Active Systems TRANE XL18I TRANE 4TWX8036C1 *AM7A0C42H31 1185 945 37000 13.00 18.00 31400 9.50 20200 1 HRCU-A-CB 255 627 Yes

Similar equipment available from sister company Am Standard. You should get another dealer out for a quote.

IMO

Tigerdunes, you are a remarkable resource!

I, too, prefer the split systems, but that isn't an option for the first floor unit: There is no space for an air handler inside unless I sacrifice the space for the laundry.

The equipment options listed at the end of my original post are for the upstairs unit. In terms of bang for the buck, what would I be getting with the pricey XV18 system? I only expect to be in this property for the next 2-3 years.

As for the American Standard, I did contact another company for a quote using Am Standard. I just received that proposal a few minutes ago:

New duct system upstairs attic $2750
New duct system crawlspace $3250
5" medial filter for attic system $353
Attic install $250
Optional Copper Line Set for attic system $500
UV Light System both systems $500

American Standard 15 SEER 3.5-Ton Variable Speed AH Model TAM7A0C42H31 Condenser Model 4A6H5042G1 ARI Ref#5498867 $6386

American Standard 14.2 SEER 4-Ton Heat Pump Package Unit Variable Speed Model 4TCY4048B1 ARI Ref#3544209 $6538

Warranty on systems 10 Years Parts and Compressor - 1 Year Labor.

Total Cost - $20,527.

In trying to make a decision, should I be guided by the SEER rating or the tonnage? The two companies are proposing different systems making an "apples to apples" comparison impossible.

I greatly appreciate your assistance!

SEER and tonnage are two entirely different issues.

SEER is cooling efficiency and tonnage is size/BTUs.

The question is how the 2 different systems performed as far as comfort.

Oversizing is never good and I really don't understand the sizing of both systems from the AmStd dealer. Worries me.

IMO

Have you any concerns with the sizing of the Trane units? My inclination is to go with Trane based on my prior experience with the contractor as well as the contractor's excellent reputation and A+ BBB rating. That said, is it worth the extra money for the XV18 over the XL15i for the upstairs split unit?

I did ask the AmSt contractor about the sizing of the two units. According to him, the units are not available in half ton increments, so he "went up" to the next tonnage. That struck me as a suspect response.

Again, I can't thank you enough for your advice and counsel.

I gave you two good less expensive options to the upstairs XV18 Trane system. I suggest you follow up with the Trane dealer and request quotes. See below.

7039031 Active Systems TRANE XR17 TRANE 4TWR7036B1 *AM7A0C36H31 1225 980 36000 13.00 17.00 34000 9.00 21200 1 HRCU-A-CB Yes 263 772 Yes

7117217 Active Systems TRANE XL18I TRANE 4TWX8036C1 *AM7A0C42H31 1185 945 37000 13.00 18.00 31400 9.50 20200 1 HRCU-A-CB 255 627 Yes

Again, I asked you how the two old systems performed as far as comfort in both heating and cooling mode. Based on location, cooling more important than heating. Also how about dehumidification in cooling mode in each? Have you ever thought you might be undersized?

Post back.

IMO

"American Standard 14.2 SEER 4-Ton Heat Pump Package Unit Variable Speed Model 4TCY4048B1 ARI Ref#3544209 $6538"

3544209 Active Systems AMERICAN STANDARD ALLEGIANCE 14 AMERICAN STANDARD 4TCY4048B1 1410 48500 12.00 14.20 1 SP-A 424 Yes

Not correct model for a HP, this is a straight AC package unit.

If it was me, I would try to find another AmStd dealer before pulling the trigger on the Trane.

IMO

Unfortunately, I don't know anything about how the two old systems performed, for I just acquired the property. I knew when I purchased the property that the existing units were non-functional and beyond repair and that the ductwork was likely in need of repair or replacement.

I have a call in to each of the vendors and will ask them to provide a more detailed breakdown of the costs (equipment costs, ductwork) and the basis for the recommendation as to the size of each unit. I am also going to ask about the units you suggested in your prior posts.

Was I imagining things in the wee hours of the morning as I poured over the proposals and the internet sites, or is there a disconnect between the Trane model numbers on the first estimate and the tonnage/seer specs?

I budgeted $16k to replace the units and repair the ductwork. While I have no objection to spending more if that is necessary, I don't want to make a $20k to $24k mistake - incorrectly sized units that do not provide humidity control and do not provide superior air filtration.

At this point I just want to make a good decision and move on to the next critical project - a brick facade that is pulling away from the structure.

Thanks again for your continued assistance, Tiger!

"Windows - Historic District restrictions prohibit replacement of original doors/windows"

I am not sure what the rules are in Florida. I watch a lot of This Old House projects where they are restoring a house in a historical district. On these projects exteriors usually can be modified if they look like the old structures and there is prior approval. It is expensive trying to replicate old windows and doors but it can be done.

Mike - The insurmountable obstacle with the Historical Commission here happens to be windows. Before one can replicate old windows, one has to establish that the window to be replicated is beyond repair ⦠and the Historical Commission has yet to see a window that in its collective wisdom (note, I did not use the term "expertise") is beyond repair. I have 61 windows, all original to 1926 and all still in good working order. Replacement is not an option.

Since you have no personal history on these existing systems, you should definitely insist on a written load calculation contingent on dealer earning your business.

IMO

Excellent advice! Interestingly, the Trane dealer readily agreed to provide the written load calculation supporting his recommendations, but the AmSt dealer balked. Actions do oftentimes speak louder than words. This strikes me as one of those times.

As far as new ductwork, if not individual room returns, then at least 3 central returns for each zone strategically located and correctly sized for good air flow and comfort.

IMO

This post was edited by tigerdunes on Fri, Dec 5, 14 at 13:19

Mike-- maybe I've missed This Old House episodes showing restorations,but most are remodels -- and more often remuddles. Original windows are usually the most important element in preserving the integrity of a historic structure. I'm not questioning the accuracy of your statement, just surprised. And I didn't mean to high jack the thread, but felt compelled to comment since I've had a lot of experience in the preservation field.

Mike-- maybe I've missed This Old House episodes showing restorations,but most are remodels -- and more often remuddles. Original windows are usually the most important element in preserving the integrity of a historic structure. I'm not questioning the accuracy of your statement, just surprised. And I didn't mean to high jack the thread, but felt compelled to comment since I've had a lot of experience in the preservation field.

I could be wrong, but I thought I watched at least one project where the local historical society had to approve some exterior work. I can't say even for those projects if replicating historical windows was involved, so you may be right.

I do remember one episode where the old windows were taken out and painstakingly rebuilt. They were probably tighter, but still a single pane of glass.

I would think you could make a reasonable copy of an old double hung window with a double pane of glass. One big problem is as the house settles the frame becomes crooked and the window can't close properly. It is probably not such a big problem in Florida, but it is for the cold winters of New England.

TigerDunes - At last, an easy issue: There are individual returns in the bedrooms (2 up, 2 down), the sunroom off the living room, and the sitting room off the MBR. Better yet, the individual returns are, according to both dealers, well-placed as are the two main returns.

It will be several weeks before the units are installed. I will report back on the system specs and performance.

After settling on the Trane units from the dealer with the stellar reputation, I am once again rethinking my decision: The dealer has rescheduled the work not once, not twice, not even thrice. The work has been rescheduled four times.

My patience with the dealer has gone south which is where I should go given the inside temperature of 44 overnight. Even Northern Florida has cold snaps!

So, my report back on the system specs and performance will have to wait a bit longer.